Is a flat battery a "mechanical"?

[Fiertetimestwo]

My partner is a Doctor with an interest in Sports Medicine and was recently the Race Doctor for a 4 day stage race - the Adelaide Tour (not the Tour Down Under- but a major domestic race nonetheless).

She mentioned that on one of the days -when they were doing a circuit race/crit around the City centre- there was an exchange on Race radio where a rider had suffered a flat battery on his Di2/Eps (don't know which) and the Commissaires refused to allow him a lap out because they said it wasn't a "mechanical"?

The Rider/Team was a bit peeved.

Anybody come across this before?

[RedRider]

I call BS. These batteries have long charges and I don't even know novice riders that have run the batteries down. If a pro rider's battery died the mechanic or the rider should be fired! Any team running electric drivetrains has charging dialed into their race prep.

[christian]

That seems legit. A mechanical issue caused by poor maintenance, e.g. a slipping seat post due to a loose bolt does not entitle the rider to a free lap. I don't see why this would be any different.

[bikinchris]

I call BS. These batteries have long charges and I don't even know novice riders that have run the batteries down. If a pro rider's battery died the mechanic or the rider should be fired! Any team running electric drivetrains has charging dialed into their race prep.

Batteries can fail. Just saying. That's only one reason I don't want electric shifting. Yes, I am a luddite when it comes to the idea of charging my bicycle for a ride. I do have a cycling computer, but I don't need that to ride.

[Louis]

I would say yes, it should be considered a "mechanical" problem. Just because it pushes electrons and is "electrical" in nature, doesn't mean it isn't a hardware issue. (or bad maintenance, but so are many mechanical problems)

[FlashUNC]

You wouldn't get any concession for a broken shift cable.

You'd think someone could charge their bits twice a year.

[christian]

I would say yes, it should be considered a "mechanical" problem. Just because it pushes electrons and is "electrical" in nature, doesn't mean it isn't a hardware issue. (or bad maintenance, but so are many mechanical problems)

You don't get a free lap for a broken shifter cable. This seems wholly in line with UCI (and USA cycling) rules.

[RacerJRP]

While this was technically a mechanical issue, I would not expect any love or a "free lap" type of deal during a race. Sorry, better luck next time.

[Louis]

You don't get a free lap for a broken shifter cable. This seems wholly in line with UCI (and USA cycling) rules.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know the rules.

So, what types of failures do get you a free lap?

[christian]

A recognized mishap is a puncture or fall, primarily.

Basically, if the problem can be traced to poor maintentance of the bicycle, such as a cable snapping, an undertorqued bolt, or a tubular rolling off the rim due to a bad glue job, no free lap is granted.

This isn't always adhered to in small events, but them's the rules.

[Louis]

OK, in that case a battery issue is just like any other problem on the bike, and no freebie.

Obviously the rules are intended to help when you have a problem due to something outside of your control.

Maintenance and battery charging are within your control.

[ultraman6970]

Between you and me the guy had to be really lazy to do not put that battery in the charger at least twice a week, and have an extra one in the charger connected all the time.

[shovelhd]

It might be in the seat post, and you don't swap those out. Your point stands though. No excuse.

We had a guy rip the front derailleur mount off his frame. He got a free lap to try and remove it. He failed.

[ultraman6970]

Well fd falling off IMO is a mechanical, not laziness...

Yes i see the point about the seatpost, well those batteries have a plug right? isnt possible to put a plug in the seatpost for the cable that goes to the charger or something? Either way the guy screwed up, you can't go to a race with the thing empty, even if it was almost empty and you knew, shift the less possible and if happens that you ran out of juice, well.. bad luck :) the judges don't have to give you an extra lap for your negligence after all.

[shovelhd]

My seat post battery is custom, so I use a modified charger that connects to the rear derailleur cable. E-tube systems charge through the front junction. Don't know about EPS.

I was OTB in a pro race working with a Cat1 who was in the break but threw his chain. He shifted down to the 39 to get the chain back on and he could not up shift back to the 53 because his battery was flat. He spun like a Junior for as long as he could but could not hold on to the break or the field and eventually ended up with me. I did not sprint at the finish.

[thwart]

This is surprising to hear.

When e-shifting came out, there was all this talk about a charge lasting nearly forever, and even then abundant warning before you actually lost power.

One more reason to stay with mechanical shifting.

Not that I needed it.

[oldpotatoe]

My partner is a Doctor with an interest in Sports Medicine and was recently the Race Doctor for a 4 day stage race - the Adelaide Tour (not the Tour Down Under- but a major domestic race nonetheless).

She mentioned that on one of the days -when they were doing a circuit race/crit around the City centre- there was an exchange on Race radio where a rider had suffered a flat battery on his Di2/Eps (don't know which) and the Commissaires refused to allow him a lap out because they said it wasn't a "mechanical"?

The Rider/Team was a bit peeved.

Anybody come across this before?

As has been mentioned, is a broken shifter cable a 'mechanical'...nope..

I understand losing out for something 'beyond your control', but it's a bike race, pay yer money, take yer chances..if a 'road' race and ya flat, and no spare wheel..do you hitch a ride on the broom wagon, catch up, re enter??

[RedRider]

Between you and me the guy had to be really lazy to do not put that battery in the charger at least twice a week, and have an extra one in the charger connected all the time.

For most riders, twice a YEAR would be good. Never heard a complaint about battery life. There are other reasons you might not want to go 'lectric but the battery argument shouldn't be one...

[FlashUNC]

For most riders, twice a YEAR would be good. Never heard a complaint about battery life. There are other reasons you might not want to go 'lectric but the battery argument shouldn't be one...

Owned my Athena EPS for a year. Charged it once. Now I'm rotating two-three bikes, but that's still a pretty fair deal imo. Unless I turn pro, I don't see how I'd charge this thing more than three times a year.

I was on a ride with a buddy who's less, um, responsible with his charging. Around 7-10 pct charge, EPS started making all sorts of flashing lights and buzzing noises to let him know that the end was nigh. No excuse for someone in a race I think.

[oldpotatoe]

For most riders, twice a YEAR would be good. Never heard a complaint about battery life. There are other reasons you might not want to go 'lectric but the battery argument shouldn't be one...

No, altho Taylor Phinney once came in to see if we had a spare for his 7970 Di2, cuz his battery was dead..but on training bike.

I think a team will check battery charge like they check tire pressure..if flashing green rather than steady-charge.

Di2 teams will need a laptop or more than one, I guess for 9070 Di2..tho..not as simple as just plugging them into a wall, altho I think you can do that like an iphone....and I'll bet Euro non standard electrical outlets are another thing the wrenches gotta think about-having the right plug for the wall.

[DfCas]

Maybe it should be called an "electronical".

[cfox]

No, altho Taylor Phinney once came in to see if we had a spare for his 7970 Di2, cuz his battery was dead..but on training bike.

I think a team will check battery charge like they check tire pressure..if flashing green rather than steady-charge.

Di2 teams will need a laptop or more than one, I guess for 9070 Di2..tho..not as simple as just plugging them into a wall, altho I think you can do that like an iphone....and I'll bet Euro non standard electrical outlets are another thing the wrenches gotta think about-having the right plug for the wall.

No laptop needed for a charge. If you use an external battery with 9070, it uses the identical battery that 7970 used and charges the same way. If internal, the charger plugs into the junction box and can be powered by a wall outlet or USB.

The charge lasts a loooong time...but that actually might be the problem for some people. You need to charge it so infrequently you forget about it entirely.

[oldpotatoe]

No laptop needed for a charge. If you use an external battery with 9070, it uses the identical battery that 7970 used and charges the same way. If internal, the charger plugs into the junction box and can be powered by a wall outlet or USB.

The charge lasts a loooong time...but that actually might be the problem for some people. You need to charge it so infrequently you forget about it entirely.

Nobody, IME, uses an external battery for Di2/9070..I know they exist but....yep, adapter with USB into the wall..but gotta get those software updates!!

[carpediemracing]

I had a rider show up at the race looking for a battery. They charged the battery so infrequently (first time ever?) that they left the battery at home, 2 hours away.

Ωzazazassdddcxfscdd

^that's Junior typing. I don't know how he got the omega thing.

Anyway lack of maintenance doesn't justify a free lap. A failure (say a broken crank arm, to be extreme) would justify a free lap. Flat tire. Broken wheel.

Some are judgment calls. Skipping chain, after a missed shift? That would be tough. Who's to say the chain wasn't damaged already, hence the missed shift? etc.

Some of those free laps makes the assumption that there's a bike in the pits, not just a wheel. I try to put my second bike in the wheel pit because my mechanicals tend to be catastrophic. For the last 4? years I've had 3 bike problems in races - broken saddle (hence my quest to replace my saddles), severely bent chain (and damaged big chainring, no idea how it happened as I didn't drop the chain), broken front derailleur cable mount. Of course in all those instances I didn't have my second bike in the pits. Yeah, oops.

[ptourkin]

I charge my 9070 around 1,500 miles and it's still fine at that point. You really have to work to run one down.

[christian]

Anyway lack of maintenance doesn't justify a free lap. A failure (say a broken crank arm, to be extreme) would justify a free lap. Flat tire. Broken wheel.I checked the Australian rules, for fun. Their examples of a "recognised mishap" are a puncture and a broken frame. So yeah, broken frame, free lap! :)

[cfox]

Nobody, IME, uses an external battery for Di2/9070..I know they exist but....yep, adapter with USB into the wall..but gotta get those software updates!!

I do! I saw no advantage to using an internal battery; one more thing that has a chance to rattle around inside your bike after a big pothole. Mine sits under the down tube and does its job. It's given me many thousands of trouble free miles.

[oldpotatoe]

I do! I saw no advantage to using an internal battery; one more thing that has a chance to rattle around inside your bike after a big pothole. Mine sits under the down tube and does its job. It's given me many thousands of trouble free miles.

Bad choice of words..I prefer an external battery for either setup, Di2 or EPS..if something DOES go wrong, much easier to check connections, etc if the thing isn't stuffed into the seat tube.

My EPS has external battery also, I chose that on purpose so people can see how cool I am..my 'Fiat onna bike'....

[cookietom]

Between you and me the guy had to be really lazy to do not put that battery in the charger at least twice a week, and have an extra one in the charger connected all the time.

I always carry an extra battery in my saddle bag. You never know.....

[cfox]

Bad choice of words..I prefer an external battery for either setup, Di2 or EPS..if something DOES go wrong, much easier to check connections, etc if the thing isn't stuffed into the seat tube.

My EPS has external battery also, I chose that on purpose so people can see how cool I am..my 'Fiat onna bike'....

yup, both excellent reasons, esp. the second. I'd like to see a full body shot of the EPS Merckx^^!

[oldpotatoe]

yup, both excellent reasons, esp. the second. I'd like to see a full body shot of the EPS Merckx^^!

here

[cfox]

Awesome! I like the juxtaposition of a quill stem, deltas and EPS.

[oldpotatoe]

Awesome! I like the juxtaposition of a quill stem, deltas and EPS.

yep, process here

http://s148.photobucket.com/user/chisholm2744/library/?sort=3&page=1