Saddle setback thoughts

[Bstone]

Any thoughts on proper saddle setback? I ride in Florida (flat) and tend to run my saddle with the tip about 2 cm behind the bottom bracket. All of our riding here is spinning a big gear. No climbing. It seems that the old notion of tip of knee over the pedal spindle might be falling by the wayside.

[Wesley37]

I think I have posted this link in about half of my posts to the Paceline, but whatever, it's a gooder.

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/

[wallymann]

2cm is nothing. i have 9cm setback, but my inseam is 91cm.

Any thoughts on proper saddle setback? I ride in Florida (flat) and tend to run my saddle with the tip about 2 cm behind the bottom bracket. All of our riding here is spinning a big gear. No climbing. It seems that the old notion of tip of knee over the pedal spindle might be falling by the wayside.

[enr1co]

Any thoughts on proper saddle setback? All of our riding here is spinning a big gear.

Proper setback ( and saddle height) is that where your knees arent hurting.


All of our riding here is spinning a big gear. No climbing. It seems that the old notion of tip of knee over the pedal spindle might be falling by the wayside.


climbing or flat riding... the knee over the spindle has been and still is a good starting baseline for fitting.

[ergott]

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f7/riding-tip-1-a-550.html#post7428

"* let me first say that if you are a strong devotee of the KOPS deal then you will strongly disagree with what I'm about to share. I personally think that KOPS is as valid as standing over the top tube and seeing how much room between your crotch and the top tube. All one needs to do is look at the two fastest type of bikes out there - the new school time trial bike (knee way in front of the spindle) and a recumbent (knee more than a bit behind the spindle) to realize that this knee-pedal thing is crap.

That said here is a way to get your ball park fore/aft saddle position. Note I'm not talking about reach from saddle to bars. Saddle to bar reach is a separate deal and should not be adjusted by moving the saddle fore/aft. Reach is a function of toptube/stem length.

1) put your bike in a medium easyish gear and ride up a very gentle grade. I use a 42-17 up a slight grade where I can maintain my natural cadence of 85ish without great effort.

2) put your hands on the tops of the bar next to the stem and ride relaxed like this for a bit. Let your body fall into a natural arch and relax.

3) now, with your body relaxed, lift your hands from the bars WITHOUT sitting up or changing the angle of your hips and lower back. Lift just the hands off the bars. Just and inch or so. Do not sit up.

3a) if you can do this without strain or by using a great deal of core strength then your fore/aft saddle position probably isn't bad and is in the ballpark.
3b) if you have a hard time doing this even after a few tries then it's a pretty good bet that your fore/aft deal could use adjustment. If you tend to fall forward when your hands are lifted it's a good bet your saddle could go back. If you tend to fall back then your saddle is way too far back. The latter is pretty rare.


This test, like all tests is not absolute or perfect but I've found it to be a good general rule. I think more folks will find themselves falling forward (instead of backward) and need to move the saddle back. Most folks that have had a fitting that is built around KOPS will have a saddle that is too far forward and will put too much pressure on their hands (I'm still not talking about reach here). This will make folks want to fit shorter stems and to raise the bars. This will have the double negative whammy of making the bike handle like ···· and make you want an even shorter-higher stem.

By having the feet the right distance in front of your hips your ass and lower back muscles (the best ones you got!) can easily hold your position. You can try this right now in your chair while you should be getting some work done - sitting in your chair put your heals 6" in front of the chair on the floor. Lean forward a bit. Easy as ···· eh? Now move your feet back so the balls of your feet are under the leading edge of the seat and lean forward a bit. It's takes much more core strength to hold this unnatural position. It's the same basic deal on the bike. Your feet support you and the added weight on your feet can be put into the pedals. If you pedaled with your hands then having a lot of weight on them would kick ass.

Give it a try. If you descide to make changes make them very small and a little at a time. I little can go a long way.

Time to make the donuts,

dave"

[Ti Designs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klc78RaKU9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw8mOEZX7FE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyb_rUPaNfE

[ergott]

Is that you? Cool.

[Black Dog]

Is that you? Cool.

I have watched them and they are good. Thumbs up, Ti.

[oldpotatoe]

Any thoughts on proper saddle setback? I ride in Florida (flat) and tend to run my saddle with the tip about 2 cm behind the bottom bracket. All of our riding here is spinning a big gear. No climbing. It seems that the old notion of tip of knee over the pedal spindle might be falling by the wayside.

No such thing as.....

KOPS, Knee Over Pedal Spindle is only a place to start, fit wise.

What problem are you trying to solve? What question are you trying to answer?

Raw numbers are not something I would strive for..'4.337cm setback on a 73.8 degree frame with age groupers of .......blah'..

Is there an issue with your fit?

[kurto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klc78RaKU9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw8mOEZX7FE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyb_rUPaNfE

Awesome, helpful videos. Thanks.

[Bstone]

Thanks for the responses. The Steve Hogg article is what got me thinking in the first place. I feel like his ideas on fit lead not only to pedaling efficiency but a good handling bike.

[Ralph]

On a 56 CM square frame with 73/73, and 31" inseam, I usually wind up with roughly a 6.5 CM set back. Kinda depends on saddle, etc. Usually puts me in middle of rails on seats I use. I'm pretty conventional.

[Ralph]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klc78RaKU9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw8mOEZX7FE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyb_rUPaNfE

Thanks

[fourflys]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klc78RaKU9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw8mOEZX7FE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyb_rUPaNfE

that's some good stuff right there! I especially like video 3, never thought of it that way... thanks!

[dekindy]

Using Steve Hogg's blog and video on cleat placement and TiDesigns videos should get any cyclist without a special need in a very comfortable, efficient position.

[Tony]

Today after reading this tread I set my saddle and cleats back as per Ti, Dave and Steve's recommendations. Did 42 miles in this new position, like it a lot!!

I've learned so much here on this forum, from so many! Thanks!!!

[rnhood]

Short videos, but they provide a really good starting point. Good job to Ti.

[David Kirk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klc78RaKU9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw8mOEZX7FE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyb_rUPaNfE

well done.

dave

[floxy1]

This was good timing as my fore/aft had gotten out of whack for a number of reasons. I used Eric's method and it worked quite well. Was too far back and my hands immediately started to raise. Moved the saddle forward and whola hands floating right above bar. That's not a comfortable position by any stretch (I $#&@ hate core) but wasnt falling back or forward.

[nbl78s]

I have been struggling with this for/aft seat position thing... I recently changed frames and I don't log near the miles I used... But now when I get a chance to squeeze in an extended ride the end of the ride is miserable. I'm thinking I need a slightly shorter stem to compensate and give me a more upright position because my knees don't bother me at all but my lower back is aching like a dog in the end :confused:

[Gummee]

I'll ask the question again re these to fit methods: where do you start?

Jumping on a bike with no baseline, them moving things about more or less randomly doesn't make sense. If you don't know where you're starting, how can you make changes?

That's where the old KOPS came from. Ya gotta have somewhere to start and it provided a very repeatable position to move from/to. IOW: Line up the cleat over the ball of the foot and then work upwards. If you run into issues, THEN move away from the baseline.

No, KOPS isn't the be-all-end-all of positioning, but IME EVERYthing has to start somewhere.

M

[dekindy]

Start with positioning cleats(Steve Hogg method), then height, then fore/aft, then back and forth between height and fore/aft to fine tune as adjustment of one impacts the other(watch TiDesigns video), then handlebars by default?

[Tony]

Start with positioning cleats(Steve Hogg method), then height, then fore/aft, then back and forth between height and fore/aft to fine tune as adjustment of one impacts the other(watch TiDesigns video), then handlebars by default?

That's how I started my fitting, Steve's cleat position method, seat height I went with 25 degree bend in my knees, Dave and Ti's fore/aft, so far really like the change. I had my seat too far forward putting lots of pressure on my hands. I tried to prevent my hands from going numb by modifying my handlebar (see below) Moving the seat back has taken a good percentage of the pressure off my hands. Still like the mods to the handlebars :)

https://plus.google.com/photos/107709068384636814318/albums/5989316300579042033