Would you buy/sell a used carbon fork that had been in a crash?

[Bob Ross]

I hate to feed into the Carbon Is Fragile/Assplodes hysteria, but I'm having a bit of a moral quandry:

I have a three-year-old EDGE 2.0 fork that was on my bike when I crashed last fall. The crash damaged the (steel) frame enough to warrant sending it back to the framebuilder and having the downtube replaced.

There is no visible damage to the fork, and the framebuilder said "It might be fine, it's hard to tell, if you want to play it safe get a new fork."

I like safe. I got a new fork.

But I've still got this old fork, and, short of making a lawn ornament out of it, I'm not sure what to do with it. Should I consign it to the trash heap, or sell it to someone braver than I am?

Would anyone in their right mind buy a used EDGE 2.0 that has been in a crash? Is my hesitation to sell it justifiable? What would Jesus do?

(Jesus Manzano, I mean.)

[nooneline]

It really depends on the crash.
Full disclosure never hurts.

[MattTuck]

Donate it to a local mechanical engineering professor. He could have his class test the crap out of it to the point of failure. You'd get a report to know if it truly was compromised, and if give you some confidence (or the opposite) when you have future issues with carbon forks.

The students would get an educational experience, you'd get a tax write off, and you'd save someone else the potential costs of a dental reconstruction.

Seems like a win/win/win.

[vav]

You can always try it on your wife's bike...;)

[echelon_john]

Put it on your trainer-only bike.
Turn it into the world's lightest truing stand.
Turn it into a lamp.
Coat rack?
Drill holes in it and turn it into a flask.

But don't sell it. Just not worth it.

[grailedmund]

dont buy it. not worth it.

[MadRocketSci]

donate it to somebody you like from googling "art made from bike parts"

[William]

I like the lamp idea.:)






William

[witcombusa]

I wouldn't even buy one that hadn't been in a crash....

[fuzzalow]

The overly simple answer is abide from the old proverb: Do to others as you would have them do to you. If the fork is not deemed safe enough for your own use then it isn't safe enough for someone else to use either.

I'd make a lamp out of it but the questionable aesthetics of such a contrivance would have Mrs. fuzzalow never allowing to see the light (!) of day outside of the fuzz-cave.

[kramnnim]

My first thought was sure, why not sell it, with full disclosure. But an unscrupulous buyer might pass it on without mentioning the crash, etc...but that isn't your fault...

I wonder if Enve would be of any help?

[oldpotatoe]

I hate to feed into the Carbon Is Fragile/Assplodes hysteria, but I'm having a bit of a moral quandry:

I have a three-year-old EDGE 2.0 fork that was on my bike when I crashed last fall. The crash damaged the (steel) frame enough to warrant sending it back to the framebuilder and having the downtube replaced.

There is no visible damage to the fork, and the framebuilder said "It might be fine, it's hard to tell, if you want to play it safe get a new fork."

I like safe. I got a new fork.

But I've still got this old fork, and, short of making a lawn ornament out of it, I'm not sure what to do with it. Should I consign it to the trash heap, or sell it to someone braver than I am?

Would anyone in their right mind buy a used EDGE 2.0 that has been in a crash? Is my hesitation to sell it justifiable? What would Jesus do?

(Jesus Manzano, I mean.)

Front wheel sculpture, wind chime. Don't sell, don't use it...imho

[4Rings6Stars]

Front end impact? Any visible damage? If the answers are no / no, then I would ride it but not sell it. If either is a yes...I like the idea of donating to somebody that will test it to the point of failure or the ultralight truing stand idea.

[dekindy]

Contact Edge. Take it to LBS for inspection.

[Tony T]

Would anyone in their right mind buy a used EDGE 2.0 that has been in a crash? Is my hesitation to sell it justifiable?

Since you didn't want to chance it and replaced the fork (I would have also), I would hesitate selling it. Trash it and forget it.

[DCW]

Donate it to a local mechanical engineering professor. He could have his class test the crap out of it to the point of failure. You'd get a report to know if it truly was compromised, and if give you some confidence (or the opposite) when you have future issues with carbon forks.

The students would get an educational experience, you'd get a tax write off, and you'd save someone else the potential costs of a dental reconstruction.

Seems like a win/win/win.

+1 - Great idea!

[beeatnik]

how was the steel DT compromised but the fork not destroyed? sounds like an interesting crash.

[54ny77]

make a carbon fork lamp?

it'll be the lightest stiffest lamp on the market. or on your workbench.

http://pikeplaceproducers.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/lampcycleblue-bike-fork-lamp_1.jpg

[Stephen2014]

Sell it to a film studio for when they make a new Columbo film 'Murder in the Peloton'.

[Bob Ross]

make a carbon fork lamp?

it'll be the lightest stiffest lamp on the market. or on your workbench.

http://pikeplaceproducers.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/lampcycleblue-bike-fork-lamp_1.jpg



Wow! That is so much win!

Yeah, you've all helped with my ethical dilemma...just wouldn't feel comfortable selling something that I wouldn't ride myself. But a desk lamp, cot dayum that is hawt!

[MadRocketSci]

run a skewer and quick release (campy, of course) through it to lock/unlock the tilt adjustment :beer:

just kidding, non-UL compliant fire hazard!

[redir]

I wouldn't even buy one that hadn't been in a crash....

Was gonna say the same thing.

OP: I posted almost the same question here last year. In my case I bent an alloy drop out on my bike rack (idiot move on my part) and I had several well qualified mechanics tell me not to worry about it as it was easily bent back with the proper tool.

What I did was ask myself "would I ride that?" The answer was no. So it's still in a box some where.

I think first of all even on a quality fork the market for one would be small. I'm sure me and witcombusa are not the only people who would not even consider buying a used fork.

[bikser]

Was it a frontal crash where the fork made contact?

For $10 shipping why not send it back to ENVE to inspect?

[Ralph]

Was it a frontal crash where the fork made contact?

For $10 shipping why not send it back to ENVE to inspect?

My opinion also. (I've got a Eve 2.0 on a frame). I would not try to sell it, but would try to find out if I could use it again.

[campy man]

Worked many years as an engineer in the composites industry fabricating parts for aerospace. Parts were typically inspected via ultrasonic or radiography(X-ray) before shipping. External/surface inspection was only used for cosmetic defects.

Composites fail suddenly and without notice. When tensile testing composite samples for QA the coupons typically failed suddenly with a loud bang. Have you ever seen a bent tube on a composite frameset after a crash?

I would not sell the fork even with full disclosure, somebody mentioned the buyer could sell again without disclosing the accident. Strongly suggest donating to a school for destructive testing or something more creative ... just not on a bike.


Jus my $0.02

[victoryfactory]

Dada!

[eddief]

Was this on your gorgeous orange Stong to which I have the near twin from Curtlo?

If you can't see anything wrong with it, I'd buy it and put it through the complex eddief analysis and use it if it passes. Need 43 or 45 rake. I'd have done the same thing with my crashed Giant carbon frame, but the insurance company made the bike shop cut the sucker in half. I am not an insurance company. Will sign non-liability statement :) I'm serious. Will pay shipping.

[phcollard]

I would not sell it.

If somebody wants it for free (like Eddie it seems haha) just pass it to him but say "hey I warned you... I'm not responsible for anything from now on".

Or you can ask yourself the question : would I buy it if I knew this fork's history? Answer is probably no.

[eddief]

if you put on your bike, put a wheel in it, flex it hard as hell with all your weight in all directions, even force it against a wall and curb....hard, then risk is there, but highly minimal. just an inexpert opine.

[rain dogs]

I like safe. I got a new fork.

If you wouldn't ride it, that's your answer right there in regards to selling it.

You shouldn't sell it. If you sell it you're exchanging utility value for monetary value, the amount of utility given should be fair market for the amount of monetary value received.

Would you hand over a perfectly good Enve fork for bills that the buyer says could very well be counterfeit? In other words, not only may not work but get you in a load of trouble if it doesn't. No, you wouldn't. That's like the inverse of what you're asking if you sell it.

Give it away to someone who'll take the risk, or could use it creatively or trade it for something equally sketchy, like a collection of un-detonated hand grenades, that maybe are duds. :banana:

[Louis]

It's unwise to sell it, even with full disclosure.

Just because someone else is foolish enough to ride something that you yourself have decided is unsafe, doesn't mean that you should provide the means for that to happen, let alone try to profit from their stupidity.

I'd crush each leg of the fork in my bench vise then put it out with the trash.

[pbarry]

I wouldn't even buy one that hadn't been in a crash....

I'm sure me and witcombusa are not the only people who would not even consider buying a used fork. snip

Witcomb's point was that he would not ride [even] a new carbon fork. If I interpreted the double negative correctly. :beer:

[rustychisel]

It depends on the nature of the crash, but

yes, I'd ride it, and

no, I'd probably not sell it (due more to the intricacies of 'full disclosure' rather than concerns over the fork itself)

[Scuzzer]

yes, I'd ride it, and

no, I'd probably not sell it

This. I'd be more paranoid to sell it than to ride it. I don't want to think about screwing someone else for cash. I'm happy to screw myself for less cash.

[savine]

You are having problems....on how many forums have you asked this?
CHUCK THE THING!!! Sorry if I sound off but have got jetlag.

[mgm777]

Don't ride it (if you value your teeth). Don't sell it to anyone.
The fact that you're having a "moral quandary" about this decision should be a sufficient indicator as to what the correct course of action should be.

[cnighbor1]

carbon fork that had been in a crash
My Litespeed and I had a crash. The CF fork upon very close inspection had one tiny blemish on it. No way to tell if any internal damage But it could have! Could have is the VERY BIG FACTOR! I thought about it for many weeks. Going back in my mind to college days and a class in Materials. That led to deciding all I need is slight loss of strength which over time become weaker and could fail. Than I said will I go down Mt. diablo at 25 mph thru a turn with that fork. the answer was NO WAY
CF is great put very hard to evaluate if damage internally
Take a piece f wood drill a 1 1/8'' hole in it. stove steerer tube into it Mount the wood to a wall. A great towel holder the wife will love it

[TBDSeattle]

I had an issue similar, but with a frame. The frame and I had been in a hard crash, and I wouldn't have felt safe riding it ever again. I did a very close inspection, but found no visible faults.

A couple of "bro" friends wanted the frame to ride, even though they knew it had been in a crash. A couple offered me a few bucks.

Did I sell? No. I cut the frame tubes with a hacksaw so that nobody would ever ride it again and mounted it on the shop wall. People could see it, but nobody would ride it.

Contrast the price of a traumatic brain injury with the gain of selling a frame or fork. The answer is a no-brainer.

[victoryfactory]

Do large carbon makers have some sort of xray type of gizmo that they
use to check frames and forks as part of normal QC?

Even if they do, it would be unlikely they would let you use it for insurance
reasons. I was just wondering....

VF

[oldpotatoe]

I had an issue similar, but with a frame. The frame and I had been in a hard crash, and I wouldn't have felt safe riding it ever again. I did a very close inspection, but found no visible faults.

A couple of "bro" friends wanted the frame to ride, even though they knew it had been in a crash. A couple offered me a few bucks.

Did I sell? No. I cut the frame tubes with a hacksaw so that nobody would ever ride it again and mounted it on the shop wall. People could see it, but nobody would ride it.

Contrast the price of a traumatic brain injury with the gain of selling a frame or fork. The answer is a no-brainer.

Get it??

When we have carbon bits that are replaced with new after a crash, we break the fork so somebody didn't dumpster dive and ride the thing..

Does that mean we crushed a 'perfectly ok' fork? Maybe but lawsuits are expensive.

[carpediemracing]

I have an ENVE 2.0 fork on my current bike. I also have a crashed frame from back in the day. I also have a full carbon fork I crashed on (bike barely sustained any damage and in fact I rode it for a few months until I received my first custom frame).

If I had a bad ENVE 2.0 fork I'd put it on my own trainer bike.

Conversely you could make a really cool wheel fork (front wheel only) if you use a Yakima roof rack. Buy one of those pipe clamp things that hold pipes at a 90 degree angle.

http://pintechworld.com/core/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/MC-90-2.jpg
From here (http://pintechworld.com/shop/pintech-metal-90-degree-clamp/).

[witcombusa]

snip

Witcomb's point was that he would not ride [even] a new carbon fork. If I interpreted the double negative correctly. :beer:



Exactly right!


I removed the supplied carbon fork from my NEW Ritchey B/A Cross and replaced it with steel.....

[eddief]

I will not post it here.

[DfCas]

If you crash it trash it. I would hacksaw a leg off and throw it out.

[Fatty]

Even if it was sold with full disclosuer , what is to stop the buyer from reselling it and not informing his or her buyer of the crash history. I'd save it for a day when I needed to vent and beat it to bits with a hammer.

[commonguy001]

If you crash it trash it. I would hacksaw a leg off and throw it out.

^^ This^^ except I'd cut the steerer off at the base

I had a Reynolds Pro Peloton fork on a Vamoots I was hit on. While it looked ok and didn't take a direct hit (was hit from behind) I cut it off and trashed the fork after I bought the bike back from the insurance company for the parts. No reason to toss it and have someone recycle it not knowing...

[benb]

Just an anecdote...

Last fall I ran my BH G5 into my garage when it was on the roof rack of my car...

- Frame - completely exploded (top tube, down tube)
- Solid 1/4" diameter steel Yakima fork skewer bent enough to need a replacement
- Enve (when they were Edge) designed/built BH fork completely unblemished

The fork is sitting in my garage and there is no way I'd ride it or sell it but it looks perfect.. these CF forks are super tough. The steerer tube is easily 10x thicker than the top tube was on the frame, and at least 3x thicker than the thickest part of the downtube where it joined the head tube.

[Bob Ross]

Was this on your gorgeous orange Stong to which I have the near twin from Curtlo?

If you can't see anything wrong with it, I'd buy it and put it through the complex eddief analysis and use it if it passes. Need 43 or 45 rake. I'd have done the same thing with my crashed Giant carbon frame, but the insurance company made the bike shop cut the sucker in half. I am not an insurance company. Will sign non-liability statement :) I'm serious. Will pay shipping.


It was indeed on my orange Strong. (Which, btw, came back from Spectrum Powderworks a very slightly different shade of orange; it's now a bit lighter, more pastel.)

I've decided I can't in good conscience sell or even give it away for use as an actual bicycle fork; just wouldn't be able to sleep at night wondering "what if...?" Gonna go the lawn ornament/desk lamp/slingshot route with it I think. Sorry.

[rustychisel]

It's your call and a good call. Internet opinions are worth considerably less than 0.02c.

I opine that back when I was a teen we used to try a break the f***ing things, usually by stunt jumping over apple crates, wrapping ourselves into a mulberry tree, endoing into the neighbours fence. Hell, when I was about eight I was the local Evel Kneivel, but I don't ever remember anyone losing teeth (except for the kid down the road who went into the back of a parked car coz he wasn't looking). Bikes are made tough, even crazy light bikes.

[eddief]

What is the measure of which sort of accident condemns the fork and the measure that would allow re using or selling?

[texbike]

No need to write that fork off yet!!!!

Personally I would test it for issues using the Official Pink Bike "Swing-A-Carbon-Frame-Into-A-Concrete-Block" test (as demonstrated in the last 45 seconds of this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xreZdUBqpJs ) to ensure that it's okay.

Once a number of whacks against a concrete block have shown that it is indeed fine, then it should be safe to sell it to your mother, best friend, or fellow Paceliner (with the assurance that it's been properly tested of course) for only 70% of retail. :)

Texbike

[TBDSeattle]

What is the measure of which sort of accident condemns the fork and the measure that would allow re using or selling?

I guess the evidence from this forum would suggest the measure is your conscience.

An alternative formulation would the ratio of your value of the extra money (greed) to your value of any potential negative outcomes if the part should fail (guilt).

My experience is that within the population there is a wide range of values that individuals find acceptable. Some really want the money no matter the likelihood of a bad outcome, others really don't want to be associated with injury, no matter how much money you offer them.

Still other try to mitigate the denominator by warning the customer. There are many paths.

This is the internet, nobody can force you to sell, or to crush the fork/frame. The decision lies with you.

[Shiversolitude]

Inspect it closely for cracks. I dont think carbon is really that fragile compared to other materials. I ran a carbon frame for years and crashed that thing so many times it wasnt funny. It held up quite well.

[William]

I still like the lamp idea....:)



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i7WiM3CNYiE/UN-Xu9L1oeI/AAAAAAAADms/87cdHYtSN1E/s1600/74bfbafa4fb011e2a7ed22000a1f8f24_7.jpg

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/Treelinebikelamps.jpg

http://www.bikehacks.com/.a/6a0120a7ed5f9d970b017d3bdb5407970c-pi

https://img1.etsystatic.com/008/0/6619531/il_570xN.403068383_n88s.jpg

http://www.orenpersing.com/uploads/1/0/5/0/10505061/4878095_orig.jpg

http://minshewnetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/44//2010/10/Red-Fork-Light_019.jpg

https://img1.etsystatic.com/014/0/6141435/il_570xN.437064763_o41v.jpg







Just saying';)


William