Training on a Time budget

[mdeeds71]

Being in the same career as Saab and finding time to be very precious and limited...I currently train for my racing season using HR and different "zones" based upon a percieved and limited test on LT.

My question is training with a powermeter going to make the time I train/ride (since it is for enoyment afterall) more productive...

I know some are going to say just get more time on the bike...but I am wanting to specify the quality and quantity of rides more directly.

Also what is the costs that the forum has been seeing for the SRM vs Powertap vs Ergomo...and your preferences...want to keep the wires to a minimum and use campy.

[Climb01742]

based on my experience, watts is more precise, more objective, less subjective. that "could" translate into more productive. a lot depends on you and your personality. are you a numbers guy? do you like having more data to analyze? would a more "scientific" approach appeal to you? if yes, then a power meter is a data bonanza. if not, then a power meter might not add a lot to your training.

i have mixed feelings about it. i dig the objectiveness of it. (though the truth sometimes hurts.) but i also dig the simplicity of using cadence and time to structure my workouts. but these reactions reflect my personality. i'd guess it might be the same for you.

as for which meter...SRMs are great but pricey. i've heard good things about the ergomo. if you'd dedicate one bike to have the meter, maybe an ergomo makes sense. if you'd like to switch between bikes, maybe a powertap makes more sense.

nutshell: if you're a numbers guy, try watts. if you're more of a "feel" guy, maybe stick with HR. everyone seems to agree that watts are more accurate than HR. beyond that it's more personal, i think.

[93legendti]

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-10877/conconi.htm

...may not be totally responsive to your post, but the article does talk about limited training time programs.

[Dude]

typically, HR was a good method five years ago. Watts is the best way to do it as you are able to measure exactly what you are doing on the bike, not your body's reaction to it (i.e. Heart rate). There are too many variables that affect HR (caffeine, time of day, diet, sleep deprived etc) to really use it, it is better than nothing but not as good as watts. Plus with wattage, over the course of a season its not going to change. It will always be an apples to apples comparison. As the season progresses, your HR will fluctuate (what your HR is in one zone in June will be different than November).

Regards to training time, you want quality over quantity. Depending on the racing you are doing (if at all) road races, crits, hill climbs, mtn bike racing will determine the amount of time you need to train. If you are doing 20 mile crits, there is no sense in going out for 3 hour rides. YOu can easily train for a crit in 1-1.5 hours a day. That includes stretching and warmup. If you are doing 200km road races than you won't have enough time to train. A good rule of thumb is you can train up to about 75% of the time of the event and still be fine.

I don't specifically know what your goals are but hopefully that helps for now.

[Dr. Doofus]

powermeter=tool

hrm=tool

perceived exertion=tool

doof says its good to use the powermeter on interval days, but also go by hr for 1-2 days each week...and pe 1 day a week. you don't look at numbers during a race. you need to do a hardbubbarubba once a week (saturday race simulation/timed ints/group ride) with no gadgets other than a wristwatch, just to keep in tune with the signals from your body

[Dude]

piggybacking on what the oodf says, a good way of doing it is for endurance rides and longer easy days, go by heart rate. Any efforts above your LT hr zone you should use powermeter.

What i usually do for PE is, using my numbers, pay attention to my PE so I can have it dialed it come race day. And, by default my group rides I never look at my numbers until the end just because I am so focused on everything else. the last thing i want to do is get caught up in a crash because I was looking at my computer (been there, done that, sucks).

[Fixed]

bro anyone read how valverde trains in the feb cycle sport ? ...by feel
cheers :beer:

[SManning]

Being in the same career as Saab and finding time to be very precious and limited...I currently train for my racing season using HR and different "zones" based upon a percieved and limited test on LT.

My question is training with a powermeter going to make the time I train/ride (since it is for enoyment afterall) more productive...

I know some are going to say just get more time on the bike...but I am wanting to specify the quality and quantity of rides more directly.

Also what is the costs that the forum has been seeing for the SRM vs Powertap vs Ergomo...and your preferences...want to keep the wires to a minimum and use campy.

In my personal experience, I found that my powertap made my training more productive when my time was limited. My husband had surgery last spring, so my training time was minimized due to needing to take care of him in the evenings. I would have a total of 8-9 hours a week to ride my bike; originally I was training 10-12 hours a week. Since time on the bike was so precious, every minute had to count. During the 1 1/2 months that I needed to cut back, I was able to improve on my wattage gains and keep my race fitness. Originally, my coach and I thought I would do well to maintain the fitness I had gained. I believe that having the powertap as a training tool along with structured workouts and a great coach, really helped me save my race season.

I own a Powertap pro so I purchased a conversion cassette to work with my Campy and that worked well for me. The next level on the powertap accepts a Campy cassette.

Sarah

[Hysbrian]

Or a 9spd. I'm with doof though...even though I've never even used a power meter and have no idea what 100 or 400 watts feels like...go figure.

[Argos]

Fixed,

I think Savodelli said the same thing.... That was awesome.. They're doing all this $hit ole' school.

They were, I guess, both saying they know their body better then the electronics. Probably not 100% accurate, but you can't argue with their success. That's like telling Boonen his bars are turned up to much!

[jerk]

Fixed,

I think Savodelli said the same thing.... That was awesome.. They're doing all this $hit ole' school.

They were, I guess, both saying they know their body better then the electronics. Probably not 100% accurate, but you can't argue with their success. That's like telling Boonen his bars are turned up to much!


boonen's bars are turned up to much.

jerk

[Argos]

boonen's bars are turned up to much.

jerk

You know it's like volley ball and I put that out there specifically setting you up to spike that!

[Dr. Doofus]

boonen's bars are turned up to much.

jerk


its too irresistable...why has no one posted this quote yet:

"These small frames they ride, small guys like Paulo Bettini with centimeters of seatpost sticking out. They aren't an improvement. The small frames are supposed to be for improved aerodynamics, but because the riders can't reach the bottom of their handlebars* to get low, they're no better off. The frame is aerodynamic, the rider isn't"

-- Rik Van Looy

* the drops on anatomic bars are usually so short as to be unusable. So, you put the "anatomic bend" at the same height where the drops *should* be, but then the hoods are too low, so you rotate them up....

the result is that your hands are where they would be if the stupid HT was 2cm longer and you were using round bars with the drops positioned the way god, eddy merkcx, and e-ritchie say you should....

someone asked why doof has 30mm of spacer on the ridley...its because he rides in the drops 60% of the time or more, and doesn't want his wrists banging the bars in a sprint...its the stupid integrated HS and low HT....

eventually, all us dinos who remember round bars will be gone and all bikes will look like Boonen's...ugly...ugly...ugly....


anyway

[Ken Lehner]

bro anyone read how valverde trains in the feb cycle sport ? ...by feel
cheers :beer:

Yet people like Armstrong, Leipheimer, Landis, Boonen, and many, many of the top cyclists train(ed) with power. More and more every year.

[Hysbrian]

Yet people like Armstrong, Leipheimer, Landis, Boonen, and many, many of the top cyclists train(ed) with power. More and more every year.

Yo- its not that training with power is bad, its just that for an average cyclists its a poor substitute for experience.

[Ken Lehner]

Yo- its not that training with power is bad, its just that for an average cyclists its a poor substitute for experience.

It would be better to gain "experience" while training with power, would it not? How much "experience" does an average cyclist have?

[Hysbrian]

It would be better to gain "experience" while training with power, would it not? How much "experience" does an average cyclist have?

Power is a great way to judge your gain in fitness, but if you have nothing to relate that to then you are kind of at a loss. If you only learn to train with power then you are missing out on some of the most importaint aspects of training. But that why people get a coach. You are paying for the experience that someone else has and their ablity to relate that to your situation.

[Dr. Doofus]

limited time?

1) A trainer. Doof has had the opportunity to learn from some good ones -- friel, starr, spinelli -- which is to say he had the opportunity, but maybe didn't learn nothin cause he's too thick-headed. Learn your body and how it responds. A year with your sensei. After that its up to you.

2) Powermeter: learn how to make every minute count.

3) Double up once a week, if your body can handle it. Example -- doof had three hours to train yesterday, but not time for a three-hour ride. So, do two specific workouts with adequate recovery in between -- you race twice in a day sometimes, so, yeah, you can do this if you manage the rest correctly. 2400 kjoules in two workouts and 75 minutes at tempo or higher will do the doof more good in USCF races this year than that 3 hour endurance ride. At this point spinelli will just shake his head...but doof knew his bod could take three short, specific workouts in two days, and did it. Doof thinking -- sometimes you race three times in two days. So, sometimes you do that in training, but keep the intensity reasonable.

[Ti Designs]

Yo- its not that training with power is bad, its just that for an average cyclists its a poor substitute for experience.


That goes way beyond post of the month, I think I'll have T shirts made with that printed on the front for my riders who can't see anything but what their PowerTap says. Last saturday the ride was getting around to a well known town line sprint, I was sitting on the wheel of one of the guys on the team I coach. Just before the little hill about 300 meters from the line a move goes on the outside. There was a hesitation in front of me, so I jumped around and made the split. The rider I coach was left behind. After the sprint I asked him what happened, he said he was above 400 watts for a while and couldn't sustain that output. I could care less about the watts, he missed the move. I then explained how in racing the first guy across the line is the winner. Every year I have a rider who doesn't listen to me, trains based 100% on power. Every year that same person tows the field around for a few laps and finishes dead last or close to it, and they still think they did well. This year I introduce a new function to the power meter, the button that turns it off.

Don't get me wrong, the power meter is a great training tool, but the numbers have nothing to do with anyone but yourself. If you see an increase in wattage against your own numbers, things are good. If you start compairing numbers with someone else, you start getting in trouble. If you assume you're going to win because of what your power meter says, you're screwed.

[Dr. Doofus]

Don't get me wrong, the power meter is a great training tool, but the numbers have nothing to do with anyone but yourself. If you see an increase in wattage against your own numbers, things are good. If you start compairing numbers with someone else, you start getting in trouble. If you assume you're going to win because of what your power meter says, you're screwed.


yup

[Fixed]

bro no computer no heart mon. for me it don't matter if you gotta go ya gotta go or get gaped i.m.h.o. you guys are a smarter than me though I am just dumb bike mess. I learn a lot from you bro .cheers :beer:

[Tom]

I'm starting to come around to the attitude that when it hurts too much my body will shut it down. I have a small obstacle to get over, that right now it's my brain shutting it down. Must lose the brain.

[Dr. Doofus]

it don't matter if you gotta go ya gotta go or get gaped .cheers :beer:

fixed bro, you gotta go when you gotta go