This is getting ridiculous. Specialized lawsuits again?

[yoshirider]

Repost from ww forum. Specialized needs to stop. Boycott them please!

http://www.neilprydebikes.com/news/latest/allez-allez-nazare.html

[oldpotatoe]

Repost from ww forum. Specialized needs to stop. Boycott them please!

http://www.neilprydebikes.com/news/latest/allez-allez-nazare.html

Been boycotting them for years...like forever, rather walk than use anything spec-ed..

[Llewellyn]

Been boycotting them for years...like forever, rather walk than use anything spec-ed..

Hehe, same here.

I rather have my teeth pulled than use anything by Spe...

[jr59]

Spesialized is becoming the Rolex of the bike world.

At least as far as their legal dept goes.


Now watch me get a letter from Rolex telling me to cease and desist!

[moose8]

How dumb would someone have to be to actually confuse the two? Two many people with power/money just love to bully others around.

[Black Dog]

Specialized started by copying the good ideas of others and has not found a way to behave in a decent manor since. Once a weasel always a weasel. There are so many other options that are as good or better than spec-ed in terms of product and company; life is not hard to live without them.

[oldpotatoe]

Spesialized is becoming the Rolex of the bike world.

At least as far as their legal dept goes.


Now watch me get a letter from Rolex telling me to cease and desist!

Hey, HEY, HEY!!!

Cease and desist!!!

[witcombusa]

Why would you have a problem with them protecting their model names?

Their Allez bikes go back to the beginning (early 80's). The company was created with good ideas and people making some great production bikes that performed close to bikes costing twice as much. I love the 80's stuff. Some of the best bike folks on the northwest coast were part of the program at one time or another. You could even say they were a big part of sprung out of this time period.

Tim Neeman, Jim Merz, Mark Dinucci were early frame designer/builders that created that early magic.

[oldpotatoe]

Why would you have a problem with them protecting their model names?

Their Allez bikes go back to the beginning (early 80's). The company was created with good ideas and people making some great production bikes that performed close to bikes costing twice as much. I love the 80's stuff. Some of the best bike folks on the northwest coast were part of the program at one time or another. You could even say they were a big part of sprung out of this time period.

Tim Neeman, Jim Merz, Mark Dinucci were early frame designer/builders that created that early magic.

Allez...Alize.......http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/alize

'Z' silent in allez..sounded in alize..so not even pronounced the same.

Neil Pride small, small $..Spec-ed HUGE, BIG $..like lots of stuff, Too expensive to fight Synard, even if they won..cost too much..

[witcombusa]

Allez...Alize.......http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/alize

'Z' silent in allez..sounded in alize..so not even pronounced the same.

Neil Pride small, small $..Spec-ed HUGE, BIG $..like lots of stuff, Too expensive to fight Synard, even if they won..cost too much..

Well back when Tim was designing those first range of iconic bikes for Mike, they were just small, small $ too! I've got no problem with him protecting the brand he made.

[wooly]

Well back when Tim was designing those first range of iconic bikes for Mike, they were just small, small $ too! I've got no problem with him protecting the brand he made.


I'm not a Specialized hater but don't you think this is a bit going too far? The two names are not pronounced the same and they have different meanings. I would agree that the big S is using its size to bully the little guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveV0983]

I don't see what he's "protecting". Aside from the people at Spc-d, no one in the world would confuse these 2, so it's just another case of bullying.

I think the estate of Edgar Purnell Hooley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarmac) should sue Spec'd for an exact ripoff of the name of his invention. Or maybe the country of Belize should sue them because, not knowing the "proper" pronunciation of Allez, I could confuse them.

I choose not to support these types of business practices which is why I don't shop at Walmart and I no longer buy Spec'd.

[fuzzalow]

I don't know ding about anything Specialized and could not care even less than that. But in this case, as Allez and Alize are both names given to a model of bicycle and Allez was out in the marketplace first, the S-brand are in the right. This presumes my facts are correct on a subject I know have no interest or knowledge about.

The Johnny-come-lately that named his bike offering Alize knew what lay in store. Cry me a river you poor downtrodden.

[tuscanyswe]

Cant help to think specialized is shooting themselves in the foot and i rather like it. Soon enough it will trickle down to even more ppl not wanting to buy their gear. Pity some have to suffer from Specialized antics on they way down ! :/

[Rada]

I am one of those who does not even consider buying any new Specialized products. However, I'd not mind at all owning a Konno or Tecsh built Allez.

[bobswire]

NeilPryde just got a boost to sales, if nothing else Specializeds activism spotlights other companies that otherwise may not been noticed by consumers.
This will go viral (FB et al) and Specialized will take another hit, justified or not, in no small part to them yelling Wolf once too many times.
I disagree with another poster that thinks this promotes Specialized sales, in fact I think this hinders sales for Specialized since it will keep some folks from even walking into a shop the sells Specialized.

[enr1co]

Allez...Alize.......http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/alize

'Z' silent in allez..sounded in alize..so not even pronounced the same.

Neil Pride small, small $..Spec-ed HUGE, BIG $..like lots of stuff, Too expensive to fight Synard, even if they won..cost too much..

...and as the Neil Pryde bulletin mentions, the two words have completely exclusive meanings.

Alize' = wind or tradewind

Allez= conjugagted form of the French verb "aller" meaning "to go"


Allez to h*ll Specialized!

[witcombusa]

I am one of those who does not even consider buying any new Specialized products. However, I'd not mind at all owning a Konno or Tecsh built Allez.


Here's my '87 Team Allez built by Dave Tecsh

[RedRider]

Specialized is now known more for litigation than innovation. It would be great if someone could claim they owned the name Specialized...

[BryanE]

Specialized is now known more for litigation than innovation. It would be great if someone could claim they owned the name Specialized...

You've ridden one of their Epic model mtn bikes?
If you did you wouldn't have written what you did about innovation.
It's popular to hate the big companies.
None of you really think that anyone in the USA except die hard cyclists know what Allez means or how to pronounce it?
Trademark infringement that makes the S haters hate.
I'll think warm fuzzy thoughts of the haters during my next 50 mile mtn bike ride on my new Epic Expert model.
This is fun and could easily get to 15 pages.

[Veloo]

...and as the Neil Pryde bulletin mentions, the two words have completely exclusive meanings.

Alize' = wind or tradewind

Allez= conjugagted form of the French verb "aller" meaning "to go"


Allez to h*ll Specialized!

"Allez to h*ll"

Good one enr1co

[Rada]

Here's my '87 Team Allez built by Dave Tecsh

Gorgeous! :beer:

[cfox]

Neil Pryde isn't some little bike shop in Canada. They are a pretty big company known more for windsurfing stuff. Naming one of their bikes "Alize" was idiotic. Not a big fan of Spec's legal department, but I can see where they are coming from in this case.

[RedRider]

You've ridden one of their Epic model mtn bikes?
If you did you wouldn't have written what you did about innovation.
It's popular to hate the big companies.
None of you really think that anyone in the USA except die hard cyclists know what Allez means or how to pronounce it?
Trademark infringement that makes the S haters hate.
I'll think warm fuzzy thoughts of the haters during my next 50 mile mtn bike ride on my new Epic Expert model.
This is fun and could easily get to 15 pages.

It's almost funny that you chose the Epic model to make your point. Specialized sued a small wheelbuilder who was using the name Epic...

[Anarchist]

It's almost funny that you chose the Epic model to make your point. Specialized sued a small wheelbuilder who was using the name Epic...

They should have sued Rapha. (now it will hit 20 pages)

[BryanE]

It's almost funny that you chose the Epic model to make your point. Specialized sued a small wheelbuilder who was using the name Epic...

I almost laughed.

[thirdgenbird]

It's almost funny that you chose the Epic model to make your point. Specialized sued a small wheelbuilder who was using the name Epic...

And it was silly to use the epic name as well. It's like its some big surprise that specialized responds when someone infringes on a trademark in the cycling industry. Specialized sued Epic Design and then an independant wheel builder thought it would be a good idea to use the name Epic Wheelworks? No sympathy from me.

Meanwhile, trek sues subaru for crosstrek and no one seems to care.

[bobswire]

And it was silly to use the epic name as well. It's like its some big surprise that specialized responds when someone infringes on a trademark in the cycling industry. Specialized sued Epic Design and then an independant wheel builder thought it would be a good idea to use the name Epic Wheelworks? No sympathy from me.

Meanwhile, trek sues subaru for crosstrek and no one seems to care.

DUH, prolly because there has been little if any chatter about Trek suing Subaru (the first I've heard) Trek has it's own demons to exorcise whereas Specialized is a serial Suer.

[thirdgenbird]

DUH, prolly because there has been little if any chatter about Trek suing Subaru (the first I've heard) Trek has it's own demons to exorcise whereas Specialized is a serial Suer.

That sort of proves my point. The trek lawsuit was in the same media sources but there was no social media backlash. I posted a thread about it and there wan no army of trek hate.

Specialized is likely a serial suer because there is more opportunity. Don't fool yourself into thinking any other company would act differently in specialized's position. Speedplay has had their fare sare of legal battles but they are still well supported.

[Salsa_Lover]

The question, for me, is about how absurd is American patent or commercial law that let a company take ownership on a common French word or names of towns.

They obviously don't belong to specialized in any way !

[thirdgenbird]

^that

If anything, complain about copyright law. We have had very tiny local businesses receive cease and desist letters from the likes of VW and Harley for similar manners. This isn't something that is exclusive to some clan of evil people from Morgan Hill.

[Shortsocks]

I was at our local Brick and Morter shop in Richardson TX, "Richardson bike mart" shopping for a new bike for my sister-in-law. And people were buying specialized bikes right and left. 9 out of 10 bikes being test ridden were Specialized, in fact one of two bikes that we test road was a black and blue Allez.

No joke, there were specialized bikes EVERYWHERE! From entry models to 20 thousand dollar enve laced s-works, being bought, repaired and test ridden. I'm pretty sure that if you asked any of these people about what specializes does with their legal department none of them would care or know. Even our salesman had no clue when I asked him.

So obviously Specialized's douchebag moves aren't harming their reputation in the general market, and it won't effect most of us here anymore because a lot of us ride italian, custom and independent bikes. So it's preaching to the choir....

But I'll tell you ONE thing. We DID NOT by a specialized yesterday. :)

[gianni]

I thought about holding onto my Tarmac as I like the bike, but enough is enough.

I'm in for boycott.

[tuscanyswe]

I was at our local Brick and Morter shop in Richardson TX, "Richardson bike mart" shopping for a new bike for my sister-in-law. And people were buying specialized bikes right and left. 9 out of 10 bikes being test ridden were Specialized, in fact one of two bikes that we test road was a black and blue Allez.

No joke, there were specialized bikes EVERYWHERE! From entry models to 20 thousand dollar enve laced s-works, being bought, repaired and test ridden. I'm pretty sure that if you asked any of these people about what specializes does with their legal department none of them would care or know. Even our salesman had no clue when I asked him.

So obviously Specialized's douchebag moves aren't harming their reputation in the general market, and it won't effect most of us here anymore because a lot of us ride italian, custom and independent bikes. So it's preaching to the choir....

But I'll tell you ONE thing. We DID NOT by a specialized yesterday. :)

It may not have done significant damage yet but it will eventually if they keep doing what they are doing imo. Its a new world coming n ppl are becoming more and more aware about everything. I like it!

I dont believe spec is the only one and 100x worse than anyone else nore would i buy there bikes regardless of these things.

[witcombusa]

The question, for me, is about how absurd is American patent or commercial law that let a company take ownership on a common French word or names of towns.

They obviously don't belong to specialized in any way !


They do as it applies to a bicycle name. That is how it works. In a not related field you can use the name if another company in that field does not hold a trademark. So let's just say you can name your new toilet model the Allez.
No worries :banana:

[rain dogs]

Why would you have a problem with them protecting their model names?

Because this behavior is not free market capitalism. Something many US firms/individuals go around spouting off about, but have little to no idea what that actually implies.

Copyright, Trademark and Patents have been corrupted to be a means of monopolization.

Specialized is not 'protecting' themselves with this litigation, they're attempting to eliminate/control competition :rolleyes:

[harryblack]

Specialized are scum, and their accessories mediocre at best, inferior often. Strange that wannabe 'copyright' (sic) lawyers and MBA 'brand' dorks could possible defend this even in jest.

I only wish Neil Pryde had the $$$ & energy to kick Sinyard in the nuts over this, "alas." (Can I say that on a bike forum or it too close to "Allez"?)

Other potential bike names to threaten litigation over:

the Paceline Alamaba Getaway
the Paceline Allay
the Paceline Allegation
the Paceline Alight
the Paceline Allouette
the Paceline Alvy Singer
the Paceline Anal Entree
the Paceline Arriviste
the Paceline Elides, Hey!
the Paceline Elise
the Paceline Elision

etc etc

[Ti Designs]

I think y'all are confused. The Specialized legal department doesn't make bikes. I happen to think that Specialized makes some wonderful bikes and they are helping to bring the cost of performance down so more consumers can enjoy it. That can only work if they take all the power hungry pricks within the company, quarantine them in one department and give them some stupid task to keep 'em busy. I wish Serotta had done that...

[RedRider]

As a small (very) business owner I am particularly sensitive to issues where a big legal department takes on a little guy. In the past, "crying Uncle" was the only recourse but now social media can play a big role in influencing these actions. I also know enough about copyright/patent law to know that there are ways of enforcing ownership without being the bully. One would have thought the Big S would have been very tactful after the fiasco with the Canadian bike shop.
There are many stories of similar situations that have been worked out amicably.
Often it's not what you say but how you say it.

[jbrainin]

One would have thought the Big S would have been very tactful after the fiasco with the Canadian bike shop.

You gotta love how Specialized sued to protect a trademark they didn't even own. Not everybody has the marbles to try that!

[1centaur]

Because this behavior is not free market capitalism. Something many US firms/individuals go around spouting off about, but have little to no idea what that actually implies.

Copyright, Trademark and Patents have been corrupted to be a means of monopolization.

Specialized is not 'protecting' themselves with this litigation, they're attempting to eliminate/control competition :rolleyes:

People who believe in capitalism know what they mean by free market capitalism. Only the left claims the right wants a free for all.

Here's an NBA analogy on "free market capitalism" for the record:

Playing Bball with no rules at all: What the left says the right wants.

"Let 'em play": What the right wants.

"Calling the game closely": What the left wants.

Blowing the whistle every time opponents make physical contact, thus changing the game completely and for the worse for everyone: What the right fears the left wants.

As for the matter at hand, the irony is that Specialized's legal department has forced Neil Pryde to use a better, more memorable name. "Allez" is such a bland, generic name and Alize is not much better.

There's not much chance that Specialized would lose sales to Neil Pride based on name confusion, so they must be focused on something else. What? The slippery slope from Alize to Allayz to Alze leading at some point down the road to somebody claiming (and a judge agreeing) that they can use something very close to Allez because the name is not distinct enough - Spesh had let it fall into public domain use. This is the way lawyers think, because there have been cases vaguely like that in the past. The plausible becomes the arguable becomes the fact. Judges unfortunately buy into that slippery slope too, and the cycle continues. So Spesh lawyers can wait until that distant moment and argue the merits, or they can assure their victory today by low rent threats like the one we're discussing. They choose the latter, and in so doing lose a few sales from a few people who are very focused on the bicycle business. Neil Pryde loses very little and may gain it back in other ways. Spesh loses a little money on their lawyers but assures its property remains its own.

And yes, trademarks and patents are monopolies, blessed by the state for good reason. The downside for society of not allowing those monopolies is kind of obvious. It's not "corruption" it's common sense. What's not common sense is allowing lawyers to argue the slippery slope from A to E when judges should have greater faith in the ability of people to distinguish Allez from Alize, for example.

[Black Dog]

I don't know ding about anything Specialized and could not care even less than that. But in this case, as Allez and Alize are both names given to a model of bicycle and Allez was out in the marketplace first, the S-brand are in the right. This presumes my facts are correct on a subject I know have no interest or knowledge about.

The Johnny-come-lately that named his bike offering Alize knew what lay in store. Cry me a river you poor downtrodden.

Wow. I hope that you are being sarcastic on this matter.

[biker72]

I think y'all are confused. The Specialized legal department doesn't make bikes. I happen to think that Specialized makes some wonderful bikes and they are helping to bring the cost of performance down so more consumers can enjoy it. That can only work if they take all the power hungry pricks within the company, quarantine them in one department and give them some stupid task to keep 'em busy. I wish Serotta had done that...

+1
I have 2 Specialized bikes. I'm keeping them.
The general public seems to be totally unaware of Specialized's legal gyrations.

[OtayBW]

I'd like to request that my shoes be grandfathered in on this boycott. :rolleyes:

Seriously, Spec is really not ingratiating themselves to me....

[witcombusa]

Because this behavior is not free market capitalism. Something many US firms/individuals go around spouting off about, but have little to no idea what that actually implies.

Copyright, Trademark and Patents have been corrupted to be a means of monopolization.

Specialized is not 'protecting' themselves with this litigation, they're attempting to eliminate/control competition :rolleyes:

All they gotta do is come up with THEIR own name

[OtayBW]

All they gotta do is come up with THEIR own name
I think that's the point. Many - perhaps most around here - believe they did just that.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I saw the Alize in person at my LBS when the sales rep came by trying to get the LBS to carry it. I never once confused it for a Specialized Allez. First, you'd have to get past the massive Neil Pryde decal on the downtube. No way would anyone confuse Neil Pryde with Specialized. Secondly, the sales rep pronounced the name of the model correctly, which is distinct from "Allez".

I once represented a wine company from Washington that decided to sue a California wine company for trademark infringement because it thought the name of the California company was too close to its own. By coincidence, I was a member of the wine club of the California company and I convinced my Washington client that it was mispronouncing the California company's name. When pronounced correctly, there was no similarity between the names. The suit settled fairly quickly and painlessly for all involved.

Sinyard really needs to reign in the legal department before it torpedoes his own brand.

[rain dogs]

People who believe in capitalism know what they mean by free market capitalism.

Exactly. They know what they mean, because their definition fits their own convenient ideas. However, they often don't understand what is held and conceded in a true free market.

Your analogy illustrates the confusion perfectly. I fear for turning this into a political derail, so I won't say much more than the left and right have never wanted either of those NBA analogies. But I honestly am only assuming your left and right are a fairly standard definition.


Anyway, back to Specialized - monopolization shouldn't exist in a true free market. Agreed? Those concepts are at odds. Therefore, if a company like Specialized is using litigious tactics as a means to monopolize the market, they by extension, have foregone their right to claim they want to participate in a free market. In fact, I'm sure they don't want to exist in a free market. Very few large corporations align anywhere near ideas of free market. Imagine they had to survive without corporate welfare/subsidies? Ha! Yeah right.

[bikinchris]

Spesialized is becoming the Rolex of the bike world.

At least as far as their legal dept goes.


Now watch me get a letter from Rolex telling me to cease and desist!

No, they are becoming the Apple of the bike world.

[rain dogs]

All they gotta do is come up with THEIR own name

Forest and trees.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

You've ridden one of their Epic model mtn bikes?
If you did you wouldn't have written what you did about innovation.
It's popular to hate the big companies.
None of you really think that anyone in the USA except die hard cyclists know what Allez means or how to pronounce it?
Trademark infringement that makes the S haters hate.
I'll think warm fuzzy thoughts of the haters during my next 50 mile mtn bike ride on my new Epic Expert model.
This is fun and could easily get to 15 pages.

Isn't the Epic another design they "bought?"

[Salsa_Lover]

How about Specialites Alizé ? They must cease and desist too?

http://www.specialites-ta.com/produits/ped_ali_gb.htm

[BryanE]

Isn't the Epic another design they "bought?"

I was referrring to the brain shock.
I thought that was obvious.
Sorry.

[Veloo]

Dunno if this has been posted before but nice to have things summarized in one spot for my convenience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialized_Bicycle_Components

Litigation

Specialized has a history of aggressively protecting its trademarks.

In 1990, Specialized tried to sue RockShox Inc, claiming the company's name too closely resembled the bicycle model name Rockhopper[17] The case was ultimately dismissed with prejudice.

In 2006 Specialized sued Mountain Cycle over its use of the model name "Stumptown" (nickname for Portland), alleging it resembled the Specialized model name Stumpjumper.[18] Mountain Cycle closed doors shortly thereafter.

In 2009 Specialized had a trademark dispute with a manufacturer of bicycle bags, Epic Designs, now Revelate Designs.

In 2011 Portland wheel builder Epic Wheel Works was forced to change its name due to potential trademark conflict with Specialized.[19]

In 2012 the company sued two former employees after they started the bicycle brand Volagi. Specialized lost on all accounts except one and was awarded one dollar in damages after spending 2.5 million dollars on the lawsuit.[20][21]

In 2013 Specialized mailed a small bike shop owner in Canada a cease and desist letter over its use of the city name Roubaix in its shop name and wheels, the name of a town in France that rose to prominence as a textile center in the 15th century [22] and has hosted an iconic bicycle race since 1896.[23][24] This follows on from Specialized's trademarking of the word in Canada. The situation and behavior towards the shop owner caused some reactions from cyclists worldwide in the days after a story on the matter was published by the Calgary Herald in early December 2013.[25][26] On the 9th of December Fuji Bikes owner, Advanced Sports International of Philadelphia said that in fact, they are the legal owner of worldwide rights to the Roubaix trademark. Fuji has had a Fuji Roubaix road bike model in its lineup since 1992, and has licensed the name to Specialized since 2003.[27] However, as it is not currently possible to have a trademark worldwide, Fuji has no rights to allow use of the trademark in Canada.[28]

[brando]

Free markets ≠ capitalism. However, capitalism = monopolies. That's not politics, just Economics.

Also, I have no idea why Specialized devotes their resources to these nitpicky legal battles. It's only a drain on their bottom line. Someone else had mentioned Apple, however in Apple's case they have won nearly a billion $ in court.

[CunegoFan]

Dunno if this has been posted before but nice to have things summarized in one spot for my convenience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialized_Bicycle_Components

Litigation

Specialized has a history of aggressively protecting its trademarks.

In 1990, Specialized tried to sue RockShox Inc, claiming the company's name too closely resembled the bicycle model name Rockhopper[17] The case was ultimately dismissed with prejudice.

In 2006 Specialized sued Mountain Cycle over its use of the model name "Stumptown" (nickname for Portland), alleging it resembled the Specialized model name Stumpjumper.[18] Mountain Cycle closed doors shortly thereafter.

In 2009 Specialized had a trademark dispute with a manufacturer of bicycle bags, Epic Designs, now Revelate Designs.

In 2011 Portland wheel builder Epic Wheel Works was forced to change its name due to potential trademark conflict with Specialized.[19]

In 2012 the company sued two former employees after they started the bicycle brand Volagi. Specialized lost on all accounts except one and was awarded one dollar in damages after spending 2.5 million dollars on the lawsuit.[20][21]

In 2013 Specialized mailed a small bike shop owner in Canada a cease and desist letter over its use of the city name Roubaix in its shop name and wheels, the name of a town in France that rose to prominence as a textile center in the 15th century [22] and has hosted an iconic bicycle race since 1896.[23][24] This follows on from Specialized's trademarking of the word in Canada. The situation and behavior towards the shop owner caused some reactions from cyclists worldwide in the days after a story on the matter was published by the Calgary Herald in early December 2013.[25][26] On the 9th of December Fuji Bikes owner, Advanced Sports International of Philadelphia said that in fact, they are the legal owner of worldwide rights to the Roubaix trademark. Fuji has had a Fuji Roubaix road bike model in its lineup since 1992, and has licensed the name to Specialized since 2003.[27] However, as it is not currently possible to have a trademark worldwide, Fuji has no rights to allow use of the trademark in Canada.[28]

Those are nothing. Check out what Specialized did to Stratos.

[regularguy412]

DUH, prolly because there has been little if any chatter about Trek suing Subaru (the first I've heard) Trek has it's own demons to exorcise whereas Specialized is a serial Sewer.

There. Fixed it for ya.

Mike in AR:beer:

[bobswire]

There. Fixed it for ya.

Mike in AR:beer:

:)

[bikinchris]

Free markets ≠ capitalism. However, capitalism = monopolies. That's not politics, just Economics.

Also, I have no idea why Specialized devotes their resources to these nitpicky legal battles. It's only a drain on their bottom line. Someone else had mentioned Apple, however in Apple's case they have won nearly a billion $ in court.

Highjack alert. I promise to stop after this.

That doesn't make Apple less of a lawsuit bitch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation

To be fair, they were sued for stupid stuff, like Apple records suing them.

[ultraman6970]

They sue them for everything they owned. The company obviously had to close. The claim was something related with a suspension dampening thingy that apprently specialized designed?? Probably was not even close but well... pieces are pieces..... Story short, Stratos closed the shop right away... sure this family lost everything they owned...

Those are nothing. Check out what Specialized did to Stratos.

[AJosiahK]

I'm no hater, but havent been a fan for years. I would honestly prefer to see such cycling companies put their efforts and finances towards other things that benefit cyclists and cycling as a culture. These last few lawsuits have really shown who they really are, and what they care about. Too much power/money in someONEs hands leads to an ever slippery slope, more more more, me me me.

It's too bad.

[fuzzalow]

Wow. I hope that you are being sarcastic on this matter.

Hey there Black Dog, so we meet again.:)

No, I was not being sarcastic at all in my reply. Sarcasm is difficult to convey in written form in the forums so I rarely, if ever, use it in posts.

All the side chatter about difference of pronunciation between Allez & Alize, what the words mean, yadda, yadda, yadda. All meaningless and concoctions and rationalizations to take a dig at Specialized and engage in Spesh hate. That's fine as far as conversation but IMO groundless as to the facts and the legal realities.

The only thing that matters as far as infringement of trademark is that there is a marked similarity and likeness that infringes on the name and likeness as used on a similar product with established precedence in the marketplace. So being first to market with a bike called "Allez" counts for something. "Alize" as branded to a crankset doesn't count, nor would "Alize" to a microwave oven or a pair of sneakers because a consumer can't confuse the two products as the same by them simply being branded as "Alize". But "Allez" and "Alize" as logos branded on a down tube of competing bicycles, that reads close enough to create a problem.

The guy that branded his bicycle "Alize" IMO both knew what he was doing and also knows full well the rigor at which Specialized protects their trademarks. I looked at this entire thing as a form of guerrilla marketing. The old adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity. What else was really gonna happen but a lawsuit? I don't know if Alize-bike maker is crying about it, but if he is, that is very disingenuous.

[peanutgallery]

Today I went for an epic ride on my Niner. Sinyard can suck it, my legal team is working diligently night and day to sue Specialized, as the day of my birth was before sinyard co-opted said date. I am Epic - and what not

As bad as this example with Neil Pryde is, just thank the gods you are not a special ed dealer. They are treated even worse

[ultraman6970]

Greed is the key word...

[Anarchist]

Highjack alert. I promise to stop after this.

That doesn't make Apple less of a lawsuit bitch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation

To be fair, they were sued for stupid stuff, like Apple records suing them.

Here's a thought,

Grow up.

[Black Dog]

Hi. There are a lot of suppositions in your post here that you are claiming to be fact. Just wondering how you 'know' the intent and motives of the folks at Neil pride. :rolleyes: Btw I am not trying to be Moriarty to your Holmes.

Hey there Black Dog, so we meet again.:)

No, I was not being sarcastic at all in my reply. Sarcasm is difficult to convey in written form in the forums so I rarely, if ever, use it in posts.

All the side chatter about difference of pronunciation between Allez & Alize, what the words mean, yadda, yadda, yadda. All meaningless and concoctions and rationalizations to take a dig at Specialized and engage in Spesh hate. That's fine as far as conversation but IMO groundless as to the facts and the legal realities.

The only thing that matters as far as infringement of trademark is that there is a marked similarity and likeness that infringes on the name and likeness as used on a similar product with established precedence in the marketplace. So being first to market with a bike called "Allez" counts for something. "Alize" as branded to a crankset doesn't count, nor would "Alize" to a microwave oven or a pair of sneakers because a consumer can't confuse the two products as the same by them simply being branded as "Alize". But "Allez" and "Alize" as logos branded on a down tube of competing bicycles, that reads close enough to create a problem.

The guy that branded his bicycle "Alize" IMO both knew what he was doing and also knows full well the rigor at which Specialized protects their trademarks. I looked at this entire thing as a form of guerrilla marketing. The old adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity. What else was really gonna happen but a lawsuit? I don't know if Alize-bike maker is crying about it, but if he is, that is very disingenuous.

[fuzzalow]

Hi. There are a lot of suppositions in your post here that you are claiming to be fact. Just wondering how you 'know' the intent and motives of the folks at Neil pride. :rolleyes: Btw I am not trying to be Moriarty to your Holmes.

Which one of the lots of suppositions in my post are you in disagreement with?

I do not "know" the intent of the person who made the decision to call their bike "Alize", I merely surmised what seemed logical to me about the situation and gave my opinion. I made an assumption, and not a negative assumption, that the person in charge of naming the product is not stupid, naive or cavalier in his decision to name the bike "Alize".

The point about some of the legal grounds on trademark infringement is not a supposition, that part is factual.

I don't know, like or use Specialized products, in any way whatsoever. And I likewise do not hold Specialized worthy of rancor on everything they do simply because I do not like them.

Next time you object to what I wrote, gimme something a little more to go on. That way we can both have fun with the topic. :beer:

[sjbraun]

No worries. On the internet, assumptions = truth. I know because I think so.

[redir]

I don't know ding about anything Specialized and could not care even less than that. But in this case, as Allez and Alize are both names given to a model of bicycle and Allez was out in the marketplace first, the S-brand are in the right. This presumes my facts are correct on a subject I know have no interest or knowledge about.

The Johnny-come-lately that named his bike offering Alize knew what lay in store. Cry me a river you poor downtrodden.

And if you don't care or don't know what you are talking about then why bother? It would be like calling one bike Go and the other one Wind. Just because you can't speak French, Americanizing the two words doesn't make them the same.

[fuzzalow]

And if you don't care or don't know what you are talking about then why bother?

OK, I can see your point as correct to some degree.

I was making a comment based on legal grounds as they apply to trademark infringement and how some of the complaints voiced in this thread are, therefore, groundless and misdirected ire. You are right, I should not have bothered. No problem.

That's all for me on this one, see you at the next stop.

[Richard]

"And if you don't care or don't know what you are talking about then why bother? "

If that was the criteria for posting here, then somewhere between 95% and 99% of the posts wouldn't be here. Cripes, the man said it was an opinion and that was clear. The parts about the law were a whole lot more elucidating than the general "Specialized is evil" opinions expressed.

[Gummee]

I think y'all are confused. The Specialized legal department doesn't make bikes. I happen to think that Merida makes some wonderful bikes and they are helping to bring the cost of performance down so more consumers can enjoy it. That can only work if they take all the power hungry pricks within the company, quarantine them in one department and give them some stupid task to keep 'em busy. I wish Serotta had done that...Fixt

Personal opnion: Alize and Allez are nothing alike, but some highly paid lawyers evidently think they are.

M

[rwsaunders]

You guys have me freaking out a bit over all of this Specialized legal mess. I was glueing some tires this afternoon and Holy Mother of Merckx, I read the tire label (see photo) and I asked myself what will I do if Mike S et al see me stopped at a coffee shop and check out my bike.

[rwsaunders]

I'm now experimenting with some alternate names like Norway, Biscayne Bay, Doris Day...any help would be appreciated.

[sjbraun]

Effective immediately we are retiring our ALIZE bike name and replacing it with NAZARÉ. This is just a name change – your beloved bike will remain exactly the same.

This change comes at the behest of a well known bike company. According to their lawyers the ALIZE name was too close to one of their trademarked bike names and, as such, we need to stop using it.

We didn't really see it the same way. Both the spelling and meaning are completely different. All our names come from winds (or other water sports references) which is in our heritage. ALIZE is a north-easterly wind found in central Africa and the Caribbean. Any similarity with the name in question, however questionable, was purely coincidental. We are proud of our bikes and our heritage and wouldn't swap it for anyone's.

In the end, after months of arguing with lawyers, we were forced to change the name to avoid a protracted and potentially costly legal battle. We prefer to focus on designing great bikes than communicating with lawyers. As such, all ALIZE bikes produced from this spring will carry the name NAZARÉ.

Nazaré is a town and a well known big wave surfing spot on the coast of Portugal. It's fast, powerful and impressive – just like NAZARÉ.

We hope that you forgive us for this disruption.

So long ALIZE and allez, allez NAZARÉ!

[regularguy412]

I'm now experimenting with some alternate names like Norway, Biscayne Bay, Doris Day...any help would be appreciated.

Use a pic of Laraine Day and it'll be even more cryptic.

Mike in AR:beer:

[winmonster]

Fixt

Personal opnion: Alize and Allez are nothing alike, but some highly paid lawyers evidently think they are.

M

I wish I could give you Internet points for this. Congrats to NeilPride for being smart about this. (i.e. changing the name to avoid the lawsuit and calling Specialized a bunch of a-holes in the process)

[Scooper]

I wish I could give you Internet points for this. Congrats to NeilPride for being smart about this. (i.e. changing the name to avoid the lawsuit and calling Specialized a bunch of a-holes in the process)

+1

Yup. This isn't about trade mark infringement; it's about bullying.

[slidey]

Sinyard really needs to reign in the legal department before it torpedoes his own brand.
+1

I think its really the Legal Dept having a field day. It is naive to think that the two names are alike, if you know how to enunciate each correctly, but otherwise (which is every non-cyclist, and Allez is pretty much an entry-level road bike for the most part) I can definitely see an issue.

Add to that the closeness of the words themselves, in that there's only an "I" off between the two words and this issue gains some substance, in that its not all fluff.

Also I think its quite naive to assume that Mike Sinyard is meticulously targeting various smaller brands; he is ultimately and eventually responsible for everything that Specialized does, yes; but he doesn't go about doing these things expressly, of that I'm pretty damn confident.

[yoshirider]

Slightly OT but also somewhat relevant and might explain why the legal dept are serial suing companies. I came across these reviews of Specialized as an employer while trying to find out more about their legal dept. There are quite a few complaining about poor pay, long hours, poor management, being understaffed, and that they wouldn't recommend the company to others.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Specialized-Bicycle-Reviews-E3387.htm

[enr1co]

Slightly OT but also somewhat relevant and might explain why the legal dept are serial suing companies. I came across these reviews of Specialized as an employer while trying to find out more about their legal dept. There are quite a few complaining about poor pay, long hours, poor management, being understaffed, and that they wouldn't recommend the company to others.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Specialized-Bicycle-Reviews-E3387.htm

Thanks for the OT share. The word "toxic" comes up 2-3 times... maybe they should name one of their bikes this ;)

[oldpotatoe]

Slightly OT but also somewhat relevant and might explain why the legal dept are serial suing companies. I came across these reviews of Specialized as an employer while trying to find out more about their legal dept. There are quite a few complaining about poor pay, long hours, poor management, being understaffed, and that they wouldn't recommend the company to others.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Specialized-Bicycle-Reviews-E3387.htm

Know a guy, worked for Pearl Izumi, recruited by spec-ed, went there in soft goods, there for about 18 months, back at Pearl....'purgatory, other less polite descriptions of the company spec-ed.

[palincss]

Well back when Tim was designing those first range of iconic bikes for Mike, they were just small, small $ too! I've got no problem with him protecting the brand he made.


Not spelled the same, not pronounced the same, don't mean the same. Don't even have the same number of letters. Enough is enough, for crying out loud.

[jlwdm]

I do not see a likeness in the two names, I do not think Neil Pryde would get any sales by using Alize and I think the name Alize was a terrible name for a bike.

Jeff

[brando]

+1

Yup. This isn't about trade mark infringement; it's about bullying.

On the other hand, nobody's profited more from biting on the ideas of others than Sinyard.

[Waldo]

Neil Pryde isn't some little bike shop in Canada. They are a pretty big company known more for windsurfing stuff. Naming one of their bikes "Alize" was idiotic. Not a big fan of Spec's legal department, but I can see where they are coming from in this case.

It was idiotic only because for many years TA has made an Alize crank (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/alize.asp) not because it's similar to Allez.

[Vientomas]

Perhaps some manufacturer should name their bike: "Alley". Isn't that what all those Frenchies are saying? "Sacrebleu, you are riding your bike on a narrow French road - it is like an alley, alley." :)

[Llewellyn]

For me it's not so much about whether Spec is right in "protecting their trademark" (very, very debatable) but about the bullying tactics they use to get their way whenever they feel aggrieved about something.

I would love someone to call their bluff and take them on and win. But Spec know that it's prohibitive for all but the biggest companies to do that, so they keep on bullying and getting away with it.

It's the same sort of tactics that McVomits use, and why I wouldn't buy anything from either company if there was a gun at my head.