2014/15 Shimano 5800 105 [Archive]

mvrider

03-30-2014, 10:14 PM

timto

03-30-2014, 10:15 PM

loving the news about hydro with mechanical shifting. YES!

10-4

03-30-2014, 10:38 PM

Looks like Embro has updated with new pics as well.

dk2ck

03-30-2014, 10:42 PM

Man, bike groupsets are so good right now. I probably would have been very comfortable using 10-speed 105 forever, but being able to get Ultegra/Dura Ace 11-speed performance at the price of 105 sounds amazing.

ARL002

03-30-2014, 11:07 PM

The shifters look a lot nicer now. much more similar to the current DA9000 and Ultegra 6800 shifters.

Disc brakes on the 105 is an intriguing direction. will be interesting to see if they offer disc on all the lines.

ultraman6970

03-31-2014, 01:04 AM

What campagnolo will come with now...

hummus_aquinas

03-31-2014, 01:34 AM

85th anniversary group

WickedWheels

03-31-2014, 06:29 AM

They are wrong about 105 Di2. It's coming...

David Tollefson

03-31-2014, 06:59 AM

2nd on the "very cool" for 105 hydro brake/mech shifting. Best of both worlds. Will definitely facilitate my move to 11-speed (heck, I just put a 10 onto one of my builds for the first time in 2013!).

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 07:07 AM

No pictures of the mech + hydro shifters, though :-(

Edit: found a photo. The BikeRadar site got pulled, but the gallery was still up:
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gallery/article/shimano-combines-hydraulic-disc-braking-with-mechanical-shifting-40535/3/

It looks amazingly svelte, compared to SRAM.

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/news/2014/03/27/1395917308229-vzeioj3b9n9t-800-75.jpg

Pre-production:
http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/news/2014/03/26/1395920468634-11ugypqz79hsw-800-75.jpg

Once again, shimano took their time, looked at the 'market' regardless of how silly it sometimes seems, designed well and produced something that looks refined and probably will work great..unlike the other 's' maker who rushes some gadget to market, uses the rider as the product tester and fawns over light weight, and then back strokes on why it doesn't work...

shimano did the same with 10s MTB, 11s road and now 11s/wet brakes...

No doubt there will be a 105 level Di2...I wonder how long before you see XTR Di2, 11s, 2bys...the 1by11s ship has sailed.

WickedWheels

03-31-2014, 07:11 AM

XTR Di2 is coming next year also. So is XTR 1x11.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 07:28 AM

XTR Di2 is coming next year also. So is XTR 1x11.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

No surprise XTR Di2...I guess 1by makes some sense since it'll be 11s already...at least a lot of the MTB wheelsouttaboxes, like Fulcrum and Mavic are already shimano 11s compatible..

thirdgenbird

03-31-2014, 07:32 AM

The grainy pictures I saw made it look like xtr would be available in 3x11, 2x11, and 1x11. It sounds like the 2x and 1x crankmay be the same arms with different ring(s).

Back on topic, I'm actually a little surprised to see mechanical wet discs. As mentioned, they did a fine job with them. Sram has reason to worry.

Campagnolo says they are working on discs. Should be interesting.

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 07:35 AM

thirdgenbird

03-31-2014, 07:42 AM

That's my gut feeling too.

I expect they are working toe get the existing formula hardware into an existing lever body. I'm guessing campy tries to keep identical hood shapes.

I know it is extremely unlikely, but a campy/formula competitor to the hyrd would be entertaining for mechanical groups.

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 07:53 AM

That's my gut feeling too.

I expect they are working to get the existing formula hardware into an existing lever body. I'm guessing campy tries to keep identical hood shapes.

I know it is extremely unlikely, but a campy/formula competitor to the hyrd would be entertaining for mechanical groups.

Yep, regardless of how ya feel about road/hydro..it's coming...lotsa room in the top of Campagnolo mechanical ERGO levers too...

I find it fascinating that shimano has choosen to not level-ize the Di2 and mechanical wet disc levers...not ultegra or 105..use with any 11s stuff, whether Di2 or mechanical so if ya want to 'upgrade' to wet discs and have 9000/6800, just get the levers, hubs, discs/rotors..and of course a disc compatible frame and fork...............gonna see a lot of this in 2014 cross season...sram languishes..I'm sure shimano wants to take that somewhat small segment, away...

phcollard

03-31-2014, 07:58 AM

Google Cache to the rescue if you want more details.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cache%3Ahttp://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/shimano-105-5800-2014-15-groupset-first-look-40450/

AngryScientist

03-31-2014, 08:25 AM

this is great news. my geekhouse will be due for a refresh after this season. while the microshift stuff works adequately, moving to a mix of 11-speed shimano is definitely in the cards. would go campy, but love the 11-32 for the dirt road adventure bike. having lower cost chain/cassette options is awesome.

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 10:01 AM

Fatty

03-31-2014, 10:37 AM

Read more hear,

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/03/31/shimanos-all-new-11-speed-105-5800-group-plus-new-mechanical-hydraulic-road-disc-brakes/#more-75679

I am likeing the 52/36 ring option, combine with the 11/32 cassette and climb anything and never run out of gear.

polyhistoric

03-31-2014, 10:39 AM

This is announced just as I finalize my new Force 22 build with mechanical TRP disc brakes.:mad:

Saving grace is that there are no cross rings for the cranks (yet).

bluesea

03-31-2014, 10:47 AM

Will Veloce mid cage work with 32t?

dk2ck

03-31-2014, 01:27 PM

I wonder if they'll make a 5800 triple crank...

RedRider

03-31-2014, 01:32 PM

I wonder if they'll make a 5800 triple crank...

I doubt it. New product technology is putting more on the cassette and less on the crankset. Talking 1X11 for cross.

sg8357

03-31-2014, 02:30 PM

I wonder if they'll make a 5800 triple crank...

Alternative to a triple.

Sugino Compact+ 11 speed version, lots of ring options,example 48/32 or 46/30

http://www.alexscycle.com/cranks/road-1-2-3-4-5-6/sugino-ox901d-compact-plus-11spd.html

Black or Silver, for carbon and steel bike compatibility.

46/30 with the 11/32 cassette, official old guy gearing.\
44/28 for Simplex Tourist gearing is possible.

Ed-B

03-31-2014, 02:30 PM

I'm trying to catch up here... Is the new standard width for road rear hubs going to be 135mm now? Or is that just happening for disc brake setups?

RedRider

03-31-2014, 02:41 PM

Alternative to a triple.

Sugino Compact+ 11 speed version, lots of ring options,example 48/32 or 46/30

http://www.alexscycle.com/cranks/road-1-2-3-4-5-6/sugino-ox901d-compact-plus-11spd.html

Black or Silver, for carbon and steel bike compatibility.

46/30 with the 11/32 cassette, official old guy gearing.\
44/28 for Simplex Tourist gearing is possible.

There are a gazzillion options that have made the triple obsolete.

dk2ck

03-31-2014, 02:46 PM

I doubt it. New product technology is putting more on the cassette and less on the crankset. Talking 1X11 for cross.

Yeah, I sort of figured the triple was being phased out. I'm on a compact right now and I like it a lot, I am considering moving to a mid-compact crank and a cassette with a wider range.

I was asking about the triple because a friend of mine is very partial to hers for her bike and was looking to upgrade her groupset sometime in the near future. 11-speed 105 would be great for her bike, but I imagine she will be disappointed about a lack of a triple crank. I do agree that similar gearing could be reached with a compact double of some sort, but it is her bike and her preferences outweigh mine in this situation. Hopefully Shimano surprises us!

GregL

03-31-2014, 03:07 PM

There are a gazzillion options that have made the triple obsolete.
Maybe a smaller niche, but definitely not obsolete. True loaded touring and tandems are well served by triples.

- Greg

eBAUMANN

03-31-2014, 03:16 PM

now they just need to make a clutch rd that works with road levers�

apparently the 1x11 drivetrain for cx is still a small segment�but its the only thing keeping sram in my life...

RedRider

03-31-2014, 03:18 PM

Maybe a smaller niche, but definitely not obsolete. True loaded touring and tandems are well served by triples.

- Greg

I'll give you those two exceptions... barely.

krhea

03-31-2014, 03:56 PM

Use shimano 11s 11-32, Athena long cage rear der.....all else Campagnolo and.......bob's yer uncle.

Like this idea. Can you be a bit more specific for those of us who aren't 'familiar" with this type set-up? Athena long cage 11 with what Ergos, any Campy 11s?
This could be my new tandem set-up.

Thanks

bluesea

03-31-2014, 03:57 PM

now they just need to make a clutch rd that works with road levers�

apparently the 1x11 drivetrain for cx is still a small segment�but its the only thing keeping sram in my life...

There's no doubt in my mind Shimano is working on that -- mountain first would make sense though.

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 04:36 PM

I'll give you those two exceptions... barely.

Well, a 30t or 28 or 26t..and with a 32/34/36 rear, is still a lower gear.

34/32 doesn't work for everybody.

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 04:37 PM

Like this idea. Can you be a bit more specific for those of us who aren't 'familiar" with this type set-up? Athena long cage 11 with what Ergos, any Campy 11s?
This could be my new tandem set-up.

Thanks

Athena 11s rear der, long cage with any Campagnolo 11s(or q0s altho they make long cage Centaur and Veloce) ERGO, power shift or Ultra shift and then a 11s cogset-

thirdgenbird

03-31-2014, 05:09 PM

Athena 11s rear der, long cage with any Campagnolo 11s(or q0s altho they make long cage Centaur and Veloce) ERGO, power shift or Ultra shift and then a 11s cogset-

Potato, I think I've heard you say it before, will a c10 ergo and rd work ok with a shimano 9 cassette?

krhea

03-31-2014, 05:32 PM

Athena 11s rear der, long cage with any Campagnolo 11s(or q0s altho they make long cage Centaur and Veloce) ERGO, power shift or Ultra shift and then a 11s cogset-

Thanks. Is this a pretty problem free set-up? No constant adjustments needed to make it work?

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 05:47 PM

I wonder if they'll make a 5800 triple crank...

Doubt it. Longish cage, compact and big cogset....

oldpotatoe

03-31-2014, 05:49 PM

Potato, I think I've heard you say it before, will a c10 ergo and rd work ok with a shimano 9 cassette?

Works better than Campag 10s and shimano 10s....since center to center cog differences are less with Campag 10s and shimano 9s than Campag 10s and shimano 10s

velotrack

04-01-2014, 01:20 AM

This looks super great. Likely a step toward what I'd like to purchase for a disc cross bike, albeit with some different chainrings.

zzy

04-01-2014, 01:43 AM

With all the new wide cassette options for 11sp, the road triple may well be dead. 11-32 becoming a standard road cassette gives a nearly 1:1 bailout which is about as low as you'll want to go without panniers.

If you really want lower gearing, a Deore triple crank with a 48 big ring is probably your best bet.

Salsa_Lover

04-01-2014, 03:40 AM

I'll give you those two exceptions... barely.

Add commuters to that list

I setup mine with a compact 50/34 was was simply not good, 50 too big and 34 too small, you are allways crossed with that gearing on a normally 20-30 Kmh range for the city commuting,
the 38, ( 39 for Campagnolo ) or even 42 hits the sweet spot (middle of the cassette ) for city commuting, and its good to have a big one like a 48 or 50 for fast flats, and a small one like a 30 or 28 for hills

my Commuter is on Campagnolo Racing Triple 50/39/28 wih a 13-29 cassette and takes me anywhere I want to go..... 95% of the time on the 39

BTM I am a standard 53/39 12-27 rider on my road bike and I climb lots of hills

oldpotatoe

04-01-2014, 06:25 AM

Thanks. Is this a pretty problem free set-up? No constant adjustments needed to make it work?

No..like any Campagnolo ERGO/rear der set up.

baccilus

09-03-2014, 01:54 AM

This groupset seems to be out of stock at most online stores, except merlincycles. Are they genuine? they are also providing it for the best price.

oldpotatoe

09-03-2014, 06:27 AM

Like this idea. Can you be a bit more specific for those of us who aren't 'familiar" with this type set-up? Athena long cage 11 with what Ergos, any Campy 11s?
This could be my new tandem set-up.

Thanks

Since it's an 11s cogset, yep, any Campagnolo 11s ERGO, the long cage, the shimano 11-32, any 11s chain.

chiasticon

09-03-2014, 07:22 AM

This groupset seems to be out of stock at most online stores, except merlincycles. Are they genuine? they are also providing it for the best price.
they are genuine. i've had a few friends purchase groupsets from merlin and i've ordered a few things from there. no issues.

stien

09-03-2014, 08:33 AM

Don't forget Merlin has a vat charge.

josephr

09-03-2014, 08:36 AM

they are genuine. i've had a few friends purchase groupsets from merlin and i've ordered a few things from there. no issues.

are you talking the 5800 groupset or the RS685 shifter/brake combo? The 685s aren't to be released for aftermarket until late October from what I understand. I just wish I could find a place to pre-order from!

FastforaSlowGuy

09-03-2014, 10:14 AM

Don't forget Merlin has a vat charge.

I don't believe that applies to orders placed from and shipped to the US.

rwerkudara

09-03-2014, 10:40 AM

I don't believe that applies to orders placed from and shipped to the US.

A friend ordered a 6800 group from Merlin (shipped to NY address) and he wasn't hit with any fees. It was a little more expensive than Ribble, but the fast shipping (and no fees) made up for it.

beeatnik

09-03-2014, 12:46 PM

A friend ordered a 6800 group from Merlin (shipped to NY address) and he wasn't hit with any fees. It was a little more expensive than Ribble, but the fast shipping (and no fees) made up for it.

Shimano components from Merlin don't seem to be exclusively OEM. The last few 9000/6800/5800 items I've ordered from them all arrived in boxes.

rwerkudara

09-03-2014, 01:21 PM

Shimano components from Merlin don't seem to be exclusively OEM. The last few 9000/6800/5800 items I've ordered from them all arrived in boxes.

Good point. I was surprised when it arrived in boxes. To some that may be another plus.

stien

09-03-2014, 01:21 PM

I don't believe that applies to orders placed from and shipped to the US.

Happened to me fwiw.

rnhood

09-03-2014, 02:00 PM

The UK stores like Merlin have very good prices right now, and with a strong dollar they will get even better. This appears to be as good at time as any to buy.

palincss

09-03-2014, 04:03 PM

No doubt there will be a 105 level Di2...I wonder how long before you see XTR Di2, 11s, 2bys...the 1by11s ship has sailed.

Do you mean it's brief moment of opportunity has passed by, or do you mean its time has come and resistance to it is futile? I've seen it used both ways, but I think here you mean it as "missed the boat". If so, why? Most of the arguments in favor of 1 by X -- simplicity of shift pattern, less weight, ease of operation (I've seen all these mentioned) -- still remain regardless of whether the shift is electric or mechanical.

oldpotatoe

09-04-2014, 08:00 AM

Do you mean it's brief moment of opportunity has passed by, or do you mean its time has come and resistance to it is futile? I've seen it used both ways, but I think here you mean it as "missed the boat". If so, why? Most of the arguments in favor of 1 by X -- simplicity of shift pattern, less weight, ease of operation (I've seen all these mentioned) -- still remain regardless of whether the shift is electric or mechanical.

XTR di2 has shown that a fder can be included, to facilitate a more versitile rear cogset(higher high gear, lower low gear with cogs closer together) w/o any of the disadvantages you mention, when applied to shimano. Even mechanical XTR/XT/SLX+ Front ders are not heavy, very reliable and make for a useful MTB. Without $400 cogsets, unique rear hubs or crank sets. I doubt shimano will ever do a 1by.

I think scram should stay outta the fder business.

hida yanra

09-04-2014, 10:49 AM

I doubt shimano will ever do a 1by.

So, I love you and think you are spot-on most of the time... but... (http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbikecom/bikes-gear/first-look-shimano-xtr-goes-11-speed)

I think scram should stay outta the fder business.
Ain't that the gospel truth? Just sold the last bits of roadie-sram out of my spares bin last night- and I was happy to see it go.

oldpotatoe

09-04-2014, 10:54 AM

So, I love you and think you are spot-on most of the time... but... (http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbikecom/bikes-gear/first-look-shimano-xtr-goes-11-speed)

Ain't that the gospel truth? Just sold the last bits of roadie-sram out of my spares bin last night- and I was happy to see it go.

Been wrong before. I still question why shimano 1by when their front ders and now 'smart' Di2 front der, works so well.

shovelhd

09-04-2014, 11:33 AM

Well I bet there are enough dirt races where a 36t front and an 11-40 rear is enough gear. I also found it interesting that the chainring is hooked, as if it is worn out already.

oldpotatoe

09-04-2014, 12:41 PM

Well I bet there are enough dirt races where a 36t front and an 11-40 rear is enough gear. I also found it interesting that the chainring is hooked, as if it is worn out already.

Even with 11s, some pretty mongo, 4 tooth gaps between some of the cogset tho.

Ken C

09-04-2014, 01:07 PM

I don't believe that applies to orders placed from and shipped to the US.

That is correct, VAT should not be charged on goods shipped from the UK to the US.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/cross-border/index_en.htm

Selling

If you sell goods to customers outside the EU, you do not charge VAT, though you may still deduct the VAT you yourself have paid on your related expenses (goods/services bought in specifically to make those sales).

There are even refund provisions in most EU countries for travelers who purchase goods to take home outside the EU. The refund typically does not apply to services, restaurants, etc and the goods usually must go through customs. There are minimum currency thresholds frequently.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/refund/index_en.htm

Stein in your case, you were incorrectly charged VAT.