New Campy 11-27

[UKBROOKLYN]

Has anyone seen this in the wild yet.. It's an 11 speed cassette, dropping the 16 and going all the way from 11 to 27...
Old Tater you seen it.?? any reviews ??

[oldpotatoe]

Has anyone seen this in the wild yet.. It's an 11 speed cassette, dropping the 16 and going all the way from 11 to 27...
Old Tater you seen it.?? any reviews ??

I have not. In the product book but I haven't seen one. Sure it'll work fine. Take 12-27, add 11t, remove 16...

[wc1934]

16th is my favorite. Am I the only one?

[bigbill]

Might work with a compact crankset. When I was riding shimano in the 90's an 8 speed 12-23 didn't have a 16. 53-16 is a bread and butter gear that gives you around 25 mph with a 90 rpm cadence. When I went 9 speed, I switched to campy and the 12-23 got a 16.

[technicolor]

They've been available for awhile now. I had a friend get one, maybe, 3 or 4 months ago. Ribble has them listed, but out of stock ATMO.

[Veloo]

16 is my fav too. And I hardly ever pushed the 11 when I had one.

[lhuerta]

...first they dropped the 18T when they went to 12-27 and now they are dropping the 16T?

Start writing to the Italian Parliament and lets bring back the 13-26 !!!

Lou

[UKBROOKLYN]

I was never that great at Maths but the last thing I am thinking about when I am out riding is how many teeth there are on the rear cog when I hit a sweet spot.
Perhaps I should pay more attention... but that means counting all the time or looking down... I guess that would let me know if I tend to use the 16 a lot though...
I ride a compact 50/34 and I see the 11-27 as a great all rounder.. yes there are times when I wish I had a smaller number one but as I get older I should probably be thinking about adding teeth at the other end.
All this being said will certainly be interested in reviews when people do actually start adopting the new combo.
I have also been reading a lot lately about people using a ShimaNo free hub on their wheels allowing an 11/28 (which would actually be cheaper than buying just the campy 11/27 cassette)

[oldpotatoe]

16th is my favorite. Am I the only one?

No...50/11 and certainly a 53/11 is a HUGE gear..I use a 50/12 and seldom even use that. When you think of cogs that you use or lose when you get an 11, even on 11s..a 16 or 18 is far more frequently used..unless you are worried about the Sunday afternoon "World Championships" with your coffee shop buddies.

My next 11s cogset will be 12-25...16 and 18t...34 and 25 still very low.

[Ralph]

For where I ride mostly, I would much rather have a 16 thn a 11, and a 18 rather than a 12. So a 13-26, has it all. With big ring in front and small rear cog of 13, can pedal past 30 MPH, even with 50X13, can pedal almost 30 MPH. Going faster downhill than that, will just coast. If I need more gear (bigger more spread out cogs) for a climbing ride, it's easy to just change a cassete for that particular ride. That's why I have a bunch of cassettes. I tend to gear my bikes for where I'm riding. I thought everyone did that.

[AngryScientist]

if you look at any of my bikes, the cassettes, for the most part are filthy with the smallest cogs shiny and clean. i very very rarely use the 11 or 12.

long downhills are for relaxing and coasting:)

[UKBROOKLYN]

If thats the case you could save dough by riding older 9 or 10 speed stuff..

[jpw]

adds little to the debate i'm sure, but my Rando has a 48x12 maximum gear and i'm stuck in it much of the time. 50x11 would be better. 53x11 is Cancellara territory.

[Tony T]

Has anyone seen this in the wild yet.. It's an 11 speed cassette, dropping the 16 and going all the way from 11 to 27...
Old Tater you seen it.?? any reviews ??

Got one about a year ago.
I only use the 11t when going downhill :)

[UKBROOKLYN]

what is your take on the missing 16.. do you notice the loss... what is the jump like..
Also
Interested to know how you got one a year before Campy announced them...

[UKBROOKLYN]

nm

[Lewis Moon]

16th is my favorite. Am I the only one?

I'm a big fan of single tooth steps right in the "meat" of the cogset. I'd rather have an 11-13 jump than lose one of the middle cogs.

[zap]

Need 12 speed.

I like and use the 11……..I like the 16 too.

12 speed…..11 to 17 straight then two step 19 to 27. Perfecto.

[Tony T]

what is your take on the missing 16.. do you notice the loss… what is the jump like..
Also Interested to know how you got one a year before Campy announced them...

I don't miss the 16t (I have another bike with the 11-25, and don't notice the missing 16, but I do notice the 27 going uphill :))
Got the cassette last year from one of the UK vendors, (ProBikeKit or Ribble, don't remember which one) — And it was announced by Campy when I got it.

Edit: Found the Thread where I 1st read about the 11-27 (July 2013, so it was 8 mo. ago, not a year) http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=133126&highlight=11-27

[Ralph]

The 12-27 and 12-30 been out a year or so. 11-27 is new to me.

[donevwil]

I bought a 12-27 and a 12-30 (both 10 spd)when they first came out. After a handful of rides I sold the 12-27, gave the 12-30 to my wife and began hoarding 13-26s and 13-29s. For me the 16 is mandatory, an 18 is appreciated and a 12 is useless. My wife could care less about a 16 or an 18 since she now has a 30 and is a much faster descender than me.

[Tony T]

The 12-27 and 12-30 been out a year or so. 11-27 is new to me.

I thought that the 12-29 was the highest. It was when the 11-27 was announced.

[oldpotatoe]

I thought that the 12-29 was the highest. It was when the 11-27 was announced.

12-30 for 10s, 12-29 for 11s....11-27 is 11s, don't think there is a 11-27 10s. 11-25.

[Tony T]

12-30 for 10s, 12-29 for 11s....11-27 is 11s, don't think there is a 11-27 10s. 11-25.

Ah! That makes sense, thanks.

[Bob Ross]

I was never that great at Maths but the last thing I am thinking about when I am out riding is how many teeth there are on the rear cog when I hit a sweet spot.
Perhaps I should pay more attention...

You and me both!

I gotta admit, these "I gotta have the n-tooth cog!" pleas remind me of the "I hate compact chainrings because you gotta shift up three simes in the back when you shift down in front" complaints: They're both based on some pre-existing notion of what riding a bicycle is supposed to feel like.

iow, the only people who miss the n-tooth cog (or who feel the need to downshift 3x when upshifting in front) are folks who rode a lot on some other bike that had an n-tooth cog (or a standard 53/39 chainring).

But if you never had an n-tooth cog -- or, like us I guess, never paid much attention to how many teeth those middle cogs had -- you rarely find yourself thinking "ack, this one's too small, that one's too big, goddammit where's my Goldilocks combination?!?!" You just ride.

But yeah, I'm willing to believe I could pay more attention to those things.


And fwiw, I am so looking forward to an 11-27 from Campy! I can almost guarantee my next bike will sport one...so I hope they become common soon.

[donevwil]

You and me both!

I gotta admit, these "I gotta have the n-tooth cog!" pleas remind me of the "I hate compact chainrings because you gotta shift up three simes in the back when you shift down in front" complaints: They're both based on some pre-existing notion of what riding a bicycle is supposed to feel like.

iow, the only people who miss the n-tooth cog (or who feel the need to downshift 3x when upshifting in front) are folks who rode a lot on some other bike that had an n-tooth cog (or a standard 53/39 chainring).

But if you never had an n-tooth cog -- or, like us I guess, never paid much attention to how many teeth those middle cogs had -- you rarely find yourself thinking "ack, this one's too small, that one's too big, goddammit where's my Goldilocks combination?!?!" You just ride.

But yeah, I'm willing to believe I could pay more attention to those things.


And fwiw, I am so looking forward to an 11-27 from Campy! I can almost guarantee my next bike will sport one...so I hope they become common soon.

Proof that ignorance is bliss.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Simply discerning what is important and what is just pedantry.

I agree with Bob and I am thinking the same.. let that price come down a bit and I'm in..

I bet it's like Vodka tasting.. if you put these guys on bikes with diff combinations would not be able to tell without looking down. I prefer to keep my gaze on the road ahead.

[Ralph]

It depends on where and how you ride. I ride a lot (4-5 times a week) with 5-6 guys in flat to slightly rolling hills. Probably 3/4 of each 35-45 mile ride, we're going about as hard as we can in a pace line taking turns pulling, or strongest 2-3 doing most of the work toward the end of a ride. Most of this is big ring riding.....usually 52 for me, some guys use a 53. I prefer to have most used cogs with a decent chainline. 13-26 10 speed is my favorite Campy cassette. And believe me.....we spend a lot of time in the 19-18-17-16-15-and sometime 14 cog (if I get a tail wind). I rarely use a 52X13 unless I get a tail wind, and going over about 28-29. If I didn't have that 16, it might get me dropped. Actually the 18 is useful also. Slight uphill or headwind, and that's my gear. We're old guys, but we ride hard.

When I load up and head to NC mountains, I don't mind cog gaps, sometimes it's better to have a two teeth gap. It all depends on where you ride. And yes.....I know exactly the gear inches of all my gear combinations, which ones are redundant etc, on all my various cassettes. Why not....it's 6th grade math. I've got a 12-30 for use in steep hilly terrain. Works good there, without an 18 or 16. Like Donevwill above says.....I agree the 13-29 is tough to beat when you need a big rear cog. It has the 16. BTW.....The new Centaur 10's 12-30 has 3 largest cogs on a carrier. it's lighter than a all loose cog 13-26.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Well I must be a soppy romantic. I prefere to set my head in a different place. I ride by the seat of my pants not by the numbers. But I ride a very varied course and that is why I am interested in anyones actual experiences with the 11-27. Seems not to be many of them out in the wild yet so Bob and I may wi d hp being the guinea pigs.

[bluesea]

I bet it's like Vodka tasting.. if you put these guys on bikes with diff combinations would not be able to tell without looking down. I prefer to keep my gaze on the road ahead.



Oh okay, blind test is truth.

[fuzzalow]

The only cog I fret about is the one that isn't there when the Campy downshift lever doesn't click anymore.

[christian]

Giving up a 16 to get a 11 is beyond stupid. The only reason to move to 11 speeds is to get the 18 too. Yum. Small steps in the middle cogs make for really comfortable riding in packs or pacelines.

For 50-80 feet per mile ascent riding (i.e. Most of the northeast), 53-39 with a 13-26 10sp is still the best gearing I've found for me.

[GuyGadois]

Yep, I got one I am building on my new to me Firefly bike now. I am matching it with the new-ish 36-52. On paper I like the gear ratios.

Bought the cluster from Velomine.

GG
Beyond Stupid
Gear Challenged
Ignorant

[UKBROOKLYN]

Giving up a 16 to get a 11 is beyond stupid.

Sir, if you cannot be civil then please keep you opinions to yourself.
The way one rides and the combinations one uses are unique to who one is and where one rides.
Please do not assume that all persons worship at the 16t cog. And moderate your comments to remain in line with cordiality.

[happycampyer]

Giving up a 16 to get a 11 is beyond stupid. The only reason to move to 11 speeds is to get the 18 too. Yum. Small steps in the middle cogs make for really comfortable riding in packs or pacelines.

For 50-80 feet per mile ascent riding (i.e. Most of the northeast), 53-39 with a 13-26 10sp is still the best gearing I've found for me.
Well, if you didn't fill your steel bike with lead shot, perhaps you would actually like an 11t sprocket. :)

[donevwil]

Sir, if you cannot be civil then please keep you opinions to yourself.

?

[oldpotatoe]

Giving up a 16 to get a 11 is beyond stupid. The only reason to move to 11 speeds is to get the 18 too. Yum. Small steps in the middle cogs make for really comfortable riding in packs or pacelines.

For 50-80 feet per mile ascent riding (i.e. Most of the northeast), 53-39 with a 13-26 10sp is still the best gearing I've found for me.

I agree that the 16 and 18 are way useful..For what it's worth, I'd trade my 12-27 11s Chorus for a like condition(5 rides, about 8 hours, about 130 miles or so)12-25 in an instant to get the 18t but the 'like condition' part worries me..."yep, hardly used", then find the 16t is worn out....

[christian]

Sir, if you cannot be civil then please keep you opinions to yourself.
The way one rides and the combinations one uses are unique to who one is and where one rides.

Right-o. To be clear, I didn't mean buying one, I meant making one. An 11-27 is a cassette which is basically pointless. The only thing it apparently accomplishes is providing an 11t to riders who don't think they can get by with a 12t. A 120-inch gear simply isn't particularly useful for amateur riders not racing a flat stage... and pros don't typically need a 27. (And don't run a compact anyway.)

That said, I know who you are and I know where you ride. You bought a seatpost from me once. The fact is, if you've got huge 30-second power, you can turn a 50-12 at something like 36-39 mph on the flat. Adding an 11 means you can extend that sprint to, um, 39-42 miles per hour. I don't know many local riders who are regularly sprinting in excess of 40 miles per hour (regardless of how competitive the run-in to the Runcible parking is.) I'd suggest you'll spend less than 1% of your riding time in the 50-11. And only downhill, where you might as well tuck.

As a trade-off, in the very middle gears of B/B+ riding - right around 18-20 mph at 90rpm, you have a 13.3% step between the 15t and a 17t cog. That's twice the size of the step between a 13-14 and a 14-15 and is a huge leap from the ideal logarithmic progression of gearing. That basically means you risk spinning faster or slower than you prefer, right at your cruising speed. Now, for you, personally, this may not matter. Perhaps you have great flexibility with regard to cadence. But for the vast majority of riders, again, save those ProTour riders on a flat stage, giving up a gear in the range they spend 70% of their time to gain a gear in which they spend 1% of their time, seems like a very very poor compromise. And, in addition, the wear on cassette cogs in the main wear part of the cassette is now distributed over two cogs rather than three, leading to premature wear.

Ok, so maybe not "beyond stupid," but "really pretty stupid"? ;)

[zap]

Right-o. To be clear, I didn't mean buying one, I meant making one. An 11-27 is a cassette which is basically pointless. The only thing it apparently accomplishes is providing an 11t to riders who don't think they can get by with a 12t. A 120-inch gear simply isn't particularly useful for amateur riders not racing a flat stage... and pros don't typically need a 27. (And don't run a compact anyway.)



hmmmm, as you posted, much depends on where, how and with whom you ride.

Here in Merryland, we have rides that consist of 18-20% or more grades then go down in the valley and if there is a tailwind on the flats…..you get the idea. Then the next day we might head east of D.C. where it's flat(er) but not wanting to swap out the cassette……..

Pro's have been known to use compacts and/or something larger on the back.

[UKBROOKLYN]

Explanation accepted.
Actually I think this is the best answer so far.
BTW it will be a while before I get my speed bursts going again...
I do find myself riding 50 12 quite a bit when cruising along in a pace line.
I sometimes like a slower cadence when at top speed. The great take away from this thread for me is that I will be paying more attention to which cogs I am in at various common riding spots. I am a fanatic at keeping my bike clean and there is little discernible difference in the wear of my cassette across the range, certainly they are all as clean as each other and after a long ride also all as dirty.
Except sometimes the 27 .. When that one is cleaner it just means I have been avoiding huge hills that day.

Thanks everyone for the input.

[christian]

hmmmm, as you posted, much depends on where, how and with whom you ride.

Here in Merryland, we have rides that consist of 18-20% or more grades then go down in the valley and if there is a tailwind on the flats…..you get the idea.I'm not suggesting this is not possible, but it is the rare rider who needs a 34-27 on Route 77 or around Prettyboy Reservoir AND who can spin out a 50-12 on the flats. I suppose if you're a really powerful big bloke - 370w threshold, 1400w sprint, 240-lb linebacker - then it's a useful cassette for usual riding, but I think that's a rare case.

I see an 11-27 as a specialty cassette for _alpine_ climbs. And then, for most mortals, a 13-29 or 12-30 would be better. I descended the Grossglockner Hochalpstrasse and the East Side of the Fedaia at >100 kph with a 50-34 and a 12-27. I wasn't pedalling the 50-12...

Then the next day we might head east of D.C. where it's flat(er) but not wanting to swap out the cassette……..You, sir, need a crombie tool! :) I raced a 12-hr road bike race in Davidsonville in October. Flat out there, to be sure.

[druptight]

I just did some cassette mating yesterday of some Ultegra 9 speed cassettes to make my 12-27 into a 13-27 so that I could gain the 16. It's my cruising gear on my mostly flat commute and the cadence jumps from 15-17 drive me crazy.

[christian]

It's my cruising gear on my mostly flat commute and the cadence jumps from 15-17 drive me crazy.Hey, princess, that's my pea! Haha, we can hang!

[fiamme red]

I do find myself riding 50 12 quite a bit when cruising along in a pace line. I sometimes like a slower cadence when at top speed.Back when I did club rides, it was much more usual to see the other riders in a paceline cruising at 18-21 mph in their 34/12, not 50/12.

[Bostic]

I live in Silicon Valley and most of my riding is solo or with my wife on our tandem. I like having the 11t cog for long descents. Everyone tells me to spin faster and I can hold 120 cadence for a bit but my left knee aches something awful after not very long. I also like the 50 or 52x11 when descending Mt. Rose in either direction especially after slugging up it in Reno Summer weather.

I do have a 12-23 10 speed Ultegra Cassette that I had bought as an experiment for my old commute of 18 miles, 500'. Shortly after I bought it I switched jobs and now have an 8 minute commute. As an experiment I will mount it on my bike with the triple 52/39/30 and report back in a few weeks as to how much I love or don't notice having the 16 and 18 tooth cogs. For the climbs around me, 30x23 is a fraction easier than a 34x26 which I normally run for a low on my bike with the compact crank.