St versus conventional non-ST rear triangle

[lewislw1]

I am considering a Serotta Legend, but cannot decide whether to go with the ST rear trangle or a conventional one. I did test ride one. In generla i felt fine, but when standing or sprinting hard Icold feel some energy transfer loss, although it was not an undue, unacceptable degree of loss. What is the view among anyone who has signficant experience with ST? Is it worth it? Would you get it again? Is it a gimmick? I was never sold on the previouls rear triangle technology from Serotta - with the polymer/elastic strips attached to the seat stays.

Len

[dirtdigger88]

Be careful when speaking of the Hors. . . people can be very touchy if you start picking on those little babies. For what it is worth, the Legend I ordered does not have the ST rear. My reasons are pure personal preference. I can not tell you one is better than the other. I would be willing that no one else can either. Either you want the carbon or you don't.

Jason

[Kevin]

I am not sure one is better than the other. But I can tell you I have an Ottrott ST and enjoy it very much. It absorbs road vibration while still giving you feedback from the road. It climbs well and corners beautifuly. I would not hesitate to buy it again.

Kevin

[Jay Torborg]

I have an Ottrott with the ST stays and a Concours without. I'm not sure how much of the ride quality is attributable to the ST stays, but I can say that the Ottrott is significantly more comforable on long rides. 100 miles on the Ottrott is comparable to 50 miles on the Concours. That said, the Concours feels a little zippier (slightly more responsive, faster acceleration, maybe a bit better at climbing).

[jerk]

just say no to plug and play carbon fiber bits!! the st adds money and weight...but at least it takes away snap and rigidity without improving ride quality. the only time carbon stays make sense is when the builder is using them to increase rear end rigidity without sacrificing ride quality too much....maybe this is why the pinarello prince/sl/dogma actually work while the rest of the moronic junk is just that....moronic junk....talk to any colnago sponsered pro...the difference between dream and dream b-stay? a little more snap with the b-stay....people think carbon equals comfort.....geometry equals everything and carbon equals (in mosot cases) marketing...

jerk

[Jay Torborg]

The geometry on my two bikes is exactly the same, so the material clearly has something to do with the ride in my case. I have compared the bikes with everything else being equal.

[Smiley]

Len ,you need a drink of Kool Aid my friend if you were not impressed with the DKS system. It was not intended for your purpose if you wanted the stiffest rear end you could get. Its too late anyway as you can't have a DKS no more . You'll have to hear Stewball , Wanker and I talk about it along with the Other lucky owners of said bike frame. That is why its a DEAD product, mis-understood .

[Russ]

I went through the same dilemma when I recently ordered my new Legend (with better geometry). I have an Ottrott ST with about 200 miles on it by now and I really like what I have experienced so far... But I also have a CSI and had a Legend (now sold) which I have owned for over two years. The ride feel of my CSI is a dream and I really enjoyed my Legend as well, this bike felt like a "light-weight CSI".

I agree with the jerk in terms of geometry, it plays an important part in how the bike feels. But I am not so black and white in my opinions....

This is what I think:

1) The ST stay Ottrott feels much more "spongy" on the rear than my other bikes. I do not think this is solely because the carbon. I think it has a lot to do with the pivoting mechanism as well. As a matter of fact, I wonder how a ST stay would feel if it was made with another material (?).

2) When I climb on the saddle, I really could not tell a whole lot of difference (in the rear that is) between my bikes, with the exception of weight, of course. But I DO feel a BIG difference when I get of the saddle, however! The Ottrott just goes with you... I feel that I have to drag the CSI a bit when I climb.

3) If I had to choose a bike for a long (mostly flat) ride of 80 or 100+ miles, I would go with my full steel CSI, no questions asked! For the same ride with some hills, I would pick the Legend. But for a shorter ride with a bit of everything, the Ottrott goes!

4) Cornering, on-the-saddle climbing, sprinting, etc. on my Legend always felt very good. IMO, the Legend has been one of the best (climbing) bikes I have ever had! If they could make that BB area just a bit stiffer.... I really would have a hard time justifying and Ottrott... or an ST stay for that matter.

When I sold my old Legend and re-ordered the new one, I felt I did not want to have a "half-Ottrott"; I wanted to have three distinctive bikes, so the ST stay had to go! I decided to use the extra money on custom decals and better fork.

I am certain my new Legend is surely going to give the Ottrott a run-for-the-money! As both both bike's geometries will be very close. I will keep you all informed.

Cheers!

[SPOKE]

now for some more confusion................which chain stay do you pick to go with that ST seat stay. there are 3 different one to choos from now if my info is correct.
most of the demo bikes are built with the standard "s-bend" chain stays along with the standard ST seat stay. this setup is way more firm that similar DKS rear setup but may not be firm enuf for you. mine is built with the new "OS s-bend chain stays and standard ST seat stay. all i can say is it really works.
FYI i have one of each of serotta's top shelf frames from the past 5 years and i really like the OTTROTT ST the best of them all. you just need to be sure to really think long and hard if you want soft or firm or extra firm for the rear of the bike.

[Needs Help]

SPOKE,

1)What's the third option?

2)You mentioned the "standard ST" stays. Is there more than one version of ST?

If you're upgrading from a steel bike, what's the best way to figure out what Serotta tube set is equivalent to what you have, so that you can use that as reference for what you desire?

the jerky,

Don't let the facts get in the way. Carbon is a superior material in every way to alloys--accept maybe after wrecking. I know, I read this article:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/Calfee_TWP.pdf

[SPOKE]

Needs Help,
there are 3 different stiffness chain stays available if my info is correct. ther are also 2 different ST seat stays. the stiffest ST seat stay is rarely recommended though.
hope this helps.