Commentary on NAHBS 2014 - Aspired to Gagosian and Settled for Interbike-lite

[fuzzalow]

Presented here is a commentary on NAHBS. It was outlined on the flight back to New York from Charlotte but not completed due to lack of time. The flight time from CLT-LGA is considerably shorter than the reverse.

As always, thanks for reading.

[fuzzalow]

Commentary on NAHBS 2014 - A Bicycle Show That Aspired to Gagosian and Settled for Interbike-lite

My visit to Charlotte, NC was my first live and in color immersion to NAHBS in the form of the 2014 exhibition. Up until then, I had experienced the phenomenon of NAHBS as an annual flurry of pictures and reporting on all manner and contrivance of bicycle. I saw the year-by-year changes at arms length although always through the rose-colored prism of a bicycle enthusiast and a buyer.

It was not long ago a time when, even post-Lehman Brothers, the handmade bike market was still vibrant and growing. Or was it coasting on momentum from the spent-fuel of home equity? I was simpatico with the organizer, frame builders and cycling enthusiasts in a hopeful aspiration. That the time had come where the builders and the buyers would coalesce into a critical mass that could create and sustain commercializing of the custom bicycle. This offshoot of the general bicycle market at large would serve a marketplace not enthralled to Tour de France marketing imagery but imbued by an acceptance and appreciation of both form, function and varying degrees of artisan craftwork. Or maybe even in baser terms, just owning a handcrafted bike as a statement product - "no mass market for this wannabe connoisseur".

The immediate analog brought to mind was NAHBS as a gallery and market catalyst for many known, unknown and up-and-coming frame builders that might exhibit their work. As the pioneering, premier showplace for the custom bicycle craft, NAHBS would nurture, create exposure, publicize and increase desirability, and thereby the asking price, of a frame builder's output. NAHBS had already held prior shows that were crucibles for a cadre of newer frame builders extending the creative boundaries of the bicycle form.

Not at all unlike the symbiosis that exists between an art gallery's promotion of an artist's work in their own gallery as a means of increasing the prestige and value of both parties - the sweetness of virtuous cycles. A strategy with much upside potential and proven to work as exemplified by the phenomenal success of Larry Gagosian and his creation of the Gagosian Gallery and its branches in the art world. Might the similar be achievable given the right melange of exhibition, marketing & promotion, frame builder talent along with cultivated consumer awareness & aspiration for the custom bicycle craft. Perhaps a difficult combustion to ignite under any circumstance given the exactness of the correct proportions required from all parties in making an explosive cultural mix.

My impression of NAHBS is colored by my limited and provincial interests in the bicycle world. As far as it goes with the bicycle as a sporting implement, I find little to gush over much past Italian race bikes and their stylistic derivatives. But I have respect for the builder and his craft and a deep appreciation for the builder's endeavor to press forwards an artistic vision and an aesthetic progression. Like pentatonic scales that impose both structure and limitation to a blues musician, there are confounding limitations in the bicycle medium that stymie acceptance of the outlandish as anything other than a novelty item - a rider still has to ride the bike and not look ridiculous in doing so. Unlike art promoted at a Gagosian Gallery, the NAHBS bike objects are not solely grounded by beauty but also that they have to function.

I had the delight to meet a builder that for my taste in bicycles places him at my pinnacle of the bicycle craft and the artistic aesthetic: Dario Pegoretti.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G5Nob5P7IUI/UyeYNbmfm2I/AAAAAAAAAfk/SC_gph93MiU/s640/dsc00651.jpg
I respect many contemporary builders and I own a bicycle from them each but none do I revere to the same as Signore Pegoretti. Upon meeting Dario, I was immediately struck by his modesty, his easy going manner and his flightiness at being the center of attention at the large Pegoretti booth his North American distributor Gita had bought for him. Throughout the day, I would see Dario wandering about the convention hall, almost as avoidance to the fuss and attention that awaited to be lavished on him back at his namesake booth. So being anywhere but the his booth was fine: standing alone by the Brooks booth; outside on line at Starbucks; having a shot at the builder's jig booth.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n-zgvCZf0Aw/UyeYl5e32LI/AAAAAAAAAfs/RFrh9Hmoefk/s640/dsc00687.jpg
And yet every time I saw Dario meet any of the owners or fans of his bicycles, I never failed to see his face light up with ease, comfort and cordiality in sharing a meeting, signing an autograph or laughter at a joke. And in my case, all three. I told Dario meeting him, to me, was like meeting and having a picture taken with one of the Beatles. I also joked with him that the Beatle he'd most likely have been would have been John as he was the smart Beatle (as said by Mohammed Ali after he met the Fab Four). Dario doubled over in laughter at the mere suggestion of being called smart which his modesty would never allow even in jest. Dario is a man devoid of pretense or airs - he is quite simply a nice man.

And there in the uniqueness of Dario Pegoretti lies the fatal flaw to the growth and prosperity of the custom handcrafted bicycle market and NAHBS as bicycle art gallery: There aren't enough Darios. Yes, there is a selection of world class frame builders and they are all capable and all have demonstrated work of uncompromising quality and aesthetic. Some have displayed at NAHBS and some have not. But only a few have the independence of identity that allows them to create as they may free from the leaden weight of expectation. It is from these truly independent builders that the drive forwards is expected with the broadening of the scope and acceptance to follow in their wake. Expectation is the antidote to creativity. Expectation marketed to the extent as perceived as de rigueur is what the bicycle industry wields to great effect. A bicycle consumer's acceptance of those qualities is submission to the status quo.

And the clients provide the complementary flaw from achieving a truly artisan and craft driven marketplace for the custom bicycle: There are not enough buyers that can accept the bicycle from a custom frame builder as a solitary unique and complete work. To mean that the client has no preconditions that must be met other than belief in the aesthetic vision of the frame builder and the requirement that the bike must fit. In reality, there is always room for some client priority. However the building of a bike to the nth degree of customer specification becomes less the provenance of the custom builder and more the mechanics of fabrication.

It is here in this purgatory between custom artisanship and stock production is my view that therein lies the future of NAHBS. What started out under lofty ideals has over time matured into something more practical in being less reliant on a talent pool of frame builders which does not truly exist - there aren't enough Darios. While also simultaneously demanding less from a bicycle consumer in procuring a bike through an experience far afield from the typical purchase transaction. This type of experience and custom bike hits all the pleasure points for known qualities and attributes but goes one better in being made custom in collaboration with the frame builder.

NAHBS has adapted right before our watchful eyes over the years. It has taken on a strange form of annual accelerated intervalic Darwinism. And it has evolved from an ersatz bicycle Gagosian to its natural state as Interbike-lite.

[e-RICHIE]

NAHBS has adapted right before our watchful eyes over the years. It has taken on a strange form of annual accelerated intervalic Darwinism. And it has evolved from an ersatz bicycle Gagosian to its natural state as Interbike-lite.
I saw it coming in the 90s. So did Michael Kimmelman (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/10/arts/art-review-at-the-whitney-a-celebration-of-beat-culture-sandals-and-all.html) atmo.

Capitalism has a way of absorbing the marginal into the mainstream and making a profit on it.

[oldpotatoe]

I saw it coming in the 90s. So did Michael Kimmelman (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/10/arts/art-review-at-the-whitney-a-celebration-of-beat-culture-sandals-and-all.html) atmo.

Not discounting what Mr fuzzalow wrote, think he is spot on but Mr. Richie, frame builder, how to you see NAHBS, past, present and future?

And how can anybody but Dario win the Italian frame award??

[e-RICHIE]

Not discounting what Mr fuzzalow wrote, think he is spot on but Mr. Richie, frame builder, how to you see NAHBS, past, present and future?

And how can anybody but Dario win the Italian frame award??

There's the rub. Personally I have been anti-awards since Day One. We are (were) there to
cooperate not to compete. And, just like instruments, the part comes alive when it's played,
not looked at.

[MattTuck]

Interesting reading. There is something very special about Pegoretti... probably 5th or 6th on my list of customs that I want.

As far as the comment on 'interbike lite', I recall we had a discussion about NAHBS last year or two years ago in which someone (it could have been me, I honestly can't remember) floated the idea of a totally virtual NAHBS... online well photographed frames, customer testimonials, online chats with the builders, etc.

Knowing many people that have gone to trade shows, it is of dubious value. Yes, flying the flag is sometimes necessary; but when it costs $10K or more to attend the show, and the prep requires you to take time away from existing customers' projects, is it really worth it?

[corky]

Interesting reading. There is something very special about Pegoretti... probably 5th or 6th on my list of customs that I want.

As far as the comment on 'interbike lite', I recall we had a discussion about NAHBS last year or two years ago in which someone (it could have been me, I honestly can't remember) floated the idea of a totally virtual NAHBS... online well photographed frames, customer testimonials, online chats with the builders, etc.

Knowing many people that have gone to trade shows, it is of dubious value. Yes, flying the flag is sometimes necessary; but when it costs $10K or more to attend the show, and the prep requires you to take time away from existing customers' projects, is it really worth it?


How can you quantify it..??? someone may see something at a booth and 8 months later gets in line, how does the builder ever know that it was the meeting at nahbs that inspired the later decision....

[FlashUNC]

How can you quantify it..??? someone may see something at a booth and 8 months later gets in line, how does the builder ever know that it was the meeting at nahbs that inspired the later decision....

Builder to customer: "So, how did you hear about me?"

Customer to builder: "Well, I didn't really know about you, then I saw your booth at NAHBS..."

Seems pretty simple to me. Lundbeck Cycles is now on my radar thanks to his NAHBS booth this year.

[nicrump]

I liked this read. I began typing a response to challenge the notion, something along the lines of we only need one Dario as well as one so and so and one so on as I read from the list of exhibiting FBs of the NAHBS website.

The more I cruised that list, the more I understood where you are coming from. But fortunately you get one Dario. Dario's past is so far and away unique from any other builder on the scene today. It cannot be replicated, duplicated and isn't even a model anyone can follow.

You get one Dario. And I am OK with that.

[Climb01742]

I've never been to NAHBS and to Interbike only once, which was enough, thank you very much. So I'm not qualified to comment on them. But I do know Dario and I've owned just about all of his bikes save an Emma. He is unique, indeed. I know his work isn't everyone's taste, and that's how it should be, as nothing and no one that is truly themselves can be. Dario's bikes are amazing, but then so are those from many builders. What sets Dario apart for me is him, his personality, his humility, his humor, his total Italian-ness, his intelligence, his sense of history, his principles and his openness to interact with us, just average bike riders. If he's your cup of tea, own a Pegoretti, and if you can, meet the man.

[MattTuck]

How can you quantify it..??? someone may see something at a booth and 8 months later gets in line, how does the builder ever know that it was the meeting at nahbs that inspired the later decision....

Builder to customer: "So, how did you hear about me?"

Customer to builder: "Well, I didn't really know about you, then I saw your booth at NAHBS..."

Seems pretty simple to me. Lundbeck Cycles is now on my radar thanks to his NAHBS booth this year.

Yep.

And your example illustrates the challenge to a small builder. They have to fork out the money TODAY, in hopes that someone puts an order in 8 months from now. I'm not sure what the profit margin on a frame is, but I'd bet the average builder would need 3 or 4 orders just to cover the costs associated with attending NAHBS -- and only if they had more orders than that would it be profitable.

No guarantees, but I'd think that a solid social media presence would provide a better Return on Investment. It is a pretty typical question for market research to ask a customer, "Where did you learn about us?" if most people are saying "NAHBS", then by all means, keep going. If most people are saying "I read about you on xyz forum", perhaps it is wise to spend your time there.

[Climb01742]

yep. good, if not great, photography, a well-designed website and social media like FB, tumblr and instagram to get those photos out there.

[corky]

Builder to customer: "So, how did you hear about me?"

Customer to builder: "Well, I didn't really know about you, then I saw your booth at NAHBS..."

Seems pretty simple to me. Lundbeck Cycles is now on my radar thanks to his NAHBS booth this year.

I don"t think it is that simple, I have had several frames built for me, never once was i asked why or how I selected that builder.....

The customer may not even remember that it was the Nahbs meeting that sparked the initial interest/order, most people will go on to subsequently research said builder via the internet, others experiences etc.

[nicrump]

Or simply build a metric ton of frames before anyone knows who you are. This is what separates Dario from the rest.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and even though I've never been to Interbke, I have been to large trade shows and, beyond a certain point, they are all the same no matter what product is being hawked.

I'm perfectly OK with NAHBS being "Interbike-lite" as long as that is what it positions itself as in it's mission statement and publicity. That's what got me about this year's show. It has obviously drifted far away from what.

I think the show itself was pretty well-sized to see some new stuff, meet old and new friends, and get a flavor for a particular segment of the industry--without being totally overwhelming. There's just that disconnect between what it says it is and what it really is once you get in the doors.

BBD

[jr59]

This type of thread always comes up right after the show.

There is no correct answer. I would tend to think that the builders that are full are less inclined to attend. No info here other than my opinion from talking to builders who have attended before and don't know.

It's costly advertisement at best. How can guys with years on their books, look at the people waiting in good faith?

Going to see old friends, share info, and such is all good and fine. Spendind huge amounts of time and cash to do such.....well some feel it's worth it. A LOT don't or no longer feel the need. The list that doesn't show is larger and better known than the showing group. At least to me.

[Climb01742]

Or simply build a metric ton of frames before anyone knows who you are. This is what separates Dario from the rest.

^ true dat.

the now famous malcolm gladwell figure of 10,000 hours to get good at something works best if about 9000 of those hours come with the world not watching your mistakes. learning curves can be ugly. Dario really did have an old school learning curve.

[FlashUNC]

I liked this read. I began typing a response to challenge the notion, something along the lines of we only need one Dario as well as one so and so and one so on as I read from the list of exhibiting FBs of the NAHBS website.

The more I cruised that list, the more I understood where you are coming from. But fortunately you get one Dario. Dario's past is so far and away unique from any other builder on the scene today. It cannot be replicated, duplicated and isn't even a model anyone can follow.

You get one Dario. And I am OK with that.

I'd go so far as to say I wouldn't want more than one Dario. I agree with Fuzz's point overall, but I guess we diverge in that I enjoyed the show's provided a wider spectrum of philosophies, personalities and designs. On some level, all of these bikes are an artistic expression and while Dario's are making a pretty bold one, I also appreciated those that made a bit more understated statement. Dave Wages' Carolina blue SLX-lugged road bike made me weak in the knees. I thought Sycip's barbecue bike was a super cool marriage of functionality and aesthetic. (Heavy as hell to move in the photo booth though.)



I don"t think it is that simple, I have had several frames built for me, never once was i asked why or how I selected that builder.....

The customer may not even remember that it was the Nahbs meeting that sparked the initial interest/order, most people will go on to subsequently research said builder via the internet, others experiences etc.

Then that's a failure on the builder's part. That's basic customer market research and feedback to help better guide future marketing decisions. Given limited resources, to me that's one of first questions to ask. Was certainly one of the first questions I got when I ordered my Della Santa.

On the flip side as a customer, if you can't remember going to NAHBS and liking what the builder had there peaking your interest -- even if the order comes a year or two down the line -- enough to plunk down several thousand dollars on the barrel head, then there might be some more pressing concerns.

[R2D2]

I liked this read. I began typing a response to challenge the notion, something along the lines of we only need one Dario as well as one so and so and one so on as I read from the list of exhibiting FBs of the NAHBS website.

The more I cruised that list, the more I understood where you are coming from. But fortunately you get one Dario. Dario's past is so far and away unique from any other builder on the scene today. It cannot be replicated, duplicated and isn't even a model anyone can follow.

You get one Dario. And I am OK with that.

You're one of a kind too Nic.

[corky]

Then that's a failure on the builder's part. That's basic customer market research and feedback to help better guide future marketing decisions. Given limited resources, to me that's one of first questions to ask. Was certainly one of the first questions I got when I ordered my Della Santa.

On the flip side as a customer, if you can't remember going to NAHBS and liking what the builder had there peaking your interest -- even if the order comes a year or two down the line -- enough to plunk down several thousand dollars on the barrel head, then there might be some more pressing concerns.

Of course it"s a failure...that's obvious....... but it happens.

You are taking my point too literally, stuff gets lost in the noise.....

[Mikej]

I would buy a heavy glossy magazine containing each booth at nahbs. Also, just to point out, nahbs is not really a trade show, it is more consumer direct than big yearly orders by individual retailers. I like, so lets not get overly "bohemian" about it in fancy articles, let the bikes speak and the people look.

[David Kirk]

This type of thread always comes up right after the show.

There is no correct answer. I would tend to think that the builders that are full are less inclined to attend. No info here other than my opinion from talking to builders who have attended before and don't know.

It's costly advertisement at best. How can guys with years on their books, look at the people waiting in good faith?

Going to see old friends, share info, and such is all good and fine. Spendind huge amounts of time and cash to do such.....well some feel it's worth it. A LOT don't or no longer feel the need. The list that doesn't show is larger and better known than the showing group. At least to me.


It’s taken me a number of years to have these thoughts come clear in my head but over time I’ve come to believe that any bike show geared toward the handmade builder will end up being most appropriate for the brand new builder at one end of the spectrum and the large handbuilt guys like Moots, IF and Pegoretti at the other.

Unfortunately pure, cold economics come into play here and these make it very hard for most established one man shops to justify participation. Simply put if the builder has a queue of just one bike, and has reasonable confidence that another order will come in time to keep him from leaning against the bench with nothing to do, then spending any money or time on a show makes little sense. In other words spending money and/or time to make a queue longer does nothing to benefit the bottom line.

But for the far ends of the spectrum it makes much more sense……….if you are a new builder that needs to establish the brand and meet as many potential customers as possible a show can be the best money they could spend. A show can give them exposure and possibly some press and this can help create demand so that a queue develops. Couple this with the fact that the time they spend preparing for, attending, and recovering from a show isn’t taking them away from a pile of orders at home and it’s easy to see why it’s money well spent.

At the other end you have the larger handbuilt shops that have a small workforce that makes the bikes and other guys that sell them. In most cases these shops are not operating at capacity and could produce more bikes if the orders came in – or if need be ramp up to meet demand. Unlike a one man shop their output isn’t limited to what one guy can produce. The key thing for these shops is that the bulk of the preparation for the show (booking rooms and flights, arranging shipping, renting cars….etc) is handled by sales staff and the guys building the bikes keep building the bikes and keep a positive cash flow. And when it comes time to go to a show the sales guys and/or owner go and man the booth and shake hands while at home the guys are cutting pipes and making sparks. There is much less interruption of the production and cash flow and this in the end keeps the cost down. Combine this with the fact that the cost of a show is spread out over MANY more units sold and that the cost is proportionally much smaller for them compared to a one man shop and it becomes a no-brainer for the large handbuilt businesses to attend.

There are reasons other than financial that a one man shop might want to attend – see their friends and clients, visit tool makers that might have stuff they need, get the emotional satisfaction of having people fawn over their hard work……..etc and these are all valid. If a builder sees the cost of time and money worth it to do the above then it might make sense for them to do a show. You also have the case of the one man shop who is lucky enough to have a show land in his back yard so that the cost and time to attend are very low compared to putting a crate in a truck and getting on a plane. Hell, if there was a show in Montana I’d sign up in a New York minute.

In the end I think that the very concept of having a show for one man shops to travel to is flawed and this could very well be why we are seeing an obvious decline in the number of established one man shops making the trip. It’s a gamble either way and you puts down your money and takes your chances for sure. All the distractions of awards and judging, cost of a booth and the amount of press that is or isn’t there matter little if there is work at home waiting to be done.

dave

[civdic]

I attended this year for the first time. I braved the icy roads of Canada and took my 13 twin boys along for the ride. I bought 3 days of tickets with the plan of being able to visit for a couple of hours a day. We had a fantastic time. We spoke to multiple frame builders big and small and I was very impressed with the whole show.

I have attended some smaller and larger bike shows that have turned into flee markets, bike shops getting rid of last years models and 5 year old discontinued shoes and jerseys. My boys enjoyed being talked to by Steve Potts and "Ed Diamond"(Chris King) Dario and the crew at Mosaic. Dario and Ed made the comment that my boys were the future and made sure they got a few trinkets that weren't on display.

I got the sense from many frame builders both large and small it was about relationship building. The larger guys seem less interested in talking but I kind off understand that as they have a dealer network to handle the sales of their product.

I was a little confused about the Shimano booth. Tons of staff talking to themselves and not engaging many people in their booth.

It was nice to hear and see other builders talking with each other about techniques and the openness they had with each other. I had a great attendee experience. I plan on going back next year. My boys are hoping to attend as well. One of my sons says he needs to grow a good sized beard and get a few tats before next year.

[EricEstlund]

One of my sons says he needs to grow a good sized beard and get a few tats before next year.

Now that is a NAHBS success story!

I'll chime in on the point that asking clients how they found you is valuable. It helps me get a sense for how the word spreads, and if the money and time I spend are well used. It also helps me learn a little bit more about my client.

[MadRocketSci]

I have two pegoretti's, aluminum. They're great bikes, optimized by intuition, experience and a couple of floating point operations on a hand calculator. But they're still just a simple structure of 8 round tubes welded together. I don't get the reverence and fandom and i'm sure S. Pegoretti doesn't either.

[Joachim]

I have two pegoretti's, aluminum. They're great bikes, optimized by intuition, experience and a couple of floating point operations on a hand calculator. But they're still just a simple structure of 8 round tubes welded together. I don't get the reverence and fandom and i'm sure S. Pegoretti doesn't either.

One of my favorite Dario quotes, "I'm just a blacksmith"....

[Ahneida Ride]

And the clients provide the complementary flaw from achieving a truly artisan and craft driven marketplace for the custom bicycle: There are not enough buyers that can accept the bicycle from a custom frame builder as a solitary unique and complete work. To mean that the client has no preconditions that must be met other than belief in the aesthetic vision of the frame builder and the requirement that the bike must fit. In reality, there is always room for some client priority. However the building of a bike to the nth degree of customer specification becomes less the provenance of the custom builder and more the mechanics of fabrication.

Does this mean the client has limited input?
Is the frame built to satisfy the rider or builder?
I really don't comprehend the above quote. :confused:
Clients are responsible for the expansion of NAHBS and the
dilution of its original intent?

I specified my Bedford as a Sport Tourer with stainless lugs, stainless
rear triangle and fork crown. I also picked (with Kelly's imprimatur) the
paint color, but not the paint scheme. Kelly did the rest.
40 years ago I dreamed of this bike. Is my patience and persistence
a "complementary flaw" ?

Did I mitigate the aesthetic vision of the builder?
I think not.


The very definition of custom equates to complete client satisfaction via
the creation of a "solitary unique and complete work".
A good builder and good client work as a team to make the vision a reality.
A good builder must decline a commission he feels is inappropriate.

[victoryfactory]

NAHBS is a great forum for lesser known builders to get some press and buzz going.
Once that is accomplished and you have a Q a mile long and good cred, NAHBS
might just be an expensive chore and an interruption.
Tom K, Dave K, Kelly B, eRICHIE and many others don't need to attend unless
they want to.

If/when the Q dries up, they can reconsider....

If you do bring an outstanding product to NAHBS You do have a pretty good
chance of getting some press. Maybe even an order or two.

But as mentioned here, some of the original vibe is gone and folks are wondering
about the compromises and shifting rules which the manager has put in place to
continue to grow.

Comparisons to interbike are interesting. Interbike is a true TRADE show. End users
need not apply. They are selling to the trade. If we civilians manage to sneak in, it's just to oggle.

NAHBS seems to be slowly migrating in that direction with plenty of tubesets, parts,
jigs and tools available for the builders themselves. Maybe that is one possible future for this show?


VF

[bikingshearer]

. . . Is the frame built to satisfy the rider or builder? . . . .

. . . . A good builder and good client work as a team to make the vision a reality.
A good builder must decline a commission he feels is inappropriate.

Good answer to your own question. My answer to your question would be: Ideally, both. The client should get a bike he or she is proud to own and loves to ride. The builder should get. besides a check, another example of his/her skill and aesthetic sense for the client and the world to see and experience. The classic win/win.

[Ahneida Ride]

Even if the Booths were free ...

The ancillary costs can be staggering ... (travel, hotel, shipping, food...)

I still love the show ... Wish I could have attended.

[Doug Fattic]

As framebuilders we have benefited from Don starting NAHBS and raising awareness in the general riding public the advantages and beauty of what a custom frame can really be. Most magazines – which are essentially vehicles to make a profit for their owners – don’t give much press to non-advertisers without a compelling reason. NAHBS has allowed them to bring attention to our craft, I’m a painter and builder but primarily a teacher of framebuilding classes and many of my students were inspired to try building themselves by either attending NAHBS or seeing pictures online or in print. However as the show has matured so has our understanding of its benefits vs costs to us builders. Many of my colleagues have now decided from their past experience that it just isn’t worth it for them to spend all that money and effort to show outside of their regional area. Or because they are in some disagreement with Don and/or his philosophies. This is a big and growing group (that I am the unofficial president of) that adds new disgruntled members all the time. I predict (which I have for years on Paceline before) that it will continue to move towards being more a bicycle product show. NAHBS is a profit making business for Don and as small framebuilders drop away for one reason or another (from the limited supply pool), their booth space will be filled by other somehow bicycle related businesses.

[Dave Wages]

There are reasons other than financial that a one man shop might want to attend – see their friends and clients, visit tool makers that might have stuff they need, get the emotional satisfaction of having people fawn over their hard work……..etc and these are all valid. If a builder sees the cost of time and money worth it to do the above then it might make sense for them to do a show. You also have the case of the one man shop who is lucky enough to have a show land in his back yard so that the cost and time to attend are very low compared to putting a crate in a truck and getting on a plane. Hell, if there was a show in Montana I’d sign up in a New York minute.

dave

Once again, Dave pretty much nails it with his comments, I'll just try to add my two cents.

Here's my perspective on attending, and some of the reasons why I've attended the last 6 NAHBS. At the end of the day, I'm probably more of an introvert than an extrovert, but if there's anything that I do enjoy talking to folks about, it's the bikes that I build. In an average week I might take a handful of calls, maybe have a customer stop by for a shop visit, but for the most part I'm working in a vacuum here in my basement shop in Waterford Wisconsin, and that's not a bad thing by any means. But, given the chance, I love chatting with folks about my bikes and giving them a chance to see them up close and in person. I think that it's possible in some cases to almost "hide" behind a website with enough clever marketing and cool pictures, but to see a bike up close, feel the paint, see the tight lug margins and recognize the handwork that goes into each and every one, that really appeals to me. Personally, I feel like my painter, Jason Sanchez is as good or better than anyone currently putting color on a bike, so I jump at the chance to have people see his work up close, heck, get out your magnifying glass if you'd like, you just won't find any flaws. It's hard to show that on a website, so NAHBS, or any other show is a great way to get the word out.

As Dave and others mention, it's tough to justify the costs of attending NAHBS if you're an established builder, which I hope that I am at this point, maybe being centrally located in the midwest helps a bit, I've been able to drive to every one of the last 6 NAHBS with the exception of Sacramento. Louisville is going to be closer than any of the last six for me with the exception of Indy, so I'm not sure what I'll decide to do next year.

I would like to thank all the folks who stopped by at this year's NAHBS and checked out the Ellis', it was a pleasure to meet some new folks and see lots of old friends as well.

Cheers,
Dave

[Chris]

I braved the icy roads of Canada and took my 13 twin boys along for the ride.

You have 26 kids?

[pcb]

Decompressed my brain and put together some NAHBS sets today, should be accessible at the link below. Still have to edit/add a Peeps/Candid set, maybe tomorrow?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26383479@N04/collections/72157642621665223/

[Brian Smith]

The straws were being grasped at before the first ever mention of the term "Original Six." At this point, even that math is faulty. (http://2014.handmadebicycleshow.com/about-nahbs/nahbs-original-six/) We're so over it.

[Mikej]

Decompressed my brain and put together some NAHBS sets today, should be accessible at the link below. Still have to edit/add a Peeps/Candid set, maybe tomorrow?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26383479@N04/collections/72157642621665223/

Thanks, great set of pics. I have a question, I know Tom Ritchey was the man back in the early days, but where does Ritchey Bicycles stand as far as being a NAHBS exhibitor - I thought they were not really made in the US (Asia?), or by Tom , so are those frames even part of the idea?

[fuzzalow]

My thanks and heartfelt appreciation to all the frame builders, save one, that have replied in a thoughtful, substantive manner in adding to this conversation.

A few random thoughts:

I have much respect for builders that advance their own craft and build aesthetic. It is a very difficult endeavor to do this and I am convinced that much of the time these minute forward progressions go unnoticed by the average customer. And I also believe that dedicated, creative builders such as these will, and would, incorporate these changes into their bikes whether the public was aware of these changes or not - because their creative muse requires them to satisfy themselves and the way forwards is always a subtle progression.

My own task for my own advancement in my interest in the bicycle aesthetic is to be cognizant of the details as to those changes. The builders strive, sometimes with the smallest of steps, to move forwards. My goal is not to miss seeing those steps.

For example: Shifter cable stops can be done any number of ways. Using Pegoretti's recent work as illustrative of the minute progression - the stops are brazed to the down tube in an anhedral angle rather than radially oriented to the tube. Contrast this method to the crude simplicity of having the shifter stops cast into the lower headtube lug - and aesthetic abomination and a time-saving construction method worthy of PRC factory output quotas. The former example is illustrative to the creative spark, the latter example indicative to saving steps in doing a job.

As an oversimplification, a good work should ideally challenge the audience it is intended for. As an oversimplification, a good audience should ideally set aside expectation and attempt to allow the artist or builder to take them forwards.

My impression of NAHBS was somewhat disappointing, it seemed a show in transition. A few years ago it was as if anyone that could hang up a shingle could call themselves a builder. I saw only one bike with a beer motif and I'd guess it was a leftover from the shows during the height of the beer-bike craze. I can make an admittedly goofy analogy of NAHBS to the American Idol TV franchise: there are not really very many good singers in the world despite the TV shows premise that they will find them (there are none to be found). IMO there aren't that many world class bike builders either - the good ones are the ones that usually move their craft forwards.

[victoryfactory]

For example: Shifter cable stops can be done any number of ways. Using Pegoretti's recent work as illustrative of the minute progression - the stops are brazed to the down tube in an anhedral angle rather than radially oriented to the tube. Contrast this method to the crude simplicity of having the shifter stops cast into the lower headtube lug - and aesthetic abomination and a time-saving construction method worthy of PRC factory output quotas. The former example is illustrative to the creative spark, the latter example indicative to saving steps in doing a job.


really?
imo, any cable stop on a downtube is a leftover from the days of DT shifters. It requires more housing is less direct and usually creates cable rub
on the HT. I think well designed HT cable stops are mo betta. I just haven't seen many.
VF

[93legendti]

:rolleyes:Wow. :rolleyes: LOVE the HT lug cable stops on my Kirk JKS Terraplane.

It's a show, run by someone making money for his efforts. It's up to him how he runs it. A builder should make his/her own decision as whether or not to exhibit at the Show. Is this an "issue" to use to try and build blog cred?:rolleyes:

[oldpotatoe]

As framebuilders we have benefited from Don starting NAHBS and raising awareness in the general riding public the advantages and beauty of what a custom frame can really be. Most magazines – which are essentially vehicles to make a profit for their owners – don’t give much press to non-advertisers without a compelling reason. NAHBS has allowed them to bring attention to our craft, I’m a painter and builder but primarily a teacher of framebuilding classes and many of my students were inspired to try building themselves by either attending NAHBS or seeing pictures online or in print. However as the show has matured so has our understanding of its benefits vs costs to us builders. Many of my colleagues have now decided from their past experience that it just isn’t worth it for them to spend all that money and effort to show outside of their regional area. Or because they are in some disagreement with Don and/or his philosophies. This is a big and growing group (that I am the unofficial president of) that adds new disgruntled members all the time. I predict (which I have for years on Paceline before) that it will continue to move towards being more a bicycle product show. NAHBS is a profit making business for Don and as small framebuilders drop away for one reason or another (from the limited supply pool), their booth space will be filled by other somehow bicycle related businesses.

Do you envision 'alternative' shows, same city but not at the 'official' NAHBS hall, like there was in Denver...Nobilette, Gordon(?), couple others?

Was there such a thing this year?

[sjbraun]

The OP writes:

"My own task for my own advancement in my interest in the bicycle aesthetic is to be cognizant of the details as to those changes. The builders strive, sometimes with the smallest of steps, to move forwards. My goal is not to miss seeing those steps.

For example: Shifter cable stops can be done any number of ways. Using Pegoretti's recent work as illustrative of the minute progression - the stops are brazed to the down tube in an anhedral angle rather than radially oriented to the tube. Contrast this method to the crude simplicity of having the shifter stops cast into the lower headtube lug - and aesthetic abomination and a time-saving construction method worthy of PRC factory output quotas. The former example is illustrative to the creative spark, the latter example indicative to saving steps in doing a job."

You need to spend more time in the saddle and less time thinking about it.

[charliedid]

Attempting to derive too much meaning from NAHBS and who does and does not show is just spinning wheels.

It's just a bike show.

[civdic]

You have 26 kids?

Some days it feels like it!

[Doug Fattic]

Do you envision 'alternative' shows, same city but not at the 'official' NAHBS hall, like there was in Denver...Nobilette, Gordon(?), couple others? Was there such a thing this year?
Some places in the country have smaller regional bicycle shows that might fit the promotional needs of the I'm-still-keeping-my-day-job or smaller full time builder. For example in Michigan here there is a general bike show in Detroit (that started last year) where framebuilding exhibitors said lots of attendees showed a great deal of interest in custom frames. 5 or 6 framebuilders were grouped together in the exhibit hall. The price of booth/table is small so the cost can fit the budget of almost anybody. Bina Bilenky puts on a terrific bicycle show in Philly every year with exhibit polices that actually make sense.

I don’t know if there was any alternative showing near NAHBS this year. I’m on Don’s naughty list so don't attend NAHBS. In a perfect world there would be a non-profit framebuilders collective or guild that would put on a show that reflected the actual interests of the builders themselves. Policies would be established by an elected board of directors (with members from different areas) that was governed by a written constitution reflecting its mission statement. They would hire an administrative team to carry out the details. Sociology 101 teaches that a group makes better decisions than an individual. Part of the reason framebuilders become framebuilders is because they are independent minded and don’t want a boss telling them what to do so getting them to collectively agree on something would be harder than herding cats. That doesn’t stop me from dreaming however.

[fuzzalow]

This thread started out discussing NAHBS which infers that the bikes being discussed are all top-of-the-line bikes that are deemed worthy of exhibition. And if bikes are put on exhibition, they will invite discussion and critique because the people that view them are knowledgeable about the bikes and are interested in talking about them.

I voiced criticism about the style element of cable stops cast into the headtube lug. I mentioned as praise a builder by name, Pegoretti, who does not do this. I did not disparage anyone by name that does use HT cast cable stops. That's it and nothing more.

really?
imo, any cable stop on a downtube is a leftover from the days of DT shifters. It requires more housing is less direct and usually creates cable rub
on the HT. I think well designed HT cable stops are mo betta. I just haven't seen many.
VF

From my point of view, it is a lousy aesthetic - it ruins the visual lines of the headtube especially if they are part of the investment casting of the lug. For many of my custom bikes, the builder has asked if I wanted a pump peg behind the headtube and I always refuse for the same reason - it ruins the line.

:rolleyes:Wow. :rolleyes: LOVE the HT lug cable stops on my Kirk JKS Terraplane.

I was not talking about YOU and YOUR bike. I am thrilled that YOU love having HT lug cable stops on YOUR bike. I can't think of anything more exciting than talking about YOU! Can YOU? ;) I am joshing you just a bit.

To elaborate a bit: NAHBS bikes are not built to a price point, they are showpiece bikes. If your Kirk was built to the budget you asked for then there may be compromises made to hit your price number. Or maybe that's what DK likes to use. Either way, it is your business and a negotiation between you and DK for what you wanted so what I think is immaterial to you anyway.

You need to spend more time in the saddle and less time thinking about it.

You need to not make errors assuming how much time I think about cable stops. I know what I'm looking at when I see it. If you choose for yourself to be less discerning, well, that's completely up to you - it's a free country, brother.

[93legendti]

This thread started out discussing NAHBS which infers that the bikes being discussed are all top-of-the-line bikes that are deemed worthy of exhibition. And if bikes are put on exhibition, they will invite discussion and critique because the people that view them are knowledgeable about the bikes and are interested in talking about them.

I voiced criticism about the style element of cable stops cast into the headtube lug. I mentioned as praise a builder by name, Pegoretti, who does not do this. I did not disparage anyone by name that does use HT cast cable stops. That's it and nothing more.



From my point of view, it is a lousy aesthetic - it ruins the visual lines of the headtube especially if they are part of the investment casting of the lug. For many of my custom bikes, the builder has asked if I wanted a pump peg behind the headtube and I always refuse for the same reason - it ruins the line.



I was not talking about YOU and YOUR bike. I am thrilled that YOU love having HT lug cable stops on YOUR bike. I can't think of anything more exciting than talking about YOU! Can YOU? ;) I am joshing you just a bit.

To elaborate a bit: NAHBS bikes are not built to a price point, they are showpiece bikes. If your Kirk was built to the budget you asked for then there may be compromises made to hit your price number. Or maybe that's what DK likes to use. Either way, it is your business and a negotiation between you and DK for what you wanted so what I think is immaterial to you anyway.



You need to not make errors assuming how much time I think about cable stops. I know what I'm looking at when I see it. If you choose for yourself to be less discerning, well, that's completely up to you - it's a free country, brother.

"Contrast this method to the crude simplicity of having the shifter stops cast into the lower headtube lug - and aesthetic abomination and a time-saving construction method worthy of PRC factory output quotas. The former example is illustrative to the creative spark, the latter example indicative to saving steps in doing a job."

Yes, you're very funny. Like swoop, viper and dr. Doofus all rolled into one.

[fuzzalow]

"Contrast this method to the crude simplicity of having the shifter stops cast into the lower headtube lug - and aesthetic abomination and a time-saving construction method worthy of PRC factory output quotas. The former example is illustrative to the creative spark, the latter example indicative to saving steps in doing a job."

Yes, you're very funny. Like swoop, viper and dr. Doofus all rolled into one.

Oh c'mon 93legendti, me not liking a style element of your bike is not aimed at you personally.

You're welcome to take a dig at me, if it is witty and in good taste, I will even laugh along with you. I try not to lose the ability to laugh at myself - and for the boneheaded things I do, I give myself lots of reasons. Why so serious? Peace.

Like swoop, viper and dr. Doofus all rolled into one, huh? Ha! They wish.

[dave thompson]

Like swoop, viper and dr. Doofus all rolled into one, huh? Ha! They wish.

You're in good company.

[beeatnik]

oh c'mon 93legendti, me not liking a style element of your bike is not aimed at you personally.

You're welcome to take a dig at me, if it is witty and in good taste, i will even laugh along with you. I try not to lose the ability to laugh at myself - and for the boneheaded things i do, i give myself lots of reasons. Why so serious? Peace.

Like swoop, viper and dr. Doofus all rolled into one, huh? Ha! They wish.

potd

[raygunner]

Do you envision 'alternative' shows, same city but not at the 'official' NAHBS hall, like there was in Denver...Nobilette, Gordon(?), couple others?

Was there such a thing this year?

There were spins off from the Burning Man festival. What about NAHBS?!

[nicrump]

It occurred to me that while many folks are saying NAHBS is on the decline, on its way out, won't last another year. I'd say they are basing this primarily on either their dislike for Don(axe to grind can be seen right here in this thread) and his ways or the lower numbers of attendees in the last 2-3 years.

Well fact is just because it has not grown beyond the peak attendee years doesn't mean it is on its way out. The largest attendance was Portland but in 10 years i'd say that the highest quality attendance has been in just the last 3 years. And this makes sense to me.

Seems the show is settling into its own and could run mostly as is for quite some time. And probably will if it is not destroyed by those who intentionally seek to take it out. As stated, from my seat the last 3 years had the highest quality attendance. It just may be that while numbers are down and builders come and go, the longer the show runs the more the ideal people who we(builders) need to attend eventually seek it out.

I understand that not everyone wants to attend or display. There are many valid reasons and that is each persons prerogative. But I'd caution those listening to try and filter out comments that simply seek to poison the show image for what it is. One should base their own ideas on personal experience. And cruising the web is no substitute for first hand knowledge and experience.

NAHBS was started as and still is a private entity owned by an entrepreneur. I've exhibited all 10 years and while nothing is perfect, I was never given the impression that it was a collective, not for profit or anything otherwise. As a small business owner myself I couldn't imagine someone publicly trying to kick me out of my own house.

[rounder]

It occurred to me that while many folks are saying NAHBS is on the decline, on its way out, won't last another year. I'd say they are basing this primarily on either their dislike for Don(axe to grind can be seen right here in this thread) and his ways or the lower numbers of attendees in the last 2-3 years.

Well fact is just because it has not grown beyond the peak attendee years doesn't mean it is on its way out. The largest attendance was Portland but in 10 years i'd say that the highest quality attendance has been in just the last 3 years. And this makes sense to me.

Seems the show is settling into its own and could run mostly as is for quite some time. And probably will if it is not destroyed by those who intentionally seek to take it out. As stated, from my seat the last 3 years had the highest quality attendance. It just may be that while numbers are down and builders come and go, the longer the show runs the more the ideal people who we(builders) need to attend eventually seek it out.

I understand that not everyone wants to attend or display. There are many valid reasons and that is each persons prerogative. But I'd caution those listening to try and filter out comments that simply seek to poison the show image for what it is. One should base their own ideas on personal experience. And cruising the web is no substitute for first hand knowledge and experience.

NAHBS was started as and still is a private entity owned by an entrepreneur. I've exhibited all 10 years and while nothing is perfect, I was never given the impression that it was a collective, not for profit or anything otherwise. As a small business owner myself I couldn't imagine someone publicly trying to kick me out of my own house.

I went to the show when it was in Richmond...about 300-400 round trip miles. I like bikes and just went to see what it was all about. I saw every bike at least twice and met many of the builders. Met a builder who was cool and whose bikes I liked best and bought one. I was super satisfied and bought another one. I would have never bought a bike from him if he had not been there and displayed at the show. On the other hand, he was a new private builder and probably needed to be at NAHBS so that people would know who he was and what he does.

[fuzzalow]

Or because they are in some disagreement with Don and/or his philosophies. This is a big and growing group (that I am the unofficial president of) that adds new disgruntled members all the time.

I have heard grumblings for many years about Don and his autocratic mode of NAHMBS governance. Fair and equitable on his part or not, he implemented the idea and took the risk in doing so. And that makes him king.

I can understand and sympathize with the frame builder's view, if I have this point correct, that the frame builder's are the true marquee value in the show and not the draw of Don's marketing and promotion of NAHBS as a franchise. From this grounding it is an easy leap to view the relationship as parasitic. The marketing budget for a builder is hung to a product that doesn't scale so of course it hurts.

If there is any fault in the current structure, it is that the relationship lacks the alignment of economic benefit between NAHBS and the frame builders. The model is strictly trade show and not art gallery. And without turning the world upside-down, that is likely how it will remain. The bike world is too fractured to make a single channel for purchasing custom bikes feasible. This fracture amongst a large cross section of builders is also the flaw that prevents effective marketing to a singular identity, which Don correctly identified and co-opted into NAHBS.

I’m on Don’s naughty list so don't attend NAHBS. In a perfect world there would be a non-profit framebuilders collective or guild that would put on a show that reflected the actual interests of the builders themselves.

So it ultimately comes down to the money. Somebody always pays.

Seems the show is settling into its own and could run mostly as is for quite some time. And probably will if it is not destroyed by those who intentionally seek to take it out.

No, I don't think that will happen, re: destroyed. That is the petulance and clash of egos at play over a priorities and control issue. NAHBS will morph faster than a splintered disgruntled band of builders can inflict damage. IMO the most threatening development to NAHBS is what Mr. Fattic said above - organize a competitive show with a more egalitarian cost structure to builders. Credit me with the show title "Band of Builders". :)

BTW, my use of Dario in the OP was not to clone and make more Dario's. He was used as a metaphor for the unconstrained independent builder and also to humanize the narrative of the article.

Again, my thanks to the builders who have chimed in. I am not in the industry which makes me a civilian. And I am fascinated by the goings-on behind the scenes and the gossip just as any outsider would be.

[fuzzalow]

You're in good company.

Um, weren't all those guys (gulp) banned!?!?

[PaMtbRider]

... I've exhibited all 10 years and while nothing is perfect...

That must put you in a very exclusive club. Any idea how many other builders can make that same claim?

[cmg]

went to the austin show a couple of years ago. talked to strong, della santa, got to see Pergorotti treated like a rock star (my opinion) and ben serotta in the back ground, cool event. saw new products looking for funding. been fortunate to have 4 customs made, all the builders were selected from the NAHBS roster. and that's the real value of the show, to create awarness. i think it's a cool event, internal politics aside.

[markie]

My impression of NAHBS was somewhat disappointing, it seemed a show in transition. A few years ago it was as if anyone that could hang up a shingle could call themselves a builder. I saw only one bike with a beer motif and I'd guess it was a leftover from the shows during the height of the beer-bike craze. I can make an admittedly goofy analogy of NAHBS to the American Idol TV franchise: there are not really very many good singers in the world despite the TV shows premise that they will find them (there are none to be found). IMO there aren't that many world class bike builders either - the good ones are the ones that usually move their craft forwards.

I have been thinking about this all day. It has been bothering me, a lot. I guess to me bikes transcend being mere works of art by being something useful. Does the bike I ride have to be built by a world-class builder? One who is approved by the (forum) cognoscenti? Or does the bike I ride have to get me to work or around the woods or help me explore my local environment? If the bike can fit me, or moreover be designed for me to fill some niche that regular bike-companies inadequately fulfill does that not justify the custom bike business more than some fancy paint and some ornate lugs?

What I want to know is what makes a "world class builder"? I personally would rather have a Hunter or a Black Cat than a Pegoretti. Those other guys are world class builders to me. Just because their main output is not road-race frames does that diminish their skill or talent in your eyes?

[dave thompson]

Um, weren't all those guys (gulp) banned!?!?

Not that they were banned, just that they were interesting.

[R2D2]

I have been thinking about this all day. It has been bothering me, a lot. I guess to me bikes transcend being mere works of art by being something useful. Does the bike I ride have to be built by a world-class builder? One who is approved by the (forum) cognoscenti? Or does the bike I ride have to get me to work or around the woods or help me explore my local environment? If the bike can fit me, or moreover be designed for me to fill some niche that regular bike-companies inadequately fulfill does that not justify the custom bike business more than some fancy paint and some ornate lugs?

What I want to know is what makes a "world class builder"? I personally would rather have a Hunter or a Black Cat than a Pegoretti. Those other guys are world class builders to me. Just because their main output is not road-race frames does that diminish their skill or talent in your eyes?

Dario's bikes did win the TDF at one time or another so I would not classify them as "mere works of art". But like everything else there's a point of diminishing returns and if an off the peg bike works for you , then that's all you need.

[markie]

Dario's bikes did win the TDF at one time or another so I would not classify them as "mere works of art". But like everything else there's a point of diminishing returns and if an off the peg bike works for you , then that's all you need.

I guess it has been a while since a Pegoretti or a Della Santa was under a race winner. I would no more expect a carpenter to turn up with a handsaw than I would expect a tour rider to ride a Pegoretti or a Della Santa.

But, I think there are a lot of great builders out there and the "world class" tag is easy to bandy about, but there is more to life and bikes than road racing.

[R2D2]

I guess it has been a while since a Pegoretti or a Della Santa was under a race winner. I would no more expect a carpenter to turn up with a handsaw than I would expect a tour rider to ride a Pegoretti or a Della Santa.

But, I think there are a lot of great builders out there and the "world class" tag is easy to bandy about, but there is more to life and bikes than road racing.

You are free to think what you want.
I would not dismiss their experience as a builder as a "mere work of art"

[markie]

I think we have gotten at cross-purposes here.

I love my handmade bikes. Even though they come from builders that the original poster probably does not deem world class. (Although I did go to NAHBS once and felt the whole thing was a bit too much : ) )

[bironi]

I think we have gotten at cross-purposes here.

I love my handmade bikes. Even though they come from builders that the original poster probably does not deem world class. (Although I did go to NAHBS once and felt the whole thing was a bit too much : ) )

I went to NAHBS once and felt the whole thing was much too much. I spent a couple hours then went for a ride and beers. I just don't like crowds and fluorescent lighting.

[fuzzalow]

I have been thinking about this all day. It has been bothering me, a lot. I guess to me bikes transcend being mere works of art by being something useful. Does the bike I ride have to be built by a world-class builder? One who is approved by the (forum) cognoscenti? Or does the bike I ride have to get me to work or around the woods or help me explore my local environment? If the bike can fit me, or moreover be designed for me to fill some niche that regular bike-companies inadequately fulfill does that not justify the custom bike business more than some fancy paint and some ornate lugs?

What I want to know is what makes a "world class builder"? I personally would rather have a Hunter or a Black Cat than a Pegoretti. Those other guys are world class builders to me. Just because their main output is not road-race frames does that diminish their skill or talent in your eyes?

Hello. On some topics that might be interesting to explore in more than a cursory manner, I certainly try to frame a discussion that invites all views to chime in. There is nothing I could say to anyone of this forum, or to you, that is worthy of your bother. Please know that provocation is not my intent and I regret eliciting any response that creates or harbors ill feelings.

NAHBS had succumbed to excess during past years with an over emphasis and glorification of show bikes that were more paeans to the art world than to the bike world. In that lay the parallel of NAHBS with Gagosian. Coupled with the faux-competition implicit with the presentation of awards, there was an arms race in show bikes that IMO was more representative of man-hours than artistic aesthetic.

Making art is hard and is not a talent, drive, vision, skill or taste that is handed out to everybody at birth. Hence my remark that there are very few world class builders just as there are relatively few universally esteemed artists in the art world. And by extension, for NAHBS to continue down this path of escalating art-bike razzle dazzle was unsustainable and would inevitably open itself to farce. The talent pool for builders wasn't deep enough to reinvigorate the show with new art works every year - that was an impossibility.

And although the bikes I saw in 2014 have retrenched from those excesses, NAHBS will always bring out a builder's best work simply by virtue of the builder's commitment to exhibit and the attending crowds desire to be wowed. NAHBS by natural accord moved away from the influence of art-as-bicycle back to bicycle-as-bicycle. Fads die from their own excesses. In refocusing the emphasis on the bike and less emphasis on the art, the crazy intangible of artistic aesthetic is removed and the pure number of world class builders, as bicycle specialists, should increase. Far easier to design and construct a good bike than it is to make good or great art. But the bell curve still governs human qualities and the world class bike builders will still number to the elite minority in their chosen craft.

As to what makes world class, that can't be distilled down to a checklist of attributes and qualities. I view the appellation of world class as a level and a consistency evident in a major portion of a builder's body of work that stands apart from those seen by his/her contemporaries. I believe that there are human qualities and talents inherent to persons that craft at, for want of a better term, world class levels that has them functioning at a different and superior level from their contemporaries. They are just different. And in most cases, their superiority is recognized and acknowledged by both their clients and peers.

I have a different view of the value of time spent in pursuit of excellence in developing a person's craft or artisanship. I do not agree with Malcolm Gladwell's oft cited general threshold of 10,000 hours as an appropriate prerequisite to greatness. I believe good to great artists and yes, bike builders, develop to their own accelerated curve that functions independently of repetition. Gladwell's book used the example of the Beatles as illustrative of his 10,000 hours guideline - their countless hours (i.e. hard days night) working the Hamburg club scene to help make them excellent. IMO this is a fallacy because there is no repetition that would be capable of inspiring the creative genius that Lennon & McCartney would eventually produce consistently from Rubber Soul and onwards. All the time spent in repetition was to ingrain the rudiments of the rules and structures that could be bent, recast or ignored by their own creative processes later on. And so it is the same I believe with world class bike builders even with their narrower focus on the constrained canvas of the bicycle frame. Hey, 12 musical notes, 11 frame tubes, same thing.

A bicycle, like art, is a useless frivolity if it cannot be enjoyed. And in that simple reality is the great equalizer that renders all critiques, judgments and prestige as moot. What your Hunter or Black Cat means to you is far more real than the conceptual rigmarole in discussions of artistic expression, personal taste and preference. Bikes can and do exist on many different levels so it is unfair to deny that those subtleties and gradients exist - but discussions of this nature are never intended as disparagement. You may or may not find it worthwhile to see things in a different light at different points in life than you do now. That's completely up to you and what you want. Either way, I will trust in your good sense to enjoy the ride. And riding gets us all out of this mind game of thoughts and words and into the breeze with heart, legs and lungs - The reason why we are all here.

P.S. I ask your forbearance about the length of this post. I jotted this down in pieces as notes in the iPad and it just kept going. Sorry.

[fuzzalow]

Not that they were banned, just that they were interesting.

Oh.

Then thank you for that and forgive me my paranoia.

[Joachim]

Oh.

Then thank you for that and forgive me my paranoia.

They were also disliked by many. Not saying you are, but they were banned for a reason (or reasons).

[ergott]

I think Frank the Welder is the North East equivalent to Pegoretti in some ways. He's built a ton of bikes, (many under other names) and knows how to really put the tubes together. He doesn't add the artistic flair that only Dario can do, but for a rock solid road bike, he has few equals.

NAHBS is a niche in a niche market. It's great that the handmade bike market is big enough to support a show like that and still not have most of the builders out there fit through the doors.

It's a great point in time to be into bikes.

[weisan]

Fuzza-pal, in less than 10 words, how would you summarize your thoughts? :p

[fuzzalow]

Fuzza-pal, in less than 10 words, how would you summarize your thoughts? :p

HaHa! Yes you are so right about that, I dunno when to shut up!

BTW and this is not to get into politics in any way - if you have ever attended a speech given by Bill Clinton. The guy is one intelligent mofo. He finishes the business of the speech he was supposed to deliver and talks extemporaneously about anything else - with depth, comprehensiveness, facts & figures. All without notes or a cheat sheet. He will talk your ear off.

I could summarize to 10 words too. I choose not to because I believe there are people on this forum that like to read and are looking for depth that can't work with stuff the fits on a bumper sticker.

[happycampyer]

What's interesting to me about this discussion is that the show originally aspired—or at least it was the desire of some of the original exhibitors—to be neither an art show nor a trade show. The NAHBS post mortems all seem to blur into one after a while, but my recollection is that, as the show grew in popularity, there was a general concern that the bikes on display were becoming objets d'art and the booths mini art installations—it seems from the outside looking it at least that that trend has diminished, possibly because of the expense of those efforts without any meaningful roi. The proliferation of equipment vendors (groupsets, wheels, etc.) may give the show more of a trade-show feel, but their presence may be necessary to help cover (some of) the costs of the show as the show grows in size and cost.

I was hoping to make it to CLT this year but conflicts prevented it. A show in the NE would be great (Providence, perhaps?), but I won't hold my breath. In the meantime, I feel fortunate that between the folks that I ride with and Signature Cycles' never-ending stream of custom bikes (and not just of Signature's brands), it's like a mini NAHBS every weekend. Probably the closest thing to NAHBS (and in many ways better because the bikes are actually being ridden, and there are no awards) is D2R2—and many of the NE builders are there as well.

[Busstuf]

I plan to go to Louisville next year,just to check it out!

[Waldo]

As framebuilders we have benefited from Don starting NAHBS and raising awareness in the general riding public the advantages and beauty of what a custom frame can really be. Most magazines – which are essentially vehicles to make a profit for their owners – don’t give much press to non-advertisers without a compelling reason. NAHBS has allowed them to bring attention to our craft, I’m a painter and builder but primarily a teacher of framebuilding classes and many of my students were inspired to try building themselves by either attending NAHBS or seeing pictures online or in print. However as the show has matured so has our understanding of its benefits vs costs to us builders. Many of my colleagues have now decided from their past experience that it just isn’t worth it for them to spend all that money and effort to show outside of their regional area. Or because they are in some disagreement with Don and/or his philosophies. This is a big and growing group (that I am the unofficial president of) that adds new disgruntled members all the time. I predict (which I have for years on Paceline before) that it will continue to move towards being more a bicycle product show. NAHBS is a profit making business for Don and as small framebuilders drop away for one reason or another (from the limited supply pool), their booth space will be filled by other somehow bicycle related businesses.


And we, discerning members of cycling general public, sadly, are the worse for it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sjbraun]

I don't think NAHBS ever aspired to this:

From the Gagosian website: Taryn Simon's artistic medium consists of three integrated elements: photography, text, and graphic design. Her works demonstrate the impossibility of absolute understanding and investigate the space between text and image, where disorientation occurs and ambiguity reigns.
Simon's Birds of the West Indies (2013-14) is a two-part body of work, whose title is taken from the definitive taxonomy of the same name by the American ornithologist James Bond. Ian Fleming, an active bird watcher, appropriated the author's name for his novels' now well-known protagonist. This co-opting of a name was the first in a series of substitutions and replacements that would become central to the construction of the Bond narrative. The first element of the work is a photographic inventory of the women, weapons and vehicles of James Bond films made over the past fifty years. The images comprise an index of interchangeable variables used in the production of fantasy. Testing the seductive surfaces of popular cinema, Simon continues her artistic process of revealing the hidden infrastructures of cultural constructs. In the second element of the work, Simon casts herself as the ornithologist James Bond, identifying, photographing, and classifying all the birds that appear within the 24 films comprising the James Bond franchise. The result is a taxonomy of birds not unlike the original Birds of the West Indies. In this case, the birds are categorized by locations both actual and fictional: Switzerland, Afghanistan, North Korea, as well as the mythical settings of Bond's missions, such as the Republic of Isthmus and SPECTRE Island. Simon's discoveries often occupy a liminal space between reality and fiction; they are confined within the fictional space of the James Bond universe and yet wholly separate from it.

[oldpotatoe]

I plan to go to Louisville next year,just to check it out!

Regardless of how it may be (d)evolving, I think it's worth a look. Went to the one in Portland...don't see the need for another tho...