Tyler's suspension upheld.......

[j.p.rich]

This pretty much sums it up: “It is sad that Mr. Hamilton resorted to conspiracy theories rather than just accept the consequences of his doping.”
:no:
http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2077

[ada@prorider.or]

tyler made a statement the he will proof his inocience
until he does not have a penny left

so we still have a long wait

couple of millions i guess

[jerk]

popped.

jerk

[Kevin]

He is toast.

Kevin

[Hysbrian]

I think that Tyler acting like this is 1,000X worse then what Miller did.
MP

[manet]

tyler made a statement the he will proof his inocience
until he does not have a penny left

so we still have a long wait

couple of millions i guess

dental maintenance shall be his new past time

[andy mac]

naughty boy is back in a few months anyway...


End in sight?
Hamilton did achieve a minor victory in the CAS appeal in that the panel determined that the two-year suspension handed down by the American Arbitration Association/North American Court of Arbitration for Sport (AAA/CAS) was inappropriately started on the date of the decision - April 17, 2005 - instead of the date of the original infraction - September 11, 2004.

That means that Hamilton will be eligible to compete again later this year. Strict anti-doping provisions in the charter of the new UCI ProTour require that a rider be banned from participating at that top level of the sport for a period twice that of any suspension handed out by a rider's national federation.

Under the original suspension, Hamilton would not have been eligible to ride for a ProTour team until April of 2008. Now that the suspension date has been shifted, he might be eligible to ride at that level after September 22 of this year, coincidentally just two days before the start of this year's world road race championship.

[Elefantino]

Ironic that, in all likelihood, he'll be stripped of his gold medal, which will be given to the silver medalist, his old teammate.

Perhaps he can say that he lost it. Or his twin took it.

Sad. Heras. Tyler. Who knows who else in the future.

Of course, I was popping SportLegs like candy yesterday in order to finish a particularly nasty (windy, rainy) century, so I look who's talking.

[Fixed]

bro I didn't see where he was losing his oly. gold where did you see that ?
cheers :beer:

[MartyE]

The russian federation is appealing on the basis of his first
positive test after the time trial. Given his failed defense
I would say Ekimov has a good shot at the gold.

So, does this put Tyler in the same league as Virenque?
Virenques twin?

marty

[jerk]

bro I didn't see where he was losing his oly. gold where did you see that ?
cheers :beer:


he won't lose the medal because they froze his b sample. he is only popped based on the findings of both samples they took in the vuelta that year. uinfortunatly eki will have to wait untill 2008 to win another gold medal; 20 years after he won his first.

jerk

[Samster]

If you want to enjoy this sport, you simply can't care about things like this.

-sam

[flydhest]

If you want to enjoy this sport, you simply can't care about things like this.

-sam

You got it backwards, Sam. If you want to care about these things, you can't enjoy the sport. :cool:

[gone]

naughty boy is back in a few months anyway...

Under the original suspension, Hamilton would not have been eligible to ride for a ProTour team until April of 2008. Now that the suspension date has been shifted, he might be eligible to ride at that level after September 22 of this year, coincidentally just two days before the start of this year's world road race championship.

Although he'll be able to ride after September, he won't be able to ride for a ProTour team for another two years after that so he'll either be racing for a continental team or for a team here in the states.

[gone]

Though I don't buy the "vanished twin" business or any of the other weirdo theories thrown out in Tyler's defense. Suspend disbelief just for a moment and suppose he's innocent and the testers did in fact make a mistake. Just as there are powerful reasons for a guilty athlete to proclaim innocence, there are equally powerful reasons for the testers/UCI to claim their system is perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. Heck, for a while there I even thought I had made one (turns out I was mistaken).

I don't intend to start a debate on Tyler's innocence or guilt since none of us having anything other than opinions on the matter but every time I see someone busted (and the list is pretty darned long) and protesting their innocence I always think "what if he is?"

[bostondrunk]

Though I don't buy the "vanished twin" business or any of the other weirdo theories thrown out in Tyler's defense. Suspend disbelief just for a moment and suppose he's innocent and the testers did in fact make a mistake. Just as there are powerful reasons for a guilty athlete to proclaim innocence, there are equally powerful reasons for the testers/UCI to claim their system is perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. Heck, for a while there I even thought I had made one (turns out I was mistaken).

I don't intend to start a debate on Tyler's innocence or guilt since none of us having anything other than opinions on the matter but every time I see someone busted (and the list is pretty darned long) and protesting their innocence I always think "what if he is?"

Personally I feel bad for the guy, mainly because I firmly believe that 99% of them dope. How many riders have been quoted as saying you can't ride a 3 week tour naturally.......quite a few.
That said, I do think he is guilty. Seems a little too strange that he and his teammate got caught for the same thing at essentially the same time. It sounds a lot like the team doctor got the blood bags mixed up between the two of them (or he did it on purpose......conspiracy!!!).

[ada@prorider.or]

well despite all things said and what he said at the tv stations (he never schould have done that),as i get to known tyler i havea hard time beleive that he is guitly

he is a really nice person but stranger things happend
:no:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . gh you sound like me! ;)

I am ambivalent. He may very well have done it. But, like you, I have grown deeply distrustful and suspicious of the whole drug testing program because of just what you say--the huge vested interest the testing bodies have in seeing every accused cyclist proclaimed guilty. Any other outcome is a blow to their pride and credibility. They have vey compelling reasons to use whatever methods they have at their disposal to make sure he's ultimately found guilty. As I see it, the only reason Tyler's case lasted this long is because he had the financial resources to carry it this far. The huge majority of cyclists do not have those resources.

But also like you, I was wondering exactly what he could do as far as racing for the duration of this suspension. He could, of course, do Mt. Washington again, or even use the summer to journey around the country and support his foundation's efforts by doing charity rides. If he is elegible to race again after this September--albeit not in ProTour events--then I guess he could do the world championships if they would be willing to put him on the team.

But I confess to being in the dark about domestic events and teams. Are they covered by the ProTour ban? Could Tyler race for Navigators or HealthNet, assuming they would hire him? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the UCI was threatening USA Cycling by telling them that if they did not observe the Protour rules--including suspensions--that the UCI was not bring any ProTour events to the US.

Of course, the ProTour part may end up being moot if the squabbling goes on between the UCI and the major tours. Even if things stay the same as they are today, with the tours offering their own trophies and prize money and possible point system, there might be a very real possiblity of Tyler signing on with a Continental division team and getting into one of the grand tours via a wild card invitation to his team. In fact, if I'm understanding the p*ssing match correctly, there may be no compulsion for the grand tours to invite ANY Protour team to their races.

I'm not an expert, but it does seem to me this whole situation could possibly work to Tyler's advantage in the long run. He's had a whole year to refine his training and truly heal the multitude of small rips, tears, and other injuries that may have accumulated over years of pro competition. If domestic teams are not constrained by ProTour rules and he has friends at various domestic teams, he might very well sign on with one of them and still race a nearly complete schedule this coming season.

In any event, I still have trouble believing he really did it, but even if he did, then he still has my sympathy.

BBD

[gone]

But I confess to being in the dark about domestic events and teams. Are they covered by the ProTour ban? Could Tyler race for Navigators or HealthNet, assuming they would hire him?
BBD

I believe that all of the US teams (except Discovery) are the equivalent of Continental teams i.e., not ProTour teams therefore the +2 year ban does not apply to them.


In any event, I still have trouble believing he really did it, but even if he did, then he still has my sympathy.
BBD

It strains credibility that, knowing blood testing was being done and knowing autologous blood doping was undetectible he (or he and his team doctor/trainer/whomever) would be so stupid as to take someone elses blood, even by accident. Having said that, as I said elsewhere, the pressures are enormous and it would take a better man than I to resist them.

He has my sympathy either way also. By every indication, he appears to be a gifted, giving athlete and a decent person.

[toaster]

After following this story since the beginning and reading the latest findings by an arbitration panel it seems the evidence is clear that there was a mixed population of red blood cells.

Tyler Hamilton allowed for this unnatural condition to occur. Tyler Hamilton did not go all the way through with the DNA testing which could have proved his claim of chimerism.

Tyler doped and got caught.

I like Tyler and think he's a fine person and excellent athlete. He's paying for his mistake and I wish him the best.

This means a lot of cyclists feel the pressure to try to gain advantage and there's plenty of people willing to help them use less than ethical means.

Just wait until there's gene doping and it becomes nearly impossible to detect. There's a lot of athletes who will fight for privacy rights against testing now because testing is going to be more unfair and less reliable soon enough.

[BBB]

As I understand, Hamilton cannot enter any event that requires him to hold a licence from USA Cycling. Therefore this rules him out from your domestic competition as much as it rules him out of any Pro Tour events. But think about it for a minute, what would be the point of suspending him from competition if he could simply race as a professional in the US? That kind of defeats the purpose of the suspension. Assuming Hamilton does not retire in the interim and all his paperwork is ready, he should be issued with a licence from USA Cycling on 22 September 2006 enabling him to race again.

[e-RICHIE]

... Assuming Hamilton does not retire in the interim and all his paperwork is ready, he should be issued with a licence from USA Cycling on 22 September 2006 enabling him to race again.

i got 2 words for you:
effin' cross rules -
and, by coincidence, it starts in september.

when i broke my leg 4 years ago, i diverted
my racing interests and switched to 'cross.
there's no reason tyler couldn't do the same.

road is passe.
'cross is the way-ay.

[andy mac]

"In any event, I still have trouble believing he really did it, but even if he did, then he still has my sympathy."
BBD[/QUOTE]





hey, then you should totally check out:

http://www.ladiesofthepen.com/5171-5185/5181-03-07.html

:beer:

[e-RICHIE]

hey, then you should totally check out:

http://www.ladiesofthepen.com/5171-5185/5181-03-07.html

:beer:


i won't ask how you found that site.
someone else can atmo.

[Samster]

You got it backwards, Sam. If you want to care about these things, you can't enjoy the sport. :cool:

Nice reversal.

-sam

ps. call me whatever you want, but in the end none of it really matters... it's just (tainted) sport... just like every other sport.

[BBB]

[QUOTE=e-RICHIE]i got 2 words for you:
effin' cross rules -

That's three words or at least two and a half!

Semantics aside, I reckon his new Golden Retrivers might enjoy themselves more than the hurly burly of the TdF, but do you think a cross race is the best place for the trade mark early/mid-race broken bone?

[72gmc]

"In any event, I still have trouble believing he really did it, but even if he did, then he still has my sympathy."
BBD





hey, then you should totally check out:

http://www.ladiesofthepen.com/5171-5185/5181-03-07.html

:beer:[/QUOTE]

They list all sorts of vital stats but not their crimes?

[Sandy]

IF Tyler did it and lied about it, then he doesn't have my sympathy. In that case, he must accept the consequences of his actions.


Sandy

[William]

After following this story since the beginning and reading the latest findings by an arbitration panel it seems the evidence is clear that there was a mixed population of red blood cells.

Tyler Hamilton allowed for this unnatural condition to occur. Tyler Hamilton did not go all the way through with the DNA testing which could have proved his claim of chimerism.

.


That's one of the things that bugged me about his claim. He put it out there as a defense, why did he never follow through with the testing? He has the money to pay for it. Why not do it? Get it done and prove he has the condition that he claimed he had that could explain the positive results the tests came up with?

Unless of course it was never true to begin with. To me, that's what the failure to follow through indicates.

I suppose there is the possibility that they were done and the outcome that was wanted did not appear.

Just my HO.

William

[BumbleBeeDave]

Tyler's contention was--as I remember it--that DNA testing carried out by the same testing authorities that gave him the positive originally would not be any more reliable than the original blood testing. I would tend to agree with this reasoning simply because the testing authorities inthis case have a tree-MEN-dus conflict of interest. In other words, he was afraid the test would be rigged.

He did offer to undergo further testing conducted by an INDEPENDENT testing lab. But the UCI would not release any information about the protocols they used in the original test and therefore the exact SAME test could not be duplicated by an outside lab. So even if he DID go ahead and commisiion independent testing, the UCI could just say "We won't accept those results because it was not the EXACT same test as we did."

So in other words, the UCI was doing their best to APPEAR to be giving him a fair shot, but were in fact stacking the cards against him as best they could. They were making it impossible for him to undergo further testing anywhere but THEIR lab, where with any test results we would simply have to take their word for it that the results were honest.

So their contention in their press release about his conviction, that he could have undergone further testing but refused, was disingenuous at best and--to me at least--outright deceptive. That's been a rather strongly implied but never baldly stated part of his defense--that the fix was in once he was accused. They were doing their best to avoid giving him any REAL chance to prove himself innocent.

BBD

[Ken Lehner]

. . . gh you sound like me! ;)

I am ambivalent. He may very well have done it. But, like you, I have grown deeply distrustful and suspicious of the whole drug testing program because of just what you say--the huge vested interest the testing bodies have in seeing every accused cyclist proclaimed guilty. Any other outcome is a blow to their pride and credibility. They have vey compelling reasons to use whatever methods they have at their disposal to make sure he's ultimately found guilty. As I see it, the only reason Tyler's case lasted this long is because he had the financial resources to carry it this far. The huge majority of cyclists do not have those resources.



Do you think that the Court for Arbitration in Sports (CAS) is in on this vested interest thing? Failing that, do you feel that WADA et al. just put one over on the CAS? AFAIK, the CAS ruling was scathing in its finding of guilt.

[Ken Lehner]

i got 2 words for you:
effin' cross rules -
and, by coincidence, it starts in september.

when i broke my leg 4 years ago, i diverted
my racing interests and switched to 'cross.
there's no reason tyler couldn't do the same.

road is passe.
'cross is the way-ay.

You forget that Hamilton couldn't even keep the rubber side down on the road. 'Cross? Oh, the humanity...

[William]

Tyler's contention was--as I remember it--that DNA testing carried out by the same testing authorities that gave him the positive originally would not be any more reliable than the original blood testing. I would tend to agree with this reasoning simply because the testing authorities inthis case have a tree-MEN-dus conflict of interest. In other words, he was afraid the test would be rigged.

He did offer to undergo further testing conducted by an INDEPENDENT testing lab. But the UCI would not release any information about the protocols they used in the original test and therefore the exact SAME test could not be duplicated by an outside lab. So even if he DID go ahead and commisiion independent testing, the UCI could just say "We won't accept those results because it was not the EXACT same test as we did."

So in other words, the UCI was doing their best to APPEAR to be giving him a fair shot, but were in fact stacking the cards against him as best they could. They were making it impossible for him to undergo further testing anywhere but THEIR lab, where with any test results we would simply have to take their word for it that the results were honest.

So their contention in their press release about his conviction, that he could have undergone further testing but refused, was disingenuous at best and--to me at least--outright deceptive. That's been a rather strongly implied but never baldly stated part of his defense--that the fix was in once he was accused. They were doing their best to avoid giving him any REAL chance to prove himself innocent.

BBD

Admittedly I haven't followed this real close. But one would think, if that is what he truly believed, then he should have gone forward with independent testing. He could have showed that he had the condition he claimed he had that could produce mixed readings. Regardless of whether the UCI accpeted the findings, if it bolstered his claims, it would be out in the public that he really did have the condition. This would put pressure on the UCI. No? At least in the public eye he would be percieved to be likely innocent which might force the UCI to tip their hand and be more cooperative?


William

[andy mac]

Do you think that the Court for Arbitration in Sports (CAS) is in on this vested interest thing? Failing that, do you feel that WADA et al. just put one over on the CAS? AFAIK, the CAS ruling was scathing in its finding of guilt.



hey dog lovers, oliver stone is waiting for your screen play.




(what about all the phonak guys nabbed last year - do you believe they were set up too? what about heras etc etc ec etc etc... give it up kids!! :beer: )

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<But one would think, if that is what he truly believed, then he should have gone forward with independent testing. He could have showed that he had the condition he claimed he had that could produce mixed readings. >>

I think you have a good point. But he may also have been counseled that independent testing with different protocols would have done no good, since the UCI would have just trumpeted tha the test was no good because it didn't match "their" protocols.

In any event, at this point this is all like Kremlin watching used to be--the Russkies did this because their chairman of the week was wearing a red tie at the state dinner last week. But what bothers me more than his (probably) being guilty is the pattern I see here that we see all the time in news stories we cover--the large beauracracy or company using it's huge financial resources to wear down the little guy to avoid any possibility of it being proved they were wrong. This really seems to have moved beyond a struggle to really eliminate doping into a struggle for the UCI and WADA to prove they are never wrong.

At this point I think it's in Tyler's best interests to just move on. Opinion seems to be so polarized about this whole affair that I don't think he's going to convince many people no matter how much more dough he spends on efforts to vindicate himself. He should just concentrate on inking a deal with a domestic or continental team on September 23 of this year, then go kick *** and test clean. He could very well still get inro a major tour next year with a wild card entry team.

BBD

[JohnS]

Tyler is not the "little guy". With the black mark that his team was also given in the incidents, if he was truly innocent, they had plenty of financial resources to fight back. Give it up, people. So what if TH is a flagwaving, dog loving, American Good Guy...HE'S GUILTY!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I'm not waving the flag for anyone. I also admit that he is most likely guilty. But I stand by my points made above. I personally feel the process used to test and prosecute accused riders is rife with conflict of interest, and that applies to EVERY accues rider, not just Tyler.

As for Phonak helping him--The UCI essentially extorted Phonak into not supporting him by threatening not to give them a ProTour license if they backed him up. It was a blatant threat--nothing veiled about it.

As for Tyler not being the "little guy," compared to the sheer weight of financial resources the UCI can bring to bear, EVERY rider is the "little guy" compared to that. Even Lance . . .

BBD

[ada@prorider.or]

Tyler is not the "little guy". With the black mark that his team was also given in the incidents, if he was truly innocent, they had plenty of financial resources to fight back.

again as he said i will fight to my last cent to prove that i did not do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will wait for that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i will remind him on this

[William]

again as he said i will fight to my last cent to prove that i did not do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will wait for that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i will remind him on this

I'm not trying to be a **** here, but again, in light of the quote you point out, why not go ahead and get tested to prove the condition he claimed he had? Even if the UCI won't accept the findings, it has weight in the public eye and would go a long way in getting people to believe his claim and back him up.


Let's back up for a moment. Did he actually claim he had the condition (which would need prior testing to let him know)? Or did he claim he 'MIGHT" have the condition?

Either way, IMHO, he should have done it.



William

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I agree. He should have gone ahead and had SOMEBODY do the testing so he had some kind of results to back up his contentions. Not doing so was a big mistake--unless, of course, he was guilty and he knew what the results would be.

Very bad move on Tyler's part.

BBD

[ada@prorider.or]

well the uci is a organisation who would not tell you how to do things
i had my deal with argue with them they never even answered any mail

as lot of cyclist and team manager say its worse the mafia

and they have all the power

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . that's pretty much my point. It's a cartel and will remain so until the riders organize.

BBD

[andy mac]

. . . that's pretty much my point. It's a cartel and will remain so until the riders organize.

BBD



you think baseball's model is the answer?????


i find that really sad. i hope you don't have a kid who wants to race bikes for a living...

[OldDog]

...HE"S GUILTY!


It's been said before. They are all guilty, until proven innocent. So what? For me, Pro bike racing is sports entertainment. Get on with the show. Tyler will be back after they let him out of the penalty box. I hope he still has some fight in him and someone picks him up for 2007.

[e-RICHIE]

. . . that's pretty much my point. It's a cartel and will remain so until the riders organize.

BBD


then it will be the rider's cartel.

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<you think baseball's model is the answer?????>>

Why no, that's not what I think at all. I don't think it will necessarily be a good thing at all. It just seems to be the inevitable outcome given what I've seen happen in other sports. When baseball players were being bought and sold like slaves that's what happened. Remember Curt Flood? Same for many other sports. I'm just surprised it hasn't happened in cycling already.

BBD

[spiderlake]

Did Tyler actually say he had a chimeric twin or was it suggested as one of the possible causes? I don't recall reading that the vanishing twin syndrome was his excuse but rather it was a possible explanation for the test results (based on reports from the person/team that developed the test).

I believe Tyler did go through independent testing and it was proven that he was NOT a chimeric twin. I can't remember where I read that but if anyone wants me to, I'll google it and see if I can find the source.

Not trying to stir the pot but just curious if I missed something.

[JohnS]

<<you think baseball's model is the answer?????>>

Why no, that's not what I think at all. I don't think it will necessarily be a good thing at all. It just seems to be the inevitable outcome given what I've seen happen in other sports. When baseball players were being bought and sold like slaves that's what happened. Remember Curt Flood? Same for many other sports. I'm just surprised it hasn't happened in cycling already.

BBD
Them's some wellpaid slaves!
It's no different than working for a multinational corp and being told you can transfer or you can quit.

[slowgoing]

. . . I agree. He should have gone ahead and had SOMEBODY do the testing so he had some kind of results to back up his contentions. Not doing so was a big mistake--unless, of course, he was guilty and he knew what the results would be.

Very bad move on Tyler's part.

BBD

He didn't have independent testing done (or at least didn't publish it if he did) because he doesn't have those conditions and he knows it. Just wait and see if he starts racing again. If he comes up clean, it's because he doesn't have those conditions and never did. If he actually had those conditions, he'll be positive for the rest of his life.

[GregLR]

Page 16 of the 29 page CAS decision dealt with the Chimera issue. It notes that DNA testing was carried out by an expert named Dr Busch on a sample of TH's blood, and it is noted that "Particularly given the extreme rarity of chimerism, this DNA testing eliminated the possibility that the mixed blood population in the Appellant's Vuelta sample was caused by Chimerism."

Immediately prior to this comment, it is noted by the CAS that "While the appellant submitted a reply from an expert concerning this testing, the Appellant did not participate in the testing, as he was invited to. The Appellant and his expert presented no scientific evidence to refute Dr Busch's analysis."

A PDF copy of the CAS decision is here:

http://www.usantidoping.org/files/active/arbitration_rulings/CAS%20Decision-Tyler%20Hamilton_Feb2006.pdf

[Steve D]

Facts about Chimerism & Vanishing Twin Phenomena:

· Chimerism was identified by the authors of the test methodology as a potential cause for false positives

· Because a false positive study was never conducted in support of the HBTT, it was argued that potential causes of mixed blood cells could not be ruled out

· Tyler never stated he was chimeric or had a vanishing twin, which was misreported by the media. The authors of the original test method identified these phenomena in their own published papers as potential causes of mixed populations among other reasons - bone marrow transplant and serious illness. However these assumptions were never validated or examined by the authors of the test

· USADA sent Tyler’s remaining blood samples from Athens and the Vuelta to a DNA expert to be tested for micro chimerism in August of 2005

· Tyler sent his own fresh samples to an expert in Austria who developed a Chimerism test in June of 2005

· All tests prove that Tyler is not a chimera, and did not have a vanishing twin

· Additional flow cytometry testing conducted on Tyler’s blood at MIT in December of 2004 and January of 2005 (on a sample stored in September 2004) failed to provide an explanation for the Athens and LAD test results – as they could never be reproduced

· Tyler exhausted every opportunity and resource available to him to try to determine the cause of these test results but was never able to draw a medical or scientific conclusion

[vaxn8r]

He didn't have independent testing done (or at least didn't publish it if he did) because he doesn't have those conditions and he knows it. Just wait and see if he starts racing again. If he comes up clean, it's because he doesn't have those conditions and never did. If he actually had those conditions, he'll be positive for the rest of his life.
Exactly what I said over a year ago. You'll not see him submit to more testing because he will come out negative...which means....he doped.

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<<· Additional flow cytometry testing conducted on Tyler’s blood at MIT in December of 2004 and January of 2005 (on a sample stored in September 2004) failed to provide an explanation for the Athens and LAD test results – as they could never be reproduced

· Tyler exhausted every opportunity and resource available to him to try to determine the cause of these test results but was never able to draw a medical or scientific conclusion>>>

" . . . they could never be reproduced." because the UCI would never release info about the ptorocols used to conduct THEIR tests. Therefore NOONE could EXACTLY reproduce the test used by the UCI--and therefore the UCI could reject ANY outside test as inadequate and inadmissible because it didn't match their own.

My huge complaint here is independent of Tyler's case or his guilt/innocence. The problem with THIS test is that no false positive ratio was ever established. The UCI just says "trust us--you have no choice" just the same as the guy who developed the test, who also claims the test is 100% accurate. Well, of COURSE he does! Vested interest.

And this same Kafka-esque strategy also carries through to EVERY test the UCI does. They have a huge vested interest in convicting everyone who's accused. They claim they don't want to release the protocols they use to conduct the tests because it would give riders info they could use to circumvent the tests. But as far as I'm concerned, the REAL reason is because it gives them a powerful tool to pursue their vested interest. It prevents them from having to admit ANY contravening independent testing evidence from ANY rider because there's no way ANY rider can exactly duplicate the tests the UCI used because they won't let anyone know how they do the tests!

This whole situation stinks for EVERY rider because under these conditions, NO rider can adequately defend themselve in the eyes of the UCI and WADA. They want everyone who is accused to be guilty because it suits their public relations and reputational purposes--their huge vested interest.

Tyler's statement refers to the need for a truly independent testing agency. Well, he's right!

BBD

[Tom]

Let's keep some perspective here. It's a guy on a bike. It's a guy on a bike that broke the rules of the club. He broke the rules of the club to make some money. He got busted.

Cue Porky Pig.

[saab2000]

I see BBD's point. If the riders were ever able to prove anything other than a positive test, the UCI method's and tests would never be trusted. The science here is way higher than my feeble mind can comprehend, but I see problems in the way this whole thing goes. TH (like most riders) probably did something naughty, but the "guilty until proven innocent, and you will never be able to prove yourself innocent" mentality of the UCI does nothing to make me feel warm and fuzzy. The sport is corrupt at all levels, top to bottom. Always has been and it always will be. That is the nature of the game.

[spiderlake]

If you go by the 'facts' stated at TH's website, he did submit samples for independent testing and it was confirmed he is/was not chimeric. Who do you believe? I don't know the answer to that question but it just doesn't seem so black and white to me..... and I'm a guy that deals with 1 and 0's all day long....

Exactly what I said over a year ago. You'll not see him submit to more testing because he will come out negative...which means....he doped.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Oh, boy, that's really starting to sound Kafka-esque, Tom! :rolleyes:

B'dee, b'dee, b'dee . . . Datz all, folks! ;)

BBD