Crit crash

[LegendRider]

.

[bart998]

THAT sucks. Looks like an older group.

[LegendRider]

.

[bcroslin]

Looks like a Florida Velo rider.

[josephr]

his coach used to race dirt track???

[MattTuck]

Dan Martin, are you paying attention? ;)

[dpk501]

Since his helmet is one solid color as well as his shoes, it's obvious that the asymmetry affected his balance and cornering skills...

Sorry to hear about your buddy!

[sailorboy]

uhh, yea...as soon as the group noticed that bit of cornering technique he should have been verbally layed into and swiflty banished to the back.

this ain't cross season, and that don't look like slick grass or mud.

[Tim Porter]

That guy's whole situation is just so wrong. How do you even get to that point??? Yikes, I hope your friend is going to come out of it okay eventually. That photo belongs in the Post Office most wanted section.

[bcroslin]

I've posted the photo in a group I belong to on FB and I'm trying to get the story on what happened. I'll report back if I hear anything.

I'm guessing this is from Athens correct?

[LegendRider]

,

[LegendRider]

I just heard that my friend will have surgery next week.

[gavingould]

yikes. maybe there needs to be a cat 6...
if i ever had to pull out of a pedal even on a group ride, i'd move to the back and play sweeper or go off by myself. crashing myself is one thing, but i'd never want to take out another rider.

[shovelhd]

I just heard that my friend will have surgery next week.

Best of luck to him. Fortunately collarbone surgery is fairly routine these days. He'll be back on the bike quickly.

Definitely looks like a Florida Velo kit. I've ridden with several of their upper category guys. They're crit hammers and good bike handlers. It's pretty much all they race down there is crits. Unfortunately the barrier to entry to Masters is only 10 finishes so you can get yahoos like this in the field every now and then.

This illustrates why I feel so strongly that USAC should eliminate the one day license and require mandatory rider training as part of the Cat5 program. I just became a Category C official. I cannot upgrade to a category B for at least a year and must be mentored in at least 11 different areas before I get to make any decisions. We train our officials, we should train our riders.

[Louis]

It can be life or death:

A few years ago Randy Gillespie from the Chicago area (Team Mack) went down hard during a St Louis crit, hit his head, ended up in a coma and never woke up. They finally disconnected the ventilator and whatever else they had him connected to. It was a long and painful story because some parts of his family wanted to keep him connected and others did not. He was married and had at least one kid...

Link to St Louis forum thread (http://stlbiking.com/forum/index.php/topic/27387-webster-cat-5-crash/)

[bcroslin]

Glad to hear there was an apology and that you're friend is going be ok. If the rider in the photo is who I and a few others think it is I'd be really surprised if the photo in question isn't simply catching him trying to keep the bike upright and not an example of how he takes every corner.

[regularguy412]

That guy's whole situation is just so wrong. How do you even get to that point??? Yikes, I hope your friend is going to come out of it okay eventually. That photo belongs in the Post Office most wanted section.

That's exactly what I thot. That person has no business in a crit. I don't care HOW many years he's been riding/racing. He's evidently learned NOTHING.

I've had the broken collar bone and pain meds and the wrecked bike, but not from a crit wreck. However, it 'was' sort of caused by another person. We were out in the county on a weekly training ride. I was second in the paceline of five riders. Guy in front of me didn't see the six foot piece of strap aluminum lying in the road. His back wheel flipped it up, somehow, into my front wheel. when it came around, it broke the front fork, locked up the wheel and sent me over the bars at about 20 mph. Wasn't really his fault (stuff happens), but I got a nice ambulance ride, a figure-8 sling and shot of morphine for the ride home in the car.

Hope your buddy heals quickly and can get his bike fixed/replaced.

Mike in AR:beer:

[shovelhd]

Unless there is a pile of stopped riders just out of the picture on the right, then there's no reason for him to be unclipped. There are also better ways to negotiate a crash that happens right in front of you without resorting to unclipping while you're railing a corner.

[echelon_john]

Hope that guy never gets on a motorcycle. That move is the quick route to hamburgerville.

[e-RICHIE]

This guy went into the second-to-last turn of a crit on Sunday WAY TOO HOT and took out a friend. My buddy has a wrecked bike, broken collarbone and a prescription for pain killers.

This particular photo is from the same race, but prior to the crash. Apparently cornering isn't his strong suit.
Was your buddy behind him?
Needs more details atmo.
The pic can be misleading.

ps

arrange disorder

:o:D:rolleyes:
;):rolleyes::(
:D:D:D

[tiretrax]

That sucks. Godspeed to your friend's recovery. That's why I don't race crits and stay away from large group rides. There are too many yawwhos racing for nothing more than their ridiculous egos. Reminds me of this d'bag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMCkuqL9IcM

[pbarry]

Lots of power + weak handling skills = disaster.

[bcroslin]

Was your buddy behind him?
Needs more details atmo.
The pic can be misleading.

ps

arrange disorder

:o:D:rolleyes:
;):rolleyes::(
:D:D:D

I'm pretty sure I know who the person is in the photo and I've raced with him and I've never known him to be sketchy or out of control. He's been racing bikes longer than I've been riding them. I really think that the photographer caught something in 1/1000th of a second that looks bad but has a simple explanation. I have no clue what happened to cause the crash but I think there's more to this photo than a guy taking a corner in a crit like he's on a motox bike.

[PQJ]

Bike riding is dangerous. Bike racing is dangerous.

Wishing your friend a full and speedy recovery.

[e-RICHIE]

I'm pretty sure I know who the person is in the photo and I've raced with him and I've never known him to be sketchy or out of control. He's been racing bikes longer than I've been riding them. I really think that the photographer caught something in 1/1000th of a second that looks bad but has a simple explanation. I have no clue what happened to cause the crash but I think there's more to this photo than a guy taking a corner in a crit like he's on a motox bike.

It's a picture. The guy is getting judged from a freeze-frame atmo. I feel badly that someone was hurt in a crash. But if we're just using the image as a driver, I see the only two people in the corner on hoods while all around them are in the drops. I see a corner full of turf or a curb coming up, and it's hidden behind some of the riders. And I also see the guilty party (sic) on the inside looking like he might be running out of available real estate because the only other fellow in the picture not in the drops is leaning over at a more extreme angle and possibly squeezing him in. It's a pic. That's what I see. I wouldn't trust a frame to make a case against him. Dan Martin came into the last corner of L-B-L and biffed. Shiet happens.

[EDS]

It's a picture. The guy is getting judged from a freeze-frame atmo. I feel badly that someone was hurt in a crash. But if we're just using the image as a driver, I see the only two people in the corner on hoods while all around them are in the drops. I see a corner full of turf or a curb coming up, and it's hidden behind some of the riders. And I also see the guilty party (sic) on the inside looking like he might be running out of available real estate because the only other fellow in the picture not in the drops is leaning over at a more extreme angle and possibly squeezing him in. It's a pic. That's what I see. I wouldn't trust a frame to make a case against him. Dan Martin came into the last corner of L-B-L and biffed. Shiet happens.

Exactly. Racing and life aren't always pretty.

As an aside, I think the tendency of people, whether it be on a bike forum, sitting around the water-cooler at work or in the media, to arm-chair quarterback situations based on incomplete facts is more deserving of arm-chair QBing than the issue/incident people were originally focused on.

[e-RICHIE]

Exactly. Racing and life aren't always pretty.

As an aside, I think the tendency of people, whether it be on a bike forum, sitting around the water-cooler at work or in the media, to arm-chair quarterback situations based on incomplete facts is more deserving of arm-chair QBing than the issue/incident people were originally focused on.

For what do we live, but to make sport for our
neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn atmo?!

ps

arrange disorder

:rolleyes::):D
:rolleyes::):(
:mad::D;)

[majorpat]

Broke my collarbone twice (same one) playing lacrosse. Will heal fast but that figure eight dealio is a hassle. Best to him.

[djg21]

Exactly. Racing and life aren't always pretty.

As an aside, I think the tendency of people, whether it be on a bike forum, sitting around the water-cooler at work or in the media, to arm-chair quarterback situations based on incomplete facts is more deserving of arm-chair QBing than the issue/incident people were originally focused on.

Given the angle of the bike of the rider to the right of the "unclipped" rider and his facial expression, it looks like something may have been happening in front of them.

[shovelhd]

Was your buddy behind him?
Needs more details atmo.
The pic can be misleading.


Yes they can. I bet you could count on one hand the times you've intentionally unclipped in the middle of a corner.

[e-RICHIE]

Yes they can. I bet you could count on one hand the times you've intentionally unclipped in the middle of a corner.

Like I wrote above, from the picture, we have two - and two only - cats in the middle of the turn who are on the hoods when all around them are on the drops. And of the two, the guilty cat on the inside could be getting squeezed by the American Flag to his right who's clearly leaning over way more so than he is. And of course, you can see that the curb/corner is right there too. We just don't know, but I wouldn't use this image to broad stroke the man's bicycle handling ability any more than I would use the last 200 meters of L-B-L to do the same of Dan Martin.

[LegendRider]

.

[e-RICHIE]

I posted the picture because I found it ironic that the rider who indisputably caused a serious crash was photographed in the same race doing something highly unusual. He may have had a very good reason for unclipping and this is an unflattering coincidence - I don't know.

How did he cause the crash, by going into the last corner too hot (think, Dan Martin on Sunday)?
Why was your pal behind him? Was he behind him? Like I wrote, all I see is one freeze frame image.
I hope your pal heals fast atmo.

[avalonracing]

I posted the picture because I found it ironic that the rider who indisputably caused a serious crash was photographed in the same race doing something highly unusual. He may have had a very good reason for unclipping and this is an unflattering coincidence - I don't know.

So is the picture not from the actual incident where your friend was injured?

[LegendRider]

.

[e-RICHIE]

A first hand account by another friend in the race:
I saw a guy in a yellow jersey come up inside left before the corner impossibly fast. Impossibly because I thought "how is he going so fast, I can barely hold the wheel in front" and because his speed and line were a disaster in the making. Sound of metal and carbon and flesh and barriers, and a brief glimpse of a teammates' kit involved. I ducked inside and made it through, and came around after the finish to find yellow jersey guy apologizing after the finish.

It does sound like he's guilty of everything and then some atmo. And just because the quoted cat couldn't hold his wheel doesn't mean much to me. Had he (the guilty one) made it, no one would have said boo. But if you plan on winning, you have to lay it all out there. Dan Martin tried for the double Sunday and he biffed. Man, there are images and flicks all over the net, and he took himself out. Imagine where he'd be hiding if someone was on his wheel. To me, as a racer, it all sounds like conjecture. Your pal will heal, he'll get new parts, and I am sure all of this guys will race and laugh again.

[gavingould]

^ true 'nuf. hard to tell enough from a single shot etc. if the guy's a dangerous rider, those who ride/race with him should sort it out. getting shelled out the back of a crit once was enough for me, I stick to cx nowadays.

[oldfatslow]

All, if you could open the apperature a bit you'd see the gunman on the grassy knoll funded by the mafia and directed by Fidel loyalists still afoot in Havana.

[campy man]

Look at the 2 guys behind him wearing red jerseys and white helmets ... holy smokes!

[coylifut]

am I the only one here who accepts this outcome as a very real possibility every time you pin on a number?

God speed to the injured.

[William]

am I the only one here who accepts this outcome as a very real possibility every time you pin on a number?

God speed to the injured.

No. Crit riding is a blast, but it can also be very dangerous. It's the chance you take when you line up at the start line. The peloton is usually pretty good about verbally and occasionally physically letting a sketchy rider know where to go. I can remember one District Crit championship where they were running a cat 1, 2, & 3 field where a guy was too hot coming into a corner and went bouncing through the group like a pinball. Amazingly no one went down, but he was quickly rebuked and he stayed in the back after that. That was scary. Unless you're a pro, no one is getting paid to race. They do it for fun and they all have work and families to go back to. Have fun, but protect yourself.

That said, I agree, you can't really tell much from that one shot.






William

[paredown]

am I the only one here who accepts this outcome as a very real possibility every time you pin on a number?

God speed to the injured.

Nope.

My 20 year old self wasn't very clear about this, but I am now. When I think of the mayhem that was the Gastown crit BITD....

*shakes head*

[jpw]

why i never race.

[commonguy001]

I've raced enough crits to know that coming into a corner hot on the inside pulling a tripod isn't anywhere near normal not to mention sitting on the hoods while doing it. Trying to make up places by taking a bad and unsafe line while carrying too much speed is a perfect recipe for what happened. Best case the guy getting passed gets his front wheel swept and pushed to the gutter. If you’re that fast learn how to ride at the front without getting pushed back.

It's a crap move and these guys are old enough that he either needs to know better or quit endangering other riders for his coveted 15th place in a masters crit. Sure there are risks but if that’s the type of move that caused the crash it’s really too bad as it’s totally preventable by just using your head.

[oldpotatoe]

Why I stopped 'racing'....3-4 turn, industrial park, .9 mile, 45 minutes plus a lap, type stuff...

When in CA, I only 'raced' one true road race..and one circuit race..9 mile circuit. The rest were Sunday industrial park crits..harder now methinks to organize a road or circuit race, to close the roads, for a true circuit or road race..too many whiners and NIMBY-ers.

[e-RICHIE]

Every picture tells a story atmo. So far, this one has told about forty. Maybe the guy was worried that the red/white/blue cat was about to squeeze him into the curb that's coming up, obscured in the photo by the rider in front of them. These two certainly have a different lean angle, stance, and upper body position than all around them. Maybe it's the other cat who was reckless, and the mishap at the finish is completely unrelated to the image in the OP. Maybe is good enough for me.

[zap]

Why I stopped 'racing'....3-4 turn, industrial park, .9 mile, 45 minutes plus a lap, type stuff...



I enjoyed some crit races, notably around the White House ellipse, but many are rather boring and too short. Many are capable of going really hard for a short period of time and my body is better suited (never mind that I won my first crit in a sprint) to 5 hour long events. I quit racing crits shortly after my 2nd crash-potential clients are suspicious of folks with visible wounds.

I only raced TT sand hill climbs since.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

This illustrates why I feel so strongly that USAC should eliminate the one day license and require mandatory rider training as part of the Cat5 program. I just became a Category C official. I cannot upgrade to a category B for at least a year and must be mentored in at least 11 different areas before I get to make any decisions. We train our officials, we should train our riders.

^^^ this. I'm just Cat IV pack fodder most of the time, but it's scary to see some of the stuff folks do on the course. And I haven't seen much improvement in racers' bike handling skills from Cat V to Cat IV. I don't want to create barriers to new folks joining the sport, but racing is dangerous stuff, and I want to make it to work on Monday.

[fiataccompli]

Adding my hopes for a speedy & uncomplicated recovery. Sounds like a lot of conjecture based on one photo. I know people who drop an inside foot on turns a la motoX and those I know actually are not otherwise scary riders/racers. Seems odd to me, but I'm not the arbiter of cycling cornering standards either. One thought that came to my mind (and may not apply to this race considering the size of field and maybe experience -????? - of racers) is that in crits I have found it disconcerting when the group all is taking an absolutely terrible line through a turn or sequence of turns and you feel somewhat forced to follow that line lest become the subject of this thread's conjecture next time around.

On my very first crit race, I followed a guy who wasn't dropping a foot, but was cornering like he was in MotoGP (well, not dragging any knees, but dang low)....for the entire race I had an eye on him because he was both very strong & very sketchy in corners. On the last lap I was on his wheel preparing for the right moment to swing around and sprint to a finish (surely 1st in my mind, of course) & it was on that lap he finally leaned (or pedaled while leaning & thus shifted his weight) too far and his front wheel came out from under him. I crashed into him and the guy behind me hit me. I broke my bars & the guy behind me broke his fork. DNF (though I was in the process of getting back on my bike to try to finish when I realized I only had half a handlebar). My 15 yr old son was ready to kill the guy who crashed, but I explained to him I knew the risk. Further, I knew he was sketchy in the corners, but I chose to follow him because I wanted to win. To my thinking, my part was my fault. I knew better, but got caught up in the moment. I was lucky that some epoxy & carbon fiber was all that got broken that day. Oh, and the guy who crashed is now a team mate & friend...and he corners better too these days!

[Joachim]

Further, I knew he was sketchy in the corners, but I chose to follow him

This is the biggest issue I've seen in racing, especially the lower categories (I'm talking general here, but quoting your post, since you've mentioned it). Recognizing the danger is 50%, avoiding it is the other 50%.

[EvanTA]

I like racing crits, but there are way too many morons who want to win in the corners. Spots are so fluid that it doesn't really make a lot of sense to throw that much risk at nipping one person who - let's assume you passed on the inside and then have to go wide - can immediately pass you again on the inside and now have a better path to carry the momentum. I try to stick to single file in a corner, even if it means losing a few spots. Keeping it fluid means carrying your speed through and onto that straight, and probably picking up more spots then. How 'winning' of a strategy is it if you're yourself out at least once a year, as well as a few others on top of that?

If you want to get your cornering nut, do a cross race. the wrecks are typically not as disastrous. or, go ride some xc

[c-record]

Funny because my first thought was that he's totally rear-wheel turning ala supermotard stuff. Some of those guys are crazy fast through corners.

Hope that guy never gets on a motorcycle. That move is the quick route to hamburgerville.

[redir]

I agree it's hard to tell whats going on in that pic. If the guy was unclipping on every corner then that's another story. I remember one 'crash' I was in the whole field crashed to the right and as one guy tried to come out of it his pedal came into my front wheel. I unclipped my left foot and proceeded to slide on my cleat for about 100ft before I stopped. Cleat was burned right down to the sole of the shoe but I never crashed hahah. I wish some one had pics of that !.

[mister]

heh, look at the guys face two red jerseys behind white and yellow dude...
wonder what was going on.

also, i guess he should be glad it wasn't worse than a collarbone snap.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/cyclist-paralyzed-in-austin-bike-race-crash-weeks-/nfjKn/

[Hindmost]

A first hand account by another friend in the race:
I saw a guy in a yellow jersey come up inside left before the corner impossibly fast.

Ahhh. The old "Inside!"-"Inside!"-move.

The unclipped guy in the picture is also off the saddle with his body shifted forward, no? I don't know how he is doing it.

[bcroslin]

^^^ this. I'm just Cat IV pack fodder most of the time, but it's scary to see some of the stuff folks do on the course. And I haven't seen much improvement in racers' bike handling skills from Cat V to Cat IV. I don't want to create barriers to new folks joining the sport, but racing is dangerous stuff, and I want to make it to work on Monday.

It happens across all categories. There was a big crash in last year's Tampa Twighlight in the pro 1-2 field when a dude decided to sweep from the outside to the inside in one of the corners in the middle of the race. Some people are always looking to find an advantage and are willing to put their bodies on the line. You have to make peace with that every time you line up to race.

btw - still no word from the rider in the photo but the consensus in the FB group I posted the photo in with several people who know him and one team mate is that the foot down was to avoid going down in the corner. He's been tagged in the photo so I'm sure we'll hear from him at some point.

[e-RICHIE]

btw - still no word from the rider in the photo but the consensus in the FB group I posted the photo in with several people who know him and one team mate is that the foot down was to avoid going down in the corner. He's been tagged in the photo so I'm sure we'll hear from him at some point.

That ^ works here atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::cool::rolleyes:
:cool::cool:;)
;);):rolleyes:

[FastforaSlowGuy]

It happens across all categories. There was a big crash in last year's Tampa Twighlight in the pro 1-2 field when a dude decided to sweep from the outside to the inside in one of the corners in the middle of the race. Some people are always looking to find an advantage and are willing to put their bodies on the line. You have to make peace with that every time you line up to race.

btw - still no word from the rider in the photo but the consensus in the FB group I posted the photo in with several people who know him and one team mate is that the foot down was to avoid going down in the corner. He's been tagged in the photo so I'm sure we'll hear from him at some point.

I accept the risk that some guys will do stupid things to win a sprint for 18th, or whatever. But I'd hope those guys know that they're putting their skin (and others') on the line. What worries me more are the ones who don't know that they're doing stupid stuff. I was in a road race last year with a guy who swerved a foot to the left every time he stood up out of the saddle. When told to hold his line, he had no idea what we were talking about. Finishing 10 races to advance to Cat 4 should be half the test, and it should come along with passing a pack-riding skills clinic.

[bcroslin]

I accept the risk that some guys will do stupid things to win a sprint for 18th, or whatever. But I'd hope those guys know that they're putting their skin (and others') on the line. What worries me more are the ones who don't know that they're doing stupid stuff. I was in a road race last year with a guy who swerved a foot to the left every time he stood up out of the saddle. When told to hold his line, he had no idea what we were talking about. Finishing 10 races to advance to Cat 4 should be half the test, and it should come along with passing a pack-riding skills clinic.

Funny because I'm a cat 4 on the road and everyone told me after doing my 10 cat 5 races and placing in one or two that I needed to move up because 4 was so much safer. So I move up and so do all the other sketchy cat 5's. So I do a few cat 4 races and everyone tells me I need to move up to cat 3 because it's so much safer but after a top 10 finish where half the field went down and another race where I just wasn't comfortable with the abilities of those around me I decided my crit racing days were over. So then a season later several of my friends cat up to 3's with the same sketchy bunch of Fred's who cat'ed up to 4's with me and the crashing continues. At some point you just have to acknowledge that there's crashing in racing. Happens in cat 5 and it happens in the grand tours.

I can tell you where it happens a lot less and that's mtb and CX racing. I'll be cat'ing up to the 2's in cx for next season and I still (knocking wood) haven't been tied up in an 8-man crash because some wheel sucker decided with 4 laps to go now is the time to sweep the corner and attack. I'll do the odd training crit and road race now and again but the risk vs. reward for crits makes no sense for me.

[William]

Funny because I'm a cat 4 on the road and everyone told me after doing my 10 cat 5 races and placing in one or two that I needed to move up because 4 was so much safer. So I move up and so do all the other sketchy cat 5's. So I do a few cat 4 races and everyone tells me I need to move up to cat 3 because it's so much safer but after a top 10 finish where half the field went down and another race where I just wasn't comfortable with the abilities of those around me I decided my crit racing days were over. So then a season later several of my friends cat up to 3's with the same sketchy bunch of Fred's who cat'ed up to 4's with me and the crashing continues. At some point you just have to acknowledge that there's crashing in racing. Happens in cat 5 and it happens in the grand tours.

I can tell you where it happens a lot less and that's mtb and CX racing. I'll be cat'ing up to the 2's in cx for next season and I still (knocking wood) haven't been tied up in an 8-man crash because some wheel sucker decided with 4 laps to go now is the time to sweep the corner and attack. I'll do the odd training crit and road race now and again but the risk vs. reward for crits makes no sense for me.

That's why when I was racing crits I had an unrelenting drive to stay toward the front. That way there's more bodies behind you and your chances of staying upright go way up. :)

I was lucking in that when I started racing in College we had a few high level guys on the team (Cat 1 State Champs and National Jr. riders) and in the area that rode with us and helped out everyone to become better riders with tips on training rides and multiple training clinics. I was already a good bike handler and had experience bumping in close quarters at speed, but I needed to learn a thing or two about riding in Pacelines and big groups. By the time race season started we were all very comfortable out there.

That said, some mandatory clinics wouldn't be a bad thing for new riders to get their racing license.









William

[shovelhd]

That ^ works here atmo.


I'd like to hear what he has to say. As I mentioned before I've ridden with some of those guys and they were just fine. I just don't see the need to unclip. There are a lot of better options than taking away one of your five points of stability.

[e-RICHIE]

I'd like to hear what he has to say. As I mentioned before I've ridden with some of those guys and they were just fine. I just don't see the need to unclip. There are a lot of better options than taking away one of your five points of stability.

I mentioned a possible explanation re the why the need about three times in my replies atmo.

[redir]

Tell ya what, imho, there is an incentive for racers to make stupid and dangerous moves in crits. If I crash I get a free lap... Yay!

Get rid of that stupid free lap rule!

[bcroslin]

Tell ya what, imho, there is an incentive for racers to make stupid and dangerous moves in crits. If I crash I get a free lap... Yay!

Get rid of that stupid free lap rule!

Hard to take advantage of that free lap with a broken collar bone....

[54ny77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IrWhjzAVOo

[shovelhd]

I mentioned a possible explanation re the why the need about three times in my replies atmo.

Which I disagree with.

[e-RICHIE]

Which I disagree with.

I wasn't there. All I have is a cropped photo that shows one split second in time that the OP
uses to explain why the crash happened in the final lap. To me, there's no connection. Any
more of a determination of what we are looking at, or why the outcome was what it was, is
above my pay scale.

[LegendRider]

.

[e-RICHIE]

That's a mischaracterization of what I said, or tried to say. The crash on the final lap was not caused by the rider putting a foot down on an earlier lap - it was caused by his reckless riding. Posting the photo was meant to question his skill and judgement in a general sense. You're correct that it's difficult to extract a lot of meaning from a snapshot in time, but it appears the rider screwed up two of the ~30 laps in the crit. That raises questions ATMO.

I thought the pic was there to show the questionable cornering skills of the rider, so as to support the fact that his crash was a result of band bicycle handling. If he went too hot into a last turn and crashed, then that's what happened. Without seeing it, or a video, all we have here is a freeze frame observation of someone who was trying to hold his wheel. Crashes in the last K happen all the time. It's a fact of life at the front of all races, not only crits, or age-graded crits, or events with low level categories.

The fact that the image provided is general, or vague at best, we really don't know why his foot is out. I posited about it several time above; it looks like the corner curb, concealed by the fellow in front of him, is coming up fast and he's getting squeezed into it by the guy to his right who is leaning over at a more extreme angle. That's what I see in the picture. Is putting a foot down the best way to deal with that? It's all about survival skill at that point atmo.

At the end of the day, my point continues to be that the wreck at the race's end and the picture shown can't have much to do with each other any more than a mined image of Dan Martin on the top step at L-B-L in 2013 has to do with a pic from Sunday with him face-planted, much to the surprise of all watching live.

I hope your pal is okay.

[Birddog]

I thought the pic was there to show the questionable cornering skills of the rider, so as to support the fact that his crash was a result of band bicycle handling. If he went too hot into a last turn and crashed, then that's what happened. Without seeing it, or a video, all we have here is a freeze frame observation of someone who was trying to hold his wheel. Crashes in the last K happen all the time. It's a fact of life at the front of all races, not only crits, or age-graded crits, or events with low level categories.

The fact that the image provided is general, or vague at best, we really don't know why his foot is out. I posited about it several time above; it looks like the corner curb, concealed by the fellow in front of him, is coming up fast and he's getting squeezed into it by the guy to his right who is leaning over at a more extreme angle. That's what I see in the picture. Is putting a foot down the best way to deal with that? It's all about survival skill at that point atmo.

At the end of the day, my point continues to be that the wreck at the race's end and the picture shown can't have much to do with each other any more than a mined image of Dan Martin on the top step at L-B-L in 2013 has to do with a pic from Sunday with him face-planted, much to the surprise of all watching live.

I hope your pal is okay.
That makes way too much sense. Correlation is not the same as causation. Where the hell is Gandino?

[bcroslin]

Speaking of crashing I just heard from a friend in ABQ that 80 racers were involved in a crash at the Tour of Gila in NM a few hours ago. One rider was airlifted. The tour's twitter feed (https://twitter.com/TouroftheGila) is blowing up.

[e-RICHIE]

That makes way too much sense. Correlation is not the same as causation. Where the hell is Gandino?

Transmission is not the same as tradition.
We'll always have Gandino atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:):):p
:):p:rolleyes:
;);):)

[LegendRider]

.

[Jgrooms]

Roswell - the next day.



The rider apologized to my friend and I'm not trying to publicly shame him. But, the consequences of poor decisions in a bike race can be severe for others, in addition to yourself. Furthermore, these guys have families and full-time jobs - they shouldn't be taking crazy risks.


Seriously? "...not trying..." As has been said repeatedly...its a bike race stuff happens and pain killers might be needed.

A classic example of the age of everyone has a cell phone camera and a forum to spout on gone bad. I debate to bump it ...

[LegendRider]

.

[savine]

Bike racing ain't a walk in the park...... Unfortunately these things do happen and I take it that everyone who's had a pop at the fella has never made a mistake in a race. In my opinion I think it's a bit low to stick a photo up of someone who can't answer for themselves but that's just my opinion..... please carry on.

[Jgrooms]

Do you have a point or are you just preening?


My point is as clear as the agenda you are "not trying" to drive.

[pbarry]

Was your buddy behind him?
Needs more details atmo.
The pic can be misleading.

That ^ works here atmo.




Judgement before prosecution, or [first hand], defense. :rolleyes:

[e-RICHIE]

Judgement before prosecussion, [or first hand], defense. :rolleyes:

Is Judgement before prosecussion some Buddy Rich reference?

[pbarry]

Was your buddy behind him?
Needs more details atmo.
The pic can be misleading.

ps

arrange disorder

:o:D:rolleyes:
;):rolleyes::(
:D:D:D

Is Judgement before prosecussion some Buddy Rich reference?

No. Not my favorite jazz drummer, but he had his points and extended the audience.. Back to the op: You're on your own here with your posted perspective/take on things. No dog in this race but enjoy a good turn-about anyday.

[e-RICHIE]

No. Not my favorite jazz drummer, but he had his points and extended the audience.. Back to the op: You're on your own here with your posted perspective/take on things. No dog in this race but enjoy a good turn-about anyday.

We sign the release, pin on the number, and take a chance. I'm a licensed Cat 2 Road, Track, and CX and that's all I got.
Plus my experience. Plus the image in the OP. Plus the conjecture that came with it. I know as much about why the crash
happened as anyone else here does. And the picture tells me nothing about the crash that followed. Later atmo.

[fiataccompli]

I looked at the photo and had some things to say about how that rider parked his car before the race, but maybe I'll just keep them to myself. .haha

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[pbarry]

We sign the release, pin on the number, and take a chance. I'm a licensed Cat 2 Road, Track, and CX and that's all I got.
Plus my experience. Plus the image in the OP. Plus the conjecture that came with it. I know as much about why the crash
happened as anyone else here does. And the picture tells me nothing about the crash that followed. Later atmo.

Yeah, yeah, we all know your bonafides/palmares.. I'm busting you on your first reply to this thread vs. your last post here before our exchange. We can talk about the Jones brothers If that is more comfortable.

[Vientomas]

You guys are still talking about this?

[Tandem Rider]

You guys are still talking about this?

Heck no, I'm on my second round of popcorn, got any skittles?

[93legendti]

I guess we were all just supposed to pile on the "offending" rider and ruin him online?

[oldpotatoe]

I guess we were all just supposed to pile on the "offending" rider and ruin him online?

bet he don't care...

[snah]

Heck no, I'm on my second round of popcorn, got any skittles?

Best post in this whole thread!!:hello::hello:

[LegendRider]

I deleted all my posts in this thread since it has been interpreted as judgement before prosecution, attempting to smear a rider's reputation, etc. That was not my intent.

I'm fully aware of the dangers of racing - I'm a Cat 2 who has had a license since 1990. I've broken my collarbone in a race. I've also broken my hip in a fluke accident that resulted in an ambulance ride, two surgeries, a morphine pump, etc. I simply want folks to be safe and not take foolish risks that endanger others.

[shovelhd]

Just blow the whole thread. It was misinterpreted from the get go.

[Bruce K]

Blessed are they who run around in circles for they shall be known as wheels

I think this has run it's course

BK