why no lugged ti?

[yeehawfactor]

in the sense of lugged steel. why?

[e-RICHIE]

in the sense of lugged steel. why?


it was done back in the 70s.
it's not cost efficient - period.

[ThylacineCycles]

How is it less efficient than lugged steel, Richo? I seem to recall Dave Bohm trying to woo me with the thought of brazing ti by saying all you need is a special flux, although he could've been having a lend of me.

I guess also there isn't a rich history of lugged ti for people to draw upon emotionally, too. Ti seems to have that austere industrial appeal and that's where it's cache lies.

Naturally, with the right design a ti lugset would be very cool. You could braze it (according to Dave), and you could also theoretically bond any tubes you like into it - ti, carbon, magnesium, Lexan...bamboo....

[The Spider]

A bike maker once told me that Ti was the most painful and expensive to weld (hadn't worked with magnesium though)....so anything that increases the amount of welds is going to increase time, imperfections / waste and therefore cashola.

[Kirk Pacenti]

A bike maker once told me that Ti was the most painful and expensive to weld (hadn't worked with magnesium though)....so anything that increases the amount of welds is going to increase time, imperfections / waste and therefore cashola.

Magnesium is much harder to weld than Ti.....from a welders (my) POV anyway.

I think Basso did a lugged Ti bike in the late 80's or early 90's. I only saw one picture of the bike...not sure if it even went into production.

Richard is right; it's just too expensive, and there really is nothing to be gained by using this method of joining tubes for Ti.

[palincss]

in the sense of lugged steel. why?

It's certainly not unknown. Harry Havnoonian makes (or made) lugged titanium frames. There are a bunch in the Oxon Hill (MD) Bike Club.

[Kirk Pacenti]

It's certainly not unknown. Harry Havnoonian makes (or made) lugged titanium frames. There are a bunch in the Oxon Hill (MD) Bike Club.


Yes, he does....sorta. The lugs are actually stainless steel and he bonds Ti tubes into them. I am under the impression that YHF was asking about Ti on Ti construction.

[fiamme red]

It's certainly not unknown. Harry Havnoonian makes (or made) lugged titanium frames. There are a bunch in the Oxon Hill (MD) Bike Club.http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=14630

Also, Miyata in the early '90's made a frame with titanium tubes bonded to aluminum lugs.

[fiamme red]

it was done back in the 70s.
it's not cost efficient - period.Who else in the '70's used titanium except Speedwell and Teledyne? Both of these welded their frames.

[e-RICHIE]

Who else in the '70's used titanium except Speedwell and Teledyne? Both of these welded their frames.

cec behringer made them.
i was a client of his for the superb i.c. fork crowns
he intro'ed in 1975 and in the corresponences i had
with him (some saved here) he described the lugmaking
process and the special alloys that were developed to
make true brazing a possibility. i'd wager he made
less than 10 in all, but he was a materials pioneer as
well as an icon within the a.w.s. world - this, in addition
to being a former 6 day racer atafj.

[yeehawfactor]

Yes, he does....sorta. The lugs are actually stainless steel and he bonds Ti tubes into them. I am under the impression that YHF was asking about Ti on Ti construction.
yes, in this post i'm only interesting in ti on ti action!

[e-RICHIE]

yes, in this post i'm only interesting in ti on ti action!

oh - the possibilities vis-a-vis our beloved
google image search for "tied up"...

[Dr. Doofus]

yes, in this post i'm only interesting in ti on ti action!

ti, in a decision

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=ti&word2=ti

[bfd]

There's one on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TITANIUM-handmade-HARRY-HAVNOONIAN-frame-57cm_W0QQitemZ7217464135QQcategoryZ98084QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

[yeehawfactor]

There's one on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TITANIUM-handmade-HARRY-HAVNOONIAN-frame-57cm_W0QQitemZ7217464135QQcategoryZ98084QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem
interesting ss:
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/2/2/0/8/7/webimg/4363480_o.jpg

the lugs also don't look like a standard lugged bike. hmmmmm........

[e-RICHIE]

interesting ss:
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/2/2/0/8/7/webimg/4363480_o.jpg

the lugs also don't look like a standard lugged bike. hmmmmm........

on lugged frames, lugs solve a problem.
on others, they create problems.

[yeehawfactor]

on lugged frames, lugs solve a problem.
on others, they create problems.
correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't this design put stress on the brake bridge when you tighten the seat collar? would it not also be hard to ensure that the bonding agent moved through the length of the lug? i wonder if the ss is 2 tubes+lugs of if it's 4 tubes plus lugs

[e-RICHIE]

correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't this design put stress on the brake bridge when you tighten the seat collar? would it not also be hard to ensure that the bonding agent moved through the length of the lug? i wonder if the ss is 2 tubes+lugs of if it's 4 tubes plus lugs


that's outside my area of 01100010 01110101 01101100 01101100 01110011 01101000 01100101 01110100 01100001 01100010 01101001 01101100 01101001 01110100 01111001 :beer:

[Serotta PETE]

What would LUGS add to a Ti frame, besides weight & complexity? Additionally others have said that it is a "XXXXH" to weld.


THANKS

[rpm]

My ten-year old Havnoonian ti has held up just fine. The big steel lugs stiffen up the bottom bracket. I'm currently upgrading some of its components. It is no doubt aesthetically challenged, so I figure I shouldn't attempt to try to make it look attractive in the conventional sense, but rather try to heighten its uber-industrial look, in the same way one might leave all the pipes and ducts exposed in a new loft. In that vein, I've replaced the Kinesis fork with a new Would Up fork, since the big crown and round tubes match the frame. I'd like to find a crankset and stem to continue the look. Any suggestions?

[pdonk]

.... I'd like to find a crankset and stem to continue the look. Any suggestions?

For crank set I'd try to find an older Cook Bros CBR's with a road spider or syncros road revolutions. Both have a distinct industrial look to them. Both are pretty rare.

Images and descriptions of both:

http://www.bikepro.com/products/cranks/cooks.html

http://www.bikepro.com/products/cranks/syncros.html

[The Spider]

these remind me of Syncros Revolutions:

http://www.tune.de/tune_gb/index.php?lang=gb&ebene=3&typ=2&nr=5