how long does it take

[Fixed]

bro how long to make a steel frame longer than a day = 8 hours cutting & welding ? no paint cheers :beer:

[David Kirk]

There's not one tidy answer. Here are the extremes -

Robotic tig welded steel - 3 hrs

Full on custom cut stainless lugs silver brazed - 40 hrs


There's a bit of range there.

Dave

[e-RICHIE]

fixed-issmio yo
you just threw me a softball.
here's a page we threw together so folks can watch the
progress as many from among the framebuilder's listserve
document their builds, hobby or otherwise. link-ee-poo:
http://richardsachs.com/howframesaremade.html
atmo

[Fixed]

bro it takes longer than 8 hrs. to get the stuff ready boy was i off thanks for the link

[cpg]

There's not one tidy answer. Here are the extremes -

Robotic tig welded steel - 3 hrs

Full on custom cut stainless lugs silver brazed - 40 hrs


There's a bit of range there.

Dave

China Bicycle Company got their tig steel bikes down to 40 minutes without robots. That's rippin' fast. I worked at a shop with one other guy and when we did batches (key word) of 10 we got our tig times down to 3 hours per frame. Don't call me no robot though.

Curt

[William]

.....Don't call me no robot though.

Curt

What's wrong with that??? As a guy, the only good movies are those that involve robots, sex, and explosions. What else is there??? :confused:


William ;)

[flydhest]

Curt,

Based on your observations and your professional experience, could you give us a sense of the downside to the robot-built machines. I love knowing there was a person who built my bikes. For example, each time I chat with Sacha on the phone, the next ride on my Vanilla seems really cool. Knowing Ben, I like riding my Serotta. But I know some of that is sentimental and psychological (which counts in my book).

What physical differences are there in the mass-produced, robot-TIG'd frames that you've seen in action? Is it primarily quality control? Assume, for the sake of argument, that the same person designed the frames.

Thanks, I appreciate your insight.

[David Kirk]

China Bicycle Company got their tig steel bikes down to 40 minutes without robots. That's rippin' fast. I worked at a shop with one other guy and when we did batches (key word) of 10 we got our tig times down to 3 hours per frame. Don't call me no robot though.

Curt


CPG = robot

There I said it.

Dave

[cpg]

CPG = robot

There I said it.

Dave


Am not! I'm going to tell your mom.

Curt

[David Kirk]

Don't make me kick Ma off her Harley to open up a Costco sized can of Whoop-*** on you.

Dave

[cpg]

Curt,

Based on your observations and your professional experience, could you give us a sense of the downside to the robot-built machines. I love knowing there was a person who built my bikes. For example, each time I chat with Sacha on the phone, the next ride on my Vanilla seems really cool. Knowing Ben, I like riding my Serotta. But I know some of that is sentimental and psychological (which counts in my book).

What physical differences are there in the mass-produced, robot-TIG'd frames that you've seen in action? Is it primarily quality control? Assume, for the sake of argument, that the same person designed the frames.

Thanks, I appreciate your insight.

I have no experience working in a shop with robots. I don't think there's a great deal of robotic welding going on with the high end bikes that most of us ride. I know robots are used on some cheap bikes where sizing is limited and quantities are high enough to justify the investment of the machinery. I'm no China expert but according to Tim Isaac who was VP of engineering at China Bicycle Company labor is so cheap and there's so many people looking for work it's more cost effective to weld by hand. This isn't to suggest big companies don't automate what they can but most tig operations are done by hand.

I think you've touched on how the human factor is important. Whether you're talking about a one person shop or a larger company like Serotta. When you contact them you know that you're dealing with a person/people that are passionate about their products and customers. That doesn't have value to everyone but I'm glad that it does to you.

Curt

[cpg]

Don't make me kick Ma off her Harley to open up a Costco sized can of Whoop-*** on you.

Dave

Oh yea! Well you're... err.... you're... err... well you're a big meanie.

Curt

[djg]

China Bicycle Company got their tig steel bikes down to 40 minutes without robots. That's rippin' fast. I worked at a shop with one other guy and when we did batches (key word) of 10 we got our tig times down to 3 hours per frame. Don't call me no robot though.

Curt

That is fast. Interesting tidbit. Domo arrigato, mister ... er, G.