If........

[David Kirk]

If you were a framebuilder and you had a NOS Serotta Colorado BB shell and some NOS Campy drops what would you make?

dave

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2914/14050856241_8c002e45c3_b.jpg

[dsimon]

a Kick ass sloped Tube CSI...................

[William]

a Kick ass level Tube CSI...................









William:):):)

[William]

Wait, wouldn't that be a "KSI"?;);)








William

[MattTuck]

A sweet profit by selling it on ebay. If you had a headtube sticker, then you may start planning your retirement ;)

[avalonracing]

A sandwich. Then I'd put those on a shelf and make another sandwich.

[bicycletricycle]

Sloping fillet csi, gotta get an engraved serotta crown for it to work though.

[David Kirk]

A sweet profit by selling it on ebay. If you had a headtube sticker, then you may start planning your retirement ;)

Like this?

dave

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5284/14074452353_218050ec1c_b.jpg

[54ny77]

Sell it to this guy for a ton of cash, I'm sure he'll make good use out of it.

http://crazyhyena.com/imagebank/g/world-most-crazy-pierced-man.jpeg

[texbike]

An ashtray, a couple of bottle openers, and a couple of key chains.

You can't make anything cool and carbon out of that crap!

Texbike

[phcollard]

Seriously Dave do you have matching Colorado tubing for those things? Or can a std tubeset be shaped? How does it work? :)

[blessthismess]

That dude would be so much cooler if he had chains connecting everything. ear to nose etc.etc.

[druptight]

I hope this thread ends with you showing us something really awesome you made out of those....

[David Kirk]

Seriously Dave do you have matching Colorado tubing for those things? Or can a std tubeset be shaped? How does it work? :)

I've got a line on some NOS Colorado tubes and S bend c-stays so if it all comes together something might go together.

dave

[54ny77]

some prefer a level top tube.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/hardcore-piercing.jpg

That dude would be so much cooler if he had chains connecting everything. ear to nose etc.etc.

[phcollard]

I've got a line on some NOS Colorado tubes and S bend c-stays so if it all comes together something might go together.

dave

Woah. You're the man. Make it something very special then but what would be the name on the downtube of this "otherwise Serotta"? I know a few forum members who would sell their mother in law for a CSi revisited by you. Heck I could even sell mine!

[93legendti]

A cross between a JKS Terraplane and CSi

[fiamme red]

I would make a classic Huffy.

http://cyclefit.co.uk/uploads/huffy.jpg

[David Kirk]

Woah. You're the man. Make it something very special then but what would be the name on the downtube of this "otherwise Serotta"? I know a few forum members who would sell their mother in law for a CSi revisited by you. Heck I could even sell mine!

I have access to Serotta decals but feel it would be wrong to use them. It would not be a Serotta any way you cut it. A Serotta was built in a certain place and time and both are now gone. It would not be a Serotta, nor would it really be a replica, it would be more of an homage.

If I can make it work out I'd like to build a VERY few homage bikes that are like the first Colorados I made while there in 1990...........1/2 fillet BB's and 1/2 fillet upper headtube/top tube joint, S bend stays, inverted double taper s-stays..........the full monty.

Fun stuff to think about on a cold winter day - we got about 8" of snow last night!

dave

[David Kirk]

I would make a classic Huffy.

http://cyclefit.co.uk/uploads/huffy.jpg


I love those but they are not 'Colorados' - they are straight tubed bikes and really boil down more to the paint job than anything else.

I always wanted a Huffy like that.

dave

[Elefantino]

A 62x59, level top tube bike.

Painted white with gold accents by JB.

Get some gold "Marinoni" decals. Cut off the last two letters. Apply generously.

Then give me a call. :D

PS: 73 x 73 angles is good. Steel fork.

[parris]

Oh you evil beautiful sneak!!!!!!!!!!

[Ralph]

I suppose there is a market for anything Serotta, so am sure a project like that would sell out. However....to me.....your reputation is so good, and what I've seen of your work....well founded, I don't see how it would add anything to a bike, over what you do already.

But do understand the business case for doing it. Maybe just build some "Dave Kirks" with Serotta BB shells and Campy drop outs, and the other stuff you mentioned to make them fancy. Made in Montana by Dave Kirk.

[SPOKE]

I think one of these would be a pretty sweet addition to my collection!

[parris]

Ralph I could be wrong but knowing Dave and where he came from I see it as a straight up tribute to the company, his coworkers, and especially Ben. If a project like this happens it seems super cool to me given how classy they would turn out. It may be time to save again!

[phcollard]

If I can make it work out I'd like to build a VERY few homage bikes that are like the first Colorados I made while there in 1990...........1/2 fillet BB's and 1/2 fillet upper headtube/top tube joint, S bend stays, inverted double taper s-stays..........the full monty.

Sounds like a great plan. A bit like vintage reissue guitars but made to today's standards - hey Gibson is in Bozeman too after all!

I would be genuinely interested. I'm a Serotta fan and I have lusted long enough for a Kirk... Please let's get in touch when you have more details.

[Ralph]

Ralph I could be wrong but knowing Dave and where he came from I see it as a straight up tribute to the company, his coworkers, and especially Ben. If a project like this happens it seems super cool to me given how classy they would turn out.

Yes.....I can see it as a tribute to his old company, and paying respects to what helped get him the reputation he currently has. And I guess that's what he said his intention would be.

I was looking at it as a bike for riding. Not meaning in any way to put down the idea, or insinuate any motives other than what he stated. Still.....the bikes have to sell.

[David Kirk]

I suppose there is a market for anything Serotta, so am sure a project like that would sell out. However....to me.....your reputation is so good, and what I've seen of your work....well founded, I don't see how it would add anything to a bike, over what you do already.

But do understand the business case for doing it. Maybe just build some "Dave Kirks" with Serotta BB shells and Campy drop outs, and the other stuff you mentioned to make them fancy. Made in Montana by Dave Kirk.

Hey Ralph -

I hear you.

If I do it it would be for two reasons - the first being that, like Parris said here, to pay homage to the time, the place and most of all the people that helped me get my start. Secondly it would be really fun to build a few of these again. I built hundreds of them back in the day and miss using some of the more obscure skills needed to build them.

So in a way it would be a selfish exercise...........but if someone wanted one I think the two of us could both have fun with the project.

Thanks for your thoughts and input.

dave

[biker72]

Dave, I really don't care what you make with the parts. I'd just like to see the end result.

[Ralph]

Hey Ralph -

I hear you.

If I do it it would be for two reasons - the first being that, like Parris said here, to pay homage to the time, the place and most of all the people that helped me get my start. Secondly it would be really fun to build a few of these again. I built hundreds of them back in the day and miss using some of the more obscure skills needed to build them.

So in a way it would be a selfish exercise...........but if someone wanted one I think the two of us could both have fun with the project.

Thanks for your thoughts and input.

dave

Do you think you would have any problem with trade marks? Surely someone owns the Serotta name. If no trade mark issues, and you could figure out what to call it, sounds like an interesting project.

Being an old guy, I do understand the idea behind paying some respect to those that helped you get where you are. And....maybe revisiting some of those old skills might be useful. And......not the least.....I'm sure the bikes would ride great. And building by request would make it work from a small businessman's point of view (which is how I look at a lot of things). Good luck! BTW.....Love Bozeman.

[dustyrider]

Neat...how about some kind of builder's camp/skool? Maybe one for paceliners, some kind of kick back to the forum... You know a true collaboration between builder(you) and dreamer(us). Of course I'm far from capable of affording something like this, but can see double the "worth" for the experience, and adds to the "soul" of a Serotta.

I imagine a csi with a 44mm headtube, drilled for electric, some would argue disc, but I'd disagree. You know just enough modern to raise a few feathers, without causing creaky crank sadness, and caliper brakes to stay retro grouchy!

[Climb01742]

Hey Ralph -

I hear you.

If I do it it would be for two reasons - the first being that, like Parris said here, to pay homage to the time, the place and most of all the people that helped me get my start. Secondly it would be really fun to build a few of these again. I built hundreds of them back in the day and miss using some of the more obscure skills needed to build them.

So in a way it would be a selfish exercise...........but if someone wanted one I think the two of us could both have fun with the project.

Thanks for your thoughts and input.

dave

Dave,

a. A very cool idea. Honoring your roots is awesome.

b. On a practical level, would the imagined frames perform/ride differently from the Kirk frames you build today? Would there be an on-the-road feel you'd be aiming to create/recreate? I ask, in part, because Dario built my wife a bike using one of his last Excell tube sets and details like a Campy double plate fork crown, and she raves about it, and I've always wished it was big enough so I could just ride it once to feel what an era-homage feels like. Do you have a 'feel' in mind for the frame?

c. If you do it, have fun!

[shovelhd]

I have access to Serotta decals but feel it would be wrong to use them. It would not be a Serotta any way you cut it. A Serotta was built in a certain place and time and both are now gone. It would not be a Serotta, nor would it really be a replica, it would be more of an homage.

If I can make it work out I'd like to build a VERY few homage bikes that are like the first Colorados I made while there in 1990...........1/2 fillet BB's and 1/2 fillet upper headtube/top tube joint, S bend stays, inverted double taper s-stays..........the full monty.

Fun stuff to think about on a cold winter day - we got about 8" of snow last night!

dave

This. Exactly this. Best of luck to you. I wish I could afford one of them.

[Ahneida Ride]

Dave

If you can get hold of the tubing, then you just may build the very last
CSI.

Kelly built the last factory CSI and since has built several in his
own shop (Serotta supplied the tubes/lugs/BB) at the request of Serotta.

The monster tube swagging box is still sitting there in the factory.
There is no staff there to use it.

My Best as always ....

[bikingshearer]

http://crazyhyena.com/imagebank/g/world-most-crazy-pierced-man.jpeg

Worst use of a bead-dazzler ever.


As for what to do with the stuff, anything you want. It is guaranteed to be cool, well-built and a joy to ride. it is also guaranteed to be beyond any budget I could ever cobble together (that is not a complaint, just an observation) so I would only be able to worship it from afar. Which I will.

[regularguy412]

Like this?

dave

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5284/14074452353_218050ec1c_b.jpg

Holy Crap! I could use that sticker. When I last had my 25th Anniversary CSI resprayed at Serotta, they didn't have ( or couldn't get ) any of those stickers. So mine now has a Made in USA sticker on the lower, front seat tube.

Mike in AR:beer:

[pbarry]

Dave,

a. A very cool idea. Honoring your roots is awesome.

b. On a practical level, would the imagined frames perform/ride differently from the Kirk frames you build today? Would there be an on-the-road feel you'd be aiming to create/recreate? I ask, in part, because Dario built my wife a bike using one of his last Excell tube sets and details like a Campy double plate fork crown, and she raves about it, and I've always wished it was big enough so I could just ride it once to feel what an era-homage feels like. Do you have a 'feel' in mind for the frame?

c. If you do it, have fun!

I've test ridden a custom GF frame/bike I built with a 17cm stem and mtb seat post installed for my ride. It was rewarding to get an idea of ride quality and worth the time to find out. From all reports, Excell was the pinnacle of steel tubing for lightweight riders.

[metalheart]

I would call Dave Kirk and ask him to build me the Colorado I used to dream about having in the late 80's.

[David Kirk]

Dave,

a. A very cool idea. Honoring your roots is awesome.

b. On a practical level, would the imagined frames perform/ride differently from the Kirk frames you build today? Would there be an on-the-road feel you'd be aiming to create/recreate? I ask, in part, because Dario built my wife a bike using one of his last Excell tube sets and details like a Campy double plate fork crown, and she raves about it, and I've always wished it was big enough so I could just ride it once to feel what an era-homage feels like. Do you have a 'feel' in mind for the frame?

c. If you do it, have fun!

Cool.

Yes I'm sure the homage bikes would ride differently than what I currently offer. I build with a lot of very light modern tubes that are much thinner than anything Serotta ever offered and this means that the homage bike would be a bit heavier and not quite as smooth on the road.

Much of the feel on a bike is dictated by the tube wall thickness - by far the biggest influence is diameter but after that wall thickness comes into play. Modern tubes like 953 can be so thin because the material is so strong and these thin main tubes are still plenty stiff but they transmit much less shock than the thicker tubes from even 10 years ago. Many folks think 'steel is steel' and that bikes made from modern materials will feel the same as the steel bike they rode way back in the day and that just isn't the way it is. It's still called steel but the ride is different and to my taste better now.

Your JKS uses a mix of 953 and 853 pro and I'll bet it doesn't feel much at all like a bike built of SL or SLX yet they are both steel.

So the difference between my current offerings and an homage bike would be many and the biggest change in feel would come from the difference in wall thickness.

Make sense?

dave

[David Kirk]

Holy Crap! I could use that sticker. When I last had my 25th Anniversary CSI resprayed at Serotta, they didn't have ( or couldn't get ) any of those stickers. So mine now has a Made in USA sticker on the lower, front seat tube.

Mike in AR:beer:

This is not a sticker but is a stick on metal head badge. I helped design the badge and they were made by 'Joe the badgeman' for Serotta. We had a few extras made and i've had one in my best for the past 20 years or so.

Do you still have the headbadge that came with the bike?

dave

[David Kirk]

Neat...how about some kind of builder's camp/skool? Maybe one for paceliners, some kind of kick back to the forum... You know a true collaboration between builder(you) and dreamer(us). Of course I'm far from capable of affording something like this, but can see double the "worth" for the experience, and adds to the "soul" of a Serotta.

I imagine a csi with a 44mm headtube, drilled for electric, some would argue disc, but I'd disagree. You know just enough modern to raise a few feathers, without causing creaky crank sadness, and caliper brakes to stay retro grouchy!



I dunno about this - a CSi is/was defined by a few different things IMO.........first was of course the materials (which not only dictate the ride but also the look) and next was the group of guys that made the bikes in a given place and time. I think if it wasn't made by those guys, in that building, with those parts then it's not a 'real' CSi. It might be every bit as nice a bike but by definition it's not a CSi.

So if you change the fundamental design of the bike with a big head tube and disc brakes it's even further away from a CSi and all you have at that point is a decal that says 'CSi' on it and not much more.

FWIW - I built about 60 lugged and filleted Serottas from here in Bozeman using Carl Strong's shop. Serotta sent me the parts and I turned them into framesets and sent them back. They were built by a guy who built about as many steel Serottas as anyone else ever has (yes me) so I certainly knew how they went together. They were made with the right stuff and were painted in the right place and had the right decals on them but in my mind they were not the same as a CSi made in NY. Not better, not worse, but not the same as they weren't made under the same circumstances.

I realize this might not make sense to others but to me a thing is defined by certain things and when you change any of those things it's not the same thing any more.

dave

[Asudef]

Is the CSi the evolution of the Colorado? I'm not fully aware of the differences in models.

Either way, I've always resonated most with "the best available with the traditions of the time" designs.

If it were up to me, carbon fork with 1 1/8" steerer and the best tubing available. I don't suppose stainless would be able to mate with the cast bb shell and dropouts.

[regularguy412]

This is not a sticker but is a stick on metal head badge. I helped design the badge and they were made by 'Joe the badgeman' for Serotta. We had a few extras made and i've had one in my best for the past 20 years or so.

Do you still have the headbadge that came with the bike?

dave

My CSI came with just the Serotta 'S' decal no real 'head badge'. The decal that was not replaced was the two-tone (half and half reversed) 25th anniversary insignia that looked exactly like the badge in the pic-- except that it was done up in light/dark blues. The 'missing' decal was originally located just above the BB on the front of the seat tube. It's not such a huge deal, but I was kinda disappointed that my 25th anniversary bike no longer had the identifying mark.

Thanks for your input. I just thot I'd never see anything like that again, since it's been so long since the bike was originally built.

Thanks again,
Mike in AR:beer:

[pbarry]

I dunno about this - a CSi is/was defined by a few different things IMO.........first was of course the materials (which not only dictate the ride but also the look) and next was the group of guys that made the bikes in a given place and time. I think if it wasn't made by those guys, in that building, with those parts then it's not a 'real' CSi. It might be every bit as nice a bike but by definition it's not a CSi.

So if you change the fundamental design of the bike with a big head tube and disc brakes it's even further away from a CSi and all you have at that point is a decal that says 'CSi' on it and not much more.

FWIW - I built about 60 lugged and filleted Serottas from here in Bozeman using Carl Strong's shop. Serotta sent me the parts and I turned them into framesets and sent them back. They were built by a guy who built about as many steel Serottas as anyone else ever has (yes me) so I certainly knew how they went together. They were made with the right stuff and were painted in the right place and had the right decals on them but in my mind they were not the same as a CSi made in NY. Not better, not worse, but not the same as they weren't made under the same circumstances.

I realize this might not make sense to others but to me a thing is defined by certain things and when you change any of those things it's not the same thing any more.

dave

Big props, Dave. A genuine manifesto written by a philosopher and artisan.

[fogrider]

Cool.

Yes I'm sure the homage bikes would ride differently than what I currently offer. I build with a lot of very light modern tubes that are much thinner than anything Serotta ever offered and this means that the homage bike would be a bit heavier and not quite as smooth on the road.

Much of the feel on a bike is dictated by the tube wall thickness - by far the biggest influence is diameter but after that wall thickness comes into play. Modern tubes like 953 can be so thin because the material is so strong and these thin main tubes are still plenty stiff but they transmit much less shock than the thicker tubes from even 10 years ago. Many folks think 'steel is steel' and that bikes made from modern materials will feel the same as the steel bike they rode way back in the day and that just isn't the way it is. It's still called steel but the ride is different and to my taste better now.

Your JKS uses a mix of 953 and 853 pro and I'll bet it doesn't feel much at all like a bike built of SL or SLX yet they are both steel.

So the difference between my current offerings and an homage bike would be many and the biggest change in feel would come from the difference in wall thickness.

Make sense?

dave

Dave, I'm sure someone will want a "homage" frame/bike, but what would they do with it? and would you put kirk decals on it? what would you call it? would it ridden on ice cream rides?

Every weekend, how many lost souls are rolling on carbon bikes that weigh under 18 pounds, some under 16 pounds. why not take those parts and weld them up with 953 and 853 tubing and build a ride that is as good as anything else you build today? sure make something that looks like a CSI or a colorado, but it should be a great riding bike that someone would want to ride hard today! wouldn't that really pay homage to those parts?

[RudAwkning]

I dunno about this - a CSi is/was defined by a few different things IMO.........first was of course the materials (which not only dictate the ride but also the look) and next was the group of guys that made the bikes in a given place and time. I think if it wasn't made by those guys, in that building, with those parts then it's not a 'real' CSi. It might be every bit as nice a bike but by definition it's not a CSi.

So if you change the fundamental design of the bike with a big head tube and disc brakes it's even further away from a CSi and all you have at that point is a decal that says 'CSi' on it and not much more.

FWIW - I built about 60 lugged and filleted Serottas from here in Bozeman using Carl Strong's shop. Serotta sent me the parts and I turned them into framesets and sent them back. They were built by a guy who built about as many steel Serottas as anyone else ever has (yes me) so I certainly knew how they went together. They were made with the right stuff and were painted in the right place and had the right decals on them but in my mind they were not the same as a CSi made in NY. Not better, not worse, but not the same as they weren't made under the same circumstances.

I realize this might not make sense to others but to me a thing is defined by certain things and when you change any of those things it's not the same thing any more.

dave

The bike won't be a CSi. It won't even be a Serotta. But it can have the heart and soul of one. You should take those signature pieces and build a CSI as you would envision it would be built today with the best of what's available now. Isn't that what you guys set out to do when designing the first CSi? Making the best steel bike possible?

[victoryfactory]

Dave;

Get with Kelly and Dave W. share the build chores as a group.
Get Ben to sign it. Auction it off at NAHBS. Donate the proceeds to
the charity of your choice.
I say this without actual knowledge of the personalities or politics that
may be involved so please pardon me if there is any oil/ water thing
with the people mentioned or omitted. I'm just looking at this from an
innocent pov that would solidify and focus a great bicycle legacy, be fun,
help a charity and be great pr.

VF

[oldpotatoe]

Do you think you would have any problem with trade marks? Surely someone owns the Serotta name. If no trade mark issues, and you could figure out what to call it, sounds like an interesting project.

Being an old guy, I do understand the idea behind paying some respect to those that helped you get where you are. And....maybe revisiting some of those old skills might be useful. And......not the least.....I'm sure the bikes would ride great. And building by request would make it work from a small businessman's point of view (which is how I look at a lot of things). Good luck! BTW.....Love Bozeman.

I doubt it...Mark Nobilette made me a frame with a Cinelli BB shell, so I could get the far superior Italian threading..but it was a Nobilette, not a 'Cinelli'..

It would still be a 'Kirk', even with a serotta BB shell..IMHO.

[David Kirk]

Dave, I'm sure someone will want a "homage" frame/bike, but what would they do with it? and would you put kirk decals on it? what would you call it? would it ridden on ice cream rides?

Every weekend, how many lost souls are rolling on carbon bikes that weigh under 18 pounds, some under 16 pounds. why not take those parts and weld them up with 953 and 853 tubing and build a ride that is as good as anything else you build today? sure make something that looks like a CSI or a colorado, but it should be a great riding bike that someone would want to ride hard today! wouldn't that really pay homage to those parts?

I think i understand your point.

I suppose one could use some modern tubes with the older parts but for the most part you can't find stuff to fit. The Colorado tubes flared from 1 1/8" at the top to 1 3/8" at the BB and this is the reason these tubes worked the way they did. If you use straight 1 3/8" tubes the frame would be WAY too stiff for all but the biggest and heaviest guys. So without the flared tubes the BB becomes pretty useless............and the flared tubes are not available in the superlight and thin 953/853 material.

I think an homage bike would be a way for folks to ride a little slice in time and see how the Serottas of the day rode - which is pretty damn good and very much unique at the time. They were, and are, great riding bikes that have a understandable following and it just feels like fun to me to build a few that honor that.

dave

[David Kirk]

My CSI came with just the Serotta 'S' decal no real 'head badge'. The decal that was not replaced was the two-tone (half and half reversed) 25th anniversary insignia that looked exactly like the badge in the pic-- except that it was done up in light/dark blues. The 'missing' decal was originally located just above the BB on the front of the seat tube. It's not such a huge deal, but I was kinda disappointed that my 25th anniversary bike no longer had the identifying mark.

Thanks for your input. I just thot I'd never see anything like that again, since it's been so long since the bike was originally built.

Thanks again,
Mike in AR:beer:

I understand now - we have our wires crossed I think. The photo shows a head badge that was made specifically for the 25 bikes we built to celebrate the 25th anniversary. It was a unique model and all of them got this headbadge.

If I understand properly you have a standard CSi that is missed the decal on the seat tube that mentions the dates and years of manufacture of the bikes and that you don't have a 25th anniversary bike.

I'm not sure where you would get that decal you are missing. I would check with Screen Specialties - they are the folks that made the decals to begin with and they may be holding some stock of them.

Does this make sense?

dave

[David Kirk]

The bike won't be a CSi. It won't even be a Serotta. But it can have the heart and soul of one. You should take those signature pieces and build a CSI as you would envision it would be built today with the best of what's available now. Isn't that what you guys set out to do when designing the first CSi? Making the best steel bike possible?

You are of course right on - said bike would not be a CSi nor would it be a Serotta but instead it would, if built, be an homage to the company and the bikes it made.

It would of course be a time capsule of sorts where one would draw a line in the sand and say "I want to a bike just like 1992" and not be the newest most cutting edge bike that takes in account the passing years and the advancement of materials that have happened over that time. I think if one wanted to build a CSi for 2014 one would use Colorado tubes made out of 953 with walls of .55/.35/.55, lighter c-stays with more aggressive butts, thinner s-stays......etc. The problem of course is that these tubes don't exist and can't be had at anything near to a reasonable cost.

I feel my current offerings, especially the JKS, are the best bike I can build with the materials that are currently available. I use stock 953 main tubes (and can't think of a way I would change them) and chainstays, seat stays and fork blades that are made for me to give the ride I feel a bike should have. The specs evolve over time with the idea being that at any given time the JKS is the best bike I can build.........it's in its DNA and it will continue to evolve over time. An homage bike would by design be a time capsule of a time that has passed and in that way be different that what I currently build.

dave

[David Kirk]

Dave;

Get with Kelly and Dave W. share the build chores as a group.
Get Ben to sign it. Auction it off at NAHBS. Donate the proceeds to
the charity of your choice.
I say this without actual knowledge of the personalities or politics that
may be involved so please pardon me if there is any oil/ water thing
with the people mentioned or omitted. I'm just looking at this from an
innocent pov that would solidify and focus a great bicycle legacy, be fun,
help a charity and be great pr.

VF

That is a fun idea. From a practicality standpoint it would be a really tough thing to pull off as the three of us are spread out pretty darn far across the country. I think the only way to build something as a collaboration would be to have the three of us in the same place at the same time with a pile of orders in hand and then we could work together on the bikes. Otherwise it would mean someone does something and puts it in a box and sends it off the the next guy and this would be tough to do well and certainly lose any feel of a true collaboration.

I think I can speak for the 3 of us when I say we all get along very well and that we have huge respect for one another so I can't see politics or personalities being a problem. I think it would be fun to make the shop dirty with those guys again.

So I'm not sure one could make it work from a time/space/distance standpoint but it sounds like fun.

dave

[Climb01742]

I think an homage bike would be a way for folks to ride a little slice in time and see how the Serottas of the day rode - which is pretty damn good and very much unique at the time. They were, and are, great riding bikes that have a understandable following and it just feels like fun to me to build a few that honor that.

dave

If I understand this project correctly (and for me that's always iffy) it seems to have two parts. One part is to build bikes for others to ride. The other part is more personal for you, and thus in my book, more valuable. You want to pay homage to and honor a time, place, group of people and achievements in your life. My two cents...follow your heart and this second mission. Greatness comes more often from a personal itch that needs scratching than a public need met.

[miguel]

disc brake CSI with all the internal hydro routing
painted in bizarro 7-11

[majorpat]

Build a Kirk with the parts, it will have a Serotta soul. Shouldn't be a CSi, I think we just need to let Serotta go and move forward. Guys like DK, Bedford and others share some of the experience of Serotta and are now moving that legacy further down the road. As my 9 year old daughter sings several times a day, "let it go!"
Pat

[David Kirk]

Build a Kirk with the parts, it will have a Serotta soul. Shouldn't be a CSi, I think we just need to let Serotta go and move forward. Guys like DK, Bedford and others share some of the experience of Serotta and are now moving that legacy further down the road. As my 9 year old daughter sings several times a day, "let it go!"
Pat

Exactly - I would never dream of building anything but a 'Kirk' and couldn't build a Serotta even if I wanted to.........that ship has sailed.

dave

[jr59]

Dave, what ever you decide to build, I'm sure will be great. You know about the history of the brand, and how to build a great bike.

Just please let us all know what you decide to do. As I am sure that all of us would love to see this project, in whatever form it takes.

[rnhood]

I will agree with "climb011742", build something from your heart given this moment in time - so to speak. Make a conceptual drawing or picture prior to building, then build it once someone commits. I like the 10th anniversary idea that you implemented but, I guess you don't have enough parts to do this type thing again. Sounds like this particular one will be a one-off.

[Tim Porter]

Dave: fun idea, check your email . . . . Tim

[happycampyer]

Dave: fun idea, check your email . . . . Tim
This could be Kirk #4...

[Tim Porter]

This could be Kirk #4...

It's somewhat unlikely but I could see this as the ultimate L'Eroica bike, DT shifters, 7-11 graphics and all . . . .

[regularguy412]

I understand now - we have our wires crossed I think. The photo shows a head badge that was made specifically for the 25 bikes we built to celebrate the 25th anniversary. It was a unique model and all of them got this headbadge.

If I understand properly you have a standard CSi that is missed the decal on the seat tube that mentions the dates and years of manufacture of the bikes and that you don't have a 25th anniversary bike.

I'm not sure where you would get that decal you are missing. I would check with Screen Specialties - they are the folks that made the decals to begin with and they may be holding some stock of them.

Does this make sense?

dave

Yes sir. And thanks again for your input. My 'missing' decal looked like the one pictured on the yellow bike below-- tho my CSI is dark blue with titanium color Serotta decals. As I recall, my decal was not placed on the downtube, but on the seattube -- sort of where the world championship colors are on this pic.

Mike in AR:beer:

[rounder]

What about doing something for Ben...Hey man, you made this all possible. We did this for you. Build something for Ben that he would like.

When I started getting into bikes, it quickly became more than just transportation.