Today's Giro Stage to Montecassino: Wait or Race (Spoiler Alert)

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I just finished watching today's Giro stage to Montecassino. If you haven't seen the result, stop reading.

I recall just two years ago in the Tour Cadel Evans suffered a puncture because some idiot had thrown a bunch of tacks on the road. At the time, Evans was only a short time behind Wiggins. Wiggins, who had avoided a puncture, convinced the front group to wait for Evans, his closest rival at the time. I recall many riders, including Evans' teammate George Hincapie, thanking Wiggins for his sportsmanship.

Fast forward to today. A huge crash with 10K to go, catching many, many GC contenders behind it. About 9-10 riders were in front of the crash and managed to escape it, including Cadel Evans. Instead of waiting for the riders who were caught behind the crash, Evans has a teammate push the pace to the line. As a result, Evans gets anywhere from 40 seconds to a minute and a half advantage on all his GC rivals.

Whether Evans' decision to press on is right or wrong doesn't really concern me. All I know is that Wiggins showed class in waiting for Evans and Evans showed no class in refusing to wait for the others. Evans' actions certainly did not violate any rule. But he lost a lot of respect in my book, admittedly a very subjective book.

[rustychisel]

Haven't seen it, but you might say

"that's racing"
"an idiot strewing tacks is different from a crash"

or I might say

"your opinion was already coloured" or "did anyone suggest to Cadel that he wait?"

Dunno, it's all subjective and likely to sort itself out in the course of a 3 week grand tour

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Haven't seen it, but you might say

"that's racing"
"an idiot strewing tacks is different from a crash"

or I might say

"your opinion was already coloured" or "did anyone suggest to Cadel that he wait?"

Dunno, it's all subjective and likely to sort itself out in the course of a 3 week grand tour

There is no way Evans wins this Giro. He may have taken out 40 seconds or so on Quintana, but Quintana will put 5 minutes into Evans in the first big climb. The difference is Evans could have gone out with honor. As to anyone suggesting to Cadel to wait, it seems that's a conclusion he should have reached on his own, just like Wiggo, if he was inclined to do so. And nobody could have known at the moment Cadel punctured that it was because of someone's idiotic act of throwing tacks on the road, as opposed to a random nail or metal object.

[54ny77]

he was hungry. wanted to finish and get to olive garden before the crowds.

:D

[rain dogs]

I certainly feel like there is a measure of magnitude to the race or wait debate.

I'll be honest, I'm more often than not in the "It's racing" camp. They aren't having a Tea Party out there after all. They are trying to get finished as fast as possible.

I don't blame Evans per say for pushing on, he wants to get done, he's competing. But I don't think his gains should stand.

If it's one or two guys, then the race should move on. But if more than half the field is affected, something should be done.

I think the organizers could neutralize the finish at that point and say everyone gets the same time. Individual luck should be part of the sport. A small crash, dropped chain, whatever... but total carnage/chaos is over the line. It's too much like sneaking under the train barriers at Roubaix, but only if the barriers were 10km from the line and changed the outcome.

[kramnnim]

The BMC DS supposedly said “I’ve already heard the polemics but what could we do? For starters, I couldn’t talk to them because I was on the side of the road with my riders who had fallen. They were in front, they were riding and they were up there in a favourable position. Risks are part of the race.”


...don't they have radios?

Seems like a poor excuse.

Hope the other teams get their revenge.

[GregL]

No one has mentioned that Matthews (the GC leader) was also in the front group. Evans had no choice except to stay with Matthews. Crashes are integral to racing. Smart GC riders stay near the front to avoid them if possible. Evans rode smart. If the crash that caused the split had been due to very unusual circumstances (e.g., tacks at 2012 TDF), then I could see the point of the riders self-neutralizing the race. Otherwise, it's game on.

- Greg

[kramnnim]

Evans had no choice except to stay with Matthews.
- Greg

BMC was pulling for most of it.

[johnmdesigner]

I don't think you can compare the prior incident with Wiggins to this one.
And why blame Cadel? Matthews was in pink and Orica were racing flat out. If sportsmanship were called into play then he should have sat up. Instead he went on to win the stage.
It's easy to criticize after the fact. The Giro director could have neutralized the climb but the previous stage was completely neutralized. For me it's been boring as hell so far. Do the leaders of Paris -Roubaix sit up and wait when there's carnage behind them on the cobbles?
Can the two team cars contact each other and in a few seconds come to an agreement that their leaders should sit up and wait? All this while they are caught behind the crash?
And what about the radios? If there were none those in front would not know the extent of the damage. The would race flat out.
I'm no big fan of Cuddles but I don't think this is the same as Chaingate or the tacks. Acts of sportsmanship occur when two or more great athletes are duking it out mano a mano. Not really the case here.
Those that feel slighted will have plenty of opportunities in the coming days for revenge.

[gianni]

Now it's going to be good when we get into the high mountains. Pathetic by Cadel/BMC. It's one thing to follow a current gc rider but to put a bmc rider on the front is weak.

Now, I'm thinking Olive Garden...mmm.

[Tom]

Evans was smart enough to be up front where the risk of getting hung up in a crash was less. That's racing.

At least he was smart enough to realize that a corner and then a traffic circle with a big giant island right dead in the middle of the road was a dumb place to send a bike race through. The race officials couldn't neutralize that stage because it'd be acknowledgement that a corner and then a traffic circle with a big giant island right dead in the middle of the road was a dumb place to send a bike race through. Granted, the problems started when the guys ran head on into the guard rail that was at 90 degrees to the road a little earlier but in my opinion the route was stupid. Maybe it'd have been fine if it wasn't raining but it just didn't look good from above.

[oldpotatoe]

I just finished watching today's Giro stage to Montecassino. If you haven't seen the result, stop reading.

I recall just two years ago in the Tour Cadel Evans suffered a puncture because some idiot had thrown a bunch of tacks on the road. At the time, Evans was only a short time behind Wiggins. Wiggins, who had avoided a puncture, convinced the front group to wait for Evans, his closest rival at the time. I recall many riders, including Evans' teammate George Hincapie, thanking Wiggins for his sportsmanship.

Fast forward to today. A huge crash with 10K to go, catching many, many GC contenders behind it. About 9-10 riders were in front of the crash and managed to escape it, including Cadel Evans. Instead of waiting for the riders who were caught behind the crash, Evans has a teammate push the pace to the line. As a result, Evans gets anywhere from 40 seconds to a minute and a half advantage on all his GC rivals.

Whether Evans' decision to press on is right or wrong doesn't really concern me. All I know is that Wiggins showed class in waiting for Evans and Evans showed no class in refusing to wait for the others. Evans' actions certainly did not violate any rule. But he lost a lot of respect in my book, admittedly a very subjective book.

Just talked to one of Taylor's personal team, guy I know..and he says the nickname 'cuddles' is high irony, cuz he's not...cuddly..

I'd still like to see him win..

[GregL]

Just talked to one of Taylor's personal team, guy I know..and he says the nickname 'cuddles' is high irony, cuz he's not...cuddly..

I'd still like to see him win..
Evans is paid to win bike races. He was in a good position and rode a smart race. I could be wrong, but my interpretation of the "code of honor" in pro bike racing is that crashes caused by "external" factors (e.g., tacks in 2012 TdF, Lance getting handlebar caught in spectator's bag in 2003 TdF, oil on road in stage 2 of 2010 TdF, etc...) often lead to the riders self-neutralizing the race until everything is sorted out. Crashes or delays caused by the riders themselves are usually seen as fair game to sort out the pack (e.g., Passage du Gois in 1999 TdF, Andy Schleck "chaingate" in 2010 TdF). Let's see how this all plays out in another two weeks...

- Greg

[atrexler]

Evans was smart enough to be up front where the risk of getting hung up in a crash was less. That's racing.



Totally agree with this sentiment. It's racing. BMC and Orica should be commended for having their guys up front and out of trouble. Thats why the GC guys have to ride in the front of the peloton and they have dedicated domestiques to place them there. Thats why you have domestiques ready to give their leader a bike (like Rajka got yesterday) or a wheel if something goes wrong. This has been cycling for the last 100 years. You can apply this thinking to the classics with all the jockeying to be at the front of the race in the cobbled sections and bergs. You have to be there otherwise you get caught out and your race is over. Its not like everyone slows down, queues up, and continues over the koppenberg or through the Ardennes in a nice orderly file, they wait for everyone to get through, and then its like, okay, let's race this thing.

I think in the event of something outside normal racing happening then there's a duty to wait or neutralize the race. Tacks on the road is one example. Another that I can think of is in the Tour near Bath a few years back a ton of the GC guys crashed in a little hill because there was oil on the road or something. I think this is where Vino broke his femur. Spartacus shut the business down that day because so many of the GC guys were laid out. Another example is extreme danger-- like we saw at Bari.

Crashes in roundabouts are unfortunately a normal part of racing. Good on Evans for being in the right place and his team pressing that advantage.

[GregL]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/05/giro-ditalia/wait-race-old-debate-reignited-massive-pileup-giro_328060

Every once in a while, VeloNews gets it right. Wonder if they've been lurking on the forum...?

- Greg

[bobswire]

Quite simply it was Matthews call not Evans, though in this case undue caution caused the crash, no foul no harm, IMO.

[rain dogs]

In my opinion, the important thing is consistency from the riders themselves, and the court of public opinion.

Remember, Cadel has had many harsh words when he has been on the receiving end of bad race luck. In the '09 Vuelta he was very critical of Valverde, Spain and the Spanish people when he punctured and "the race was on" 15km from the finish on the climb and the shimano neutral service couldn't get his wheel changed quickly.

He also blamed the Spanish for the tacks incident? ···? How does he know the nationality of the tack thrower?

Anyway, he's often said that the GC shouldn't be influenced by mechanicals, crashes and other "luck" events... that it should be the legs.

Then when it happens to be on his side, he says "to make rational decisions for such an unexpected situation isn’t easy,” Evans said. “Our job is to race, and to race to the finish. That’s the first thing on our mind."

Doesn't sound too consistent, especially if this 1 minute he gained has an influence on the final GC.

[bobswire]

In my opinion, the important thing is consistency from the riders themselves, and the court of public opinion.

Remember, Cadel has had many harsh words when he has been on the receiving end of bad race luck. In the '09 Vuelta he was very critical of Valverde, Spain and the Spanish people when he punctured and "the race was on" 15km from the finish on the climb and the shimano neutral service couldn't get his wheel changed quickly.

He also blamed the Spanish for the tacks incident? ···? How does he know the nationality of the tack thrower?

Anyway, he's often said that the GC shouldn't be influenced by mechanicals, crashes and other "luck" events... that it should be the legs.

Then when it happens to be on his side, he says "to make rational decisions for such an unexpected situation isn’t easy,” Evans said. “Our job is to race, and to race to the finish. That’s the first thing on our mind."

Doesn't sound too consistent, especially if this 1 minute he gained has an influence on the final GC.

Matthews won the stage, Matthews is in pink, it was Matthews call not Evans yet so many of you point to Evans besides the fact the crash was the result of the racers poor decision to take the roundabout at speed in funky conditions.

[rain dogs]

Matthews won the stage, Matthews is in pink, it was Matthews call not Evans yet so many of you point to Evans besides the fact the crash was the result of the racers poor decision to take the roundabout at speed in funky conditions.

I think people point at Cadel because he had a domestique pulling and he rode second wheel. Matthews always followed Cadel.

And, my personal point, and I stand behind it is, outside of the exceptional, these are racing incidents and it is racing... so race on.

My point above was that Cadel has been inconsistent in his response to these kinds of things. He still brings up the '09 Vuelta, yet about yesterday he says "Our job is to race, and to race to the finish. That’s the first thing on our mind."

So, why the change of tune? He was really sour about his puncture in the Vuelta, by his own words it should have just be a racing incident, no?

I think it's a bit foul to imply, when it's good for me it's fair, when it's bad... it's not.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Another that I can think of is in the Tour near Bath a few years back a ton of the GC guys crashed in a little hill because there was oil on the road or something.

You do realize petrol on the road is what caused the mass chain reaction in yesterday's crash, right? http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/samuel-sanchez/im-amazed-i-didnt-break-anything

[nooneline]

No one has mentioned that Matthews (the GC leader) was also in the front group. Evans had no choice except to stay with Matthews. Crashes are integral to racing. Smart GC riders stay near the front to avoid them if possible. Evans rode smart. If the crash that caused the split had been due to very unusual circumstances (e.g., tacks at 2012 TDF), then I could see the point of the riders self-neutralizing the race. Otherwise, it's game on.

- Greg

I agree, and I'm also glad that a lot of this conversation is coming down against waiting in this situation. Here's why:

1. We often erroneously assume that riders have complete information. Yeah, there are radios, but if the people in the car are jumping out of the car to help injured riders and replace broken bikes, then radios don't do squat. Chances are, all Cadel knew is that there was a crash and hew as on the right side of it. Any bike racer knows that means one thing: GO.

2. Crashing is part of racing. Waiting is considered to be sporting when there is some sort of outside interference (tacks, hats grabbing handlebars, etc) or if there's time to realize that there's broad danger to the peloton (roads covered in wet diesel fuel).

3. Oops, I got gapped and the racing is hard. Better throw myself into the gutter and then expect my rivals to sit up and wait for me.

So, why the change of tune? He was really sour about his puncture in the Vuelta, by his own words it should have just be a racing incident, no?

As I recall, Cadel was really upset about his Vuelta puncture because it took several minutes for him to get a wheel change and he was watching his GC chances evaporate fairly late in the race. There were no neutral wheels to be seen and his team car wasn't on the ball.

[chengher87]

From Michael Matthews:

“We definitely didn’t ride once the crash had happened, we tried to neutralize the race, but other teams wanted to still ride so, that’s up to them. We were happy to neutralize it. You never want to see a crash like that and try and take advantage of it.”

[CunegoFan]

There is no way Evans wins this Giro. He may have taken out 40 seconds or so on Quintana, but Quintana will put 5 minutes into Evans in the first big climb.

Quintana managed to grab a whole two seconds. People seem to forget that Evans would have taken second overall last year if his electronic shifting would not have frozen in too large of a gear, and Evans this year is better than the he was last year.

I still expect him to fade during the last week, but he could still pull off the win.

[rustychisel]

Quintana managed to grab a whole two seconds. People seem to forget that Evans would have taken second overall last year if his electronic shifting would not have frozen in too large of a gear, and Evans this year is better than the he was last year.

I still expect him to fade during the last week, but he could still pull off the win.

Haha. I'm ambivalent about CE, but no, he has no chance with all the armchair generals stacked against him

[rain dogs]

Quintana managed to grab a whole two seconds. People seem to forget that Evans would have taken second overall last year if his electronic shifting would not have frozen in too large of a gear, and Evans this year is better than the he was last year.

I still expect him to fade during the last week, but he could still pull off the win.

Today wasn't a big climb. The finish I think it peaked at 1200m ish, and was about 800m gain? I don't remember exactly (Oh yeah, and it had that decent in the middle, the last section was just 300ishm gain).

Nairo won't be trying to do anything but protect his position or sprint for a few seconds here and there in the first week and a half. Unless Cadel is really struggling.

He'll be timing to peak for the last week. I don't think you'll really see big gains/losses until the 25th to Montecampoine (1400m gain).

Honestly, Nairo didn't even look all that strong today, which is interesting. He's likely just riding into form, but you never know if he's going to get there.

Tomorrow should be interesting. I think we'll see little in time gaps from the main contenders, but we'll start seeing who are the main contenders. I doubt you'll see 20 strong heading to the final km.... maybe 12.