Carmichael knew about PED use

[malbecman]

I always suspected he knew about Armstrong's usage...how could you be someone's personal coach/trainer and not know?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/04/news/names-drop-usps-doping-silence-prevails_323683


I guess we'll see now that this is public news....

[StephenCL]

How long is it going to take before everyone gets the fact that everyone knew about it, everyone was doing it, and quite frankly I think it's an absolute freakin farce that the UCI, USA cycling, and the ASO continue to portray it as if it is all some big secret and conspiracy...

It's like the elephant in the room, that had been in the room since early 1994 with EPO at least....

We need to move on....Cookson needs to step up, give Lance his titles back, call the last 20 years the dark ages of cycling, and try to build a better future....

Anyone that pretends they didn't know what was going on in the peloton.....is lying.

[christian]

I never thought he was anything more than a beard for Michele Ferrari.

[cash05458]

of course the guy knew...PLEASE! but yeah, he was never more than a beard in sense of the hanger on via doping...he certainly promoted...I will have to go reread his training in 7 hours or less a week book or whatever it was called and find clues...certainly, blood transfusions and epo would help alot via that plan...christ, with that sorta help and philosophy I might be able to make the local top 50 via the masters cat...

[cash05458]

I always suspected he knew about Armstrong's usage...how could you be someone's personal coach/trainer and not know?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/04/news/names-drop-usps-doping-silence-prevails_323683


I guess we'll see now that this is public news....

lol...gee, what gave it away?:)

[cash05458]

total WWF stuff this...kinda funny actually at this point...

[oldpotatoe]

How long is it going to take before I everyone gets the fact that everyone knew about it, everyone was doing it, and quite frankly I think it's an absolute freakin farce that the. UCI, USA cycling, and the ASO continue to portray it as if it is all some big secret and conspiracy...

It's like the elephant in the room, that had been in the room since early 1994 with EPO at least....

We need to move on....Cookson needs to step up, give Lance his titles back, call the last 20 years the dark ages of cycling, and try to build a better future....

Anyone that pretends they didn't know what was going on in the pelOton.....is lying.

Fify

[carpediemracing]

I never thought he was anything more than a beard for Michele Ferrari.

Funny. Floyd Landis has a way with words. This was in Daniel Coyle's book "Lance Armstrong's War" when Coyle asked various USPS team members who was Armstrong's coach, Ferarri or Carmichael.

Re: Carmichael. He was allegedly a/the coach that injected that Junior National Team member who settled out of court, my memory is failing me so I don't know the name, tall guy, blonde hair. Extract of cortisone was the big thing - there is no extract of cortisone and cortisone is a steroid and illegal back then and still is illegal now.

Anyway the coach's name etc was blanked out back then.

[e-RICHIE]

...my memory is failing me so I don't know the name, <cut>


It was Strock and Kaiter, and probably every other resident athlete at the Springs atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

;);):p
:p:p;)
:rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:

[ptourkin]

The shoe was always going to fall on Carmichael. Like people have said, he created his brand via his supposed meticulous and tailored use of data-- how can he have had it both ways?

Now for that Skratch guy...

[BumbleBeeDave]

How long is it going to take before everyone gets the fact that everyone knew about it, everyone was doing it, and quite frankly I think it's an absolute freakin farce that the UCI, USA cycling, and the ASO continue to portray it as if it is all some big secret and conspiracy...

It's like the elephant in the room, that had been in the room since early 1994 with EPO at least....

We need to move on....Cookson needs to step up, give Lance his titles back, call the last 20 years the dark ages of cycling, and try to build a better future....

Anyone that pretends they didn't know what was going on in the peloton.....is lying.

. . . except give Lance his titles back. Armstrong's behavior and ringleader status puts him a level above the others and he deserves nothing--except bankruptcy and obscurity.

BBD

[don compton]

. . . Except give lance his titles back. Armstrong's behavior and ringleader status puts him a level above the others and he deserves nothing--except bankruptcy and obscurity.

Bbd
amen!!!!!!!!

[gianni]

. . . except give Lance his titles back. Armstrong's behavior and ringleader status puts him a level above the others and he deserves nothing--except bankruptcy and obscurity.

BBD

One more ditto, we'll said....gotta love my favorite Mennonite FL.:hello:

Now, how about friendly wagers whether Thomas Wiesel and company will suffer fallout?

[Tandem Rider]

It was Strock and Kaiter, and probably every other resident athlete at the Springs atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

;);):p
:p:p;)
:rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:
It was more than that, and that's not according to my opinion.

[CunegoFan]

Now, how about friendly wagers whether Thomas Wiesel and company will suffer fallout?

I don't think he will suffer beyond a possible settlement. Och and others would have to be sucked in to solidify the links to Weisel. The way Armstrong is dragging everything out, a lot of this will be irrelevant by the time it is confirmed by Armstrong. Sure Carmichael is a scumbag but the black marks against him are twenty to twenty-five years old. At some point it becomes ridiculous to be pursuing skeletons from decades in the past as current dopers make a mockery of the sport with their marginal gains BS.

Weisel has the means to settle if he does not like the way things are headed. I guess the question is whether Landis's lawyers can make him uncomfortable enough to cough up some dough.

[tylerbick]

Sad to see Mark Gorski's name in there.

[gianni]

I don't think he will suffer beyond a possible settlement. Och and others would have to be sucked in to solidify the links to Weisel. The way Armstrong is dragging everything out, a lot of this will be irrelevant by the time it is confirmed by Armstrong. Sure Carmichael is a scumbag but the black marks against him are twenty to twenty-five years old. At some point it becomes ridiculous to be pursuing skeletons from decades in the past as current dopers make a mockery of the sport with their marginal gains BS.

Weisel has the means to settle if he does not like the way things are headed. I guess the question is whether Landis's lawyers can make him uncomfortable enough to cough up some dough.

Agreed, but it makes me wonder why Och still has a job along with others. I'm not a fan of BMC.

[54ny77]

wow, and here i thought his major innovation was high cadence pedaling.

:rolleyes:

[bluesea]

How long is it going to take before everyone gets the fact that everyone knew about it, everyone was doing it, and quite frankly I think it's an absolute freakin farce that the UCI, USA cycling, and the ASO continue to portray it as if it is all some big secret and conspiracy...

It's like the elephant in the room, that had been in the room since early 1994 with EPO at least....

We need to move on....Cookson needs to step up, give Lance his titles back, call the last 20 years the dark ages of cycling, and try to build a better future....

Anyone that pretends they didn't know what was going on in the peloton.....is lying.



Absolutely. To focus on any particular rider or riders is a distraction from the systemic nature of the problem. Pure and simple, it spells failure.

[soulspinner]

How long is it going to take before everyone gets the fact that everyone knew about it, everyone was doing it, and quite frankly I think it's an absolute freakin farce that the UCI, USA cycling, and the ASO continue to portray it as if it is all some big secret and conspiracy...

It's like the elephant in the room, that had been in the room since early 1994 with EPO at least....

We need to move on....Cookson needs to step up, give Lance his titles back, call the last 20 years the dark ages of cycling, and try to build a better future....

Anyone that pretends they didn't know what was going on in the peloton.....is lying.

Yup

[soulspinner]

lol...gee, what gave it away?:)

Perhaps the makeup on the syringe holes?

[Black Dog]

Agreed, but it makes me wonder why Och still has a job along with others. I'm not a fan of BMC.

Bruyneel and Siaz shown the door when implicated. Och may be next. There are many directors that have seen and done as much but have not been outed.

[dekindy]

. . . except give Lance his titles back. Armstrong's behavior and ringleader status puts him a level above the others and he deserves nothing--except bankruptcy and obscurity.

BBD

Why penalize him extra just because he was the better at it than anyone else? Anybody else in his position would have done the same thing. If he had not come back and snubbed Landis all would be well.

[Black Dog]

Why penalize him extra just because he was the better at it than anyone else? Anybody else in his position would have done the same thing. If he had not come back and snubbed Landis all would be well.

Do you mean the doping or the malicious bullying and character assassinations?

[FlashUNC]

How long is it going to take before everyone gets the fact that everyone knew about it, everyone was doing it, and quite frankly I think it's an absolute freakin farce that the UCI, USA cycling, and the ASO continue to portray it as if it is all some big secret and conspiracy...

It's like the elephant in the room, that had been in the room since early 1994 with EPO at least....

We need to move on....Cookson needs to step up, give Lance his titles back, call the last 20 years the dark ages of cycling, and try to build a better future....

Anyone that pretends they didn't know what was going on in the peloton.....is lying.

This is the reason I lost any all respect I had for Jens Voight. The omerta is broken guys, no point in doing the "I knew nothing" bit now other than to save your skin in the inevitable lawsuits.

[PQJ]

Why penalize him extra just because he was the better at it than anyone else? Anybody else in his position would have done the same thing. If he had not come back and snubbed Landis all would be well.

Not sure you can say anyone else would've done the same thing. Many doped; a few didn't. There weren't that many doping pricks like Lance though. But I agree fully - wonder how many times Lance thinks to himself "if only I'da hooked Floyd up with a ride"?

This is the reason I lost any all respect I had for Jens Voight. The omerta is broken guys, no point in doing the "I knew nothing" bit now other than to save your skin in the inevitable lawsuits.

Yep. Like many, I used to be a big fan of Jens. Now, when I see him, I just think "shut up Jens."

[Joachim]

Why penalize him extra just because he was the better at it than anyone else? Anybody else in his position would have done the same thing. If he had not come back and snubbed Landis all would be well.

Horse...dead....beaten...

[Lewis Moon]

Horse...dead....beaten...

Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....

[William]

Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....
Resurrected, beaten....

http://thorgolucky.com/images/smiles/smiley_beat_dead_horse2.gif
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs6/i/2005/064/c/0/Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif
http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10404/deadhorse.gif
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads17/beatdeadhorse51277151977.gif
http://www.sincitywickedfjs.com/forum/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif
http://www.helifreak.com/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif
http://cdn.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/NEGATIVE/deadhorse.gif
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/deadhorse.gif
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/235/3/c/Dead_Horse_Icon_by_PencilGoblin.gif

There are many ways to beat a dead horse.:p









William

[54ny77]

would you say there was a plethora of doping?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTUmczVdik&list=RD-mTUmczVdik#t=40

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Slightly OT, but reading Charly Wegelius's book on being a domestique gave me a new perspective on the "everyone was doing it, so the playing field was level" line. Charly had a long-demonstrate naturally high hematocrit level, which I understand is not all that uncommon. As he saw it, doping during the 50-limit era was most helpful for people who had a naturally lower hematocrit level, because they could go from 42 to 49 for a race and see a significant jump in performance. If you had a natural level of 49, there really wasn't anywhere to go. To the extent hematocrit determines performance, then, EPO and other PEDs helped less talented riders more than those with greater genetic talent.

I have no idea whether that's true, but it was an interesting spin on things.

BTW, the Wegelius book is sort of a snore. It's less about life as a domestique and more a whine-fest about how hard it was to be a Brit in the peloton.

[malcolm]

Slightly OT, but reading Charly Wegelius's book on being a domestique gave me a new perspective on the "everyone was doing it, so the playing field was level" line. Charly had a long-demonstrate naturally high hematocrit level, which I understand is not all that uncommon. As he saw it, doping during the 50-limit era was most helpful for people who had a naturally lower hematocrit level, because they could go from 42 to 49 for a race and see a significant jump in performance. If you had a natural level of 49, there really wasn't anywhere to go. To the extent hematocrit determines performance, then, EPO and other PEDs helped less talented riders more than those with greater genetic talent.

I have no idea whether that's true, but it was an interesting spin on things.

BTW, the Wegelius book is sort of a snore. It's less about life as a domestique and more a whine-fest about how hard it was to be a Brit in the peloton.

It's not all about HCT it's also what your body does with the O2 it carries and there you get into VO2 max and the like. I agree with your premise but it's far more complicated.

[cash05458]

Slightly OT, but reading Charly Wegelius's book on being a domestique gave me a new perspective on the "everyone was doing it, so the playing field was level" line. Charly had a long-demonstrate naturally high hematocrit level, which I understand is not all that uncommon. As he saw it, doping during the 50-limit era was most helpful for people who had a naturally lower hematocrit level, because they could go from 42 to 49 for a race and see a significant jump in performance. If you had a natural level of 49, there really wasn't anywhere to go. To the extent hematocrit determines performance, then, EPO and other PEDs helped less talented riders more than those with greater genetic talent.

I have no idea whether that's true, but it was an interesting spin on things.

BTW, the Wegelius book is sort of a snore. It's less about life as a domestique and more a whine-fest about how hard it was to be a Brit in the peloton.

altho off topic...I thought Wegelius' book really a good read...

[Ti Designs]

Slightly OT, but reading Charly Wegelius's book on being a domestique gave me a new perspective on the "everyone was doing it, so the playing field was level" line.

No, everybody wasn't doing it, everybody you've heard of was doing it, and it's been that way for a long, long time. I made it as far as national team selection, but I refused to cheat, so I'm not one of the names you've ever heard about in racing. Carmichael was there the next year, with the same coaching staff and the same decision to make.

There is a sport called cycling that's not about PED use, but it's so overshadowed by the idiots at the top of the sport that nobody seems to notice.