Any Opinions on this?

[loctite]

Never seen one of these, and i kinda like it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/SEROTTA-RAPID-TOUR-Frame-Fork-MINT-58-cm-c-c-Touring_W0QQitemZ7219573277QQcategoryZ98084QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

sorry for the double post, oops.

[dbrk]

"Rapid Tour" as a model has gone through all sorts of iterations but this one has lugs and that sets it apart (one might say above, if you share my preferences). Clearly it is built for caliper brakes and unless I have not read carefully we can only assume that that means "short reach" (i.e., the current fashion), which grants clearance for about a 27c without fenders but likely nothing more than a "wide" (read: actual) 23c with fenders. So truly it is a rapid tour one would take on this bicycle but that's fine too so long as you had a longer, wetter, more comfortable tour to go with it.

dbrk

[dirtdigger88]

I saw one just like it

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=14924

I guess I didnt realize there was an actual model- I thought is was only a geometry-

cool bike- I use to run 27c ruffy tuffys on my lemond with regular brakes- it was tight but I could-

Jason

[palincss]

I saw one just like it

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=14924

I guess I didnt realize there was an actual model- I thought is was only a geometry-

cool bike- I use to run 27c ruffy tuffys on my lemond with regular brakes- it was tight but I could-

Jason

It indeed was a model. I know a couple of people in PPTC who have them, one lugged and one TIGged. The lugged model is around 10 years old. I believe it was dropped from the line around 2 years ago, possibly 3 -- when Serotta discontinued everything that used cantilever brakes.

[93legendti]

I think Serotta's cross bikes still use cantis. I think Smiley recently indicated that any Serotta bike can be ordered with Rapid Tour geometry (including with cantis).

BTW, I do not understand why people on the road need tires wider than 25c: Michigan roads are as bad as they come; I ride a ~52cm frame (hard to be anything but stiff in that size) and have a herniated disc in my back. I fill my tires to 100 psi and my bikes ride great. IMHO it is the riders on steel who seem to need tires wider than 25c -- every steel frame (including Serotta) I have tried has been harsher riding than my Legend, Ottrott, Strong (ti), Hors and OCLV. Maybe harsher is not the ride word--the bumps seem to resonate at a different frequency which does not agree with my backside...The other thing I often wonder is whether it is the combination of a steel fame and a Brooks saddle that leads people to seek out wider tires...

To each their own!

[Bradford]

I think it is a great frame and one I'd likely bid on if it were a bit larger, but don't confuse it with a touring bike. The Rapid Tour is similar to the Co-Motion Nor'Wester or the IF Club Racer; it could handle a light load with medium tires but could not handle a full load.

A bike like this would be perfect for commuting, credit card touring, supported touring, and general errands around town. For any unsupported touring, you will need a lot more bike than that.

Nice bike, if it were just a tad larger...

[Smiley]

I think Serotta's cross bikes still use cantis. I think Smiley recently indicated that any Serotta bike can be ordered with Rapid Tour geometry (including with cantis).

BTW, I do not understand why people on the road need tires wider than 25c: Michigan roads are as bad as they come; I ride a ~52cm frame (hard to be anything but stiff in that size) and have a herniated disc in my back. I fill my tires to 100 psi and my bikes ride great. IMHO it is the riders on steel who seem to need tires wider than 25c -- every steel frame (including Serotta) I have tried has been harsher riding than my Legend, Ottrott, Strong (ti), Hors and OCLV. Maybe harsher is not the ride word--the bumps seem to resonate at a different frequency which does not agree with my backside...The other thing I often wonder is whether it is the combination of a steel fame and a Brooks saddle that leads people to seek out wider tires...

To each their own!
I can't imagine comparing any bike material to a Hors ride , having said that I feel that Steel does have SNAP that is lacking in Titanium especially in the getty up and go dept when you jump the pedals. Brooks saddle , I dunno about that one though. I am finializing my Uniscasi draft for a Steel Rapid Tour with regular calipers , BUT I could have ordered it with Canti's except my fork choice would have been un-proven so I am sticking with a F3 fork for the fun and ride quality of the fork. Smiley

[Serotta_Andrew]

I think it is a great frame and one I'd likely bid on if it were a bit larger, but don't confuse it with a touring bike. The Rapid Tour is similar to the Co-Motion Nor'Wester or the IF Club Racer; it could handle a light load with medium tires but could not handle a full load.

A bike like this would be perfect for commuting, credit card touring, supported touring, and general errands around town. For any unsupported touring, you will need a lot more bike than that.

Nice bike, if it were just a tad larger...


Actually, if you order a Rapid Tour (in both Ti or Steel) it would be a custom build, so, if you wish for a full touring rig then the Rapid Tour will be built for full around the globe tour with Canti brakes. This also means that tyre width can be any size you wish and with fenders and racks... this should make Douglas happy!! Now if one wants a credit card/weekend touring with more zip then the Rapid Tour will be built for such and maybe use long reach brakes so a 28 tyre with a fender. The options are endless with the Rapid Tour. Choose either canti or long reach or just standard road brakes.

[93legendti]

I can't imagine comparing any bike material to a Hors ride , having said that I feel that Steel does have SNAP that is lacking in Titanium especially in the getty up and go dept when you jump the pedals. Brooks saddle , I dunno about that one though. I am finializing my Uniscasi draft for a Steel Rapid Tour with regular calipers , BUT I could have ordered it with Canti's except my fork choice would have been un-proven so I am sticking with a F3 fork for the fun and ride quality of the fork. Smiley


Did the steel you rode have as much snap as a Legend or Ottrott? Yes, the Hors is different, but my 52cm Hors has a pretty stiff BB area and gives me plenty of "snap".

[Richard]

I can't comment on the Ottrot, but I have a CSI and a Legend ST and the CSI certainly feels "snappier" and, to me anyway, is more fun to ride. That is why the Legend was put up for sale a while ago. I think the difference is in feel, not in any quantitative difference in stiffness, both bikes are very stiff, but I like the lively feel of the steel bike vs. the muted feel of the Ti.

[Bradford]

Serotta Andrew knows what he is talking about when it comes to touring bikes. If he says he can build you a real touring bike, he can build you a real touring bike.

Since the one on ebay doesn't have low rider bosses, I'm guessing it is the zippy version and not a pack mule.

[93legendti]

I can't comment on the Ottrot, but I have a CSI and a Legend ST and the CSI certainly feels "snappier" and, to me anyway, is more fun to ride. That is why the Legend was put up for sale a while ago. I think the difference is in feel, not in any quantitative difference in stiffness, both bikes are very stiff, but I like the lively feel of the steel bike vs. the muted feel of the Ti.

And I prefer the get up and go of the Legend and Ottrott to a lugged steel bike and to a tig welded steel bike. We are lucky to have such choices!

[Smiley]

I quote my man Sandy , the Ottrott is a CSI on STEROIDS. And yes to me the Ottrott is the ultimate in SNAP . LegendTi , I've been riding a Kogswell G model for over 1500 miles now and my bet is I'll love the feel and snap of the Rapid Tour or Uniscasi or CDA or what ever version you want to call it. I chose steel this time around for one simple reason , Anyting in Ti would be a LET DOWN to my Hors bike ride and feel and hence not ridden with the same smile on my face. Smiley

[Eric E]

We have 2 Rapid Tour Ti bikes - ours have oversized tubing to allow them to be more stable (probably not s problem with steel...). I load mine with up to 50 lbs for light loaded touring, but it works great unloaded as well. I also use the steel fork with a campy centaur triple set-up with caliper brakes - lots of room for ruffy toughies, our favorite tire for touring. Last tour, we went 1200 mi without a flat.

My only adjustment relative to the normal Rapid Tour geometry was to change out the fork with a 55 mm rake for a fork with a shorter rake - with a 55 mm rake, the steering was too twitchy (trail about 5.6 cm) for a touring bike, IMHO.

Best, Eric

[Ken Robb]

I put a few miles on a stock lugged Rapid Tour and it felt like a slightly relaxed CSI. Definitely not truck-like and I would be happy to ride one as an only bike.

[Bradford]

I load mine with up to 50 lbs for light loaded touring

Dude, I like your style. If you consider 50 lbs light loaded touring, what do you consider heavy loaded touring?

The heaviest I've ever gone was 65 lbs, which included everything (the weight of the panniers, tools, camping stuff, food, clothes, etc). I was gone (alone) for 3 weeks with that load and wanted for nothing. When I've toured with other people, I really don't get much heavier than 45 or 50 pounds for unsupported trips with camping equipment. I can't imagine needing more than that for touring in North America.

[dbrk]

.... This also means that tyre width can be any size you wish and with fenders and racks... this should make Douglas happy!! Now if one wants a credit card/weekend touring with more zip then the Rapid Tour will be built for such and maybe use long reach brakes so a 28 tyre with a fender. The options are endless with the Rapid Tour. Choose either canti or long reach or just standard road brakes.

I have no doubt about it! Serotta has, over the years, shown an enormous versatility and understanding of different types of bikes and styles of riding. So, yes and yes. My caveat would be that if you are "fit" for a tourer, ask your fitter how much experience she or he has in designing such a bike. There are significant differences that move from the "norms" of race or recreational race bikes--- and I'd bet the farm that that is what most ask for. Are Serotta fitters trained/educated in these matters? I actually don't know that: but it's not so simple as to say that there is one fit for every style bike just like the bikes themselves will be very different depending on their use/design. It's a _whole_ process between fitter, rider, use, builder and at every point there needs to be experience and understanding. Certainly the builder, i.e., Serotta evokes confidence. Be sure all the rest does too.

dbrk

[Serotta_Andrew]

Are Serotta fitters trained/educated in these matters? .....
..... there needs to be experience and understanding.

dbrk


All Serotta trained fitters have access to Kelly and myself who has many.. many thousands of miles of touring. Oh yea i did a little tour around the globe for 2 years. So if there is a question about fitting or design around a touring/brevet/club/randoneering or a cummuter with fenders and racks, our phone and email is always available.

Cheers

[Ahneida Ride]

My Legend is a "Rapid Tour" ! ;)

[93legendti]

My Legend is a "Rapid Tour" ! ;)

A bike that is on my short list...

[csm]

I'm gonna bid on it. hopefully I won't get it! then I'll have to get some more stuff.

[IXXI]

andrew-- any pics of your bike or details about the frameset you rode on your little epic?

All Serotta trained fitters have access to Kelly and myself who has many.. many thousands of miles of touring. Oh yea i did a little tour around the globe for 2 years. So if there is a question about fitting or design around a touring/brevet/club/randoneering or a cummuter with fenders and racks, our phone and email is always available.

Cheers

[IXXI]

Never seen one of these, and i kinda like it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/SEROTTA-RAPID-TOUR-Frame-Fork-MINT-58-cm-c-c-Touring_W0QQitemZ7219573277QQcategoryZ98084QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

sorry for the double post, oops.

damn that is a fine looking frame... damn. relapse, anyone?

[loctite]

All Serotta trained fitters have access to Kelly and myself who has many.. many thousands of miles of touring. Oh yea i did a little tour around the globe for 2 years. So if there is a question about fitting or design around a touring/brevet/club/randoneering or a cummuter with fenders and racks, our phone and email is always available.

Cheers

Rock on Andrew, you da' man :beer:

[Smiley]

Now that you let the cat out of the bag mr globe trotter , why don't you share with us your trip so every one can be amazed at your journey as I was with your trip through Egypt across the Red Sea through Isreal and then all the way to the east . Also I too would like to see a photo of the rig that you traveled with in the gallery. This thread is really getting me going, thanks Andrew.

[Sandy]

It would be very interesting to hear about your adventures in long distance cycling.


Sandy

[hypnos]

Does anyone have a reference for what Rapid Tour geometry is exactly?

Jeff