Terraplane seatstays at NAHBS?

[Keith A]

I was browsing through some of the pictures from NAHBS and saw what looks similar to DK's Terraplane seatstays on Groovy's mountain bike...

http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2014/03/17/2/groovy_29_full_670.jpg

[BumbleBeeDave]

That top tube looks kinda like a Roubaix to me . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

[David Kirk]

Sincerest form of flattery?

dave

[JAGI410]

Sincerest form of flattery?

dave

Kirk seat stays, Waltworks seat tube, Coconino top tube, Peacock Groove fancy paint? Besides the handlebars, which are awesome, nothing excited me about that bike. Seems like an odd choice to bring to NAHBS.

[Cat3roadracer]

The Playskool version of a Kirk. No real comparison there.

[EricEstlund]

Dave is a bud, but lets not get overly carried away. That bike may not be everyone's cup of tea, but Rody is a hell of a nice guy and a very, very talented frame builder and fabricator. Not all curves a Terraplane make, which doesn't take away from either product.

[rwsaunders]

Whether one likes the details of this particular bike or not, Rody over at Groovy Cycleworks has been working the bench for quite a long time. He has a pretty solid reputation as a framebuilder and he has a fairly long queue list, especially among the Mtb crowd.

[bicycletricycle]

Dave was not the first one to put some extra bends in the stays and I'm sure he won't be the last.


I don't know if anyone knows who the first person to do this sort of thing was.

Hetchins, ritchey plexus, schwinn beach cruisers :)

[EricEstlund]

1839- the first pedals affixed to a hobby horse had curved stays.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/static/v1.0/ic/iclarge/historyworld-webapp/user/s/siobhanratchford/object/vtsj5jCyQc2KPjBnJ6g0iw/asset/1

[happycampyer]

1839- the first pedals affixed to a hobby horse had curved stays.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/static/v1.0/ic/iclarge/historyworld-webapp/user/s/siobhanratchford/object/vtsj5jCyQc2KPjBnJ6g0iw/asset/1that wooden bicycle frame would look right at home at NAHBS! :)

[David Kirk]

Dave is a bud, but lets not get overly carried away. That bike may not be everyone's cup of tea, but Rody is a hell of a nice guy and a very, very talented frame builder and fabricator. Not all curves a Terraplane make, which doesn't take away from either product.

I agree.......I don't in any way see this as a copy of the Terraplane. The bends are very different and will do different things.

I've seen a few blatant Terraplane copies and this isn't one of them.

Dave

[Keith A]

Dave - so what would these bends do in comparison to your Terraplane stays?

[Admiral Ackbar]

i like that bike better than most everything else I've seen from nahbs this year

[zetroc]

Rody is a great guy, super nice, with tons of integrity. One of the best frame builder out there, if anyone wants my opinion. A consummate professional.

[oldpotatoe]

I agree.......I don't in any way see this as a copy of the Terraplane. The bends are very different and will do different things.

I've seen a few blatant Terraplane copies and this isn't one of them.

Dave

Do you own 'Terraplane', the design, the name?

[David Kirk]

Dave - so what would these bends do in comparison to your Terraplane stays?


Hey -

The Terraplane stays have two bends of the same radius and duration and these allow for the stay to compress end to end with most of the action taking place over the middle 2/3 of the stay. The radius and duration of the bends are designed to work with the stiffness of the chainstays to give a certain amount of movement. Technobable I know but I can't think of a better way to say it.

I suspect that the stays on the other bike will behave differently and given the fact that they are on a mountain bike with big soft tires they might not move much or at all. The curved stays act as a spring........a very stiff spring but a spring nonetheless. When you take that stiff spring and put it on top of a soft spring (mountain bike tire) the soft spring will do most of the work and the stiff spring may not move much or at all.

It would be interesting to hear if they have done any testing to see what kind of movement they get out of their stay arrangement. Fun stuff to think about.

dave

[Keith A]

Dave -- Thanks for the informative reply.

[David Kirk]

Do you own 'Terraplane', the design, the name?

Hey Mr. Potato -

No.........I own neither the shape nor the name. I looked into rights to the name but it turns out it's been widely used since the name was made up for the Hudson Terraplane car way back in the day. It might even predate that. I know there are backpacks and skateboards and a musical band that use the name and to try to control it seemed like a waste of money and time.

As for the shape.........no I don't own it and others could do it I suppose. Working out the technical details to bend a double taper, heat treated, thin wall tube into that shape is the usual stumbling block. The bigger reason for others not doing it might be that it's not cool to use other's designs. There have been a few cases where others have done blatant aesthetic copies of my work and they quickly dropped them due to the negative reaction coming from the market at large..............no one likes to be 'that guy'........the one who is seen as copying the work of another. It's a small business we are all in and generally folks are cool and respectful - I like that a lot. There's a line from one of my favorite movies (Moonstruck with Cher and Nicolas Cage) that might fit - "don't ····· where you eat".

I'll be the first to say that there are only so many ways to hook together and shape the limited number of tubes on a bicycle and in time they get used, reused, and recycled. That said certain designs become associated with a given person and therefore end up being considered to be theres. I think of the TdF lugs that Kelly Bedford originally designed for the Serotta team bikes and how wonderful they are. I think everyone would love to just copy them but they don't because they respect the fact that it's not their work and they don't want to be the guy that used another's work. The TdF lugs are Kelly's so everyone respects that and that's a good thing.

Thanks for asking -

dave