23 mm gone forever

[rounder]

Just wondering. I have liked 23 mm tires for awhile. It seems like now everyone is dumping them for fatter tires. I understand the part that fatter tires grab better with lower pressure. Do the 23s not work anymore. Are 25+ that much better. Thanks.

[zmudshark]

Only if the roads in America continue to degrade.

[donevwil]

Only if the roads in America continue to degrade.

Ha, I was going to write the same thing. I raced and trained on 23s so many years ago at 200-210 lbs and seldom had a flat or issue of any kind. I've since moved on to 28s and 32s due both to my current riding style and, more significantly, the degradation of the roads where I live. Nothing wrong with 23s in the right environment.

[illuminaught]

23mm on 23mm rims is good for me... on brutal roads with my backpack on the commute and racing...

[bluesea]

Not as long as there are still F1 forks in use, and that will be a long long time.

[gomango]

Only if the roads in America continue to degrade.

Our roads stink big time in the Twin Cities. A "23" is going away fast for me.

[thirdgenbird]

I'm going 25s but that doesn't change how great veloflex 23s feel on smooth blacktop :)

[jtakeda]

I'm held back by the clearance on my wound up. Wish I could squeeze a 25 in there.

[gomango]

I'm going 25s but that doesn't change how great veloflex 23s feel on smooth blacktop :)

Agreed, great tires.

Masters in the "25" sizes were a simple change, so I've tried that experiment.

I'm also going to try Grand Bois Cerf 26s for grins this season on the Kvale and Hollands when these wear out.

[Chrissy]

Does it seem like there is a trend toward wider rims as well?

[oliver1850]

I rode 95 miles Sunday on some very rough, broken up roads. Serotta CSI with Protons and Panaracer 20s. I'm sure it would have been nicer over the rough stuff with 28s, but I didn't have any lingering effects post ride: shouldler, neck, butt soreness etc. It was a hard ride for me from an effort standpoint, but I don't have the impression I'd have felt better afterwards had I been on 23s, 25s, or 28s. The effort had more to do with wind and temperature. I rode 4 or 5 miles of gravel on the way home by accident, and distinctly remember hitting a large something with the front wheel (probably a piece of pavement kicked up by a snowplow) that I did not see on one of the smoothest paved sections I rode. My tire worries during the ride were about flats. I have no idea whether I'd have covered the same route in the same amount of time with wider tires, but I don't feel that the 20s were a detriment in any way, other than worrying about flatting. If I'd flatted, I would have cursed them and lamented that I didn't take the time to switch to wheels with fatter tires.

[ultraman6970]

23 won't die, at least in tubulars it wont.

[oldpotatoe]

Just wondering. I have liked 23 mm tires for awhile. It seems like now everyone is dumping them for fatter tires. I understand the part that fatter tires grab better with lower pressure. Do the 23s not work anymore. Are 25+ that much better. Thanks.

yes and 'that' much better for 2mm? Donno..no payback for a fatter tire if it fits in your frame..but how many 20mm tires do you see?

I had a 23mm front and 25mm rear, went to a 25mm front..could I tell? Nope.

[William]

I had a 23mm front and 25mm rear, went to a 25mm front..could I tell? Nope.

I used to race that set up. For training I went to 28's many moons ago. Eventually I quit doing that as well. The only difference was that I got fewer flats. I smoked the same people I was smoking before, and was competitive with the same people I was competitive with before. I like getting fewer flats.:)






William

[commonguy001]

Our roads stink big time in the Twin Cities. A "23" is going away fast for me.

I'm with gomango, we have bad roads and this spring looks to be worse than normal.

I only have one bike that I'm limited to 23s on (an old Titus Ti FCR), everything else can fit at least a 32mm tire. As I don't race I mostly run tires that measures out at 27mm or larger. I don't think they've slowed me down but has added some comfort.

Side note to gomango - I've got an orange La Cruz too, bought it from GP on Grand when they first came out. It's only hanging as a frame right now but I've really enjoyed that bike.

[druptight]

I went to 25's on my road bike and 28's on my commuter. I do notice that the roads feel a little smoother, but aside from that - I've noticed no other real differences.

[redir]

Some 23's are as big as some 25's it seems. I've always gone with 25's unless I get good deals on tubulars in 23.

If anyone hates 23's so bad let me know I'll take them :)

[zap]

yes and 'that' much better for 2mm? Donno..no payback for a fatter tire if it fits in your frame..but how many 20mm tires do you see?

I had a 23mm front and 25mm rear, went to a 25mm front..could I tell? Nope.

Three in casa zap and one 18.

Been riding the 18 front (old inventory) recently (have not taken the time to replace a worn Conti tubular)………..it's fast but largely due to more aero rim. The 18 cuts like a knife on dirt/gravel roads so really crappy for that app.

Paved country roads in Merryland and Virginia are pretty smooth.

[tmf]

I rode all last year with 25 in the back and a 23 up front. I still have a few more new 23 tires, so I'll probably keep it that way through this year. I plan to get 25's when I buy new tires from now on, unless it's a deal that's too good to pass up.

Right now, the roads are torn up and the potholes are so bad I would put 27-28's on if I had them.

[Climb01742]

same here. the crap condition of our roads is what's driving me to explore fatter tires.

[bking]

haven't purchased a 23 in a couple years and I can tell the difference. And the volume of air in a 25 is greater than the 2mm in size implies. Better ride, better rolling resistance, fewer flats, and i don't time trial anyway.

[bobswire]

The roads have gotten better in the last few years, I think I'll go back to 23's.:banana:

[tiretrax]

Bicycle Quarterly had a great article recently on tire width. There is less rolling resistance and the possibility of lower pressures due to the increased volume, making for a more efficient and comfortable ride. 25 is the new 23, but 28 is sexier.

[Coluber42]

I've used 25mm tires on my long distance bike for years. I might have room for up to 28's, but my favorite tire doesn't come bigger than 25mm. I don't tend to lose a whole lot of sleep over it.

While our roads have gotten abysmal (I mean, more abysmal than usual) this winter, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that's not actually that high on my list of reasons to change tires. Potholes suck, and wider tires might help you avoid pinch flats if you hit them, but even with wider tires than I could ever fit on my frame, I'd still rather ride around than through them. Seriously, some of those are so big you could lose a jeep in there and have to send in a helicopter to find it. Maybe that's where that Malaysian flight wound up.

However, pavement that's just rough to start with would be a good reason, IMHO. The size of the bumps that make chip seal different from smooth asphalt are in the range where a wider, softer tire can absorb them where a skinnier, harder tire can't.

Of course the irony is that in Germany where I spent a couple of years, the roads are typically paved with a chip seal that is rougher than the smooth asphalt they use in the US, but most of the brevet riders used 23mm tires and standard road or cross bikes, mostly aluminum, etc. They thought it was unusual that I used a steel frame and 25mm tires. What I found ironic about it was that the texture of the pavement was exactly in the range where a 23mm tire will buzz and vibrate and a 25mm tire is smooth. And you can fit 25's in a lot of road frames that are made for skinny tires. So go figure.

But that was a few years ago... maybe the trend toward fatter tires has made its way over there since?

[Shortsocks]

I put on 25's on my road bike and track bike....went back to 23. Don't know why but it felt "sluggish" to me. Honestly road conditions have never bothered me, other than chip seal, I like being able to feel the road. I sold my 25's to a heavier rider locally and never looked back. Maybe it's a weight thing, I'm fairly light, or maybe it's just a personal preference. Don't know.

[Seramount]

for me, 23s have worked fine for tens of thousands of miles.

simply not intrigued by the promise of a more 'comfortable' ride from using 25s.

sounds like something old guys would be interested in...

smirk.

[tuscanyswe]

I still intend to have 23s on my go fast bike. They may not be faster but they do feel faster and thats pretty much the feeling i want when im on that bike.

I have another bike with 30 and it certainly dont feel slow. Its a much more comfy ride and that to my mind translates somewhat into not going as fast. Its not always a bad feeling to feel every pebble out there imo. Your own weight is weirdly often left out of the discussion. Id think 23s will feel very different to someone 150 vs someone who is 200 lbs +

[Shortsocks]

. Id think 23s will feel very different to someone 150 vs someone who is 200 lbs +

That's what I think too. I'm 138 and I notice that 25s seem to be a bigger choice on heavier riders. But id like to read more on weight vs tire width. Or maybe it has to so with the tire pressure?

[cash05458]

23's are a great size...hell, I still ride 20mm conti 4000's when I can get em at right price...to each their own right...? the one time I put a 25 on I just didnt like it...and that was just the back wheel...just seemed to wide to me....for myself anyhow...

[beeatnik]

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/tire-clearance-issue-falz-record-challenge-36490.html

[Dustin]

23s are hideous, stupid things that should be given a quick death.

But I don't have any strong feelings about it.

[earlfoss]

I rode 22's and 23's forever and thought the mania surrounding 25's was b.s. until I glued up a set and raced them for myself. I get better cornering and ride from the slightly bigger tires without a loss in speed. Yay!

[unterhausen]

I mostly ride 25's on the road for the last few years. I might be switching to 650b since Jan Heine is keeping nice tires in that size available. I do the same kind of riding he does, and sometimes in the middle of the night I feel stupid hitting potholes with my skinny little tires.

[Stephen2014]

I always thought rider's weight would compress 23s more and so create more drag. But whatever the science it's 28 minimum for me.

[rounder]

Good thread. I read all 10 pages. Fat tires give you pleasure if they fit. The builders want you to ride the bikes as they were intended. So far am happy with what I have...going with the 23s.

[veggieburger]

I put on 25's on my road bike and track bike....went back to 23. Don't know why but it felt "sluggish" to me. Honestly road conditions have never bothered me, other than chip seal, I like being able to feel the road. I sold my 25's to a heavier rider locally and never looked back. Maybe it's a weight thing, I'm fairly light, or maybe it's just a personal preference. Don't know.

I went from a skinny 23 Kevlar bead to a fat 32 wire, and that was very noticeable, both in weight and handling. But the roads here are junk right now, and you even hit the odd patch of sneaky ice. I'll bust out the 23s in the summer, but for now it's the heavy rubber. I need to push the extra weight, hopefully burn a little of this hibernation fat...

[Tony]

Going from 19mm to 23, 24mm rims has made the big difference for me, 23s feel better, look bigger, ride and corner better due to the added volume and tire profile. Gone forever for me are 19mm rims.

[nebraskacycling]

Dang I guess I need to throw out my old 19s now...

[christian]

I'm riding 25mm Vittoria tubs on my Colnago now. Next two pair I'm going to glue on are gumwall Vittoria 23mm tubs. Before the 25s I ran 22mm Contis.

My sense - they all work perfectly fine for the roads I ride. But obviously, the gumwalls will be the bestest. Because they're gumwalls.

[p nut]

I've been on 23's for years. Last year, bought some 32's, but wouldn't clear my frame. Bought some 28's this year and I do like them for the smoothness. I can't feel too much difference in weight, so I'm happy so far. Next time, though, I may go for 25's (Rubino Pro or GP4).

[palincss]

yes and 'that' much better for 2mm?


For an identical wheel loading, you can use around 15 psi less pressure for the 25 than the 23.

[palincss]

Some 23's are as big as some 25's it seems. I've always gone with 25's unless I get good deals on tubulars in 23.


Some tires marked 25mm are actually 23mm or narrower, while others that are marked 23mm are wider than 25mm. Similarly, a Challenge Parigi Roubaix marked 27mm is wider than a "raised-rib" style 32mm Panaracer Pasela.

[oldpotatoe]

For an identical wheel loading, you can use around 15 psi less pressure for the 25 than the 23.

I use 15psi less anyway.....I know there are charts and graphs and formulas but for a bike tire, combined weight of maybe 200-220 pounds or so trundling along at 16-18 mph..small differences in air pressure not that big of a difference, IMHO..all things considered.

Once again, if you can fit 28c in there, sure, no payback..