OT: Help me work this out (Car buying advice)

[Nooch]

Seeking some general advice from the wisdom of the forum.. This may be a long story with simple answer..

I currently have a '99 Honda CR-V, 172k miles on the clock. I bought it for less than a 105 equipped caad10 back in December, 2012. The car has been dead reliable after a tune-up, some tires, and some little maintenance items I've handled on my own (bad tie-rod, some hoses here and there, oil pan gasket.)

Today I dropped half of what I spent on the car doing the Timing Belt and an engine mount. They couldn't do the water pump because the bolts were seized, and the option was to try and force it and risk breaking the bolts, resulting in more labor to drill out, retap, etc, or leave it as is. No leaks, so I rolled the dice and said to pass on it.

Now I've got it in the back of my head that the water pump could conceivably go at any time, whether or not that's a rational thought.. It was likely last replaced around 100k miles, when the original timing belt was done.

My Step-Father has a 2013 Subaru Impreza 5-door CVT (ugh) that he bought as a commuter so he didn't put mileage on his Outback. However, he's been out on sick leave with a shoulder injury, and may be retiring sooner rather than later (fire department). His payments on it are sub $300/mo, and the offer is out there from my mother to take over the payments on it. It's fully loaded, leather, sunroof, all the goodies.

Bits and pieces of information that are of note in making this decision:

My wife and I are expecting our second daughter within the next 9 days.
I work a second job that to date has been directed into savings so that we're comfortable during her sick leave and summer vacation (she's in education). It's waiting tables, so it's not necessarily the most consistent money, but historically has been good for more than the payment would be for the Impreza.
The CR-V pre-dates LATCH, and it's more of a headache than it seems to move the car seats from my wife's Odyssey to my CR-V. I also haven't tried to see how the two of them fit back there, either..
My wife hates driving my CR-V, but hates spending money more (in the event that one of us had the kids while the other was out..)

Should I consider the Impreza and set the CR-V out to pasture, even though, at the moment, there's nothing wrong with it? Should I drive the CR-V until it dies and then figure out a solution when I need to? I could always lease something cheap just to get around, at the end of the day..

[45K10]

IMO, Nothing eats up savings and money more than car payments.

My advice, keep the CRV but I would advise getting the water pump replaced before it goes completely.

Quit the second job, if you can, and spend time with your wife and baby.

You will be much happier than working a second job so you can pay for the Subaru.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!

[Nooch]

IMO, Nothing eats up savings and money more than car payments.

My advice, keep the CRV but I would advise getting the water pump replaced before it goes completely.

Quit the second job, if you can, and spend time with your wife and baby.

You will be much happier than working a second job so you can pay for the Subaru.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!

Unfortunately if the water pump was getting done, it was getting done today, while all the belts were off and it was accessible. The fact that the bolts were seized was an problem I hadn't anticipated when I decided to do it this week.. But my logic is that if the water pump is good for 100k miles before getting done, then I should have at least another 30k miles out of it. So I'm not too concerned about it.

I'll keep the second job -- I've more or less left the third job already ;) (second job is only two nights/9-10 hours a week.)

But I suppose I'm with you on the 'nothing eating up savings like a car payment' front..

[jmoore]

I hate car payments, so I say drive the CRV until it gives up the ghost.

How much was it to drill out the bolts and redo the water pump? Prob less than a few months payment on the Subi

[carpediemracing]

Having had a child recently I can sort of relate to your quandary.

My gut instincts:
- you want cars you can rely on. It's stressful enough if something happens and you need to get somewhere with the kid, it's worse if the car decides it doesn't want to go.
- is the wife working? I ask because who is looking after the kid while you're out working?
- I absolutely treasured the time I could spend with the little one, regardless of the seemingly mundane stuff I did, like change diapers or feed him or whatever. In fact I still do and Junior is now 2 years old. Not sure if having the newer car but working for it would be overall better than not working but having a stressor type car.
- Once you get used to moving the car seat back and forth it's pretty straight forward. It's sort of like QR skewers - tricky at first, automatic after a bit. Having said that a newer car will (probably) have better crash resistance etc. I move a car seat between two cars regularly since I switch cars at least once a week right now. I leave Junior in the seat if I have him (I usually do), it's not terrible.

So I have no advice, just thoughts.

[Pete Mckeon]

Put the amount not spent for a car payment monthly in CAR ACCOUNT savings .


Moving the seat every time you will get use to, unless you do it many times a day.

all past cars we had when kids were young needed manual moving - - they even need it today if my wife drives the pilot and then I drive it. - - as well as readjusting mirrors


Our son in law had over 240K on his old one - -- until he found something he liked better a few years later:no:

[Nooch]

I hate car payments, so I say drive the CRV until it gives up the ghost.

How much was it to drill out the bolts and redo the water pump? Prob less than a few months payment on the Subi

Problem was the unknown -- they could have muscled it and it could have been fine, but it also could have gone sour and added up to $500 more in labor -- they'd have had to pull the engine if that happened, they said, at which point I'd be paying more than I paid for the car..

Having had a child recently I can sort of relate to your quandary.

My gut instincts:
- you want cars you can rely on. It's stressful enough if something happens and you need to get somewhere with the kid, it's worse if the car decides it doesn't want to go.
- is the wife working? I ask because who is looking after the kid while you're out working?
- I absolutely treasured the time I could spend with the little one, regardless of the seemingly mundane stuff I did, like change diapers or feed him or whatever. In fact I still do and Junior is now 2 years old. Not sure if having the newer car but working for it would be overall better than not working but having a stressor type car.
- Once you get used to moving the car seat back and forth it's pretty straight forward. It's sort of like QR skewers - tricky at first, automatic after a bit. Having said that a newer car will (probably) have better crash resistance etc. I move a car seat between two cars regularly since I switch cars at least once a week right now. I leave Junior in the seat if I have him (I usually do), it's not terrible.

So I have no advice, just thoughts.

I love our car seats because they have a wicked quick latch connector -- you snap it in and push down on the seats and they retract back until firm -- no fuss, no muss.. it's not a problem moving them between latch equipped cars -- takes less than three minutes, it's just moving them into a car that you have to fuss with the seat belt..

My wife works -- she's currently a paraprofessional in a high school until a teaching position (hopefully) turns up. Crappy pay, but exposure in a district. My mother-in-law watches the baby -- retired NYPD homicide detective :)

[tiretrax]

It's probably too late now, but I'd replace the water pump. I have a car with 237k, and I have done all that work each 100k. I wouldn't do one without the other.

[4Rings6Stars]

something else to consider... try putting a car seat in the Impreza.

I am not sure how tall you and the Mrs. are, but in my brother's (2006) Impreza, they had to slide their front seats up in order to fit car seats in the back (one on each side). Not a big deal since my family maxes out at 5'9", but could be if you are taller than that. When the babies were little and so where the car seats, it didn't matter that much. but now that they are in toddler seats it's a complete no-go unless you like hugging the steering wheel while driving.

Unless there is substantially more leg room in the new model, I would not consider an Impreza as a family vehicle...

[Nooch]

something else to consider... try putting a car seat in the Impreza.

I am not sure how tall you and the Mrs. are, but in my brother's (2006) Impreza, they had to slide their front seats up in order to fit car seats in the back (one on each side). Not a big deal since my family maxes out at 5'9", but could be if you are taller than that. When the babies were little and so where the car seats, it didn't matter that much. but now that they are in toddler seats it's a complete no-go unless you like hugging the steering wheel while driving.

Unless there is substantially more leg room in the new model, I would not consider an Impreza as a family vehicle...

We're both 5'6" :) 52cm top tube ;)

[christian]

Stick w the CR-V.

[vqdriver]

moving car seats is a PITA. even with latch, it gets old quick. without latch it gets really old really really quick. do it once in a baking hot car and you won't want to do it ever again. plus when i'm rushed i wonder if i've done as well as i could have.

in regards to the car, i can't really help other than to say that when my car ever gave me problems, it never ever once did so at a convenient time or safe place. but ultimately, finances will dictate this.

[parris]

maybe see if your parents would sell you the outback vs the other car?
Other than that drive the crv into the ground.

[Nooch]

It's probably too late now, but I'd replace the water pump. I have a car with 237k, and I have done all that work each 100k. I wouldn't do one without the other.

It is -- and I appreciate it, I'm of the same mindset, BUT: even if it only lasts until 200k miles (that would be an assumption of failure every 100k miles), that's still 28k miles away. I put about 5k miles on the car a year, if that -- it's a back up, drive to work (3 miles) when I don't feel like riding, run around if the wife has the primary vehicle. Based on that little mileage and all things being equal, I could conceivably get 5 more years out of the car without running the risk of screwing everything up today..

Or at least, that's how I justified it today..

(sidenote: my wife's cousin is a mechanic and was going to do this labor, but is out of commission having his knees replaced -- both of them. I suppose down the line it's always a possibility to run through this again, at the cost of a six pack, instead of Honda doing it.)

Sticking with the CR-V. It's the best move. And I'll push the waterpump to a corner of my mind reserved for work projects I don't feel like dealing with ;)

[gasman]

I'd drive the CRV till it croaks-which may be quite a while.

[vqdriver]

is it possible to proactively spray some deep creep on those frozen bolts occasionally so that it's working away for the next year or so before you approach this again?

[christian]

BTW, you'll need two sets of car seats. Just no way around this. Ask me how I know.

[Saint Vitus]

^ yeah, just buy 2 more seats instead of a car...

[weisan]

new(er) car = problem-free (myth)

[biker72]

I'd drive the CRV till it croaks-which may be quite a while.

+1
The CRV could easily go another 25k.

[Liv2RideHard]

Keep the Honda man. It isn't worth a car payment. Just add up how much all the diapers are going to be costing you here very shortly.

Car payments suck. The crux of most Americans. Save that car payment in an envelope or separate account until you can buy your next vehicle cash. A lease is even worse.

Buy additional car seats. Leave them in the vehicles. This way you aren't moving seats around all the time and fussing with anchors.

[AngryScientist]

getting ride of the VW is coming back to haunt you on this one eh?

[parris]

StVitus brought up a good point with 2 sets of car seats. I don't know about where you are but many of the sheriff dept's here in upstate NY give away free car seats. Ours has literally a garage stall of them in boxes during many times of the year.

[ultraman6970]

I think like live2ridehard.

I have no idea how your mechanic skills are but in general lines with old cars you have to try to perform the tasks yourself or the cost to keep an old car it will get just insane. Now apparently you have family and sure money will be short once the baby pops out of mommy's belly, the only advice I can give you is get good oil (royal purple synth for example) for the engine and the tranny and the car probably will last forever, maybe spend 30 bucks and put an extra cooler for that transmission as a preventive measure only, that can be done at home.

As for the water pump, well that's a tough call IMO because you never know what or when it will say bye bye.

This is a link of how to swap the water pump in your car in case you want to do it... even with pictures.

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=44958

[p nut]

What's the payoff on the Subaru? Whether you buy it or not would depend on what is left owing on it. If it is substantially below market value, I would personally get it. I have an Outback w/ CVT and I actually like it a lot. I also feel better about having the wife drive a newer car than the old '99 Toyota we sold with 160k miles. Maybe New =/= Dead Reliable, but the Subaru has been great for us. Lot safer as well. Traction control, side curtain airbags, etc. of the newer car can help keep your kid(s) safe in an accident.

My Honda love goes back 20 years, but when it was time to let my 200k Civic go, I didn't hesitate. Fortunately no car payments for me with the new Honda, but even if I did have to finance, I would have still done it. Vehicle safety has come a long ways even from 14 years ago.

[Nooch]

getting ride of the VW is coming back to haunt you on this one eh?

Eh, I wouldn't say it's haunting -- that car would have needed $1000 for the t-belt etc months after I sold it.

I only did the timing belt now because honda was running a promo, and I know the engine is an interference engine from when my mother's t-belt went in her integra many moons ago. I've also had a t-belt go in a 2.0 vw jetta with a 268* camshaft, which turned an otherwise non-interference engine into one, and had to rebuild the head... (belt didn't actually go on that -- the crankshaft pulley sheared off and timing went.)

The CR-V has been a great beast that's required very little attention. I've changed the oil, did a full tuneup, replaced the battery, and it's been good to go. I drove it much more than anticipated when I took a job at the restaurant delivering food, before I realized I wasn't making enough money and started waiting tables.. It's been great in the snow and dead reliable, so I'm not too haunted :)

[Netdewt]

BTW, you'll need two sets of car seats. Just no way around this. Ask me how I know.

This.

We have 2 and #3 due in June, yet we already own at least 6 car seats. I'm not in charge of car seat buying so I'm not really sure how that happened.

[EDS]

1. Drive CR-V until it dies (even if it only gives you another 30k that is still two years).

2. Start setting aside a small amount each month for a car/emergency fund, just in case.

3. Pretty sure you can purchase a second "base" for the infant car seat so just slap that into place on both cars and you are good to go.

4. Leather seats, in my experience, are easier to clean-up after the little one throws-up (my daughter, who is now three, can still pretty much puke on demand in a car, particularly if grandpa is driving).

[carpediemracing]

We have latch seats also, with a click type thing, but the seats aren't a big deal to use with seat belts. I tried it because we've flown with the seat and wasn't sure what the family car had over there.

Also once a kid is over a certain weight they're saying that the latches may fail. I think the combined weight is 65 lbs, seat and kid. This is one of those things that you learn when you're an actual registered owner, you get these emails and stuff. So it's seat belts at some point to be safe.

We bought two seats but it's expensive. Certainly not the priority. We survived with one seat, two bases (back in the baby days, 5-30 lbs kid range), then one "bigger" seat (5-120 lbs kid range). We finally got a second identical "bigger" seat. We have three vehicles though. The bigger seat weights a ton and it's no fun dragging it through the airport. Moving Junior from one car to another means lifting about 50-60 lbs.

[veloduffer]

I will throw another wrinkle into the equation-- how often and far will the kid be in the CR-V? Your Honda pre-dates a lot of newer safety features like side airbags. Given the traffic of NJ roads, accidents are more commonplace than in other parts of the US.

When we had our first child, I sold my perfectly good , but older, Outback to get a car with the latest and greatest safety features and ratings. 287 with all the trucks and fast speed, I needed more peace of mind (I work in risk management so that's my mindset).

I would also weigh how much is the Impreza's cost. If it is a bargain, you might want to bite the bullet now. The Honda is a roll of the dice and if you roll craps, your replacement cost might be higher. It sounds like the payments are manageable, so would payments on a new car be higher if you had to replace the Honda?

[Gummee]

since I don't own a CR-V, is the water pump failure a 'given' or a 'maybe?'

...and since when are water pumps 'wear and tear' items?!

M

[cmg]

a vote for the CR-v. The value isn't what it's worth but what it prevents you from spending. Drive it until the motor blows and then replace the motor and doing again. a new car is $30k. drive the honda for the 60 months and save the $30k, even if you replace the engine it will be cheaper.

[pbarry]

since I don't own a CR-V, is the water pump failure a 'given' or a 'maybe?'

...and since when are water pumps 'wear and tear' items?!

M

They are. I've driven a Toyota HE van and Jetta diesel over the recommended service intervals, and never lost a T belt, but both H2O pumps went not long after the RSI.

The Impreza sounds like a fair deal or better. Get two more car seats, buy the Subaru and life will have two fewer complications.

[Ralph]

If you shop around, thee is not much you can't fix on an older car for the amount of the sales tax on a new car. Just the sales tax. Much much cheaper to keep an old car running than buy another car. BTW....water pumps usually give some warning before they totally go out. leak, etc. Getting those bolts out shouldn't be a big deal to an experienced mechanic. Drill, easy outs, etc. They do it all the time.

However.....do understand the tug of getting a new or newer vehicle.

[Nooch]

Baby one never rides in the cr-v. However , the thought now is what if we split them up for whatever reason -- man coverage, lol.

I'm not concerned so much about moving the seats, just added convenience and the reason we bought our specific seats. Our first grew out of the infant carrier so quickly we opted to skip it this time around, so no additional bases. But again, not the hugest deal.

[Ken Robb]

Getting those bolts out shouldn't be a big deal to an experienced mechanic. Drill, easy outs, etc. They do it all the time.

.

I'm guessing that the rusted bolts may be in a position where a wrench fits but a drill would not hence the big estimate to cover pulling the engine to get at the bolts if they break.

[54ny77]

Sell the wife, get one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sivt84RuTk#t=72

3D printed turbo housing. Unreal tech.