Semi-OT: Where would you start over?

[Nooch]

Update on page 11

I may have posted something similar, maybe not, as I searched and can't seem to find it, but I've long thought about packing up and relocating. We live in one of the most expensive parts of the country, and while we make good money, have never really felt like we'll get ahead. Houses cost too much, taxes are too high, and the job market (for my wife, at least -- education) is lacking.

So where would you go, if you could pack up and move, and start over?

Needs: Good Schools, Decent Jobs, Good Riding, lower cost of living than NJ. We live outside of NYC - so I'd like to say we need some 'culture,' even if it's only visited occasionally... Would like to stay away from places where natural disasters are common -- trying to avoid earthquakes and wild fires, mudslides, tornados, etc. I can deal with occasional hurricanes, I can deal with blizzards.

Places we've discussed, or at least have come up, based on some searches on zillow for home prices include NC (Raleigh?), parts of PA, and well, I'd love to go to Colorado, but I don't think the wife is quite okay with being that far from NY. So I guess it would narrow to the East Coast..

Any thoughts?

edit: please be as specific as possible, lol, so I can go and look at towns and property and such.. :)

[eddief]

Why not? A nice pocket of "smooth" in a not so smooth state.

[christian]

413 and done.

[moose8]

Portland, Maine.
Portsmouth, NH.

Both are nice places.

[FlashUNC]

Why not? A nice pocket of "smooth" in a not so smooth state.

+1 for Asheville. Seems to tick all your boxes. Raleigh and the surrounding area is subject to tornadoes and other kinds of natural phenomena. And for NC, the Raleigh metro is fairly expensive.

Asheville is the best of all worlds imo. Great city atmosphere, low cost of living, biggest worry is snow in the winter. Lots to do outdoors. College town with UNC-Asheville. Not a far drive from Charlotte if you want an NFL/NBA/"big city" fix.

[zap]

Charlottesville.

Housing may not be much less (much depends on your tastes, etc.) but you might get more space. The area is developing nicely and the people are more relaxed.

The riding…..pretty darn nice.

Also, Dulles airport is not too far away.

[joosttx]

Austin TX
Portland OR (Vancouver, WA if you want to maximize your expenses)
Athens GA
Boise ID

Would be my choices

[russ46]

I'll be interested to see where this thread goes. We're not going to move to work but have no interest in the retirement communities, at least for now. We've looked at Ashville NC, Greenville NC & are planning on visiting Knoxville TN. We think an area with good job opportunities, good schools & a well maintained infrastructure are important in maintaining one's house investment. In addition a good riding scene & hills will be a factor.

[malcolm]

Asheville is very nice. How about Austin, Tx.?

[Netdewt]

I'd say Minneapolis/St. Paul fits most of your criteria (except east coast), but of course it can get really cold here.

If I was to go anywhere, personally, I'd probably go to CO.

[Mr. Pink]

Saratoga Springs, NY.

[RonW87]

I know this stuff is normal to Americans but it's strange to much of the rest of the world, where people would need a very good reason to move away from where their family is.

[Nooch]

Asheville proper seems to be a little out of the price range, at least at first glance -- any surrounding areas that might be cheaper? (then again, I didn't look at the taxes in asheville yet, so maybe that would alter my view)

But, Asheville does look pretty cool :)

[MadRocketSci]

France - next door to Velotel

[rwsaunders]

I know this stuff is normal to Americans but it's strange to much of the rest of the world, where people would need a very good reason to move away from where their family is.

Most of our ancestors were thrown out of Europe so we are used to moving...:cool:

[Mr. Pink]

I know this stuff is normal to Americans but it's strange to much of the rest of the world, where people would need a very good reason to move away from where their family is.

Most people are stuck in underwater mortgages and/or their last job (it will be if they quit), so mobility has slowed dramatically. That, and the kids moving back in. We're being forced to be families again.

[druptight]

Portsmouth, NH.

Having lived here, I can tell you that you will not be finding any deals on real estate in Portsmouth. If you're willing to go to one of the neighboring towns and forego the "walk to town" aspect of living in Portsmouth though, there are better deals to be had. Plus if you manage to find work in NH, there's some nice tax benefits to living & working in NH.

[Nooch]

I know this stuff is normal to Americans but it's strange to much of the rest of the world, where people would need a very good reason to move away from where their family is.

It's hard -- and that's why we're still here... but my wife can't find a teaching job, and without that, it's pretty hard to afford a house when the property taxes are $8k+ on a $210k house...

That said, my wife is an only child, and at least one of my in-law's has mentioned that they'd go wherever she goes (both are retired, divorced).

[russ46]

Asheville proper seems to be a little out of the price range, at least at first glance -- any surrounding areas that might be cheaper? (then again, I didn't look at the taxes in asheville yet, so maybe that would alter my view)

But, Asheville does look pretty cool

My wife has done tons of research in the surrounding area. You're right, no bargain prices in Asheville although taxes are a quarter of what we're pay now. Greenville SC prices were much more attractive but other then the Greenville downtown, I though the Asheville area overall was neater. Decisions, decisions.

[brando]

:banana::banana:property taxes are $8k+ on a $210k house...:banana::banana:
And I live in California!

[jmoore]

Texas is full.

[Nooch]

Texas is full.

Ouch! lol

[93legendti]

I may have posted something similar, maybe not, as I searched and can't seem to find it, but I've long thought about packing up and relocating. We live in one of the most expensive parts of the country, and while we make good money, have never really felt like we'll get ahead. Houses cost too much, taxes are too high, and the job market (for my wife, at least -- education) is lacking.

So where would you go, if you could pack up and move, and start over?

Needs: Good Schools, Decent Jobs, Good Riding, lower cost of living than NJ. We live outside of NYC - so I'd like to say we need some 'culture,' even if it's only visited occasionally... Would like to stay away from places where natural disasters are common -- trying to avoid earthquakes and wild fires, mudslides, tornados, etc. I can deal with occasional hurricanes, I can deal with blizzards.

Places we've discussed, or at least have come up, based on some searches on zillow for home prices include NC (Raleigh?), parts of PA, and well, I'd love to go to Colorado, but I don't think the wife is quite okay with being that far from NY. So I guess it would narrow to the East Coast..

Any thoughts?

edit: please be as specific as possible, lol, so I can go and look at towns and property and such.. :)
I would do separate online searches for towns on the east coast with reasonable cost of living, towns with good job markets for teachers and a search for your specific job...

Then, see which towns/states overlap/satisfy your most important requirements.

Good luck. I live in Michigan, I am going to Israel when its time to start over.

[MattTuck]

I often think about relocating... especially after this winter.

The place I dream about is Santa Ynez, CA. But a search on Zillow reveals that most houses there are in the millions of dollars... sooo, that's not happening.


I've found some interesting houses in and around Asheville. Can't comment on the schools and stuff. Also heard good things about Chatanooga. Caution though, as relocating to the South seems like a 1 way trip. Much harder to accumulate the capital needed to make the trip back North.

[malcolm]

I'm in Birmingham, Al.. Hey it's Alabama but it's actually quite nice if you factor in the holy rollers and the occasional redneck. The road riding is growing yearly but I would still rate it considerably sub par. Mtn biking is very good.

Cost of living is low as are taxes. I'm sure teaching jobs abound and the suburbs school systems are very good. My kids go to public school.

[saab2000]

I lived in western Michigan for 6 years and it really grew on me. I left because of my job and the hellacious commute I was making but the area was nicer than people think it ought to be.

Winters are milder than you'd think for the Midwest. Summers are great (long evenings for ridng - extreme western edge of the eastern time zone). Good cycling 8-9 months of the year and plenty of my buddies ride all winter on fat bikes with lights, etc.

I lived in Ada, MI, just east of Grand Rapids. The Forest Hills school district, as well as the East Grand Rapids district are generally thought to be pretty good, but as someone without kids I never put any thought into this other than how it affected the value of my house. That said, I thought it looked decent. And there are a lot of colleges and universities around the area too and Michigan and Michigan State are thought of as pretty high quality schools too.

Can't say much about jobs. I work in aviation on the east coast, hence my bizarre commuting habits that aren't possible for most people.

But for living and riding I enjoyed it for the most part.

Negatives:

Bad roads. Seriously. Bad roads. Detroit is going through some tough times for many reasons. Many communities are in a similar situation in MI but the place and the people seem to be pretty resilient.

Winters can be a bit long, but are not as brutally tough as you might think. There's a massive tempering effect of Lake Michigan, which makes it gray and cloudy a lot but also keeps it 10º on average than the other side of the lake, where I grew up.

I love the Midwest but many easterners think we're a bunch of barbarians. So if you're uppity and need your east coast stuff, you might not find it in MI. The flip side of this is that most people are pretty down to earth and the pace of life is pretty relaxed.

Positives:

Cycling is surprisingly good most of the time. I really enjoyed the riding around Grand Rapids, especially to the east and north. A 'winter bike' with fenders and fat tires extends the riding season a lot. Think off the shelf cross-style bike.

Very affordable. You can buy a lot of house for $250,000 and under. Mine was $100K less and pretty nice for my needs. I don't know about taxes. You'd have to research that yourself. But the general cost of living is lower, substantially, than anywhere I've seen out east.

Good beer! :beer: Founders, Bells, New Holland Brewing... Need I say more?



I don't know about the job market because I never looked. It's not thriving per se, but there is work to be had in certain types of industries and there are some fairly big medical centers in Grand Rapids partially underwritten (if I'm not mistaken) by some of the families involved in the Amway empire, which is located about 3 miles from where I used to live. I was neighbors (within a mile or two) to several billionaires (with a B) and they give back to their community.

It's not a bad place and summers there are awesome. If my airline were to reopen a base in Chicago I might well move back for the reasons I mentioned. But my situation is pretty unique too. But something to look at at least.

Here are some pics I took about 11 months ago on a ride. I definitely miss the riding there. A bad ride there is better than a good one where I currently live. I know that's not the only factor, but it's better than you might think when you think Michigan.

[joosttx]

Try Madison Ga. It's near Athens but a little more home towny. Probably could get a decent home for $180.

[SPOKE]

Salaries for public school teachers in NC are pretty low. The overall job climate in the larger cities in NC is pretty good but salaries in general will be lower compared to where you live now. That said, the overall cost of living is still lower.
I live in Raleigh and love it. Just big enuf and close to the coast and mountains. We still have plenty of good riding around here too.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Also heard good things about Chatanooga. Caution though, as relocating to the South seems like a 1 way trip. Much harder to accumulate the capital needed to make the trip back North.

Chattanooga has been pretty good to us for the last 14 years... but there is some truth to the idea of the move south as a "1 way trip". We came down here from Seattle with a 5 year plan (before that Santa Cruz, CA and Southern, CT - all very expensive), and now often feel we could never afford to leave.

Some of the best private schools in the country are located here, and with VW and their suppliers moving in, the economy is doing well. Quite a bit of culture (more every year) and some really good riding too.

Check it out here: http://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/best-towns/Sweet-HomeChattanooga.html

Cheers,
KP

[Mr. Pink]

Texas is full.

Of what? (couldn't help myself)

[Netdewt]

but my wife can't find a teaching job

That would be tough to find here, though maybe in Minneapolis or St. Paul school district, or farther out. Schools are excellent here. Taxes are maybe high to some? I don't know - mine are under $2500 on a modest 1st ring suburban house and small lot.

It's a good place to live, except for in January. Though more and more are biking year round. If you like lakes, we have a whole lot of those.

We have tons of suburbs. The cities themselves (M/SP) are fairly small in comparison to the larger cities in the country, but the metro area is like #16 or something. Nicer areas of Minneapolis are in the South and Southwest. Northeast is where you'll find fixies and art studios. Nice suburbs all around, but they are suburbs. West and South are what I know.

Just go to Judgmental Maps for city info - haha:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/9008cf0ac8f03c30e47ad41ca1ccf195/tumblr_mhz56ec6mM1s4df8ko1_1280.png

[Netdewt]

Of what? (couldn't help myself)

Gigantic styrofoam cups.

[nighthawk]

I'll concur with the 413 (Western Mass) recommendation, as it is where I am currently living (though scheming to leave, just like yourself).

Overall I have a favorable impression of the place, been here for 3 years, having spent the previous 5 in Providence, RI.

I can say that it would likely work for you in most of your "needs" of a locality, though I personally find the cost of living, housing specifically, on the high side. Towns like Easthampton and closer to Holyoke/Springfield have more affordable housing, but in general it is somewhat expensive.

Riding is top notch: Plenty of open roads, plenty of climbing, plenty of dirt, some good mountain biking, easy access to Vermont if you want to go even higher. Plenty of bike culture: Annual cross races, clubs, a few mostly average bike shops, LOTS of organized rides, brevet series, etc. etc.

Education work might be dicey (my gf is/was a teacher). She was able to substitute with some regularity, but FT positions seem few and far between unless willing to commute to Springfield (~30 mins, assuming Northampton vicinity as a starting point). She works in a museum currently, while constantly on the lookout for a FT art education position. Depending on your wife's chosen teaching level, she may have better luck. Early education and university level seem to have more consistently open positions. I don't know what your profession is, but if you happen to work for the federal govt, we are lumped into the Hartford locality area, so our COLA is actually higher than NYC.

Fresh food/local produce is off the charts, CSAs and farmers markets all over the place, if you are into that sort of thing. Though surprisingly I find the restaurants to be severely lacking. I may have been spoiled by Providence... but when I get the urge to go out, there really are no stand out AMAZING places to eat, no matter what the cost.

Another "pro" for you might be the vicinity to NY. Literally, western MA feels like a suburb of NYC with so many transplants and weekenders. My personal opinion aside, it is definitely convenient to drive between for long weekends or regular visits (~3 hours drive), and bus and train service between them. Also, ~2 hours to Boston or Providence, ~1 hour to Hartford (Bradley Intl Airport), and ~4.5 hours to Montreal.

I could list some "cons", but this post is getting toward unreadabley long. If you have any specific questions, fire away!

EDIT: Did I mention it's f'n beautiful here?
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zC-tA_gRldI/UmQ7DHX-0FI/AAAAAAAACYU/TgsjmOQ4GsQ/w771-h576-no/-5.jpg

[nighthawk]

Of what? (couldn't help myself)

Tejas is hoarding America's testosterone.

T is for....

[Climb01742]

in my experience, good jobs and cheap housing do not go together. lower cost of living usually means lower paying jobs.

portland, maine is a cool place (and downright cold in winter) and some of the surrounding towns/suburbs have great schools. but as i can attest from personal experience, trying to find a well paying job there ain't easy.

it's a real catch 22. the places we most want to live, we can't find work in. and many great, well paying jobs are in places that exact both a financial and psychic toll.

[Nooch]

The 413 seems interesting -- but I'm not sure if affordable. I grew up in CT (Fairfield County), lived in Manchester CT while I went to UConn, my sister went to Smith, so I've spent a fair amount of time in the Northampton/Holyoke area, and agree, it was nice..

I currently work in Payroll, so I'm pretty adaptable. The wife is K-5/1-6 state dependent, with all of her Special Ed certs.. She would just have to test and license in whatever state we ended up in..

[zap]

Some of the best private schools in the country are located here, and with VW and their suppliers moving in, the economy is doing well. Quite a bit of culture (more every year) and some really good riding too.



No doubt the future is in the southern states.

[nighthawk]

The 413 seems interesting -- but I'm not sure if affordable. I grew up in CT (Fairfield County), lived in Manchester CT while I went to UConn, my sister went to Smith, so I've spent a fair amount of time in the Northampton/Holyoke area, and agree, it was nice..

I currently work in Payroll, so I'm pretty adaptable. The wife is K-5/1-6 state dependent, with all of her Special Ed certs.. She would just have to test and license in whatever state we ended up in..

Probably wise to look elsewhere, but if cost is the only reason, I do think there are affordable housing options out there... just not in Northampton/Amherst proper. Easthampton seems to have some decently valued properties...

My gf and I will likely be moving in a few years. She deserves access to better job market... and I'm pretty flexible with location at my job. Plus there's too many NYC people here! haha.. :fight:

[dawgie]

Don't move to NC if your wife is a teacher. Public schools are seriously undervalued here, particularly with the current administration and legislature. Teachers have not received a pay raise in more than 5 years, and legislators never miss an opportunity to bad-mouth them. They are also trying to switch to a merit pay system that is seriously flawed in design.

I am afraid that conditions will not get better until the market forces politicians to start rewarding teachers, and that won't happen until voters force it. If I had a child considering a career in teaching -- or any kind of public service -- I would try really hard to talk him or her out of it. Although education and public service are worthy careers from the standpoint of making a difference, in today's political climate they are not worth the headaches and lack of rewards.

[shovelhd]

Portland, Maine.
Portsmouth, NH.

Both are nice places.

Portland real estate is out of this world with prices. It just exploded in the last five years. Taxes are killer and commutes can be long.

Portsmouth is on my short list. So is Hampton Beach. North Beach is beautiful and far enough away from the madness.

[moose8]

Portland real estate is out of this world with prices. It just exploded in the last five years. Taxes are killer and commutes can be long.



Portsmouth is on my short list. So is Hampton Beach. North Beach is beautiful and far enough away from the madness.


I guess it's all about where you're coming from. Living in Boston, anything that's not New York or San Francisco seems like a bargain.

[shovelhd]

Nighthawk, looks like Rt. 47.

I grew up in Fairfield CT. My family lives and works there. The cost of living in even the most expensive parts of Western MA doesn't even come close to that. Not even in the same ballpark.

[oliver1850]

in my experience, good jobs and cheap housing do not go together. lower cost of living usually means lower paying jobs.

portland, maine is a cool place (and downright cold in winter) and some of the surrounding towns/suburbs have great schools. but as i can attest from personal experience, trying to find a well paying job there ain't easy.

it's a real catch 22. the places we most want to live, we can't find work in. and many great, well paying jobs are in places that exact both a financial and psychic toll.

One of my racing buddies, a Portland native, would concur. He wanted out of racing and tried moving back at one point, but couldn't find work in Maine that would allow the same standard of living they had in Indianapolis. Last time I checked in he was still racing, living in the Charlotte area.

[Bradford]

...I'd love to go to Colorado, but I don't think the wife is quite okay with being that far from NY...

That's what my wife said when I asked her to move to Colorado. We negotiated and she said she would go out for two years and then we would discuss where we would live next. About 18 months after moving here, out of nowhere, she said "by the way, were good." I asked her what she was talking about, and she said "we aren't moving anywhere, we are going to stay in Colorado."

Planes fly back and forth every day from DIA to Newark. Moving trucks go both ways also, just in case she doesn't like it. But I've been here for 8 years now and the only people I know who didn't like it were from Southern India and needed to live in a place with humidity.

[nighthawk]

Nighthawk, looks like Rt. 47.

I grew up in Fairfield CT. My family lives and works there. The cost of living in even the most expensive parts of Western MA doesn't even come close to that. Not even in the same ballpark.

Close! Bull Hill Road in Sunderland between 63 and 116. Those tobacco barns are all up and down 47, though.

Yeah, I guess cost is all relative. Western MA seems expensive to me coming from Providence, where housing cost was particularly low. Also one of the worst job markets of North East cities, so I guess that is the catch.

I'm hoping to migrate to the Pacific North West in a few years. I'll start that thread next year when I start seriously looking.

[TBDSeattle]

Although education and public service are worthy careers from the standpoint of making a difference, in today's political climate they are not worth the headaches and lack of rewards.

^^ what he said x 100

My wife and I started in public service, but go so poor so fast that we had to leave for the private sector.

Both of my parents are public school teachers, as well as 5 out of 10 of my aunts/uncles. The work super hard, and have no control over their earnings... here in Washington State they have had a salary freeze for years, and the state supreme court had to step in to ensure that the state paid the *minimum* expenditure on education per child.

Yes, you read that right. The court had to tell the legislature to meet the minimum requirements for expenditures on education.

I really, really, hate to say this, but I tell young people to avoid the public sector.

As for where to locate, if your wife is in public school teaching, I would look at how the state allocates funding per school district. Some allocate per child across the state, other let districts set their own tax rates. Choosing the right type of state and then the right school district will be a huge factor in how happy your wife is as a public school teacher.

Good luck!

[bcroslin]

Not florida

[rallizes]

I'll concur with the 413 (Western Mass) recommendation, as it is where I am currently living (though scheming to leave, just like yourself).

Overall I have a favorable impression of the place, been here for 3 years, having spent the previous 5 in Providence, RI.

I can say that it would likely work for you in most of your "needs" of a locality, though I personally find the cost of living, housing specifically, on the high side. Towns like Easthampton and closer to Holyoke/Springfield have more affordable housing, but in general it is somewhat expensive.

Riding is top notch: Plenty of open roads, plenty of climbing, plenty of dirt, some good mountain biking, easy access to Vermont if you want to go even higher. Plenty of bike culture: Annual cross races, clubs, a few mostly average bike shops, LOTS of organized rides, brevet series, etc. etc.

Education work might be dicey (my gf is/was a teacher). She was able to substitute with some regularity, but FT positions seem few and far between unless willing to commute to Springfield (~30 mins, assuming Northampton vicinity as a starting point). She works in a museum currently, while constantly on the lookout for a FT art education position. Depending on your wife's chosen teaching level, she may have better luck. Early education and university level seem to have more consistently open positions. I don't know what your profession is, but if you happen to work for the federal govt, we are lumped into the Hartford locality area, so our COLA is actually higher than NYC.

Fresh food/local produce is off the charts, CSAs and farmers markets all over the place, if you are into that sort of thing. Though surprisingly I find the restaurants to be severely lacking. I may have been spoiled by Providence... but when I get the urge to go out, there really are no stand out AMAZING places to eat, no matter what the cost.

Another "pro" for you might be the vicinity to NY. Literally, western MA feels like a suburb of NYC with so many transplants and weekenders. My personal opinion aside, it is definitely convenient to drive between for long weekends or regular visits (~3 hours drive), and bus and train service between them. Also, ~2 hours to Boston or Providence, ~1 hour to Hartford (Bradley Intl Airport), and ~4.5 hours to Montreal.

I could list some "cons", but this post is getting toward unreadabley long. If you have any specific questions, fire away!

EDIT: Did I mention it's f'n beautiful here?
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zC-tA_gRldI/UmQ7DHX-0FI/AAAAAAAACYU/TgsjmOQ4GsQ/w771-h576-no/-5.jpg

I wanna move there. I'd love to hear the cons, if you feel like it.:)

[redir]

I've lived in several places around the country. New Mexico was by far my favourite. But due to the nature of my and my wife's work we live in college towns. I don't mean colleges in a big city but towns that otherwise would not exist if there was not a sizable university. They all seem to have a similiar vibe. You are in a small town in the middle of no where yet there is a vibrant cosmopolitan scene, arts, farmers markets and in my current case lots of mountains to climb, roads and trails for riding that go on forever, rivers to kayak in, lakes to sail, and so on.

It's not for everyone. Oh yeah and my commute by car is ten minutes or about 40 minutes by bike. I'll take a cut in pay to never ever ever ever have to work in a city like DC again ;) And having grown up in New England it was great but I don't really care to ever go back. Southern winters are way more conducive to my life style now. I am reasonably close to both Greenville and Ashville and both are excellent spots if you ask me.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Nighthawk, looks like Rt. 47.

I grew up in Fairfield CT. My family lives and works there. The cost of living in even the most expensive parts of Western MA doesn't even come close to that. Not even in the same ballpark.

I grew up in Fairfield (County), most of my family is still there... I don't know how anyone affords to stay there anymore!

Cheers,
KP

[nighthawk]

I wanna move there. I'd love to hear the cons, if you feel like it.:)

Sure, but keep in mind these are purely my perspective, and the things I value may not be the same as others living here....

- Winter. I realize it's not THAT bad, especially compared to northern Minnesota or similar places.. but I think I'm over it. I don't have a snowmobile, I don't ice fish, and being cranky for 4.5 months out of the year is bad for the spirit. Every year I say it will be my last, and one of these times I'm going to mean it!

- Population density. This is a tricky one. One of the things I love about being out here is the local commitment to conserving open space and agricultural land. There are several land trusts operating, Amherst is big on retaining conservation land with public trails, and the area has several state parks and wildlife management areas. The down side to the conservation of "peopless space" in an area where lots of people want to live, is the resulting density in those developed commercial areas. Housing is expensive, shopping at trader joes is like entering a warzone, you can get stuck in Rte 9 traffic for an hour trying to get somewhere that should take 5 minutes, trying to find a cafe on a Saturday morning to drink some coffee and use the wifi? Ha, only if you get there at 7am. Northampton on a weekend night, it's like Time Square on new years. It just feels crowded to me and I hate feeling like I'm competing for resources. A lot of this is seasonal, as the area swells when the 5 colleges are in session. So really, this "con" only applies to Sept-December, Feb-May. The other 4 months are heaven!

-drunk college kids. UMASS has consistently harbored a lax environment for students to be publicly intoxicated. Every year it is the same thing, big parties, riots with the police, trashing public spaces. I completely avoid Amherst on Thur-Sat evenings, especially around "bar time" and especially on game nights. It's a mess. The administration always talks tough, but it hasn't changed in the three years I've been here. Red Sox win, Umass students get drunk and riot. Patriots win, Umass students get drunk and riot. Osama bin Laden gets killed, Umass students get drunk, chant USA!USA!USA! and riot. The weekend the WEEK BEFORE St. Patricks day, Umass students dress in green, get drunk and riot. If this was my only perspective on the future of America... it would be looking pretty bleak.

I think that's about it.. I previously mentioned the lack of good restaurants. I really like Coco in Easthampton, actually... and there are plenty of above average places to eat. It is a truly fantastic area... as you can see most of my gripes are sortof petty (and maybe a little exaggerated)... so yes, move here.... but there's no ocean, and allergies can be pretty bad. My ultimate opinion is that the good far outweighs the bad.

[saab2000]

I have thought about Lehigh Valley. I've heard the cycling is good and from what little browsing I've done, it looks relatively 'affordable' compared to closer to the big cities. And good cycling from what I understand.

Then again, I've been 'thinking about' this exact topic for years and always return to the same thing - nothing.

When I'm done flying (maximum 18 years) and am still ticking I plan to move to Wisconsin, Minnesota or Michigan. And if my company moves again to the Midwest I'm moving back immediately. And if I can afford it, head someplace warm(ish) for January, February and March.

[cash05458]

I would say Vermont...GREAT place to live...great riding...great laid back and decent folks...only problem with Vermont being the job market is pretty bad...we have low unemployment, but not alot of well paying jobs...depends on your skills...the nice life here of course has it's problems in that they don't allow much development...but if you can swing it, it is a great place to live...

[Louis]

When I'm done flying (maximum 18 years) and am still ticking I plan to move to Wisconsin, Minnesota or Michigan. And if my company moves again to the Midwest I'm moving back immediately. And if I can afford it, head someplace warm(ish) for January, February and March.

So what's better, one place with a maximum of good weather / compromise or two places (with the accompanying costs and moving hassles) each with very, very good weather for part of the year?

[saab2000]

So what's better, one place with a maximum of good weather / compromise or two places (with the accompanying costs and moving hassles) each with very, very good weather for part of the year?

I just feel more at home in the Midwest. It's where I grew up. I like the pace of life and I have family there, though that's dwindling.

I am single and live alone, so I have many options. I don't know what I'll want to do when I'm 65 in 18 years but for now, when I visit Minneapolis it's good. Going again in a couple weeks and hope for a good time.

For me at least the east coast is too crowded and hectic and the weather doesn't seem that much better, if at all.

Maybe I'll just move to Tuscany and drink wine and ride my bike for the rest of my life and marry a gorgeous Italian woman. Oh wait, I think that ship has sailed.... :rolleyes:

[goonster]

Charlottesville.
Worth a serious look.

[JAGI410]

Looking solely at your requirements, I'd suggest Tucson, AZ.

[54ny77]

San Luis Obispo, CA.

[rphetteplace]

Madison, WI is a great biking city. Very progressive town with lots of university jobs available. Also the riding just west of Madison is unbelievable you can ride county roads for days. All 1 mile gridded farm land.

[PBWrench]

Another vote for Minneapolis. You can ride at least 10 months of the year, hundreds and hundreds of miles of paths and trails and rural county roads. MPLS is considered one of the hardest cities to recruit to (weather) and from (quality of life). Great public and private schools. You betcha.

[jmoore]

Ouch! lol

Not to you specifically. Just to everyone thinking about moving to Tx. :)

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

[cnighbor1]

Has an architect you need to be in either, Chicago, LA, SF, NY
2nd choice Seattle, Denver, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Detroit (in past years), Philly
to be were the action is.
So being from Detroit I got in a lot in Seattle, some in Detroit and Sf
Not many other choices unless you really like starving!!
Charles the architect

[Netdewt]

Another vote for Minneapolis. You can ride at least 10 months of the year, hundreds and hundreds of miles of paths and trails and rural county roads. MPLS is considered one of the hardest cities to recruit to (weather) and from (quality of life). Great public and private schools. You betcha.

But people often stay when they move here. :)

[Louis]

Madison, WI is a great biking city. Very progressive town with lots of university jobs available. Also the riding just west of Madison is unbelievable you can ride county roads for days. All 1 mile gridded farm land.

Sounds ideal to me, except that the winters would snck. (for me; ymmv)

[Ralph]

I came here (Central Florida) from western NC after i finished college, and never left. If I could do it all over again, would do exactly the same thing. I don't live in the same state tourists see (or the same part of Central Florida). I've been about every place in US, in most of the seasons, and never found a better all around place to live.....though lots better for a couple months a year. People complain about Florida a lot, but few who move here ever leave. BTW....my pool water was 84 today.

Seriously....I think it has a lot to do with your work. Making more money than you need, you can be happy about anywhere. I had a terrific career here, now in my older years, I like warm weather. Find the best place for your careers. Where you can save for retirement, extra's, travel, educate your kids. Accomplish your goals. You will be happy.

[saab2000]

Sounds ideal to me, except that the winters would snck. (for me; ymmv)

Embrace winter. Ride studded tires. Ski. Snowshoe. Winter is bad if you try to pretend it doesn't exist. If you accept the reality of it it's not nearly as bad. I currently live in Virginia Beach and life is such that people don't really accept winter because it isn't as brutally cold as WI or MN. But It's not like being outside in the damp northeast winds at 36º is any fun either. When it's raining sideways and 40º I'm not really thinking Virginia Beach/Norfolk is all that great....

If you're going warm, go warm and go to south Florida or Arizona or Texas or SoCal or wherever. But St. Louis isn't that much better than Madison or Minneapolis.

[Matthew]

Saab2000 did a great job of describing the West Michigan area. Can't beat Lake Michigan for recreation, camping, boating, and some of the best sunsets on earth. All up and down the west coast of Michigan is nice. ST.Joseph, Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, Ludington, Traverse City, Petoskey, Harbor Springs to name a few. He is right, the roads are often terrible after a harsh winter. And winter can drag on for a while but there is plenty of time to get out and ride. Prime summer time is especially nice. Some nights you can ride to almost 10pm as it stays light out. And Lake Michigan does keep the coast a bit warmer in winter and cooler in the summer. There are some great schools here and you can get a lot of house for relatively cheap. Job market would likely be your biggest challenge. There are quite a few cycling groups/clubs too and it's relatively easy to get away from the tourist traffic. I live just 4 miles north of Grand Haven, a tourist destination for thousands in the summer and have no problem getting away from the crowds to get in a good ride. Check it out, Matthew.

[Louis]

If you're going warm, go warm and go to south Florida or Arizona or Texas or SoCal or wherever. But St. Louis isn't that much better than Madison or Minneapolis.

I agree 100%. St Louis is horrible - you get the worst of both worlds, nasty, humid summers, and on the other side plenty of below 0* nights.

[texbike]

Texas is full.

Seriously!!! Especially Austin! ;)

Austin really is getting crazy. It's been listed as the fastest growing city in the U.S. for the last several years. If you were to consider Texas, I'd suggest Ft. Worth. It's a really nice small city with decent riding, nice people, a good job market, great education opportunities (both K-12 and Hi-Ed), and reasonable housing prices. DFW airport isn't too far away and they have plenty of non-stop flights to the East Coast.

San Luis Obispo, CA.

This one is MY dream! :)

Madison, WI is a great biking city. Very progressive town with lots of university jobs available. Also the riding just west of Madison is unbelievable you can ride county roads for days. All 1 mile gridded farm land.

Madison is a really cool place. VERY similar to Austin in many respects except that the growth hasn't got out of hand yet.

Texbike

[sc53]

Charlottesville VA
Worth a serious look.

I'll third that. My 30th law school reunion is coming up in May and I was filling out an alumni questionnaire for the reunion scrapbook this morning, thinking of those glory days in C'ville in the 80's. Lots more traffic and housing there now but you can still find quiet places to ride and live on the backroads.

[Ken Robb]

Texas is full.

Yeah, but full of what?:)

[Ken Robb]

Finger Lakes Area, NY, Lancaster, PA. Huntsville, AL. are all places I have enjoyed and would consider as places to live. My college roommate has returned to his hometown of Pueblo,CO. and I was surprised how inexpensive living there can be but it's probably too far from NJ for your wife.

[dyerwolf]

As a long time resident of Oregon (Eugene and Portland) and being a Duck alum, I have stong affinity for the quality of life in the NW. It's chockful of excllent outdoor opportunities but it does have its own limitations...
FYI, I'm outside Boston now but thats due to life circumstances.

[jlwdm]

Yeah, but full of what?:)

Jobs, a good economy and friendly people.

Jeff

[SamIAm]

Jobs, a good economy and friendly people.

Jeff

Well played sir. Always amazed at the arrogance shown by some when this subject comes up. Didn't Firerescuefin just move there for better opportunity?

[donevwil]

Jobs, a good economy and friendly people.

Jeff

... and good food (or at least food that I love) at reasonable prices. I'd be 300# if I lived in TX. Gain 10 every time I visit. I'm a native CA who loves TX, as well as pretty much every other state.

I wouldn't move to CA if I weren't already here. My wife and I will need to move out if we ever want to retire.

[Louis]

Well played sir. Always amazed at the arrogance shown by some when this subject comes up. Didn't Firerescuefin just move there for better opportunity?

It was a joke.

I'm always amazed by the thin skins shown when it comes to insecurities about stereotypes and city vs country, blue vs red, north vs south, etc etc etc.

[texbike]

It was a joke.

I'm always amazed by the thin skins shown when it comes to insecurities about stereotypes and city vs country, blue vs red, north vs south, etc etc etc.

As a 5th generation Texan, I'm willing to admit that we have our short-comings. Most places do. Our education system kinda sucks, our environmental stewardship is lacking across much of the State, and we have serious whack-jobs running around the place (the Gubner, the Cruzinator, and their ilk).

However, the economies in all of our major cities continue to grow and diversify (energy, technology, education, healthcare, agriculture, manufacturing, etc). The cost of living is reasonable compared to other major metros across the country. If you're not a fan of the red plague, the city cores tend to be more blue than the 'burbs.

It does get crazy hot here and we do have wild weather. The State isn't nearly as scenic as Colorado, California, Oregon, etc. Regardless, there is a ton of outdoor stuff to do and it's rare that you can't get outside for extended periods of time due to the weather.

Overall, it's a pretty good place.

Texbike

[MadRocketSci]

It was a joke.

I'm always amazed by the thin skins shown when it comes to insecurities about stereotypes and city vs country, blue vs red, north vs south, etc etc etc.

As the Gunnery Sgt says, here "we are all equally worthless" :D

http://i500.listal.com/image/1875686/500full.jpg

[Louis]

Overall, it's a pretty good place.

I've been down Dallas-way a few times, but I'm most familiar with the area near Richardson which seemed iffy for cycling. I've also been down to Waco and as long as you didn't mind flat, there certainly seemed to be plenty of quiet roads to ride there. I've never been to the hill country - I assume that's probably best for cycling variety.

In general the folks I interacted with didn't seem that different from the people in St Louis, friendly and perfectly decent. Not having ridden there at all I have no idea if they're any better or worse wrt cyclists.

[nighthawk]

Well played sir. Always amazed at the arrogance shown by some when this subject comes up. Didn't Firerescuefin just move there for better opportunity?

My testosterone comment was a joke, so I hope this wasn't directed at me, I really wasn't trying to offend anyone. My mother is from Texas, I have good friends from Texas, I like Texas.

[buddybikes]

New England for 9 months, probably just south of Portland, ie Scarborough or along the CT river, then 3 months (after 1 mth skiing) to St. John USVI

[54ny77]

A close # 2 would either be where Velotel lives (his ride reports are unbelievable!), or maybe somewhere like this:

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/1-san-gimignano-tuscany-italy-carl-amoth.jpg

[joosttx]

Tejas is hoarding America's testosterone.

T is for....

"E is for eggs" -RWH

[Aaron O]

Conshohocken PA.

You're right on a trail, it's a quick jump to Philly while avoiding all the BS in Philly. You're near where a lot of the jobs are in the burgeoning KOP area while skipping the worst part of 76. Great schools. Reasonably affordable. Nice town with a Main Street and parks.

[nighthawk]

"E is for eggs" -RWH

I was thinking Jimmie Rodgers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=qEIBmGZxAhg)

[majorpat]

Great topic. I have a couple options that I can pursue or stay where I am. What are your thoughts on Panama City, FL or Maryland near Andrews AFB?
After this winter I'd move into a volcano but the rest of the year is great in my area.

[Ralph]

Some folks in Central Florida think the panhandle area (about 400 miles from me) is kinda backward, and more like moving to Alabama, or something. While there may be some truth to that, or maybe at some time in the past there was some truth to that, doubt it's totally true these days. However.....it's a lot more "red" than here. Climate is not what some would call real Florida. With good job, family around you, life could be good there. Weather w/b a huge improvement over NY and mid atlantic. Won't get a snow storm, but will have a few freezing nights. Don't think we had a freezing night in Central Florida this year. Imagine Panama City folks love their life style.

[mgm777]

San Luis Obispo, CA.
^This. In the USAF, I had the pleasure of being based at Vandenberg AFB for awhile. Spent my weekends up in SLO and down in Santa Barbara. Loved it. If I could figure out how to earn an income, I would move to SLO in a heart beat. The Central Coast of CA is absolutely gorgeous.

[Louis]

The Central Coast of CA is absolutely gorgeous.

But $$$$$

Are there any places there where the cost of housing isn't insane?

[Ken Robb]

There are "less desirable" places in CA. where houses cost much less than those near the coast or other special attractions but are still nice places to live.

While homes are expensive to buy they are much cheaper to operate and maintain due to the relatively mild climate as a few of my past clients discovered when they sold their homes in SoCal for big $$ and spent that much on bigger homes back east only to be faced with high taxes, heating/cooling, more frequent painting, snow plowing, etc.

But, like Texas, we are full too. :)

[oliver1850]

Small towns in the midwest can have very cheap housing. One road that I ride a lot has a really nice stuccoed Four Square on 3 acres that recently sold. The asking price was $119,000. We've been renting a farm house to a single mom who has just purchased a 2 bedroom house in a dieing town for $15,000. I've known at least two previous owners - have never been inside it but I remember it as a not bad looking house. I've seen some fairly remarkable transformations of abandoned houses in the area that were probably purchased for next to nothing. Wish I had before pics but I don't.

[Ken Robb]

But $$$$$

Are there any places there where the cost of housing isn't insane?

Cambria is cool little town on the Central Coast and prices there seem "reasonable" for a coastal town.

[joosttx]

Cambria is cool little town on the Central Coast and prices there seem "reasonable" for a coastal town.

Zillow reports the average home price in Cambria is $586,000. Consider the 8+ % sales tax! highest state income tax and $4.00+ / gallon gas it maybe out of the budget for the OP.

No doubt it's reasonable and arguably worth it but the word reasonable is a relative term.

[Louis]

$586k in CA housing is practically giving it away!!!

[cmg]

if you like hot weather san antonio is the place. It snowed here back in 85, i think. this year winter was slightly longer but nothing like anywhere else. spring/fall lasts about a month if that long. it's going to in the upper 80's tomorrow. hill country to the north. housing is cheap, still affordable. Job picture is improving, but yea another starving architect here, took a civil service job about 15 years ago haven't designed anything since.

[93legendti]

if you like hot weather san antonio is the place. It snowed here back in 85, i think. this year winter was slightly longer but nothing like anywhere else. spring/fall lasts about a month if that long. it's going to in the upper 80's tomorrow. hill country to the north. housing is cheap, still affordable. Job picture is improving, but yea another starving architect here, took a civil service job about 15 years ago haven't designed anything since.

My buddy who is originally from Michigan and the owner of Spira shoes, certainly loves San Antonio.

[Ken Robb]

Zillow reports the average home price in Cambria is $586,000. Consider the 8+ % sales tax! highest state income tax and $4.00+ / gallon gas it maybe out of the budget for the OP.

No doubt it's reasonable and arguably worth it but the word reasonable is a relative term.

This response was for Louis' question about CA. prices. The OP made it clear that his wife wanted to be close to NY/NJ.

[oldpotatoe]

This response was for Louis' question about CA. prices. The OP made it clear that his wife wanted to be close to NY/NJ.

But he also started with, " Where would you start over?" and "So where would you go, if you could pack up and move, and start over? "

Maybe he should ask where do members recommend HE go, with these conditions. If single, I would go to SoCal in an instant. Probably beach side of SanDiego...along PCH or maybe Ventura, around there...

[djg]

Charlottesville.

Housing may not be much less (much depends on your tastes, etc.) but you might get more space. The area is developing nicely and the people are more relaxed.

The riding…..pretty darn nice.

Also, Dulles airport is not too far away.

I like C'ville. Some great countryside and riding right outside of town and D.C. is an easy weekend trip (and workable for a day trip, if you must). Cultural resources get a big bump from UVa. Cost of living is reasonable -- how reasonable depends on which part of NJ is the comparison, but housing, at least, is much, much less expensive than around DC or other big city areas. At the college level, VA state schools still offer a pretty great collection at what's still a reasonable price.

NC -- not sure what the riding is like around Chapel Hill these days, and I know they have traffic, but I liked the area when I worked there one summer way back when. Some very good college-town type plusses around CH and Durham. Moving west, the in-laws have a place in the mountains in Balsam (great riding around there), and we did a little getaway to Asheville once -- beautiful area, with much to offer, although Asheville seemed small to me.

I did some time in Harrisburg, teaching in Hershey. Central PA has a great deal to offer, really, although it also has its limitations. Hershey, Harrisburg (not for schools in the city proper), Camp Hill, Carlisle, Elizabethtown. Around there.

West . . . way off your beaten track, but I really like Santa Fe and Taos, although I don't know what the schools are like at all. For a bigger city (not big), I've been going to SLC every year for 15 years or so to ski and I think I've come around to the idea that I could like it. Maybe P.C. Awesome mountains.

Where do you (the O.P., not zap) know people? Have family? At some point there's the question how hard is it to get home when you want to get home. Charlottesville to anywhere in NJ can be done in a day, in the car. Chapel Hill, yes. Asheville, that's a slog, although they do have an airport.

[redir]

I grew up in Fairfield (County), most of my family is still there... I don't know how anyone affords to stay there anymore!

Cheers,
KP

Me too. Bethel Connecticut to be precise. It has changed a LOT since I moved out in about '92. It really used to be a working class town. Now it's like a touristy quaint New England town. My mom and dad made a fortune selling their house and moving away, those were the days.

[Nooch]

Thanks for all the input, everyone.

OP, yeah, I suppose the correct question is 'where would you recommend I look based on the criteria.'

Starting to think about upstate NY.. Maybe it checks off more boxes than I'd originally anticipated, and helps that my wife is already licensed there, and it's not entirely too far away from family. If in-laws decided to follow, it wouldn't affect their taxes (pensions), so that's another plus..

Wonder if they need a payroll person at No.22 bikes ;)

[Mr. Pink]

Saratoga Springs is a hell of a town, best in upstate.

[Spinner]

Does anyone worry about the availability of water in the future or am I simply paranoid?

[rwsaunders]

If her job opportunity is the prime motivator, for a start, see pages 92 and 96 for average teacher's salaries and expenditure per student, all broken down by state. Also, in the next five years, a record number of teachers are retiring, but student populations in most states are in decline too and won't bottom out until 2028. That type of information is fairly easy to obtain from each state's DOE, as well as the Feds.

No dog in the hunt, but I find the caliber of teachers that I deal with in our school district to be top notch. We aren't in metro NYC or CT but in Pittsburgh. I cut the current salary information from our district and posted it below. That's for 195, 8-hour days...not bad.

http://www.nea.org/assets/img/content/NEA_Rankings_And_Estimates-2013_(2).pdf

Based on the current makeup of the bargaining unit, the average Fox Chapel Area teacher’s salary will be $81,153 in the first year of the new contract. The minimum salary in the district will be $43,480 and the maximum salary for a teacher with at least 19 years of service and a doctorate degree will be $108,388. During the last year of the extension, the minimum salary will be $45,573 with the maximum set at $112,482.

[nighthawk]

Does anyone worry about the availability of water in the future in various locales?

I lived in Arizona (near Flagstaff*) for a few years... and that was partially why I left, also my desire to move to the pacific north west takes that into consideration, so yes... I'm not really paranoid about it, but it is a concern.

*Flagstaff is a great town, btw!

[redir]

Does anyone worry about the availability of water in the future or am I simply paranoid?

I don't have to worry so much about that where I am now but certainly there are many many areas in the US and around the world that this should be given great consideration. I'm more concerned about energy consumption and going to alternative energies. I'm saving now for a geothermal conversion. Where I live is tectonically stable, has a hefty annual rain fall, not much in the way of tornadoes, fires, or mud slides but I am still burning oil to deal with cold winters.

[majorpat]

Saratoga Springs is a hell of a town, best in upstate.

Agree, great town. Upstate NY means different things to different people. For me, you need to be north of Rt.88 and north of Kingston at least. Riding in/among the Finger Lakes is great though winter (this one especially) can be a bruiser. Housing is pretty cheap, taxes not so much. Check out Ithaca, another super town.

[Mr. Pink]

Agree, great town. Upstate NY means different things to different people. For me, you need to be north of Rt.88 and north of Kingston at least. Riding in/among the Finger Lakes is great though winter (this one especially) can be a bruiser. Housing is pretty cheap, taxes not so much. Check out Ithaca, another super town.

Yeah, Ithica is another one. Although, that's about it north of Albany. The rest of the state up there can be an economic wasteland, besides the farms.

Have you ever done this ride? http://www.highlandercycletour.com That thing looks like masochism squared.

Saratoga is closer to skiing, and is pretty much equidistant to NYC, Boston, and Montreal (about three hours each). Yeah, taxes can be high. Riding is awesome, with many paved roads paid for and maintained by downstate taxes. You can see the stark difference when you cross the Vermont border, and suddenly are confronted with a lot of dirt roads, and the paved are beat up pretty badly.
My favorite area near Saratoga for riding is Washington county to the east, and the Cooperstown area to the west, which is the triangle between Albany, Binghamton, and Syracuse. Pretty unreal at times.

[parris]

I was born and raised in Utica but moved to Ithaca for a couple of years when I got married. We moved down to the Binghamton area 20 years ago. What Mr.Pink said about an economic wasteland in several areas is spot on so be aware of that issue along with taxes and fees. NY is not generally a business friendly state and as a result many types of jobs have left the state so be aware of that as well.

Good points for the state. Especially where I've lived the riding really is top notch. Although I'm not a fan of where I live right now I only have to be on the bike for 10 minutes in any direction to be away from traffic and into some really beautiful countryside. There are many great regions of the state for riding to be honest. Saratoga, Ithaca, Utica, Syracuse, etc etc... all have some genuinely spectacular terrain with many small town and farm roads to explore. If you want to head to the city it's generally not that bad to get to either.

This past winter was one of the toughest I've had to deal with but generally the seasons are wonderful. The BEST time in upstate NY is the fall. If I could find someplace that had our early October weather and color that's where I'd move in a heartbeat.

I hope this helps.

[EDS]

Yeah, Ithica is another one. Although, that's about it north of Albany. The rest of the state up there can be an economic wasteland, besides the farms.

Have you ever done this ride? http://www.highlandercycletour.com That thing looks like masochism squared.

Saratoga is closer to skiing, and is pretty much equidistant to NYC, Boston, and Montreal (about three hours each). Yeah, taxes can be high. Riding is awesome, with many paved roads paid for and maintained by downstate taxes. You can see the stark difference when you cross the Vermont border, and suddenly are confronted with a lot of dirt roads, and the paved are beat up pretty badly.
My favorite area near Saratoga for riding is Washington county to the east, and the Cooperstown area to the west, which is the triangle between Albany, Binghamton, and Syracuse. Pretty unreal at times.

Plenty of dirt roads in Washington County!

[djg]

Agree, great town. Upstate NY means different things to different people. For me, you need to be north of Rt.88 and north of Kingston at least. Riding in/among the Finger Lakes is great though winter (this one especially) can be a bruiser. Housing is pretty cheap, taxes not so much. Check out Ithaca, another super town.

Ra-cha-cha is upstate. Haven't been back in decades (and anybody contemplating settling in central or western NY should know that it is as cloudy as anyplace in the lower 48), but I liked growing up there and loved regular trips to the Addies. For folks who find the right work, and don't mind the weather, there are some really nice things about upstate.

[Mr. Pink]

Plenty of dirt roads in Washington County!

A whole lot less than Vermont. I read once that Vermont is 65% dirt. It's a poor state. Much poorer than NY.

[Ralph]

If you can find suitable work......no one has mentioned the Greenville-Travelers Rest area in Western SC. Some big name Pro riders have settled around there. Moderate climate, foot of some mountains, Several colleges and International flavor community.....BMW and others have plants there, and great bike trail connecting area to get you out to rural riding. Real estate pricing and local taxes are amazingly low. You don't need a huge salary to live here. Not too "red" around the urban area.

[veloduffer]

Since your wife obtaining a job is important, I would look at fast growing areas like Loudon County VA. My in-laws live in Ashburn which is growing unbelievably fast. Nothing was there but old farm land and now there are new developments everywhere.


There are some nice areas nearby to live as well.

[CNY rider]

A whole lot less than Vermont. I read once that Vermont is 65% dirt. It's a poor state. Much poorer than NY.

I wonder what those statistics look like if you subtract NYC and the immediate surrounding counties.
I live in upstate NY, and enjoy it. But the rural poverty around us is really striking.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Driving down the 17 into Santa Cruz this afternoon felt like a homecoming. I realized it was almost 20 years to the day I first made that drive... If I won the lottery today, I'd have a house there tomorrow, no doubt about it!

Cheers,
KP

[Climb01742]

Driving down the 17 into Santa Cruz this afternoon felt like a homecoming. I realized it was almost 20 years to the day I first made that drive... If I won the lottery today, I'd have a house there tomorrow, no doubt about it!

Cheers,
KP

If money and geography where no object, someplace on the west coast would be my first choice too. Basically go from Santa Barbara north to the Columbia River and just plunk yourself down somewhere, anywhere. Northern Cali and Oregon are as close to heaven on earth as I've run across.

[Mr. Pink]

I wonder what those statistics look like if you subtract NYC and the immediate surrounding counties.
I live in upstate NY, and enjoy it. But the rural poverty around us is really striking.

Pretty bad. NY state is quite a divide. That's what I mean about Vermont right next to it. You see the difference almost immediately in roads, and less obvious in public parks and investment. I used to tell people in Saratoga when I lived there, that if it wasn't for downstate money and Joe Bruno, you'd be hurting, too. They didn't like me saying that. Vermont has no massive metro to feed off of, and a very bad business climate. Rutland has a serious heroin problem now, along with a lot of other isolated places with no hope and long winters

[skijoring]

Pretty bad. NY state is quite a divide. That's what I mean about Vermont right next to it. You see the difference almost immediately in roads, and less obvious in public parks and investment. I used to tell people in Saratoga when I lived there, that if it wasn't for downstate money and Joe Bruno, you'd be hurting, too. They didn't like me saying that. Vermont has no massive metro to feed off of, and a very bad business climate. Rutland has a serious heroin problem now, along with a lot of other isolated places with no hope and long winters

Yeah but we have Champ, the inland sea monster.

[parris]

Heroin is off the hook in our area as well. It's shocking to see just how strong it's come back.

[downtube]

Driving down the 17 into Santa Cruz this afternoon felt like a homecoming. I realized it was almost 20 years to the day I first made that drive... If I won the lottery today, I'd have a house there tomorrow, no doubt about it!

Cheers,
KP

We live in the bay area and we end up going to the coast often. Whether on a bike or in a car the coast area from Half Moon Bay to Pismo Beach is an awesome place to be. Almost all vacations are spent somewhere on that stretch of coast. To live there would be perfect.
chuck

[weisan]

We moved away from Austin, TX for five years (St Louis, Melbourne AUS, Singapore) after living here for 10+ years and came back last year. We forgot how nice it was to live here. We have taken for granted so many things.

- Weather - compared to others, we had a really mild winter, an understatement to say the least. No snow on the ground. Ride all-year round.
- Vibrant communities - healthy job market, nationally-ranked university, family-friendly, diverse groups, business centers, good public transportation
- Cost of living - it is getting more expensive compared to 15 years ago when we first got here. Based on your description, I think you will be fine. There are good options to choose from based on the family budget.

I can go on and on....the last i heard, there are 110 people moving into town every day.
No doubt it is getting crowded but Nooch-pal, we would still welcome you with open arms.
:banana:

We started here 18 years ago. If we were to do it again, we would still end up here.

[old fat man]

We just relocated from Boston to West Hartford. Taxes here are high, but property was much better than metro Boston, and some of the neighboring towns have more affordable housing and lower taxes (some have even higher though). We moved for the better school system, better house options, and to be closer to family and to the mountains in VT.

I'd agree with the suggestions about 413 too, as long as you avoid Springfield. That city is a ····hole.

Job opportunities around the CT river should be decent, from New Haven all the way to Greenfield, MA. Lots of good school systems and medium sized companies for your payroll experience. And the riding is pretty good too.

Overall, not going to be a huge drop in cost of living, but I would expect the transition to be easier and the job opportunities to still be pretty strong.

[Plum Hill]

Any recommendations for an allergy sufferer?
My "good season" in the STL Metro area is rather brief: mid-November to mid-February.

[EDS]

We just relocated from Boston to West Hartford. Taxes here are high, but property was much better than metro Boston, and some of the neighboring towns have more affordable housing and lower taxes (some have even higher though). We moved for the better school system, better house options, and to be closer to family and to the mountains in VT.

I'd agree with the suggestions about 413 too, as long as you avoid Springfield. That city is a ····hole.

Job opportunities around the CT river should be decent, from New Haven all the way to Greenfield, MA. Lots of good school systems and medium sized companies for your payroll experience. And the riding is pretty good too.

Overall, not going to be a huge drop in cost of living, but I would expect the transition to be easier and the job opportunities to still be pretty strong.

Presumably you have already found Harry's Pizza?

[jeffreng58]

Haha! I feel the same way buddy. I live in Brooklyn and want to get away but want all of the same criteria as you and your wife.
I've thought long and hard about this topic and narrowed it down to one other city I would like to live in or nearby.
Toronto, ON, Canada
I went to college in Buffalo. I would frequently go to Toronto on weekends for the food. I can't live in a place where there's no authentic Chinese, Korean, or Japanese food. Although I would miss my NY pizza, I found a place that's close enough to the real deal. Toronto's like a really friendly, environmentally conscious New York City. Good sport teams, large parks, touristy things to do, and good night life. And its the closest city I have found outside the US to be like a city from the US.

[Ralph]

Population trends in US seems to be shifting again. Toward the JOBS, which are in the energy belt......and everything thats needed to support that....a swath of territory from Dakota area down to Texas. Western Canada. Alaska. Sort of like how the wind comes down from Canada. Just follow the wind mills south. Anyone thinking how things are going to be 20-30 years from now, career opportunities, great places to live and raise a family, housing values, education opportunities, climate change, culture, etc? Or is everyone basing their opinions and decisions on how it's been in past? Look at how the economy and stock markets have come roaring back from 08-09 lows......for some. So many Americans being left behind by old economy. So many areas of US, no longer prosperous, just stagnant. And some areas got so depressed and run down (cheap=opportunity), investment is now bringing some of them back.

Drove to Alaska a few years ago from Central Florida. Man.....going up thru Wyoming, Montana (back tracked a little) Dakata's, Western Canada to Alaska, was sure an education. If I were a young man, not tied to an area, I would be very open to new "outside of the box" thinking.

[Jimbo]

We've got a pretty darned good life here in Salt Lake City. Ride the canyons with very little traffic. The main drawbacks (for me anyway) are the hyper-conservative/religious culture and the winter inversions (awful air quality for weeks at a time).

[giverdada]

Haha! I feel the same way buddy. I live in Brooklyn and want to get away but want all of the same criteria as you and your wife.
I've thought long and hard about this topic and narrowed it down to one other city I would like to live in or nearby.
Toronto, ON, Canada
I went to college in Buffalo. I would frequently go to Toronto on weekends for the food. I can't live in a place where there's no authentic Chinese, Korean, or Japanese food. Although I would miss my NY pizza, I found a place that's close enough to the real deal. Toronto's like a really friendly, environmentally conscious New York City. Good sport teams, large parks, touristy things to do, and good night life. And its the closest city I have found outside the US to be like a city from the US.


ha ha. i was going to mention toronto, but the original post got me wondering about where i could possibly go that wasn't here. toronto is home right now.

it is an urban city, but not a massive one by any means, and it is host to most of the good amenities one might expect from a large urban centre. it prides itself on its self-perceived diversity (according to toronto, toronto is the most culturally diverse city in the world). it does have a lot of wicked food. the culture for arts and entertainment is pretty great. the politics are pathetic and the mayor helps this problem in no way whatsoever. taxes are fine. housing prices are completely out of my range. i'm a public high school teacher and would never be able to afford a house on our street or anywhere in any neighborhood in toronto proper. this is not necessarily anyone else's situation though, as i skipped my moneymaking yuppie years by having a kid before i graduated from teachers college and paying daycare fees every year since (i think you can get a pretty nice house for $2400/mo. if you're not spending it on daycare…). houses that we would be looking at with 3 bedrooms and a backyard are generally listed around 600-800k, and go for over a million. there are good parks and lots and lots of good schools though enrolment is in decline. there seem to be good job opportunities for a range of professions, especially things in finance. the mayor is an idiot. other politicians seem to be pretty good. people are highly educated and it's not a place of outright discrimination in a lot of areas.

the riding here is effin horrible. roads are crap. paths are crap. and the city is bound on three sides by endless suburbia with bad roads and worse drivers. the fourth boundary is the lake. and it's still winter here. today is warm but it's supposed to snow tomorrow. again. it also takes about an hour and a half to leave the city, in any direction. we will have a velodrome about an hour from downtown by next year though…

if you run, the city's a great place for that. plenty of places to run, and easy to leave the city noise whenever you want. it's also a pretty safe city in general, with the usual gang activity and shooting stuff, but not nearly with the frequency of 'major cities', it seems.

now i'm wondering how we live somewhere in italy, with vineyards in the yard and arches over the doors...

[malcolm]

Some folks in Central Florida think the panhandle area (about 400 miles from me) is kinda backward, and more like moving to Alabama, or something. While there may be some truth to that, or maybe at some time in the past there was some truth to that, doubt it's totally true these days. However.....it's a lot more "red" than here. Climate is not what some would call real Florida. With good job, family around you, life could be good there. Weather w/b a huge improvement over NY and mid atlantic. Won't get a snow storm, but will have a few freezing nights. Don't think we had a freezing night in Central Florida this year. Imagine Panama City folks love their life style.

The whole coastal panhandle is becoming crowded and quite busy in the summer. Panama City suffers from the spring break crowd and the reputation that involves. I have a good friend that has lived there for 15 years, moved from Newport News, Va. and he couldn't imagine living anywhere else. There are some really cool places in the panhandle with some of the prettiest beaches in the world, yes the world and yes some of it is more redneck than even Alabama.

[rwsaunders]

I heard a great (complimentary) quote about Toronto once...."it's what New York City would be if it were managed by the Swiss."

[Mr. Pink]

I heard a great (complimentary) quote about Toronto once...."it's what New York City would be if it were managed by the Swiss."

That doesn't quite jibe with the whole presence of Rob Ford. The Swiss would have him deported.

[rwsaunders]

^^^^^ I heard a great (complimentary) quote about Toronto once...."it's what New York City would be if it were managed by the Swiss."

Corrected..."it's what New York City would be if it were managed by the Swiss, with Rob Ford in DC."

[djg]

Any recommendations for an allergy sufferer?
My "good season" in the STL Metro area is rather brief: mid-November to mid-February.

STL is a kind of special nexus of mid-west, south, north, Mississippi, whatever. It's a really nice town in a lot of ways, but I've talked to several people who have had more allergy/irritant issues there than anywhere else they've lived. My own two years there were not great. So . . . anywhere else? There's always the question what, in particular, bothers you -- lots of folks do well in the southwest, but not everybody.

[djg]

Sounds ideal to me, except that the winters would snck. (for me; ymmv)

Grew up in the NE and liked it. College, you know where Louis. Grad school in Chicago. As a city, Chicago might be my favorite anywhere. But I think I'd be pretty hesitant to move back to anyplace with a long cold winter that didn't also have skiing.

WRT Wisconsin skiing, more power to the nordic guys and gals out there, but I like alpine skiing, and nothing in Wisconsin counts. I'll take my 950 foot vertical in southern PA in between trips out west, and I'll like it and be happy for a few hours at a time, but 300 feet doesn't cut it.

[Louis]

STL is a kind of special nexus of mid-west, south, north, Mississippi, whatever.

As far as the weather goes, "special" is a euphemism for "all the bad stuff that can and will happen." Spring has barely sprung and we've already had a few tornado events. Now we can look forward to the heat and humidity...

Actually, if you don't mind the severe thunderstorms (and the attendant hailstones, which pounded my roof a while back) this is a decent time of year.

[Plum Hill]

STL is a kind of special nexus of mid-west, south, north, Mississippi, whatever. It's a really nice town in a lot of ways, but I've talked to several people who have had more allergy/irritant issues there than anywhere else they've lived. My own two years there were not great. So . . . anywhere else? There's always the question what, in particular, bothers you -- lots of folks do well in the southwest, but not everybody.

I do bitch about STL (I've been here all my life), but I have to admit that it does have a lot of things in it's favor. It's that darned Mississippi River valley location that bugs allergies.

Allergist says it's Juniper. Ophthalmologist tested for allergies and came up with 45 measurable reactions. Don't ask....

I hear of a lot of folks moving to Arizona, only to have the allergies reoccur after a few years.

Recent check on the 'net gave Daytona Beach the #1 as an allergy haven. Plus, there's the 24 hour race in February.

Heading off to Switzerland Thursday. I breath fine there. Of course, the Swiss charge for the air.

[Louis]

I do bitch about STL (I've been here all my life),

What high-school did you attend? (jk)

For all my complaining, I guess it isn't that bad - I've been here since '86. If it had been as bad as I seem to make it out to be I assume that by now I would have left. However, I don't plan on living here 'til I croak...

[Plum Hill]

What high-school did you attend? (jk)



We don't ask that on the good side of the river.
And I don't mean St. Charles....

[Ralph]

Spent the night couple years ago in O'Fallon on E side of river. At a Quality Courts. Seemed OK to me. Looked like a recently converted corn field.

[buldogge]

Hahaha Ralph…You pretty much nailed it…funny thing is, the same could have been observed in the O'Fallon on this side of the river…

-Mark in (actual) St. Louis

Spent the night couple years ago in O'Fallon on E side of river. At a Quality Courts. Seemed OK to me. Looked like a recently converted corn field.

[wallymann]

CARY = Containment Area for Relocated Yankees

[Nooch]

CARY = Containment Area for Relocated Yankees

That's funny -- my Mother just mentioned Cary the other day, lol

[Ralph]

Hahaha Ralph…You pretty much nailed it…funny thing is, the same could have been observed in the O'Fallon on this side of the river…

-Mark in (actual) St. Louis

Was in STL area with my grandson to see the Museum of Westward Expansion under the arches. Drove from Florida just to see that....was well worth the trip. Didn't see much else of St Louis. In parking lot, after I cranked up the car, and fired up the GPS, asked grandson where next?.....He looked me in the face and said " Grandpa....how about Mount Rushmore?".....and off we went to S Dakota Via Kansas City. So didn't see much of St Louis. Seemed OK to me.

http://www.gatewayarch.com/experience/the-gateway-arch/museum-of-westward-expansion/ For those who have never been. Take your kids.

[buldogge]

IDK his age…but…you missed a wonderful opportunity to take him to City Museum, SLAM, MOBOT, and the STL Zoo just to name a few.

The art museum and zoo are world-class and (unusually) FREE…and are located in beautiful Forest Park (larger than Central) which also houses the Missouri History Museum, the MUNY, The Boathouse, Steinberg ice rink, and muni golf course.

MOBOT has low admission…City Museum has normal type entry fees.

St. Louis also has a pretty darn good food and beer (if you're into that) scene…

I'm from Boston originally…came here for school (WashU) and never left…I miss the NE, but I have grown to dislike winter…this year was unusual for STL.

I own a business so employment options are different/non-existent concerns for me…but…I (like many) dream about the Bay Area…the cost-of-living factor is a big concern, of course.

I like the interior west as well…but the lack of urbanity and still being removed from the ocean are big negatives to me.

Texas, The South, and the SW have little to no draw for me…personally.

-Mark

Was in STL area with my grandson to see the Museum of Westward Expansion under the arches. Drove from Florida just to see that....was well worth the trip. Didn't see much else of St Louis. In parking lot, after I cranked up the car, and fired up the GPS, asked grandson where next?.....He looked me in the face and said " Grandpa....how about Mount Rushmore?".....and off we went to S Dakota Via Kansas City. So didn't see much of St Louis. Seemed OK to me.

http://www.gatewayarch.com/experience/the-gateway-arch/museum-of-westward-expansion/ For those who have never been. Take your kids.

[Nooch]

Okay, so here's what I've got so far.

We're going to Hilton Head Island the first week of August, and driving, so on the drive home I figure we can stop in Raleigh, Cary, and then head up to Charlottesville to spend the night.

Any recommendations for things to do, places to eat, any way to get a feel for a town in a short visit? Unfortunately in my renting life, I've only looked at the apartments I was moving in to -- never took the town into consideration that much, so outside of looking at pictures of houses, I have no idea how to assess an area...

[texbike]

Any recommendations for things to do, places to eat, any way to get a feel for a town in a short visit? I have no idea how to assess an area...

I usually start with Wikipedia for an overview, City-Data.com for additional stats (usually has forums for specific cities/areas as well), Yelp, Paceline (for like-minded suggestions), etc.

Texbike

[zap]

and then head up to Charlottesville to spend the night.

Any recommendations for things to do, places to eat, any way to get a feel for a town in a short visit?

Check out this brewery near Charlottesville. http://www.bluemountainbrewery.com

There are a number of others as well (Starr Hill) and vineyards close to Charlottesville. Monticello is a must see but get tickets in advance.

[Ken Robb]

Downtown Charlottesville has an extensive pedestrian mall with many good restaurants so we strolled along looking at posted menus before choosing a place to eat. We also had good meals at Zinc and a place near the W+Mary campus in an old house (The Old House or something like that?). It's a fun town.

[EDS]

Okay, so here's what I've got so far.

We're going to Hilton Head Island the first week of August, and driving, so on the drive home I figure we can stop in Raleigh, Cary, and then head up to Charlottesville to spend the night.

Any recommendations for things to do, places to eat, any way to get a feel for a town in a short visit? Unfortunately in my renting life, I've only looked at the apartments I was moving in to -- never took the town into consideration that much, so outside of looking at pictures of houses, I have no idea how to assess an area...

1. Jobs
2. Schools
3. Recreational Activities (food, beer, biking, etc.)
4. If thinking about your home as an investment, consider propulation growth (including ages), job growth, proximity to transportation hubs, cultural/natural attractions, etc.

[sailorboy]

I'm in the process of re-locating to Dresher, PA after 20 years and many moves with the Navy. Have lived in many parts of the country and visited even more. I feel like the area north of Philly and west of NYC would be a great compromise (of course I'm biased).

Several parts of Montgomery county or Bucks county PA have all or 90+% of the things you said you wanted in your OP. Easy train ride to downtown Philly or even NYC for cultural activities. The taxes are somewhat high where we are buying--$7400/yr for a $400K house; but with the quality of the schools up there, it's worth it. A couple months of winter when riding will be difficult, but not impossible much of the time, is the only real drawback that I can see.

[fa63]

I am going to put in a vote for Atlanta. Good job market, relatively affordable housing, taxes are not bad at all, and really good riding. Schools are pretty good in the suburbs.

[Nooch]

Just bumping this thread up.. Heading down to HHI the first week of August, going to drive through and maybe meet with some RE agents in the Cary/Raleigh area to see the area on the way home.

We'll be stopping overnight somewhere and I'm trying to figure out where on the way back -- I'm figuring somewhere in NoVA. Original intention was going to be Charlottesville based on the recommendations in this thread, but I'm looking at the property there (and associated school rankings) and thinking it might not be as good an area as Cary/Raleigh (on paper) for us.. Anybody have any other recommendations in a place to spend the night (and subsequent next morning/afternoon) that might be worth our while to visit?

[Nooch]

Seems like a lifetime ago I poised the original question to the forum...

Since then, a lot has changed. Kid's have gotten older/started school, another one showed up, my wife started working at a private school, we've bought a house in one of the most expensive counties in the country. My wife's aunt and uncle also recently relocated to Bluffton, SC (right outside of Hilton Head) and we recently stopped by on the way down to Disney last week.

Talking about the property value, taxes, etc... got us thinking about things again. I work two jobs to keep us afloat in our current situation. I love our house, but it's on the small side for a family of 5 (and only one bathroom). My quality of life, especially as it pertains to my family (and spending time with them) is lacking. We're making it work, but at what cost.

I asked her what her wishlist was -- along with my being home, she wants to be within an hour from the beach, have moderate winters, and have decent schools. So far my simple research has yielded that we could afford a 5 bed/3 bath house for less than we spend now on our 3/1 cape (which thankfully has gained quite a bit of value over these past few years of ownership).

Anyone know enough about the Bluffton, SC/Beaufort County, SC area to offer any insight? While we've spent time in HHI, it's a tourist/vacation destination and I've no idea what actual day to day living would be like there. Even her aunt and uncle are still spending a bunch of time up here (they're from Long Island) as they still care for their elderly parents.

I should mention, I would also have the ability to take my job (and salary, presumably) with me and work from home, which would make this all possible...

[Whit51]

Anywhere in coastal S.C. I would suggest you talk to the city or county planning department about where the flood zones are. If you want something with more rolling terrain you might like The Columbia/ Lexington area or Greenville. The Rock Hill area has quick access to Charlotte NC. SC is great in many respects, including mild winters, low taxes and a laid back lifestyle. Be aware some parts get very hot in the summer and most areas ( excluding within the Columbia and Charleston city limits) are very conservative. Utility costs can be high in some areas, so check those out. One nice thing about S.C. is that it is relatively compact and you kind of live in the entire state.. For example Columbia is 2 hours from the beach, 2 hrs from Greenville, 90 minutes from Charlotte and pro sports.

[Red Tornado]

We moved away from Austin, TX for five years (St Louis, Melbourne AUS, Singapore) after living here for 10+ years and came back last year. We forgot how nice it was to live here. We have taken for granted so many things.

- Weather - compared to others, we had a really mild winter, an understatement to say the least. No snow on the ground. Ride all-year round.
- Vibrant communities - healthy job market, nationally-ranked university, family-friendly, diverse groups, business centers, good public transportation
- Cost of living - it is getting more expensive compared to 15 years ago when we first got here. Based on your description, I think you will be fine. There are good options to choose from based on the family budget.

I can go on and on....the last i heard, there are 110 people moving into town every day.
No doubt it is getting crowded but Nooch-pal, we would still welcome you with open arms.
:banana:

We started here 18 years ago. If we were to do it again, we would still end up here.

A lot of the same goes for Waco, in between Austin & DFW. It's a growing area that doesn't (yet) have the "metro" feel. Growth isn't exploding like Austin, but stuff is happening. I know the public & some private schools here are looking for educators, or at least they have been. Same weather more-or-less as Austin, good university & community colleges, decent selection of restaurants, lots of housing options & reasonable cost of living. No state income tax, but sales tax is 8.25%.
Property taxes went up noticeably this year. Supposedly because of an overdue adjustment & a lot of locals think it also had some influence from the Magnolia/Fixer Upper craze. Lots of downtown revitalization, but property values went up accordingly - also Chip & JoJo "supposedly" got a lot of tax breaks early on for some of their projects in the area (silo's, etc.). Regarding cycling, not much in the way of leg/lung busters but some decent smaller stuff if you know where to go. Generally a lot of good places to ride & a decent sized club. We also have Cameron Park, IMHO one of the best MTB trail networks in the state.

[45K10]

My aunt lives in Bluffton. I haven't been there in a couple of years but I used to go there often when I was a kid. Unless things have drastically changed there I would suggest you stick with the Raleigh/ Cary area and let Bluffton go.

Way more opportunities for your kids in Raleigh than Bluffton and it is way hotter there. Also Bluffton is old school South. The prevailing mindset back in the day always made feel uncomfortable and I grew up in Tennessee.

That's just my opinion, Good luck!

[zap]

CARY = Containment Area for Relocated Yankees

Way back thread........but this is where we landed 2 years ago after umpteen years in metro D.C.

Wife retired from "first" career and I sold a business. I said I didn't want to renovate another house.......well, that didn't work out. It's all good as no house in established areas has what we want.

Nice place, we can walk to a music venue and cycling is pretty good. Most motorists are pretty friendly (unlike assassins behind wheels in metro D.C.). Beach is 2 hours and Asheville is 3.5 hours, both easy drives. Winters are easy.......rode the most miles ever in February.

Seemingly every third person we meet in Cary is from NJ/NY. Lots of folks from MD (like us), CA and CO as well.

[Nooch]

Way back thread........but this is where we landed 2 years ago after umpteen years in metro D.C.

Wife retired from "first" career and I sold a business. I said I didn't want to renovate another house.......well, that didn't work out. It's all good as no house in established areas has what we want.

Nice place, we can walk to a music venue and cycling is pretty good. Most motorists are pretty friendly (unlike assassins behind wheels in metro D.C.). Beach is 2 hours and Asheville is 3.5 hours, both easy drives. Winters are easy.......rode the most miles ever in February.

Seemingly every third person we meet in Cary is from NJ/NY. Lots of folks from MD (like us), CA and CO as well.

I feel like my wife suddenly has her sites set solely on Bluffton given her Aunt/Uncle are there. This will take some time to work out, naturally, can't make decisions like this overnight, but I'd imagine if we try it'll be Summer 2020...

[AngryScientist]

NorCal is the only place i would move to from here, and likely we will give that a go at some point in the future.

my only advice to you Nooch, is dont pin all your eggs in the "work from home" job basket. i would personally be hesitant to move to a place without a strong employment market and bank on having a job for the LONG haul. In today;s economy, stability is not what it once was.