Sapim CX-Ray -- Best Place to Buy?

[Marcy]

Seeking advice --

I'm doing a wheelbuild with Sapim CX-Ray spokes, and wondered where folks have found the best deal.

In the past I've used Tree Fort Bikes for Wheelsmith spokes, and they have the CX-Rays for $50.99, for a bag of 20 (nipples not included).

The wheel build will be CK silver cross hubs (28/32) to polished silver Velocity A23 rims, with an O/C for the rear.

Front: 288mm

Rear: Left - 294mm
Right - 292mm

Will run these on an old classic Moots Psychlo X YBB (complete w/ 1" headtube) I rescued from Craigslist.

Thanks in advance for advice anyone can offer!

V/r,

-- Marc

[fuzzalow]

I have used Thor as a source for Sapims for close to 10 years. Thor USA for Sapim Spokes (http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/product10.htm)

Best deal? I dunno but esoteric products like these spokes are not normally found on the discount rack. Nobody is killing themselves and each other over price competition for stuff like this.

[gospastic]

http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/131.htm

[wallymann]

:-)

[Marcy]

Thanks guys -- this BHS place looks like a winner!

-- Marc

[yakstone]

I have used BHS, Treefort and also Jeremy at Alchemy in Broomfield.

All have been good suppliers. Jeremy will sell spokes by count - in just the numbers you want.

[buldogge]

Out of curiosity, are you running the Rays on the DS rear as well?

Getting ready to build some Record hubs on DT Swiss RR415/440OC shortly and was gonna use Wheelsmith DBs on the DS based on a bunch of posts here, in the past.

-Mark in St. Louis

[oldpotatoe]

Out of curiosity, are you running the Rays on the DS rear as well?

Getting ready to build some Record hubs on DT Swiss RR415/440OC shortly and was gonna use Wheelsmith DBs on the DS based on a bunch of posts here, in the past.

-Mark in St. Louis

Yep, glad somebody mentioned it or I may sound redundant again(get it?).

Unless the rider is like a buck thirty, and maybe even then depending on rim, spoke # and lacing, 14/15 drive side rear is a good idea.

[Marcy]

Mr. Chisholm,

I'm only 150lbs, but if you Sir suggest it, I must strongly consider revising my plan.

I thought the Sapims were supposed to be stronger than round spokes, or am I in error? What is the reason for the suggested substitution?

BTW, saw your Moots in Charlotte -- beautiful ride.

V/r,

-- Marc

[yakstone]

I am a "buck fifty" and used the Cx-rays all around on 28 hole rear. No issues. But then again I am pretty careful about paying attention to what is in front of me.

[oldpotatoe]

I am a "buck fifty" and used the Cx-rays all around on 28 hole rear. No issues. But then again I am pretty careful about paying attention to what is in front of me.

No doubt but adding a few grams to the wheel while subtracting $ and adding some reliability isn't a bad idea.

[yakstone]

^^ true statement Senior Spud.

[fuzzalow]

There was a recommendation for BHS in this thread and they are selling CX-Rays for a lower price than the source I use for CX-Rays, ThorUSA.

BHS offers a better deal but I will continue to buy all my Sapim spokes from ThorUSA. The reason why I do this is because Sapim spokes have not always been easily sourced here in the USA and ThorUSA had them way back to 2004 when I started using them, both the spokes and the vendor. ThorUSA was one the first that I knew of with ready stock in Sapims so I'll continue to buy from them even if places like BHS undercut them on price. Not everything comes down to price.

I have no connection with ThorUSA other than as a retail customer.

I'm hesitant to differ with the sage Old Spud but I have always built with CX-Rays for the entire wheel. Never a problem. I am not a heavy rider at 165lbs but weight has less to do with wheel longevity than even high tension, which some find hard to construct into the NDS DS of a rear wheel. The killer of spokes is not shear pressure, it is flexing from the load bearing pressure center rolling into and out of the slack point of the wheel structure. IMO.

[oldpotatoe]

There was a recommendation for BHS in this thread and they are selling CX-Rays for a lower price than the source I use for CX-Rays, ThorUSA.

BHS offers a better deal but I will continue to buy all my Sapim spokes from ThorUSA. The reason why I do this is because Sapim spokes have not always been easily sourced here in the USA and ThorUSA had them way back to 2004 when I started using them, both the spokes and the vendor. ThorUSA was one the first that I knew of with ready stock in Sapims so I'll continue to buy from them even if places like BHS undercut them on price. Not everything comes down to price.

I have no connection with ThorUSA other than as a retail customer.

I'm hesitant to differ with the sage Old Spud but I have always built with CX-Rays for the entire wheel. Never a problem. I am not a heavy rider at 165lbs but weight has less to do with wheel longevity than even high tension, which some find hard to construct into the NDS of a rear wheel. The killer of spokes is not shear pressure, it is flexing from the load bearing pressure center rolling into and out of the slack point of the wheel structure. IMO.

Yep, and there are 200 pound riders that ride everyday on 24h rear, CX-ray laced, light rim wheels and 'I've never touched them with a spoke wrench".


BUT after 28 years of building wheels, unless it's some wee rider, and maybe not even then, will I build thin spokes on the DS rear or aluminum nipples.

AND tie and solder to reduce the "flexing from the load bearing pressure center rolling into and out of the slack point of the wheel structure"

I think CX-rays and DT Aerolights are keen but worth the $2.50-$4 per I've seen..NOT IMHO. In a well bult wheel, it just doesn't make much(any?) difference when compared to Race(Comp), or Laser(Revolutions)..and no, no Revs or Lasers DS rear either.

[fuzzalow]

@ oldpotatoe in response to ^ post:

I don't disagree with what you have said.

My perspective may be slightly different from yours in that I am building wheels for myself that can skirt closer to fragility without incurring a potential business liability. I can truly know wheel anomalies arising from abuse that a customer might claim from JRA. And I have the skills to maintain and upkeep a potentially fragile wheel.

I typoed about NDS, I meant DS on the rear wheel as more difficult to wind high, even tension into. I never use aluminum nipples, they react poorly to high tension and are a maintenance headache after exposure to water!

[kramnnim]

I placed an order with BHS at around noon and it was in the mail later that day.

I have a set of Enve 3.4s built with CXrays all around...was JRA and a rear spoke popped. Oddly, it was a NDS.

[oldpotatoe]

I placed an order with BHS at around noon and it was in the mail later that day.

I have a set of Enve 3.4s built with CXrays all around...was JRA and a rear spoke popped. Oddly, it was a NDS.

If yer gonna break a spoke, most likely NDS..think metal coat hanger, bend, back-forth-back-forth..why spokes break, erratic and oftimes too low, tension, at the hub at the NDS.

How to fix with non-OC rims..raise the tension on the drive side...re-dish...

[Marcy]

Appreciate the discussion, this is really helpful.

I was flirting with the idea of trying Aluminum nipples (have always used brass), but I think I'll skip it and stick with what I know works.

Don't know how much objective data there is for bladed spokes being easier to move through the air, will have to do some research. They feel a little faster though.

Have a Sapim CX-Ray wheel set I picked up a while back from from an on-line builder, and they are nice -- no problems so far, but I'm a pretty conservative, careful (read middle age) rider.

[druptight]

Don't know how much objective data there is for bladed spokes being easier to move through the air, will have to do some research. They feel a little faster though.

The only real thing I notice when riding blades spokes, is the pronounced crosswind issues. But then again, I'm not out to break any land-speed records.

[Gummee]

I'm with the retireded wrench: I don't like building wheels with too-light spokes either. BTDT Got into a huge argument online with Jobst over 'flexy wheels' over it too.

That said: AL nipples are OK on the NDS but stick with brass on the DS if you want longevity.

You probably won't have problems immediately with AL on both sides of the rear wheel, but at some point you probably will have problems.

HTH

M

edited to add: Any LBS that has a BTI account can get you Sapim spokes

[Gummee]

The only real thing I notice when riding blades spokes, is the pronounced crosswind issues. But then again, I'm not out to break any land-speed records.

I gotta ask the question then: what are you doing riding bladed spokes and/or low spoke count (implied in the post) wheels?

:ear

M

[druptight]

I gotta ask the question then: what are you doing riding bladed spokes and/or low spoke count (implied in the post) wheels?

:ear

M

I'm not anymore. Was my first ever bike upgrade, went to some Ksyriums. They've since been passed along on the forum.

[Gummee]

I'm not anymore. Was my first ever bike upgrade, went to some Ksyriums. They've since been passed along on the forum.

:thumb

Ksyriums are great wheels, but...

M