Hincapie's turn

[mcteague]

New tell all book but it appears he still may not "get it".

"Lance understands he did a lot of wrong things, and I think he is truly sorry for the things he did," Hincapie told AP. "Is it right, though, that he's being blamed for 100 years of doping? I don't think so."


http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/24/4078750/armstrong-teammate-hincapie-pens.html

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

New tell all book but it appears he still may not "get it".

"Lance understands he did a lot of wrong things, and I think he is truly sorry for the things he did," Hincapie told AP. "Is it right, though, that he's being blamed for 100 years of doping? I don't think so."


http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/24/4078750/armstrong-teammate-hincapie-pens.html

Tim

Blaming you too georgie. You are also a cheat and liar..just not a bully.....lance's 'boy'...as you continue to make $ off your cheating past.

[cfox]

I'll admit I enjoy reading doping memoirs, but I'll pass on this one. I know if I read it I'd hear George's dull, slow monotone in my head the whole time and I'd drift off to sleep.

[gemship]

Read the article linked. Don't think too highly of LA or Hincapie. I do like this
quoted comment from someone regarding the linked article.

"I have no doubt that Tygart singled out Armstrong for all the doping blame only because he was very successful. His teamates got off with a slap on the wrist. People with large egos, like Tygart get their thrills from getting the big fish, not in cleaning up cycling from doping."

Tygart for whatever reason never finished the job he created.

[fuzzalow]

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz.

Basta, basta. This whole LA saga is a mini-industry to squeeze the last drops of blood doping from the proverbial stone. As the remaining actors in this tragi-comedy play to the burlesque of what might get noticed and will sell.

LA is Joey Buttafuoco. GH is MaryJo Buttafuoco. TH is Amy Fisher.

[Black Dog]

Blaming you too georgie. You are also a cheat and liar..just not a bully.....lance's 'boy'...as you continue to make $ off your cheating past.

Oh no, he is as bad as a bully and worse. He sat in silence at watched Lance destroy people he knew were telling the truth. Stuck by Lance's side. He has shown zero morality (and I am not talking about the doping) and deserves little. Just because you are quiet and loyal does not make you good.

[oldpotatoe]

Oh no, he is as bad as a bully and worse. He sat in silence at watched Lance destroy people he knew were telling the truth. Stuck by Lance's side. He has shown zero morality (and I am not talking about the doping) and deserves little. Just because you are quiet and loyal does not make you good.

Ain't saying anything like he was 'good'..said he was a liar, and he still is.

All these guys that got little or no punishment for doping..they are just like LA, just not the bully part. They 'came clean' showed some 'I'm so sorry', type crap, then design a new jersey for sale, with 'hincapie' as an example, all over it..

Ya think he's doing this stupid book for free? Hardly..I'm sure an advan$e, and more $ when some will buy it..

[Black Dog]

Ain't saying anything like he was 'good'..said he was a liar, and he still is.

All these guys that got little or no punishment for doping..they are just like LA, just not the bully part. They 'came clean' showed some 'I'm so sorry', type crap, then design a new jersey for sale, with 'hincapie' as an example, all over it..

Ya think he's doing this stupid book for free? Hardly..I'm sure an advan$e, and more $ when some will buy it..

Sorry, I know that you were not defending the guy and calling him good. I think that he gets a pass because people think that by not being an overt bully like lance makes him good. I agree that those that came clean under pressure got off a bit easy but they should have had some break for talking. As for Georges book, yep more $$$ from cheating and lying. :mad:

[peanutgallery]

Hincapie = hard legs soft mind

Very deserving of public ridicule and I hope his hotel spa thing bankrupts him. He should not be allowed near any development team, though his ill-gotten millions should fund it

[93legendti]

He should be publicly flogged. His dog should run away. He should have a mirror break and have 7 years of bad luck. He should never find any lucky pennies.

[dpk501]

I used to look to look up to him back when he was a junior racer with that 'fro.

He's just part of that larger "bro" culture in cycling. Such a disappointment.

I wish they would all just go away and stay silent. Disappear like Vande Velde or Dave Z.

I guess Hincappie needs to support that expensive cheesy hotel. I am making a conscious decision to never buy any of his products (including the book) and I think most people should too...stay away from his clothing.

Does anyone know why BMC (andy Rihs) supported his junior team after finding out he doped? I know they're using FELT frames but that just makes Rihs even seem like a bigger hypocrite with Floyd and Tyler.

[dpk501]

PS: Don't buy the book!

Illegally download it instead!

[metalheart]

With a net worth of 40 million, Mr. Hincapie does not seem to need the money from book sales .....
http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/athletes/george-hincapie-net-worth/

[e-RICHIE]

With a net worth of 40 million, Mr. Hincapie does not seem to need the money from book sales .....
http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/athletes/george-hincapie-net-worth/

That is truly disappointing atmo. I had no idea these cats could accumulate that kind of wealth.
Make me even madder that his name, company, and devo team were so heavily promoted in last
night's Athens Twilight feed.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::cool::cool:
:cool::cool::cool:
:):cool:;)

[bigbill]

I don't hate the guy, I'm kind of ambivalent about the whole thing. I remember him from the Greenville days in the early to mid 90's up to the point that Motorola signed him in 94. I still remember seeing him sitting in a new BMW in the hotel parking lot when I was there to race the Michelin Classic. I don't think he's a role model, he's a guy with a gift for riding a bike and doped like everyone else around him. He had opportunities to take a stand and speak out but he waited until the twilight of his career to do so. He made his money and still has it. I'm not aware of any lawsuits or charges against him that will take his money, so he won. Lance lost.

[e-RICHIE]

I don't hate the guy, I'm kind of ambivalent about the whole thing. I remember him from the Greenville days in the early to mid 90's up to the point that Motorola signed him in 94. I still remember seeing him sitting in a new BMW in the hotel parking lot when I was there to race the Michelin Classic. I don't think he's a role model, he's a guy with a gift for riding a bike and doped like everyone else around him. He had opportunities to take a stand and speak out but he waited until the twilight of his career to do so. He made his money and still has it. I'm not aware of any lawsuits or charges against him that will take his money, so he won. Lance lost.

Eh I remember when he was a junior racing for a team I sponsored, so I see it all through another lens.
He can keep the money, I don't care. My astonishment is regarding how much of it there is (according
to the link).

[enr1co]

Hincapie = hard legs soft mind



Not even hard legs- such BS for him to have the label of "best US classics rider". He was mediocre pack fill at best without the drugs. He should have also been stripped of the dope wins he recorded. Total loser.

[CunegoFan]

As for Georges book, yep more $$$ from cheating and lying. :mad:

Nope. The advance was donated to a NY kids track program. Any royalties are going there as well.

I do think it is funny that people cannot wrap their heads around the fact that doping was a systemic problem so they need someone to blame.

Oh no, he is as bad as a bully and worse. He sat in silence at watched Lance destroy people he knew were telling the truth. Stuck by Lance's side. He has shown zero morality (and I am not talking about the doping) and deserves little. Just because you are quiet and loyal does not make you good.

There is not a single person in pro cycling who did not know that Armstrong was doping. Where is their blame for standing by? Vaughters plays the part of the white knight here to save cycling. When Landis came clean, he could have stepped forward and given a first person account of doping at Postal. Instead he kept his head down, waiting to see how the federal investigation would turn out. Where is his blame?

[Hindmost]

With a net worth of 40 million, Mr. Hincapie does not seem to need the money from book sales .....
http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/athletes/george-hincapie-net-worth/

That 40 mil is incredibly high. Savvy investments over the years?

[dpk501]

The doping I could deal with but sociopathic bullying, adamant denials and lying is just utter BS. I can respect the humble guys in the system who admit it move on.

We see this behaviour with CEOs, Wall Street finance and in hospitals. It's human nature. But we can make every effort not to support anything they do.

Let them keep their money. Just don't give adoration or attention.

[e-RICHIE]

The doping I could deal with but sociopathic bullying, adamant denials and lying is just utter BS.
That's kinda' sorta' the stuff that has always bothered me, and I'm a guy who believed that PEDS
and the sport were always intertwined. I accept it on face value. But each of these guys gets to
a line and, when they cross it, must go to bed nightly thinking, "I am making all this money, but I
am cheating." That must be a living hell to reconcile even if "everyone else is doing it too" atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

;):p:p
;):p:p
;):):)

[firerescuefin]

Tygart did what he could as far as USADA was concerned. He's not the UCI and he's not WADA, and frankly both organizations were actively complicit as part of the charade. Explain how you would have liked him to "finish the job".



Read the article linked. Don't think too highly of LA or Hincapie. I do like this
quoted comment from someone regarding the linked article.

"I have no doubt that Tygart singled out Armstrong for all the doping blame only because he was very successful. His teamates got off with a slap on the wrist. People with large egos, like Tygart get their thrills from getting the big fish, not in cleaning up cycling from doping."

Tygart for whatever reason never finished the job he created.

[saab2000]

The doping I could deal with but sociopathic bullying, adamant denials and lying is just utter BS. I can respect the humble guys in the system who admit it move on.

We see this behaviour with CEOs, Wall Street finance and in hospitals. It's human nature. But we can make every effort not to support anything they do.

Let them keep their money. Just don't give adoration or attention.

It's human nature for some people, but not for everyone. I don't understand cheating and lying, especially against 'friends' and family. I've seen it up close in business where some extended in-laws would basically steal from each other without a second thought. This is what I can't reconcile. I wasn't brought up that way and I don't understand it. Something ill-gotten just isn't really worth it in my way of thinking.

Anyway, as to Hincapie's money, I'm sure he didn't earn $40M over his career. He's likely invested well, which is more than many former pro athletes can say. The number of former pro athletes who are broke within a few years is sobering, to say the least.

Who owns his clothing company? Is it profitable? What about his hotel?

At least he was thinking about is post-cycling career while he was still riding. I mean, he's only about 40 years old and there's no 401(k) or pension plan in cycling....

[OtayBW]

But each of these guys gets to a line and, when they cross it, must go to bed nightly thinking, "I am making all this money, but I
am cheating."That must be a living hell to reconcile even if "everyone else is doing it too" atmo.
Unfortunately, that line varies for everyone, right up to someone with sociopathic tendencies more or less, where it may not even exist. That the whole problem has been so pervasive suggests that there hasn't been a lot of lost sleep over the years...


rearranged disorder

:p:):p
;););)
:p:):p

[e-RICHIE]

That the whole problem has been so pervasive suggests that there hasn't been a lot of lost sleep over the years...



Yes. That's the saddest part of this ordeal atmo.

[oliver1850]

I used to look to look up to him back when he was a junior racer with that 'fro.

He's just part of that larger "bro" culture in cycling. Such a disappointment.

I wish they would all just go away and stay silent. Disappear like Vande Velde or Dave Z.......

CVV and his dad were guests of honor at local club's meeting. People actually paid to ride with them.

[CunegoFan]

Tygart did what he could as far as USADA was concerned. He's not the UCI and he's not WADA, and frankly both organizations were actively complicit as part of the charade. Explain how you would have liked him to "finish the job".

For one thing he can stop with the propaganda that Postal was unique and people forced others to dope. He could make it clear that there was barely a rider or team at the top of the sport who was not doing the same thing. Scapegoating a few individuals accomplishes nothing.

The result of USADA has been to replace American dopers with British dopers.

[cfox]

That is truly disappointing atmo. I had no idea these cats could accumulate that kind of wealth.
Make me even madder that his name, company, and devo team were so heavily promoted in last
night's Athens Twilight feed.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::cool::cool:
:cool::cool::cool:
:):cool:;)

I'd guess the figure is high, but I'm pretty sure he and his family made a ton on a few big real estate deals before the crash.

[dpk501]

For one thing he can stop with the propaganda that Postal was unique and people forced others to dope. He could make it clear that there was barely a rider or team at the top of the sport who was not doing the same thing. Scapegoating a few individuals accomplishes nothing.


Agreed!

Barry Bonds, A-Rod, Ryan Braun yet the MLB is popular as ever and doping is not the first thing that comes to mind when you think about baseball.

It still feels like Tygart made it personal, he wanted to win and topple the biggest ego he could.

Dopers or not, the sport is beautiful for the suffering.And they may be great cyclists but not necessarily good human beings.

I feel sorry for their children...

[firerescuefin]

For one thing he can stop with the propaganda that Postal was unique and people forced others to dope. He could make it clear that there was barely a rider or team at the top of the sport who was not doing the same thing. Scapegoating a few individuals accomplishes nothing.

The result of USADA has been to replace American dopers with British dopers.

Taking down the top dog, and all of those that were complicit certainly does "something"....it essentially took PM out of the UCI and showed how dirty (up and down the line) everything had become. I believe Cookson has the best interest of the sport in mind, and that it's in a much better position going forward. That could be hopeful and myopic, but it sure isn't worse than the pre-existing alternative.

The downside of Lance and Postal being toppled was what exactly? There wasn't a "victim" amongst any of them IMO.

[Hindmost]

US Postal and Discovery teams were unique. They gamed the system to a level no one else came close to: the top prize of cycling seven years running.

One needs to judge the Reasoned Decision by what USADA was responsible for. USADA was not responsible to clean up the entire sport or create perspective for purposes of fairness or account for the actions of hundreds of people involved in the sport. After initial evidence was presented to them USADA was responsible to investigate the actions of an American team and to administer appropriate sanctions to those involved.

[Corso]

I’m glad he has big bank, because he’ll never see a dime (or anything with his name associated with it) from me.

Just my way of protesting his choices.

[CunegoFan]

US Postal and Discovery teams were unique.

You mean unique if we don't count T-Mobile, Liberty Seguros, Rabobank, Kelme, Euskatel, CSC, Gerolsteiner, Lampre...

[makoti]

He should be publicly flogged. His dog should run away. He should have a mirror break and have 7 years of bad luck. He should never find any lucky pennies.

Um, can his dog find a good home, at least? ;)

[bluesea]

You mean unique if we don't count T-Mobile, Liberty Seguros, Rabobank, Kelme, Euskatel, CSC, Gerolsteiner, Lampre...


Lefevre has in all probability run the dirtiest of teams, but I'm sure he and his riders are squeaky clean nowadays. :rolleyes:

[e-RICHIE]

My perspective can be summed up about 62 seconds into this now famous blooper. If the look on
Hincapie's face doesn't say, "I wish to fukc I never heard of Lance Armstrong or even this stupid
bicycle racing stuff.", then I don't know what it says. By the time the 2009 TOC happened, GH
knew he'd be taking a perp walk some day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgns7CXeUI

[Elefantino]

Whatever. Won't buy the book, won't read it, won't care.

And again, to quote the Bulldog, Andrew Talansky, who spoke of the doping generation:

"**** 'em all."

Yup. :butt:

[cfox]

My perspective can be summed up about 62 seconds into this now famous blooper. If the look on
Hincapie's face doesn't say, "I wish to fukc I never heard of Lance Armstrong or even this stupid
bicycle racing stuff.", then I don't know what it says. By the time the 2009 TOC happened, GH
knew he'd be taking a perp walk some day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgns7CXeUI

was that press conference held at madame toussad's? george and levi look like wax figures

[TBDSeattle]

My perspective can be summed up about 62 seconds into this now famous blooper. If the look on
Hincapie's face doesn't say, "I wish to fukc I never heard of Lance Armstrong or even this stupid
bicycle racing stuff.", then I don't know what it says. By the time the 2009 TOC happened, GH
knew he'd be taking a perp walk some day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgns7CXeUI

^^^ Thanks for the link. I've been torn on this issue for years, and I feel like I've heard some thoughtful perspectives on this forum. Thank you all for that.

I especially like the segregation of doping in cycling, which has been rampant, and many think is rampant today, from ruthlessness off the bike, which is rare off the bike.

GH stood by, and "just followed orders" as LA destroyed, and attempted to destroy, people off the bike.

I wish I could divest myself from any company where GH or LA have a stake. At the least, I won't buy their books, or products they endorse.

[CunegoFan]

Lefevre has in all probability run the dirtiest of teams, but I'm sure he and his riders are squeaky clean nowadays. :rolleyes:

True but I just listed the teams where there is ample evidence of doping programs just as extensive as Postal's. Whether it is luck, brilliant planning, or corruption, Lefevre has managed to keep his team from being embroiled in large scale doping scandals.

Everything is clean now. That is why climbing times are just as fast as they were during the height of the blood doping era. It is too bad those poor souls gave in to temptation and used dope, which made no difference to their performance. :rolleyes:

[Shortsocks]

PS: Don't buy the book!

Illegally download it instead!

Lol. :)

[dana_e]

I had seen that before several times, but did not pay attention to george and levi/ classic, they look really uncomfy

levi seemed less apologetic then george when I read there statements. levi talks all about his great stage race results, including tour of gila, then goes into how he doped. i won Tour of Gila, wow, nice

If you seek out Dr Ferrari way after his cover is blown, you are an idiot
His name was so mud and here comes levi asking for training plans

He has a mega house in Santa Rosa, CA

Pay for Gran Fondo = not

[chengher87]

US Postal and Discovery teams were unique. They gamed the system to a level no one else came close to: the top prize of cycling seven years running.

I used to believe that. But if you take in all that's been revealed in the last decade or so, it wasn't really that Postal was head and shoulders above everyone else when it came to doping. Most of the other teams were just really stupid. Look at the Festina Affair. They were dumb enough to LOAD up a car with, according to documents:

"French police state that the car contained 250 bottles of EPO (originating from three labs in Germany and Switzerland), plus 400 bottles and ampules of various products."

TVM was found with over 100 bottles of EPO on the Spanish border I think. Not only that, riders were stupid enough to pump enough EPO so their hematocrit was 55%+, even after 1997 (which was the year the UCI set the hematocrit limit at 50%).

Have you seen the interviews with Lance? I don't think he was smart enough to organize all this. Michele Ferrari is the mastermind and should have received a stiffer penalty then the farce of an acquittal back in 2004. He actively worked WITH anti-doping agencies so that he could help riders avoid testing positive and he was the brains behind managing the riders drug intake as to skirt the threshold of positive tests. In The Armstrong Lie, Lance says that he wanted to dope more in 2000 after Hautacam because he wasn't sure it'd be enough (at the time) to win, but Ferrari suggested only one more transfusion because he was afraid Lance would get caught. Without Ferrari, Postal would have just been another Festina.

Postal wasn't smarter or unique, just lucky. Lucky that Lance chose Ferrari over Fuentes and that the UCI was un-interested in actually catching him. I mean, there are stories all over that Lance had EPO out in the open.

[bikingshearer]

A few more-or-less connected thoughts.

The kind of vicous, high-level bullying that LA engaged in is simply inexcusable. That behavior and the mindset it demonstrates is what puts him in a class by himself. He deserves all the opprobrium he gets.

Neither Lance nor US Postal invented doping in the peloton. From the six day races in the 1800s to the Pellesier brothers' revelations in the 1920s to Coppi and Anquetil flat-out admitting that doping was required for cycling success to the Dutch 1960 Olympics 100km TTT rider dropping dead to Tom Simpson on the Ventoux to Pollentier in the 1978 Tour to the rash of EPO-related heart attacks in the late 1980s and early 1990s to the Festina Affair to Lance and Floyd, the trail is long and inexorable. This excuses nothing, but it explains a great deal. Calling the pack-enforced rule against speaking out "omerta" is the perfect analogy.

As for those of us (yes, I've done it, too) who cast stones at riders who doped and are now being more or less forced to come clean and say we would never have gone along with that and would have blown the whistle on Lance and Johan and the whole USPS doping regimen - none of us can say that with any degree of certainty. The only people who can are the ones who were actually faced with the choice of doping or walking away and chose to walk away. Unless we have been in George's or Levi's position - meaning having been focused enough and hard-working enough and talented enough and lucky enough to be in the position to crack the pro peloton - we have no clue how we would have reacted. We know how we like to think we would react, but we can't and can't know.

Again, none of this excuses bad acts, nor am I advocating giving George a free pass or saying we should all rush out and buy his book. It does suggest, at least to me, that the scariest thing about the doping culture in sports is that the siren song of sports success is so strong that so many good people are seduced into making such bad decisions. I think that for most of us, "there but for the grace of God go I" is very applicable. And I think we should recognize that.

[Elefantino]

A few more-or-less connected thoughts.

The kind of vicous, high-level bullying that LA engaged in is simply inexcusable. That behavior and the mindset it demonstrates is what puts him in a class by himself. He deserves all the opprobrium he gets.

Neither Lance nor US Postal invented doping in the peloton. From the six day races in the 1800s to the Pellesier brothers' revelations in the 1920s to Coppi and Anquetil flat-out admitting that doping was required for cycling success to the Dutch 1960 Olympics 100km TTT rider dropping dead to Tom Simpson on the Ventoux to Pollentier in the 1978 Tour to the rash of EPO-related heart attacks in the late 1980s and early 1990s to the Festina Affair to Lance and Floyd, the trail is long and inexorable. This excuses nothing, but it explains a great deal. Calling the pack-enforced rule against speaking out "omerta" is the perfect analogy.

As for those of us (yes, I've done it, too) who cast stones at riders who doped and are now being more or less forced to come clean and say we would never have gone along with that and would have blown the whistle on Lance and Johan and the whole USPS doping regimen - none of us can say that with any degree of certainty. The only people who can are the ones who were actually faced with the choice of doping or walking away and chose to walk away. Unless we have been in George's or Levi's position - meaning having been focused enough and hard-working enough and talented enough and lucky enough to be in the position to crack the pro peloton - we have no clue how we would have reacted. We know how we like to think we would react, but we can't and can't know.

Again, none of this excuses bad acts, nor am I advocating giving George a free pass or saying we should all rush out and buy his book. It does suggest, at least to me, that the scariest thing about the doping culture in sports is that the siren song of sports success is so strong that so many good people are seduced into making such bad decisions. I think that for most of us, "there but for the grace of God go I" is very applicable. And I think we should recognize that.
Voice of reason, to be sure. Well put.