Moots CR or Moots RSL ?

[bouddha]

I'm planning on getting a Moots Ti road bike (size 56) and i'm deciding between the RSL and CR.
I have plans to centuries ride on mountain roads and do like to ride aggressively, but also want a bike that is comfortable for a 100+ mile ride for a mature cyclist (52 years old).
I'm climbing addict !!!
If anyone that has rode both could cime in on the differant ride quitly and "feel" of each bike that would be great or, perhaps, that the owners of CR or RSL can give me their opinions on their frame.

[Matthew]

I have a 2009 Compact, which is essentially the same as the CR. I find it to be a great all around bike. Comfortable, stiff enough, and a great ride overall. I think you would be happy with the CR for your climbing addiction and it is a great choice for centuries and long days in the saddle. I did the Michigan Mountain Mayhem on mine last summer. This ride of course does not really include any real mountains but did have almost 7000ft. of climbing in just over 100 miles. I found the bike to be perfect for that ride. A few hills were 15-20 percent gradient so there were some challenges along the route. The RSL will be stiffer and likely quite comfortable too, though I have not ridden one. My opinion would be to get the CR and use the money saved on the frame to help pay for a light set of climbing wheels. Plus, the CR has a threaded bottom bracket. I personally am not sold on the whole pressed fit type due to creaks and such. You won't be disappointed with either. Moots makes a fine frame. Matthew.

[bluesea]

For me the threaded BB makes the deal.

Still I'm pretty intrigued with the RSL (and hoping it doesn't go any further than that). Read somewhere a Moots salesman said the CR for centuries, the RSL for 40mi(!) -- which doesn't sound right.

Wonder how it compares with the CAAD 10, which was no probs for 150ish mi.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm planning on getting a Moots Ti road bike (size 56) and i'm deciding between the RSL and CR.
I have plans to centuries ride on mountain roads and do like to ride aggressively, but also want a bike that is comfortable for a 100+ mile ride for a mature cyclist (52 years old).
I'm climbing addict !!!
If anyone that has rode both could cime in on the differant ride quitly and "feel" of each bike that would be great or, perhaps, that the owners of CR or RSL can give me their opinions on their frame.

Opinion for sure but I would say RSL, with fatter tubes, would be a wee bit stiffer overall.

Might look st Vamoots also. Little more 'gentlemanly' geometry, longer stays, longer headtube per size.

[pdmtong]

Fwiw the rsl frame will be about 200g lighter than the same size CR

[oldpotatoe]

I'm planning on getting a Moots Ti road bike (size 56) and i'm deciding between the RSL and CR.
I have plans to centuries ride on mountain roads and do like to ride aggressively, but also want a bike that is comfortable for a 100+ mile ride for a mature cyclist (52 years old).
I'm climbing addict !!!
If anyone that has rode both could cime in on the differant ride quitly and "feel" of each bike that would be great or, perhaps, that the owners of CR or RSL can give me their opinions on their frame.

In Colorado? Shop in Boulder has all 3 for demo.

[thunderworks]

My riding buddy just went from a Lynskey 430 to a Moots RSL. He loved his Lynskey, but as soon as he rode the RSL, he decided to sell the Lynskey. He's a pretty strong rider, although not a long time experienced rider.

I'm not able to comment on, or compare to the Moots CR., but I have a suspicion that the Lynskey performs somewhat similarly to the CR. It's a fast, light efficient bike with a conventional threaded BB.

My buddies comments on the RSL are that the bike is both more comfortable, and noticeably faster than the Lynskey. I attribute the speed perception to the BB30. I don't know what to attribute the increased comfort perception to.

The RSL is really a sick light bike. His weighs about 15lbs with SRAM Red on it and Zipp 202 clinchers. It's a lovely bike.

[sashae]

I owned a Vamoots and test rode a Vamoots RSL, and now own a PsychloX RSL. The Vamoots RSL was dramatically stiffer than the standard Vamoots, and felt /urgent/ I'm a way that mine did not - pedaling effort immediately translated to acceleration in a way that was much more direct
than the standard bike, and I dearly loved the standard Vamoots. The PX RSL is less stiff through the BB than the Vamoots RSL I demo'd - I can only attribute that to the lack of a chainstay bridge on the cross frame.

Honestly, the bikes are really really superior ride quality wise, it's largely a question of whether you prefer the firmer ride. The feel to me of these bikes is still better than most carbon frames I've ridden (slightly more forgiving/definitely more lively-zingy feeling, a benefit of metal frames IMO) but the RSL is certainly more stiff.

Hope this is slightly helpful - bike feel stuff is so personal, and when you're talking about bikes this good it's a game of millimeters in difference.

[dogdriver]

Not in your choice set, but...

I have a 2009 Vamoots, have ridden it in several multi-day tours with nothing but giddy praise. Wonderful handling, ridiculous stability and predictability, uber comfort. Moots rocks.

[Vamoots58]

and LOVE it! Handles spectacularly, i find it a very efficeient ride. I'm turning 50 this year and was going to celebrate with an RSL. Ultimately I went a very different direction (Colnago C59), but have zero plans to part with the Vamoots. I cannot comment directly on the ride compsrison between the RSL and CR, but can confidently say you will not be disappointed with the CR.

[civdic]

I have an new RSL and I love it. I came from a Time NXR-2 and I find the Moots much more connected to the road. It's my first ti bike. I'm glad I made the move to ti. I road the both the CR and RSL and for my weight I chose the RSL for a bit more stiffness in the BB but I went with the 1 1/8 head tube instead of the 44 mm to soften the ride. Moots quality and service have been excellent.

[redir]

I have not ridden an RSL but I have a Compact which as mentioned before is probably very similiar to the CR. The RSL is a double butted frame which will be lighter. Personally I like the threaded bottom bracket and it looks like the RSL headset is internal which is a no go for me. I race my compact, train, do cookie rides, gravel rides, commute etc... It really is an all rounder. I can go fast for a one hour criterium or sit on it all day for a century ride. IMO stiff is over rated and doesn't really transfer power to the drive train any better. It may 'feel' like it does and it certainly is marketed that way but the frame is a spring so you store energy into it and it's released. But a stiff bike definitely has a different feel. I like flexy bikes. The Compact is no wear near as flexy as my steel bikes but it has enough for all day comfort.

[happycampyer]

I've owned a Vamoots SL, a Compact SL and currently have an RSL (which I am in the process of selling). For 100+ mile rides, I personally would not get the RSL. The RSL is a fantastic bike, but it's a very stiff race bike. The RSL will lure you if you test ride it—when you stand up on the pedals, the bike feels like it lurches forward. The Vamoots and CR have a more subdued ride quality which might not grab you the way the RSL does, but over long distances you will feel fresher.

The other thing to consider is the geometry—it gets progressively more aggressive as you go Vamoots>CR>RSL (unless you get custom geometry). Such a great company, and the nicest folks. Good luck with your choice.

[bouddha]

What about the creaks with BB30 bearings ?
Do you some bad experiences of creaks with an RSL frame ?
Thx.

[poff]

I have both. The reason - you cannot put s&s couplers on RSL. RSL is very comfy and stiff at the same time. It is true that it flies right out of the gate. I have done many rides on it longer than 75mi and many with more than 10K of climbing and its stiffness was never a problem. I have King bb30 with SISL and they never creak. I use CR for travel and traveled with it all over Alps and Australia. It feels softer and more recreational, but I still like it. BTW, I still prefer TiFLW to both of my Moots bikes.

[jpw]

TiFLW

what's this?

[bluesea]

IF Ti Factory Lightweight

[bouddha]

I've owned a Vamoots SL, a Compact SL and currently have an RSL (which I am in the process of selling). For 100+ mile rides, I personally would not get the RSL. The RSL is a fantastic bike, but it's a very stiff race bike. The RSL will lure you if you test ride it—when you stand up on the pedals, the bike feels like it lurches forward. The Vamoots and CR have a more subdued ride quality which might not grab you the way the RSL does, but over long distances you will feel fresher.

The other thing to consider is the geometry—it gets progressively more aggressive as you go Vamoots>CR>RSL (unless you get custom geometry). Such a great company, and the nicest folks. Good luck with your choice.

Is the Compact SL your favorite Bike ? And why?
(My favourite ride are long distance (100+ mile ride) on mountains roads).
Not too harsh in the rear triangle with Ti 6/4 and the compact geometry ?
I love flexy bike, lively but also responsiveness and quickness...
I love the springiness of my steel bike, springiness lacking in a carbon bike.

[bouddha]

IF Ti Factory Lightweight

Do you have a pics for information ?

[kevinvc]

If this thread has persuaded anyone who owns any of these Moots styles to sell it and switch to one of the others, please let me know. I'd love to have any of the above! :banana:

[zap]

I have King bb30 with SISL and they never creak..

King as in Chris King BB (PF30?) with Cannondale's SISL crank?

[poff]

Do you have a pics for information ?

Crappy picture, sorry.

[poff]

King as in Chris King BB (PF30?) with Cannondale's SISL crank?

Correct.

[11.4]

I recently added a PsychoX RSL to my active stable and it's gotten a fair amount of mileage, long and short, both racing, gravel, and road. I've had a series of Serotta Legends, IF Ti frames, etc. etc., so I'm familiar with the ride of titanium as well as steel and carbon.

The RSL has some limitations you just need to be comfortable with -- they don't do an internal top tube routing on it, they can't do S&S couplers, and they apparently don't do braze-ons for fenders, race numbers, etc. It's minor but the RSL doesn't have a hole in the bottom bracket, so you need to drill one yourself. It comes with 140 mm rear disc mounts, so you have to use a spacer if you want 160's (and the best rotors like the Iso Shimano Ice only come in 160 and 180 mm). If you want Di2, note that the entry hole on the down tube is on the side about where an old-style down-tube shift lever would be -- and that makes it a long jump before the wire can be attached to a cable housing. I don't like that. It should come out on the left side right below where the rear brake housing leaves the top tube so it can be protected and attached to a cable that moves with it as the headset turns.

The RSL does have a 44 mm head tube, but that means you can use a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2" steer. I'd frankly just go with an Enve one rather than the Moots -- I have the Enve and think it's magnificent. With that steer, the bottom race (which takes all the beating) on a King is still external and the rear is internal so you can get a slightly lower position if you want it. Either way, the King 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 headset is superb and there's zero reason not to go with it. (Actually, that headset isn't available in sotto voce, so you have to put up with lettering visible on the lower cup. I'm sure that killed this setup for some of you.)

I've used PF30 on mine and had no problems -- that's with a King PF30 bottom bracket and the King adapters for Dura Ace cranks.

The ride is superb. It's noticeably stiffer than other ti frames I've ridden (in terms of ability to translate pedaling into speed), including various other Moots frames, but it's not at all uncomfortable. Vertical compliance is very good. Handling is very good at speed -- the bike actually steers turns better at speed where most frames tend to fade out and at least with my fit, the weight balance is superb so it doesn't get squirrelly on steep slopes.

[bouddha]

Do you think the larger sizes (57 and more), always about the RSL , are a little more comfortable ? Geometry is less compact and agressive in these sizes.
Because in the Press tests (in general, they test the size 58), the journalists find this frame very comfortable .

[deluxerider]

I have a press fit 30 on my bike. I have never had any creaking issues, but I do use a King PF30 bb. The aluminum cups are going to make a difference as opposed to the delrin cups of most PF30 bb's. Also, I'd bet a builder like Moots will machine their bb to a higher tolerance than you might get with say a carbon frame that was built in China.


What about the creaks with BB30 bearings ?
Do you some bad experiences of creaks with an RSL frame ?
Thx.

[zap]

Correct.

Ah yes, I remember now. The SISL2 crankset uses a different chainring lockring compared to native BB30.

The Moots RSL is the one ti machine that intrigues me.

[bouddha]

An overwhelming majority voted for the CR.
The choice is tricky ...
Or maybe a Custom RSL with a less aggressive geometry like a Vamoots classic or that between CR and vamoots is possibly the solution for more comfort ...

[gearguywb]

I have owned both and still ride a couple of year old RSL (with the standard HT).

What do you weigh (if you don't mind me asking)? IMHO the riders weight has a definite impact on how stiff the overall feel of the bike is.

The other big question is wheels. Depending on how you set yourself up with wheels a bike can be made to feel stiffer or more forgiving.

As a 215lb guy I am a big fan of the RSL. I either use a set of 40mm carbon rims (for go faster days) or a nice set of hand builts for a great ride.

[teleguy57]

As a 215lb guy I am a big fan of the RSL. I either use a set of 40mm carbon rims (for go faster days) or a nice set of hand builts for a great ride.

Would love to so photos of your RSL with the carbon wheels. Clinchers or tubulars? Inquiring minds want to know:)

[bouddha]

I have owned both and still ride a couple of year old RSL (with the standard HT).

What do you weigh (if you don't mind me asking)? IMHO the riders weight has a definite impact on how stiff the overall feel of the bike is.

The other big question is wheels. Depending on how you set yourself up with wheels a bike can be made to feel stiffer or more forgiving.

As a 215lb guy I am a big fan of the RSL. I either use a set of 40mm carbon rims (for go faster days) or a nice set of hand builts for a great ride.

About my weigh : between 163lb (Summer period) and 168lb (christmas holidays ).
And for my wheels : Shimano Dura ace 9000 C24.

I understand that you no longer have the RSL.
What were your impressions?
Is it compliant on the seatstays?
Which do you prefer between CR and RSL models?
Thx

[happycampyer]

Is the Compact SL your favorite Bike ? And why?
(My favourite ride are long distance (100+ mile ride) on mountains roads).
Not too harsh in the rear triangle with Ti 6/4 and the compact geometry ?
I love flexy bike, lively but also responsiveness and quickness...
I love the springiness of my steel bike, springiness lacking in a carbon bike.I sold the Compact SL several years ago so, no, it isn't my favorite bike. :). But asking others about their preferences is a bit like asking others about their preferences about food. To use a(n admittedly imperfect) food analogy, the progression from Vamoots > Vamoots CR > Vamoots RSL is a bit like milk > bittersweet > dark chocolate, or cappuccino > coffee > espresso. Some people will generally prefer one over another, or will prefer one over another based on mood, etc. The RSL is a fantastic bike. I think your choice should come down to what you're looking for in a bike—unless you know someone well enough to understnd their preferences, it's hard to get meaningful advice. For example, I often let friends ride my bikes and they sometimes prefer the ones I've sold to ones I've kept.

[gearguywb]

About my weigh : between 163lb (Summer period) and 168lb (christmas holidays ).
And for my wheels : Shimano Dura ace 9000 C24.

I understand that you no longer have the RSL.
What were your impressions?
Is it compliant on the seatstays?
Which do you prefer between CR and RSL models?
Thx

I do still have the RSL. I have had it longer than any other bike...and frankly have no idea what would cause me to get rid of it.

I much prefer the RSL to the CR. Nothing bad about the CR, but the RSL just feels more "sporty". I think it makes a huge difference when choosing wheels how the bike will behave.

[alioup]

I demo'd an RSL today. Ive ridden a bunch of various materials including other ti. The RSL was one of the best bikes I've ever ridden. The only negative thing about it would be some slight flex (like barely noticeable when compared to my alu crit bike) when all-out sprinting. The RSL is currently at the top of my list for my next bike.

[etu]

I sold the Compact SL several years ago so, no, it isn't my favorite bike. :). But asking others about their preferences is a bit like asking others about their preferences about food. To use a(n admittedly imperfect) food analogy, the progression from Vamoots > Vamoots CR > Vamoots RSL is a bit like milk > bittersweet > dark chocolate, or cappuccino > coffee > espresso. Some people will generally prefer one over another, or will prefer one over another based on mood, etc. The RSL is a fantastic bike. I think your choice should come down to what you're looking for in a bike—unless you know someone well enough to understnd their preferences, it's hard to get meaningful advice. For example, I often let friends ride my bikes and they sometimes prefer the ones I've sold to ones I've kept.

Words of wisdom.
I've also learned to give each new bike or major component at least a six month probationary period. The "new bike effect" can really cloud your judgement at the outset. A lot of the snap, liveliness, vertical compliance, etc. seems to originate between the ears rather than from the diameter of the downtube or the width of the rims.

[bouddha]

Feeling is still very personal but it is very interesting to compare the views of members with those journalists who are testing bikes ..... And seeing as sometimes they diverge.