Duck and Cover

[e-RICHIE]

where are the decoys* when they're needed?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident



*http://www.myrtlewoodgallery.com/owcanvasback.jpg

[ti_boi]

a lot of Friendly Fire about these days..... :crap:

[Bill Bove]

Don't question my policys.

[manet]

http://www.swarthmore.edu/bulletin/archive/97/mar97/leadbelly.gif

[andy mac]

guns don't kill people.

(insert own word here) with guns kill people.

[e-RICHIE]

guns don't kill people.

(insert own word here) with guns kill people.

what?
i read where it was a superficial wound.
is there another link?

[stevep]

the guy was nice to a democrat. had to blast him.

[andy mac]

what?
i read where it was a superficial wound.
is there another link?


you're right.

it was the only reponse i could think of that didn't violate the forum's guidelines...

:rolleyes:

[JohnS]

I can't figure out how a human wearing blaze orange could be mistaken for a bird.

[shaq-d]

to quote a bluesman

boom boom boom boom
bang bang bang bang

[Bill Bove]

I can't figure out how a human wearing blaze orange could be mistaken for a bird.
I believe in gun control.

Gun control is hitting what you're aiming at.

Don't p1ss off Drick Cheney.

[Chief]

I can't figure out how a human wearing blaze orange could be mistaken for a bird.

Ask Greg Lemond!!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . there's an Armstrong mixed up in this! ;)

BBD

[manet]

Ask Greg Lemond!!

lemond was turkey hunting _ there's no orange involved,
unless you choose to wear it walking to + from the hunting
area.

[jerk]

what manet said. turkeys are not color blind and even by their own (the hunters not the turkeys) admission are ten to fifteen iq points smarter than their hunters.

the jerk took a couple belgian pals of his turkey hunting one time.....those three had been bird hunting before but nothing prepared them for the fiasco that ensued. it involved at least three grown men crying and the other four laughing.

the pathetic thing is that next time this crew gets together, they want to go duck hunting. okay, not really, they want to see donald duck at freaking disney world. if you must know the jerk's thoughts on disney world, he suggests you read up on your baudrillard. doesn't matter though, the dates are already set.

jerk

[Too Tall]

I have great respect for folks who have a gun culture and I mean that in the strictest and most economical sense. If you were raised with guns in the household follwed the rules and paid attention than injury from guns is da#n near non-existant. Is there a lost leader in this? Hmmmm? M'kay.

[e-RICHIE]

I have great respect for folks who have a gun culture and I mean that in the strictest and most economical sense. If you were raised with guns in the household follwed the rules and paid attention than injury from guns is da#n near non-existant. Is there a lost leader in this? Hmmmm? M'kay.



not really -
whittington will be the first lawyer to win the tour.

[jerk]

not really -
whittington will be the first lawyer to win the tour.

p.o.t.m.f.m.

[H.Frank Beshear]

When I was 11-12 I got a 410 for my birthday. Dad takes me out behind the house with my new shotgun and a popcan. He drops the popcan on the ground loads a shell into the 410 and blows the can into pieces. He turned around handed me the shotgun and said." It will do the same to you or anything you point it at. Don't ever forget it" 34 years later I still remember. A gun is a tool not a toy and has to be respected at all times. They should considered always loaded and need to be treated accordingly. Stepping off the soapbox now. Frank

[malcolm]

Frank, are we brothers.

[manet]

in arms

[Samster]

Hey... I'm sure the guy feels bad about what happened.

--sam

ps. which guy? Both of them.

[andy mac]

When I was 11-12 I got a 410 for my birthday. Dad takes me out behind the house with my new shotgun and a popcan. He drops the popcan on the ground loads a shell into the 410 and blows the can into pieces. He turned around handed me the shotgun and said." It will do the same to you or anything you point it at. Don't ever forget it" 34 years later I still remember. A gun is a tool not a toy and has to be respected at all times. They should considered always loaded and need to be treated accordingly. Stepping off the soapbox now. Frank



guns don't kill people. accidents with guns kill/blind/disable people.


(my friend got a bb gun for his 10th birthday. he shot me in the leg. i broke his nose with a tennis racquet. we are still friends. :beer: )

[Sandy]

When I was 11-12 I got a 410 for my birthday. Dad takes me out behind the house with my new shotgun and a popcan. He drops the popcan on the ground loads a shell into the 410 and blows the can into pieces. He turned around handed me the shotgun and said." It will do the same to you or anything you point it at. Don't ever forget it" 34 years later I still remember. A gun is a tool not a toy and has to be respected at all times. They should considered always loaded and need to be treated accordingly. Stepping off the soapbox now. Frank

My dad did the identical thing to me, but I was the popcan. :)


Full of holes,


Shotgun Sandy

[Too Tall]

Twizzler, you past me by I won't even try. Don't have a clue but chu know what? POTMFMillenium feels right.

What I was alluding to is that I've heard of and had direct experience with inexperienced folks who-goes-a-huntin' with their pals and it scares the carp out of me and I won't do it no mo because they don't handle themselves or their responsibility with a firearms properly. This incident has the palor of an avoidable accident...somethin' that never should have happened.

[William]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/Bert2.PNG

[e-RICHIE]

Twizzler, you past me by I won't even try. Don't have a clue but chu know what? POTMFMillenium feels right.

What I was alluding to is that I've heard of and had direct experience with inexperienced folks who-goes-a-huntin' with their pals and it scares the carp out of me and I won't do it no mo because they don't handle themselves or their responsibility with a firearms properly. This incident has the palor of an avoidable accident...somethin' that never should have happened.


but cheney was quayle hunting, follow-up reports noted.

[Tom]

Tell us the dates and I'll keep an eye on the AP wire. This should be good.

[Kevan]

he'd be a goner.

[flydhest]

I can't figure out how a human wearing blaze orange could be mistaken for a bird.

It was a slam dunk.

[Too Tall]

Or a spelling error?
Twizzler, I've got newfound respect for your funny bone. Do you file that bars-t#rd sharp everyday? ;)

What would Elmer Fudd do?

[William]

What would Elmer Fudd do?

Kill da wabbit?


William ;)

[e-RICHIE]

i heard on the olympic sports update that
cheney is an alternate on the biathlon team.

[taz-t]

i heard on the olympic sports update that
cheney is an alternate on the biathlon team.

Ba da BING!

Now take my wife... PLEASE!

[Too Tall]

*$ ANNOUNCEMENT *$
HSPD12 Enforcement Division
Ossifer Blastula division commander

Sirs, your Ip dresses are being recorded and a guy will visit your homes in shorts to confiscate hard drives.

You cooperation is appreciated.

[e-RICHIE]

bump-issimo
http://****cheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

(replace the asterisks with the correct spelling yo atmo...)

[gasman]

e-man-

You are way too good at finding this stuff.

Happy Birthday

[Louis]

From the NYT:

"Dr. David Blanchard, the emergency room chief, estimated that Mr. Whittington had more than 5 but "probably less than 150 to 200" pellets lodged in his body."

I would be very, very worried if I were the lawyer and they could not pin down the number of pellets better than this, especially if a pellet near the heart can cause a small "heart attack."

IMO This is no longer just a joking matter...

[Tony Edwards]

Yeah, the idea of metal pellets migrating around one's body is not exactly reassuring, particularly when one or more of them has found its way to the heart. There are no guarantees when it comes to performing surgery on a 78-year-old man.

[andy mac]

latest...


Harry Whittington, the man United States Vice-President **** Cheney accidentally shot while hunting, suffered a minor heart attack today after pieces of birdshot lodged in his heart, doctors said.

Harry Whittington, 78, was moved into intensive care and ordered to stay in the Corpus Christi, Texas, hospital for at least another seven days to monitor his condition, said Christus Spohn Memorial Hospital spokesman Peter Banko.

[e-RICHIE]

latest...


Harry Whittington, the man United States Vice-President **** Cheney accidentally shot while hunting, suffered a minor heart attack today after pieces of birdshot lodged in his heart, doctors said.

Harry Whittington, 78, was moved into intensive care and ordered to stay in the Corpus Christi, Texas, hospital for at least another seven days to monitor his condition, said Christus Spohn Memorial Hospital spokesman Peter Banko.


give him 7 months on the trainer, some tan lines, and
a pair of ada's and he'll be winning the tour de france.

[andy mac]

give him 7 months on the trainer, some tan lines, and
a pair of ada's and he'll be winning the tour de france.




http://www.funnies.com/funnypicsnov/turkeytanline.jpg

[H.Frank Beshear]

What no one is talking about is that they were both hunting with out the proper permits. Illegally hunting I'd have lost my gun, my dog ,the vehicle I drove in. Cheney got fined a hundred bucks or so, for poaching. Oh wait I'm sure there were matter of great impotance to be discussed. Sorry just one more nail for the anti yeh too political I'll stop now at disgusted :crap: . Frank

[sirroada]

I have to really laugh. Yesterday, when the story was released to the press the White House said Cheney "peppered" whatever his name was with birdshot. Then today we hear that as a matter of fact he was peppered so deeply that the birdshot made its way in his heart! Peppered my a$*!! He was drilled. Why can't the guy stand up like a real man and admit that he made SEVERAL mistakes (hunting without a permit, and mistaking a 6+ footer for a quail) and actually thinking it would be OK to shoot that 6 foot quail with a shotgun. We should send ole Charlton Heston after Cheney to teach him some basic gun safety.

[Climb01742]

if this had been you or me who had shot someone, would the police have waited 12 hours to interview us?

as an aside, check out a film called "the hunting party". not a few parallels.

[Too Tall]

This just got not so funny. The man suffered a heart attack due to pellets lodged in his heart. Not good. A man his age is at high risk for getting his chest cracked not to mention. Anyone know if he was shooting lead or steel shot? Makes a diff. if they leave it.

[Tom]

The best part is that they're out shooting what amounts to semi-domesticated chickens. They release the birds the day before and then drive the sportsmen out there to have at it.

Dan'l Boone's making like a helicopter.

[e-RICHIE]

The best part is that they're out shooting what amounts to semi-domesticated chickens. They release the birds the day before and then drive the sportsmen out there to have at it.

Dan'l Boone's making like a helicopter.


sounds like kent state.

[Bill Bove]

I'm sure nobody breathed into a breathalyzer. Like Climb said, D1ckless was not treated like you or me. Anybody want to take a guess as to weather alchohol may been involved?

[e-RICHIE]

I'm sure nobody breathed into a breathalyzer. Like Climb said, D1ckless was not treated like you or me. Anybody want to take a guess as to weather alchohol may been involved?

is that a rhetorical question?









ps - loved the you-know-what!

[jerk]

first he shoots him. then he gives the guy one of his heart attacks. pure evil, imho bro.

jerk

[e-RICHIE]

first he shoots him. then he gives the guy one of his heart attacks. pure evil, imho bro.

jerk


cheney doesn't know what a real heart attack is atmo

[manet]

http://www.akrondesign.com/Mascots/marylens/birds1.jpg

[manet]

http://www.tri-center.k12.ia.us/04-05%20pics/BirdMascotHooDoo.jpg

[JohnS]

I bet the right would be in a much bigger uproar right now if the the VP was from the other party and wasn't really a "hunter", but just out there for voter brownie points, like Al Gore was. It's stupid! How did they cover things up for 18hrs? It's got nothing to do with PR, there should have been an immediate criminal investigation!!!

[manet]

http://www.oz.net/~lucidity/chicken.jpg

[Serpico]

I bet the right would be in a much bigger uproar right now if the the VP was from the other party and wasn't really a "hunter", but just out there for voter brownie points, like Al Gore was. It's stupid! How did they cover things up for 18hrs? It's got nothing to do with PR, there should have been an immediate criminal investigation!!!


I agree, Kerry would've been a fake accidental shoot your buddy sportsman--at least the republicans do it with panache and style.

Plus Kerry would've flip-flop'd and said something akin to "I didn't mean to shoot him, after I shot him".

Cue up the Lee Greenwood--I need to go affix some yellow ribbon magnets to my car.

Either way, discussing this is bad for national security--if they know how we shoot our friends when hunting, well... then the terrorists have already won.

[Bill Bove]

The phrase "target acquisition" keeps popping into my head, but then I was taught proper weapon discipline when I SERVED.

[JohnS]

The 3 Commandments of Gun Safety
1. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
2. Be aware of your target and what's behind it.
3. Don't point your weapon at anything you don't want to destroy.

I believe he broke 2 and 3. :no:

[zeroking17]

I feel nothing but profound Schadenfreude* for Chaney's current situation.


*Etymology: German, from Schaden damage + Freude joy
: enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others

...

[Dr. Doofus]

.

[Andreu]

and only commandment to avoid accidents with guns
1. Don't carry a gun.

[72gmc]

The phrase "target acquisition" keeps popping into my head, but then I was taught proper weapon discipline when I SERVED.

A very appropriate comment for this situation. And thank you for serving our country.

[JohnS]

and only commandment to avoid accidents with guns
1. Don't carry a gun.
Only if you're an imbecile. The rest of us are quite safe with them.

[Kevin]

Too bad Bush did not go on the trip with Cheney ;)

Kevin

[e-RICHIE]

Too bad Bush did not go on the trip with Cheney ;)

Kevin

yeah next time cheney can beat the bushes atmo

[Ginger]

They probably waited 18 hours until they were somewhat sure that cheney hadn't offed the guy.

My dad is a pheasant hunter and has always built his own guns. I've been around them since before I was born. It doesn't make me any safer than the next guy, but I certainly have a heap more respect for firearms than a lot of my friends do. For some reason, the tool and the actual result aren't connected. It has always amazed me how careless that those who "have been around guns forever" can be with where they point a gun, trained or not, hunting or no, loaded or no.
Accidents happen. Someone has to contribute to the statistics.

[fiamme red]

yeah next time cheney can beat the bushes atmoNicely said, e-RICHIE. No beating around the bush for you!

[davids]

I'm sure it will be a Fair and Balanced ®© interview, and that it will settle all questions about the event and how it was handled by the administration.

[fiamme red]

Maybe one of those hunting shows on OLN should get Cheney as a special guest?

[zeroking17]

Maybe one of those hunting shows on OLN should get Cheney as a special guest?

So would the chicken hawk be the hunter or the hunted?

[93legendti]

I bet the right would be in a much bigger uproar right now if the the VP was from the other party and wasn't really a "hunter", but just out there for voter brownie points, like Al Gore was. It's stupid! How did they cover things up for 18hrs? It's got nothing to do with PR, there should have been an immediate criminal investigation!!!


Exactly. Just like with Vince Foster's "suicide". Or good old Ted Kennedy and his murder of poor Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquid****.

[davids]

I'm sure it will be a Fair and Balanced ®© interview, and that it will settle all questions about the event and how it was handled by the administration.
I just watched Fox's "news flash" video reporting their exclusive interview. Their talking head (Molly Heneford?) explained that the VP didn't tell anyone this happened because he was "showing caution" and respecting Whittington's privacy. OK, got it.

She also referred to poor Scott McClellan as being "peppered" with questions from the White House press corps!

You can't make this stuff up...

http://www.foxnews.com/images/193126/7_25_021506_whittington_wounds.jpg

[Bill Bove]

I'd rather go for a drive in Teddy's buick than one of Rummy's "army that you have" humvee's.

[Serotta_Andrew]

O.k. please keep the politics at a minimum.... so anyone see Petacchi is 2 to nill over Boonen...

[gdw]

If that picture of the wounds is accurate, the shooting took place at close range. Shotgun chokes are designed to spread the shot into a controlled pattern to maximize the chance of hitting a moving target. The density of the pattern in the picture indicates the victim was close enough to have been very visible. Rumors have already sprung up about the possibility of a second shooter having been involved. Apparently credible witnesses claim that shots were fired from a grassy knoll located to the right of the victim and not to the rear where Cheney was allegedly standing.

[zeroking17]

Reuters just released this photo of the hunting party.

[Bill Bove]

O.k. please keep the politics at a minimum.... so anyone see Petacchi is 2 to nill over Boonen...
Yeah, just wait till the road tilts up. AleJet will be AleBomb. Boonen is tougher. IMHO of course.

[e-RICHIE]

...

[manet]

fresh pepper, anyone?

[manet]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pepper&word2=salt

[H.Frank Beshear]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pepper&word2=quail

[manet]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=peppered&word2=rubbed

[William]

Reuters just released this photo of the hunting party.

Yes, but they didn't release this one of the veeps congressional aides who witnessed the whole incident.

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/compdiff/shooting.jpg

William :rolleyes:

[billrick]

If that picture of the wounds is accurate, the shooting took place at close range. Shotgun chokes are designed to spread the shot into a controlled pattern to maximize the chance of hitting a moving target. The density of the pattern in the picture indicates the victim was close enough to have been very visible.

I've been avoiding this thread because of the politics and the joyous schadenfreude, but there is some basic shotgun data that will help here.

The veep was shooting a 28 ga, which typically carries a load of 3/4 oz shot. The TPW accident report states that he was shooting 7 1/2 shot, which gives you approximatley 262 pellets in a 3/4 oz. load. The standard choke set up for quail hunting in Texas is Improved Cylinder over Modified (though some like wide open Skeet). A shooter will save the Modified choke barrel for the second shot, since the bird will be further out. A modified choke is calibrated to put approximately 83% of its load in a 30 inch circle at 30 yards.

Doing the math, this gives us 179 pellets in 30 inches at 30 yards. That is consistent with the story as I've heard it. (BTW the "photo" on the previous page represents the wound with between 300 and 400 pellet holes. Way off.)

Another thing to remember is that this is wing shooting, not rifle or pistol shooting. The hunter is pulling down on a 3 inch target that is traveling 20 to 30 mph. If the veep is a pass through shooter, he would track the target and then rapidly pull ahead of it to give the proper "lead." We are talking milliseconds here. Also, given that older folks will have a more narrow field of vision and that wing shooters are so focused on the target, it is not suprising that he didn't see the poor chap who got blasted until it was too late.

My take, this was a very sad accident that could have been prevented if the victim had followed protocol and stayed behind the hunting party at a safe distance. The veep is a gentleman for admiting "fault" because he pulled the trigger.

Cue the theme music for CSI Serotta! (Hey, this thread is no longer O/T!)

;)

[e-RICHIE]

do we know for certain whether these cats planned
a dinner party with the game or was it just a day
long shmooze-a-thon? were they out there hunting
in order to "trim the herd" and protect a species, or
were these living creatures there to be shot?

i don't have a strong opinion on the gun issue, but
i do wonder what message is sent when these guys,
particularly these guys, go out for a day in the wild
when they really have no problem getting a meal in
any room in texas. even if they did bag a quail, did
they really need to? afaik, there is no hunting equiv-
ilant to "catch and release".

[sspielman]

do we know for certain whether these cats planned
a dinner party with the game or was it just a day
long shmooze-a-thon? were they out there hunting
in order to "trim the herd" and protect a species, or
were these living creatures there to be shot?

i don't have a strong opinion on the gun issue, but
i do wonder what message is sent when these guys,
particularly these guys, go out for a day in the wild
when they really have no problem getting a meal in
any room in texas. even if they did bag a quail, did
they really need to? afaik, there is no hunting equiv-
ilant to "catch and release".

In my little corner of the world, we have alot of big shots who come around from time to time to "hunt". Usually, they are TERRIBLE shots, and the guide has to do his share of "guiding" to make sure that they have some success. In many cases, they utilise what is known as a "regulated shooting area" which essentially means that the animals are raised and released (usually just prior to the hunt) for the express purpose of providing adequate "targets". For some species such as quail, if the hunting party proves to be incompetent, the "game" will be placed in a burlap bag and spun around in circles a few dozen times to make sure that it doesn't have too much of a chance to fly away quickly.....You may find it hard to believe that I am not on a soapbox on this issue, but there are aspects of this level of "sport" that really stick in my crawl....

[William]

In my little corner of the world, we have alot of big shots who come around from time to time to "hunt". Usually, they are TERRIBLE shots, and the guide has to do his share of "guiding" to make sure that they have some success. In many cases, they utilise what is known as a "regulated shooting area" which essentially means that the animals are raised and released (usually just prior to the hunt) for the express purpose of providing adequate "targets". For some species such as quail, if the hunting party proves to be incompetent, the "game" will be placed in a burlap bag and spun around in circles a few dozen times to make sure that it doesn't have too much of a chance to fly away quickly.....You may find it hard to believe that I am not on a soapbox on this issue, but there are aspects of this level of "sport" that really stick in my crawl....

IIEEEEE EEEEEEE unk, unk RRRRRRR (Hunting? That ain't hunting by a long shot. Come back here with me and I'll show you soft, wimpy, overly narcissistic "advanced" humans what REAL hunting is all about. Sheesh. I'll bet you'd think shooting a Tiger on a tether is "real" hunting too. Idiots!!! :rolleyes: ).

http://www.hedonia.net/art/images/2001/2001-03.jpg

[93legendti]

do we know for certain whether these cats planned
a dinner party with the game or was it just a day
long shmooze-a-thon? were they out there hunting
in order to "trim the herd" and protect a species, or
were these living creatures there to be shot?

i don't have a strong opinion on the gun issue, but
i do wonder what message is sent when these guys,
particularly these guys, go out for a day in the wild
when they really have no problem getting a meal in
any room in texas. even if they did bag a quail, did
they really need to? afaik, there is no hunting equiv-
ilant to "catch and release".


Well, I guess the "no politics" reminder from Andrew did little good, so I think I'll chime in. I love the "particularly these guys" comment. I do not recall if you made the same comment when Kerry staged his "hunting trip" just before the 2004 election...geez, I hope so. You'e right. It would have been better if Hillary went hunting after taking $50,000 in campaign funds from Hamas; or Bill Clinton after he pardoned Marc Rich, sold the guest room in the White House to the highest bidder, allowed Iran to get nuclear technology, let North Korea keep pursuing nukes, made Arafat the most frequent visitor to the White House during his 8 years, and/or get a b j from Monica instead of taking Osama from Yemen when the he was offered to the U.S.; and it would have been better if Sandy Berger went hunting after he stole and destroyed classified documents.

"Did they really need to"? And "i do wonder what message is sent when these guys, particularly these guys, go out for a day in the wild
when they really have no problem getting a meal in
any room in texas." ????!!?

Kulassic!

Good, I feel better already.

[e-RICHIE]

Good, I feel better already.

good.
i'm an enabler atmo.

[Serotta_Andrew]

and then... it all comes to and end.

[William]

Well, I guess the "no politics" reminder from Andrew did little good, so I think I'll chime in. I love the "particularly these guys" comment. I do not recall if you made the same comment when Kerry staged his "hunting trip" just before the 2004 election...geez, I hope so. You'e right. It would have been better if Hillary went hunting after taking $50,000 in campaign funds from Hamas; or Bill Clinton after he pardoned Marc Rich, sold the guest room in the White House to the highest bidder, allowed Iran to get nuclear technology, let North Korea keep pursuing nukes, made Arafat the most frequent visitor to the White House during his 8 years, and/or get a b j from Monica instead of taking Osama from Yemen when the he was offered to the U.S.; and it would have been better if Sandy Berger went hunting after he stole and destroyed classified documents.

"Did they really need to"? And "i do wonder what message is sent when these guys, particularly these guys, go out for a day in the wild
when they really have no problem getting a meal in
any room in texas." ????!!?

Kulassic!

Good, I feel better already.

I'd be willing to bet that "e" would apply it both ways.

Just saying,

William