OT: Malaysia Airlines jet

[Louis]

This gets weirder and weirder: so now they're saying that there's evidence showing that various on-board systems on the aircraft (which do this automatically) attempted to contact communications satellites in orbit for several hours after the radio and transponder stopped communicating.

That suggests that there was no single catastrophic event that took the plane down. I think the search area is getting pretty darn wide...

[echelon_john]

I heard they're going to dig up the end zone of Giants Stadium and see if it's buried with Hoffa.

[Louis]

Who knows, maybe he was one of the guys flying on a stolen passport.

[Cat3roadracer]

Really no place for humor here. Several families without currently.

[Louis]

Really no place for humor here. Several families without currently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_humor

[jimcav]

i keep thinking of the show Lost. It does seem amazing with all the tech/comms on planes, not to mention the cellphones that nothing got out to give a hint of what happened.

[parris]

I haven't been following every detail of this but here's a what hopefully isn't an idiotic question.

Given what some are saying about the plane possibly staying up for a longer period of time could something like what happened to golfer Payne Stewart's plane have happened? With all the systems in place I realize that it's highly unlikely but it crossed my mind.

[Louis]

Possibly, but if that's what happened it's unlikely that the transponder would have stopped functioning. That suggests human agency.

[ultraman6970]

https://i.imgflip.com/7fao2.jpg

[ultraman6970]

That's the part i dont get, planes have black boxes that transmit a signal so they can be found, apparently a lot of other "plane services" were still transmiting data and crap, how in the world they can't pin point at least the last position?

If this plane doesnt show up I'm going to start believing for real that aliens took it.

This gets weirder and weirder: so now they're saying that there's evidence showing that various on-board systems on the aircraft (which do this automatically) attempted to contact communications satellites in orbit for several hours after the radio and transponder stopped communicating.

That suggests that there was no single catastrophic event that took the plane down. I think the search area is getting pretty darn wide...

[rustychisel]

We've already had TV specials over here... nothing but 2 hours of cheap pointless speculation... starting with alien abduction theory.

[no, I didn't watch it, saw the first 3 minutes]

[rounder]

Possibly, but if that's what happened it's unlikely that the transponder would have stopped functioning. That suggests human agency.

If it was human agency, and someone turned the transponders off and crashed/parked the plane, who would do something like that.

[rustychisel]

If it was human agency, and someone turned the transponders off and crashed/parked the plane, who would do something like that.


Etihad, Virgin, Qantas, Singapore... [ok, I'm kidding, but not in bad humour, I promise]

[Louis]

I'm not saying that it definitely was done purposely, but unfortunately there are lots of kooks / crazies / bad guys out there.

[rounder]

I fly a fair amount and am concerned about things happening. I do not believe that it is absurd to think that the flight was possibly diverted.

[rustychisel]

I know little of such things but assumed that 'black box' recorders etc were supplemented or replaced by CONTINUOUS telemetry and data uploads.

With that in mind I cannot for the life of me understand why time and position is not known.

[Louis]

I know little of such things but assumed that 'black box' recorders etc were supplemented or replaced by CONTINUOUS telemetry and data uploads.

With that in mind I cannot for the life of me understand why time and position is not known.

I think the airline has to pay extra for that. What I've read thus far indicated that this airline did not purchase that option. I don't know the details about how much data is sent if you don't buy that package.

Sounds like something like that would be worth doing as much as possible as a safety precaution, but I'm sure some airlines would complain about the cost.

[ultraman6970]

This plane thing looks like the perfect plot for a new "battle royale" movie.

[soulspinner]

I know little of such things but assumed that 'black box' recorders etc were supplemented or replaced by CONTINUOUS telemetry and data uploads.

With that in mind I cannot for the life of me understand why time and position is not known.

This mornings internet news is saying the effort is shifting and an American destroyer is heading to a spot in the Indian Ocean. We know about where it went down. My thought is the plane was commandeered, negotiations failed and.....

[jpw]

This is a hijack. I would not be surprised if the plane is right now on the ground surrounded by special forces in a siege scenario.

[Climb01742]

Last night one aviation expert went through the 'ghost plane' scenario where a slow loss of cabin pressure kills everyone yet the plane continues flying for 2000 miles. What a sad spooky end if that is what happened, though it seems some sort of human agency was involved. For the families, hope some sort of definitive answer is found...and for all the passengers flying 777s today and in future.

[oldpotatoe]

I haven't been following every detail of this but here's a what hopefully isn't an idiotic question.

Given what some are saying about the plane possibly staying up for a longer period of time could something like what happened to golfer Payne Stewart's plane have happened? With all the systems in place I realize that it's highly unlikely but it crossed my mind.

If there is decompression, sudden or slow, all sorts of alarms go off and the aircrew O2 masks are right next to them, quick donning type..I think it's unlikely.

Aircrew cabin is supposed to stay locked these days also...No cell phone contact from anybody in the aircraft after it went EMCON..

[christian]

I know little of such things but assumed that 'black box' recorders etc were supplemented or replaced by CONTINUOUS telemetry and data uploads.

With that in mind I cannot for the life of me understand why time and position is not known.

This is not a storage question, it's a bandwidth question. There are literally thousands of planes in the air at one time. Even if they sent small digital packets of location information, heading, and system status (which is more than they send when interrogated by ATC radar), they'd either be clogging up tons of radio wavelength here on earth or having to rely on satellites, which is expensive.

Moore's law applies to storage, but not bandwidth.

[soulspinner]

This is not a storage question, it's a bandwidth question. There are literally thousands of planes in the air at one time. Even if they sent small digital packets of location information, heading, and system status (which is more than they send when interrogated by ATC radar), they'd either be clogging up tons of radio wavelength here on earth or having to rely on satellites, which is expensive.

Moore's law applies to storage, but not bandwidth.

The article I read said a satellite tracked it for sometime after loss of the planes signal..........

[christian]

I think what happened is that the a satellite received communication attempts to relay maintenance information, which would indicate electrical power to the transmitter after the transponder was turned off. Which I think is why people think it continued flying.

Based on that piece of info, I think the plausible scenarios are being reduced to a decompression event which immediately disabled the pilots or a highjacking. The amateur psychologist in me thinks pilot suicide is less likely, because the additional flight time after the transponder is shut off doesn't seem to reconcile with that scenario.

[Nebby]

The article I read said a satellite tracked it for sometime after loss of the planes signal..........

It has nothing to do with the black box, they're apparently referring to the ACARS system, based on this (http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/20a4fr/comprehensive_timeline_malaysia_airlines_flight/cg20qqb)reddit comment:

There's an ACARS modem on the plane. It can communicate line of sight to the ground or beyond line of sight to satellites. Those satellites (and ground transponders) are owned (or leased) by commecial companies (ARINC and SITA) and they charge fees for data (just like cell phone companies). Airlines pay for the amount of data and they minimize the data by sending it at predefined intervals like take-off, landing and when problems are detected. However at the low level, the modem needs to stay connected to the transponders (in this case the satellite) at all times in case the plane decides to send it data. The "signal" or "ping" as I've seen it referred is this communication between the modem and the satellite transponder. Verification could only come from those engineering focals with those ACARS commercial companies because connectivity traffic is not somthing you would provide to the airline.
Also, the modem only talks to a single computer on the plane and that computer is routing data to be reported e.g. engines or pilot text messages, etc.
Also, Boeing and RR do not talk directly to the plane. They are receiving data which has been sent from the plane's ACARS modem to the transponder which is then routed to a ground node which then routed to malaysia air servers and is then (selectively) routed to Boeing or RR.
more info on ACARS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Communications_Addressing_and_Reporting_S ystem

[Mark McM]

If there is decompression, sudden or slow, all sorts of alarms go off and the aircrew O2 masks are right next to them, quick donning type..I think it's unlikely.

It may not be likely, but not impossible. It's happened before, such as the Helios Airways Flight 522 crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522)in 2005.

Aircrew cabin is supposed to stay locked these days also...No cell phone contact from anybody in the aircraft after it went EMCON..

I don't think a lack of cell phone contact means anything - there aren't any cell phone towers in the middle of the ocean to pick them up.

[R2D2]

Aircrew cabin is supposed to stay locked these days also.....

I read somewhere that the crew was known for giving rides for some up in the cabin.
But what a mystery.......

So many theories and possibilities.

Even postulated a meteor hit it.

[OtayBW]

This is a hijack. I would not be surprised if the plane is right now on the ground surrounded by special forces in a siege scenario.
What is the gain in hijacking an aircraft if no one knows you did it (or that it is indeed even hijacked)?

[Skenry]

What is the gain in hijacking an aircraft if no one knows you did it (or that it is indeed even hijacked)?

To turn it into a weapon.
Easy as that.

Scott

[Mark McM]

What is the gain in hijacking an aircraft if no one knows you did it (or that it is indeed even hijacked)?

It could be that a hijacker intended to go somewhere out of range of the airplane, and the airplane ran out of fuel over the ocean before they got there.

This is what happened on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961) in 1987. The captain tried to explain to the hijackers that they didn't have enough fuel on board to go from their departure point (Addis-Ababa-Ethiopea) to Australia, but the hijackers thought that the captain was trying to trick them, and insisted that they head for Australia anyway. The plane ran out fuel over the Indian Ocean and ditched in the water, killing most of those onboard.

[OtayBW]

I will go under the assumption that if this is a hijacking, it is from a group with an agenda, and not some lone whack-job bent on getting his kicks. That said, I don't see the point or the effectiveness in some political group hijacking something if no one knows about it. :confused: Seems to me that someone is has to take 'credit' for this or else there is no juice involved in the incident.

[joep2517]

This is something I heard about this morning on the news.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-seismic-activity-detected-when-plane-disappeared-radar-1440280

[93legendti]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-missing-passports/index.html

"Stolen passports raise possibility of terrorism in missing flight"
I am sure it's not core al qaeda.

[soulspinner]

It has nothing to do with the black box, they're apparently referring to the ACARS system, based on this (http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/20a4fr/comprehensive_timeline_malaysia_airlines_flight/cg20qqb)reddit comment:

I realize that, but every 777 has a signal to satellites,..........

[malcolm]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-missing-passports/index.html

"Stolen passports raise possibility of terrorism in missing flight"
I am sure it's not core al qaeda.


The stolen passports may or may not be that big a deal. I read online about the number of phony and stolen documents being used in that part of the world and it was astronomical. There was another flight that crashed a while back and 20 or more people on board out like 150 were using stolen or forged documents, so while it raises suspicion it's apparently not an uncommon occurrence.

[Seramount]

plane disappears over the ocean...?

I'd figure a mechanical issue resulting in a water "landing" (aka crash) first before assuming other scenarios like hijacking, aliens, meteorites, missiles...

[azrider]

no way this is possible right ?

[Nebby]

I realize that, but every 777 has a signal to satellites,..........

What satellite signal are you referring to? Satellite bandwidth is expensive, to have every 777 in constant communication with a satellite would be ridiculously expensive.

[ecsnsmb]

This is impossibly eerie.

[Ozz]

just putting it out there.....

[PQJ]

no way this is possible right ?

i wouldn't be surprised. hard to believe it just went 'poof.'

[goonster]

"Stolen passports raise possibility of terrorism in missing flight"

The folks travelling with the stolen passports have been identified as two guys trying to migrate to Germany. Authorities consider it highly unlikely that they have terrorist ties.

no way this is possible right ?
It hasn't been ruled out, so it is possible.

[soulspinner]

What satellite signal are you referring to? Satellite bandwidth is expensive, to have every 777 in constant communication with a satellite would be ridiculously expensive.

777s have a ping which automatically checks in to satellites with British satellite telecom provider Inmarsat (British). Those pings were picked up well after radar contact lost. A US destroyer was sent to the spot where the pings ended, and it was stationary. Thats all Im crudely trying to say.

[Saint Vitus]

What satellite signal are you referring to? Satellite bandwidth is expensive, to have every 777 in constant communication with a satellite would be ridiculously expensive.

Read the Wiki entry on ACARS linked earlier, it explains in detail the manner with which the system operates. Suffice it to say, the 'pinging' is only to keep a connection open with whatever channel is available (satellite is one form of transmission), kinda like "here I am when you are ready for the goods". The data is only sent under certain conditions. That's my understanding anyways.

[Nooch]

Read the Wiki entry on ACARS linked earlier, it explains in detail the manner with which the system operates. Suffice it to say, the 'pinging' is only to keep a connection open with whatever channel is available (satellite is one form of transmission), kinda like "here I am when you are ready for the goods". The data is only sent under certain conditions. That's my understanding anyways.

On the news last night they described it like a wireless router -- nothing is going on unless you're using it, but it's always active, always connected, even if there's no data going over..

[Louis]

If folks really want all aircraft to be tracked 24/7 under all conditions all they have to do is make that a hard requirement and I can guarantee you that Airbus, Boeing and all the small fry will be able to do it - at a price.

Right now it just isn't a requirement, so folks should quit wondering and acting amazed when they find out that there isn't a special "Find Aircraft xxxx" button on the air traffic control console.

[Louis]

Well, now they're saying that they're certain that it flew for quite a few hours after they first lost contact, and that they're pretty sure that it was deliberate (ie not just a ghost plane flying with everyone dead or passed out inside).

This is going to go down as one of the strangest aircraft episodes ever. Best case scenario is that it has indeed landed safely somewhere, but I bet the odds of that are slim. Hopefully they'll find it some time soon, and not months from now when seat cushions wash up on some distant shore.

If it did land in the water in a controlled manner (a la Sully Sullenberger) then sank in deep enough water there's a chance there won't be any wreckage to be found at all, ever. But if that's the case, hopefully that also means someone was still flying it, which means everyone is not necessarily dead.

This story keeps getting stranger.

[Nags&Ducs]

Concur - it is very very strange. I wouldn't be surprised if some official govt agency had knowledge that they're not fully disclosing. And I'm not being a whacko 911'er.

[witcombusa]

I believe the plane is on Diego Garcia.

If you are not familiar with that "location", look into it!

[dekindy]

My fear is that they were able to land this plan somewhere, will be able to refuel, load it with 50,000+ pounds of explosives and crash it into something major. Suez Canal might be a target? 3 Gorges Dam in China? Hong Kong? United States? Longest range and highest cargo capacity passenger jet in the World indicates maximum options.

[CNY rider]

Maybe it will show up on EBay soon?

[shovelhd]

Somebody is going to flip it in the classifieds for a full custom Bedford. Watch for the "WTB: Two 777 black boxes" ad.

[yngpunk]

Concur - it is very very strange. I wouldn't be surprised if some official govt agency had knowledge that they're not fully disclosing. And I'm not being a whacko 911'er.

Take your choice here:

http://www.boston.com/news/source/2014/03/9_crazy_conspiracy_theories_about_malaysian_airlin es_flight.html

My favorite is:

"3. There's a Snowden connection: Reddit user Dark_Spectre posted an unusual theory on the website’s conspiracy boards, related to 20 employees of the Texas-based Freescale Semiconductor who were reportedly on the flight:

“So we have the American IBM Technical Storage Executive for Malaysia, a man working in mass storage aggregation for the company implicated by the Snowden papers for providing their services to assist the National Security Agency in surveilling the Chinese.. And now this bunch of US chip guys working for a global leader in embedded processing solutions (embedded smart phone tech and defense contracting) all together..on a plane..And disappeared.. Coincidence??”

Dark_Spectre goes as far as to suggest those chip experts may have been kidnapped by Chinese or American authorities:

"Perhaps a little fast and furious dive under the radar to a flat water landing to rendezvous with a Chinese ship or sub for transport to a black-site for advanced interrogation, scuttling the plane along with the remaining passengers.(any oceanic trenches in fuel capacity distance?) What would 200 lives be to the Chinese intelligence community for the chance to find out ‘exactly’ the depth and scope of our intrusion.”

Yeah, because that would definitely be the easiest way of doing that.

“US intelligence got late wind that their flying brain-trust of 21 were going to be arrested/detained and interrogated upon landing in China and the US intelligence community deemed the risk too great to their Asian based espionage programs and took appropriate action to "sanitize" the plane in flight.”

So far, there is no evidence of an explosion. "

[dave thompson]

Maybe it will show up on EBay soon?

Nope, here: http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html

[Climb01742]

the only way this could get stranger is if the passenger list had people on it named jack, kate, locke, sawyer and hurley.

[Nags&Ducs]

I believe the plane is on Diego Garcia.

If you are not familiar with that "location", look into it!

I've landed in Diego during my flight around the world in a C130. For some reason, I had quite a long layover in some shyte hole called Al Udeid before resuming my flight back to California.

There is really no place to hide a 777 on DG if I recall.

[oldpotatoe]

I believe the plane is on Diego Garcia.

If you are not familiar with that "location", look into it!

I spent a week there one afternoon..big military presence, doubt yer gonna hide a 777 there altho the runway is long enough, 12,000 ft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diegogarcia.jpg

[beeatnik]

the only way this could get stranger is if the passenger list had people on it named jack, kate, locke, sawyer and hurley.

:cool:

[AgilisMerlin]

Heuristic (/hjʉˈrɪstɨk/; Greek: "Εὑρίσκω", "find" or "discover") refers to experience-based techniques for problem solving, learning, and discovery that gives a solution which is not guaranteed to be optimal. Where the exhaustive search is impractical, heuristic methods are used to speed up the process of finding a satisfactory solution via mental shortcuts to ease the cognitive load of making a decision. Examples of this method include using a rule of thumb, an educated guess, an intuitive judgment, stereotyping, or common sense.
In more precise terms, heuristics are strategies using readily accessible, though loosely applicable, information to control problem solving in human beings and machines.

wkpdeea/

[Anarchist]

Some people here have very odd ideas of what is humorous, and when it is appropriate.

[Climb01742]

Some people here have very odd ideas of what is humorous, and when it is appropriate.

perhaps you're referring to my comment? my comment does not refer to the crash itself, which is tragic and it's heartbreaking that the families of the passengers are without answers or a resolution.

what i was commenting on is the growing strangeness of the media coverage and the bizarre, unfounded conspiracy theories that are being given coverage.

this is just one local example:

http://boston.com/2014/03/14/crazy-conspiracy-theories-about-malaysia-airlines-flight/VMiadcglSwuKCFI3jehWoM/pictures.html

to me this seems inappropriate.

i might have been unclear in my post. this was my point. and why I wrote, 'the only way this could get stranger...' Referring to what's happening_after_the crash, mainly on cable news and local outlets.

[Anarchist]

perhaps you're referring to my comment? my comment does not refer to the crash itself, which is tragic and it's heartbreaking that the families of the passengers are without answers or a resolution.

what i was commenting on is the growing strangeness of the media coverage and the bizarre, unfounded conspiracy theories that are being given coverage.

this is just one local example:

http://boston.com/2014/03/14/crazy-conspiracy-theories-about-malaysia-airlines-flight/VMiadcglSwuKCFI3jehWoM/pictures.html

to me this seems inappropriate.

i might have been unclear in my post. this was my point. and why I wrote, 'the only way this could get stranger...' Referring to what's happening_after_the crash, mainly on cable news and local outlets.

No, not your post at all.

[witcombusa]

Well I can promise you that the NSA and CIA know EXACTLY where the plane is, what happened and who did it. There is no question. We've had the technology for a long time. The deception that comes out of our government on a daily basis is sickening.

[Elefantino]

Nope, here: http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html
Must be a scam. That is a 777-300ER, and the missing plane is a 777-200ER.

[oldpotatoe]

Well I can promise you that the NSA and CIA know EXACTLY where the plane is, what happened and who did it. There is no question. We've had the technology for a long time. The deception that comes out of our government on a daily basis is sickening.

Promise, ehhh? Righto. No question.....I'm sure, maybe CIA crashed it to keep a Chinese guy quiet......geeeezzzz

[Seramount]

Well I can promise you that the NSA and CIA know EXACTLY where the plane is, what happened and who did it. There is no question. We've had the technology for a long time. The deception that comes out of our government on a daily basis is sickening.

so, you're saying that the NSA / CIA tracks every civilian flight on the globe 24/7...?

[93legendti]

I suppose with the NSA and CIA busy spying on our emails, phone calls, internet activity, credit card transactions, foreign leaders and even our own Congress, it is possible they are throwing us a bone and allowing us to be free while in the air....Right, and the ATF honors restraining orders preventing them from seizing lawful customer lists:

"Credit card transactions are among the activities that have been monitored by the National Security Agency as part of its effort to target possible terrorists, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday night."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/report-nsa-credit-card-transactions-92390.html#ixzz2w9xpgRQl

"A dispute between the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Senate Intelligence Committee may have spilled into dangerous territory, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow said on Wednesday,following a New York Times report that agency operatives gained access to the computers being used by lawmakers to investigate the agency."
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/05/rachel-maddow-cia-spying-on-congress-is-death-of-the-republic-stuff/


"LONDON, Oct 24 (Reuters) - The United States monitored the phone conversations of 35 world leaders according to classified documents leaked by fugitive whistleblower Edward Snowden, Britain's Guardian newspaper said on Thursday.
Phone numbers were passed on to the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) by an official in another government department, according to the documents, the Guardian said on its website."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/nsa-world-leaders_n_4158922.html


"WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama is ordering changes to spy programs that sweep up Americans' phone records and store email and Internet data from around the world, seven months after former NSA analyst Edward Snowden began divulging secret methods of the National Security Agency. If enacted by Congress, it would mean significant changes to the bulk collection of communications."
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-01-17/questions-and-answers-about-obamas-new-nsa-rules


'Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg called President Obama on Wednesday night to express frustration about the government's spying and hacking programs.
"When our engineers work tirelessly to improve security, we imagine we're protecting you against criminals, not our own government," Zuckerberg wrote in a Facebook postThursday afternoon...
His concerns are based on the latest investigative report from The Intercept, which revealed that the National Security Agency has weaponized the Internet, making it possible to inject bad software into innocent peoples' computers en masse. Put simply, using the QUANTUM program, the NSA can sneak into someone's Web browser.'
http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/13/technology/security/mark-zuckerberg-nsa/index.html

[OtayBW]

Aaaaaand........they're off! :crap:

[4Rings6Stars]

The nutjobs have joined the thread...

[malcolm]

Well I can promise you that the NSA and CIA know EXACTLY where the plane is, what happened and who did it. There is no question. We've had the technology for a long time. The deception that comes out of our government on a daily basis is sickening.


The deception and lying from our government, like all governments, goes way back and it's what you get when power is so concentrated and the populace is out of the loop because we can't handle the truth. After saying that I would be surprised if the CIA, NSA or whatever alphabet you like know exactly where this aircraft is. They probably have ideas but that's about it.

[paulh]

The nutjobs have joined the thread...

Whadaya mean? 100% cycling here, right?

[saab2000]

Well I can promise you that the NSA and CIA know EXACTLY where the plane is, what happened and who did it. There is no question. We've had the technology for a long time. The deception that comes out of our government on a daily basis is sickening.

I've flown with a couple people who make statements like this. They make my job very, very difficult because I have to sit in a small space with them for days.

The stuff that they absolutely, totally, believe to be 100% true without a doubt is mind numbing. You can't carry on a conversation about anything without them twisting it, and usually in the person who was elected president in 2008.

Can't even talk about the Packers without the conversation turning to government protected business monopolies.....

I would imagine you know that the CIA/NSA is hiding information about all the plane crashes that have happened under mysterious circumstances. What about the 747 that crashed in Amsterdam a decade or so ago? Or the South African 747 that crashed about 20 years ago in the Pacific or Indian Ocean and has never been recovered. I'm sure the NSA and CIA (and by default yourself, since you know that they know) must know all things.

[oldpotatoe]

The deception and lying from our government, like all governments, goes way back and it's what you get when power is so concentrated and the populace is out of the loop because we can't handle the truth. After saying that I would be surprised if the CIA, NSA or whatever alphabet you like know exactly where this aircraft is. They probably have ideas but that's about it.

Col. Jessup knows.

[fuzzalow]

Fueled by ignorance, half truths and suspicions, it is inevitable that there will be rampant paranoia in blaming the government. Or as elocuted by the tinfoil hat brigade - "duh gummint".

And in fairness to the lunatic fringe, I'd agree with them on some of their points based on two kernels of, even from them, sound reasoning:


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - Arthur C.Clarke
The power and technology capability of advanced governments is formidable and capable of much that might seem on the surface as taken from the realm of science fiction or magic

So I'd agree that if you were to view yourself as a high-value target and the government agreed with that assessment, sooner or later, they will get you. Bin Laden was such a target but Joe Sixpack is not.

It comes down to this: If the government somehow thinks you are important enough to be looked at then they can marshal the technological resources of the richest nation on planet Earth and they can know everything about whoever they want to know about. But if you haven't done anything noticeable enough then don't flatter yourself by thinking they are looking directly at you. You are nor worth the time, effort and resources.

Just like if the government had reason to look at that passenger jet they could know exactly where it is. But they didn't and they don't.

[witcombusa]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."


"The corporate media is full of stories about how Flight 370 "could have" flown to China, or India, or Kyrgyzstan, or Australia. Notably, Diego Garcia is never mentioned. But a moment's thought shows why those alternative suggestions will not work. Every nation on Earth maintains air defense radars that detect incoming aircraft via skin-paint, and do not rely on transponders. We have a bunch here in Hawaii. Then there are radars used by coast guard, drug interdiction, and other law enforcement. They would all have picked up a target as large as a 777, which being a civilian airliner is not designed to be stealthy. Hence, the only direction flight 370 could have gone to not show up on any of those radars was to continue the course suggested by a line drawn from the location where the transponder shut off to the last radar contact near Silver Island, which points right at Diego Garcia."

[oldpotatoe]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."


"The corporate media is full of stories about how Flight 370 "could have" flown to China, or India, or Kyrgyzstan, or Australia. Notably, Diego Garcia is never mentioned. But a moment's thought shows why those alternative suggestions will not work. Every nation on Earth maintains air defense radars that detect incoming aircraft via skin-paint, and do not rely on transponders. We have a bunch here in Hawaii. Then there are radars used by coast guard, drug interdiction, and other law enforcement. They would all have picked up a target as large as a 777, which being a civilian airliner is not designed to be stealthy. Hence, the only direction flight 370 could have gone to not show up on any of those radars was to continue the course suggested by a line drawn from the location where the transponder shut off to the last radar contact near Silver Island, which points right at Diego Garcia."

I've been to DiegoGarcia, have you? It is a spit of land, no terrain, with a big military presence, not gonna hide a 777 there. Unless it is there and the military there, not just US, BTW, is convinced to say nothing, even via email.....

Balderdash....you are delusional, a conspiracy theorist, like the other......impolite description, here.

[malcolm]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."


"The corporate media is full of stories about how Flight 370 "could have" flown to China, or India, or Kyrgyzstan, or Australia. Notably, Diego Garcia is never mentioned. But a moment's thought shows why those alternative suggestions will not work. Every nation on Earth maintains air defense radars that detect incoming aircraft via skin-paint, and do not rely on transponders. We have a bunch here in Hawaii. Then there are radars used by coast guard, drug interdiction, and other law enforcement. They would all have picked up a target as large as a 777, which being a civilian airliner is not designed to be stealthy. Hence, the only direction flight 370 could have gone to not show up on any of those radars was to continue the course suggested by a line drawn from the location where the transponder shut off to the last radar contact near Silver Island, which points right at Diego Garcia."

I've not been to Diego Garcia since the hostage crisis in Iran back during the carter administration, but it was a fairly busy military base then and suspect remains so today. I can't imagine a 777 landing there and nobody noticing. Even Col. Jessup couldn't keep that quiet. Sorry, the elder spud beat me to it.

[Elefantino]

The way this is headed I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned our precious bodily fluids.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/N1KvgtEnABY/hqdefault.jpg

[93legendti]

I blame it on a YouTube video

[bironi]

The way this is headed I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned our precious bodily fluids.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/N1KvgtEnABY/hqdefault.jpg

Where is the like button and the thread close button? I'm scared, and I haven't read thru all the pages.

[paulh]

https://therebel.org/nodisinfo/748976-did-the-mossad-blow-up-the-malaysian-airlines-jet

[beeatnik]

things that make you go hmmmm

[rustychisel]

https://therebel.org/nodisinfo/748976-did-the-mossad-blow-up-the-malaysian-airlines-jet


You're not serious [I hope].

This is just scurrilous rubbish.

[majorpat]

Not so sure it is on Diego, pretty much just a ring of land with a harbor and runway. Knowing young (insert your favorite service here) troops over the years, there is almost no way that secret could be kept by anyone on the island, especially these days with the internets.
Sadly, if it did crash in the ocean, perhaps the reason it has not been found is that the oceans of the world are really big.

[Elefantino]

And, in that part of the world, fairly deep.

[gasman]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."


"The corporate media is full of stories about how Flight 370 "could have" flown to China, or India, or Kyrgyzstan, or Australia. Notably, Diego Garcia is never mentioned. But a moment's thought shows why those alternative suggestions will not work. Every nation on Earth maintains air defense radars that detect incoming aircraft via skin-paint, and do not rely on transponders. We have a bunch here in Hawaii. Then there are radars used by coast guard, drug interdiction, and other law enforcement. They would all have picked up a target as large as a 777, which being a civilian airliner is not designed to be stealthy. Hence, the only direction flight 370 could have gone to not show up on any of those radars was to continue the course suggested by a line drawn from the location where the transponder shut off to the last radar contact near Silver Island, which points right at Diego Garcia."

Just because you believe it does not make it so. Long ago everyone believed and knew the Earth was the center of the Solar System.

[dave thompson]

And flat.

[krhea]

I've flown with a couple people who make statements like this. They make my job very, very difficult because I have to sit in a small space with them for days.

The stuff that they absolutely, totally, believe to be 100% true without a doubt is mind numbing. You can't carry on a conversation about anything without them twisting it, and usually in the person who was elected president in 2008.

Can't even talk about the Packers without the conversation turning to government protected business monopolies.....

I would imagine you know that the CIA/NSA is hiding information about all the plane crashes that have happened under mysterious circumstances. What about the 747 that crashed in Amsterdam a decade or so ago? Or the South African 747 that crashed about 20 years ago in the Pacific or Indian Ocean and has never been recovered. I'm sure the NSA and CIA (and by default yourself, since you know that they know) must know all things.

Great response Saab!!!! Thanks. I was thinking what you were writing!!

[rustychisel]

You know they can watch you through your computer screen, right? :eek:

[cfox]

I think conspiracy theorists have always given governments way too much credit. They aren't as omnipotent and clever and all-knowing as you think, and are full of people who don't work well together. There are way too many personal ambitions at stake and the desire to throw others under the proverbial bus runs rampant; it's not easy to keep a secret under those conditions.

[93legendti]

It's not a conspiracy theory issue, it's a basic inability to tell the truth.

In the last year, we learned:
You can't keep your doctor.
You can't keep your health care.
Your health care premiums will not go down $2500/year.
Healthcare.gov is not ready and not working.
The unemployment rate in Sept 2012 was deliberately underreported.
The CIA did not investigate Benghazi.
The IRS scandal was not a few rogue agents in Cincinnati.
The NSA IS illegally spying on almost every aspect of our lives.
The number of illegals reported to be deported is artificially increased to include those caught trying to sneak in and sent back immediately.
Benghazi was not the result of a YouTube video.

Healthcare, immigration, unemployment, murder of Americans abroad, taxes, personal liberty. What's left?

There is no lie this govt will not tell us.

[fuzzalow]

There is no lie this govt will not tell us.

Oh come on! Don't be such a rube. There is no lie ANY government will not tell us.

[Fishbike]

There is really no such thing as "The Government." It's a bunch of people who are well-meaning, narcissistic, hard-working, lazy, organized, confused, single-minded, ambivalent, overwhelmed, underwhelming, idealistic, frustrated, confident, emotionally fragile, responsible, careless, etc. Just like the rest of us.

[Climb01742]

It's not a conspiracy theory issue, it's a basic inability to tell the truth.

In the last year, we learned:
You can't keep your doctor.
You can't keep your health care.
Your health care premiums will not go down $2500/year.
Healthcare.gov is not ready and not working.
The unemployment rate in Sept 2012 was deliberately underreported.
The CIA did not investigate Benghazi.
The IRS scandal was not a few rogue agents in Cincinnati.
The NSA IS illegally spying on almost every aspect of our lives.
The number of illegals reported to be deported is artificially increased to include those caught trying to sneak in and sent back immediately.
Benghazi was not the result of a YouTube video.

Healthcare, immigration, unemployment, murder of Americans abroad, taxes, personal liberty. What's left?

There is no lie this govt will not tell us.

Actually I think Adam has discovered a great historical fact. Apparently in the over 2000 year history of governments, lying and malfeasance began in 2008. Time to rewrite the history books.

[rustychisel]

There is really no such thing as "The Government." It's a bunch of people who are well-meaning, narcissistic, hard-working, lazy, organized, confused, single-minded, ambivalent, overwhelmed, underwhelming, idealistic, frustrated, confident, emotionally fragile, responsible, careless, etc. Just like the rest of us.

That's what they want you to believe... bahhahhahaaa

[oldpotatoe]

It's not a conspiracy theory issue, it's a basic inability to tell the truth.

In the last year, we learned:
You can't keep your doctor.
You can't keep your health care.
Your health care premiums will not go down $2500/year.
Healthcare.gov is not ready and not working.
The unemployment rate in Sept 2012 was deliberately underreported.
The CIA did not investigate Benghazi.
The IRS scandal was not a few rogue agents in Cincinnati.
The NSA IS illegally spying on almost every aspect of our lives.
The number of illegals reported to be deported is artificially increased to include those caught trying to sneak in and sent back immediately.
Benghazi was not the result of a YouTube video.

Healthcare, immigration, unemployment, murder of Americans abroad, taxes, personal liberty. What's left?

There is no lie this govt will not tell us.

tick, tick, tick..can't wait until November, 2016...and you can't wait to make a thread about a missing airliner about the POTUS...I'm SURE it was Obama's fault..ok Mods, over to you.

Truth and Government..I'm sure some vets who were wading around in the sandbox in Iraq..they'd like to talk about the truth...maybe to you...

Ya know, Vets, the ones doing the heavy lifting for you so you can spout this nonsense.

vote early and vote often, as long as ya got a picture ID..another well thought out GOP plan to reduce voter turnout to just angry, straight, old, white, men...

I'm sure Ted will do a better job, wait, he's Canadian...need to see that birth certificate fella!!

[R2D2]

It's not a conspiracy theory issue, it's a basic inability to tell the truth.

In the last year, we learned:
You can't keep your doctor.
You can't keep your health care.
Your health care premiums will not go down $2500/year.
Healthcare.gov is not ready and not working.
The unemployment rate in Sept 2012 was deliberately underreported.
The CIA did not investigate Benghazi.
The IRS scandal was not a few rogue agents in Cincinnati.
The NSA IS illegally spying on almost every aspect of our lives.
The number of illegals reported to be deported is artificially increased to include those caught trying to sneak in and sent back immediately.
Benghazi was not the result of a YouTube video.

Healthcare, immigration, unemployment, murder of Americans abroad, taxes, personal liberty. What's left?

There is no lie this govt will not tell us.

You do have freedom .

[soulspinner]

Actually I think Adam has discovered a great historical fact. Apparently in the over 2000 year history of governments, lying and malfeasance began in 2008. Time to rewrite the history books.

:p

[sg8357]

It's not a conspiracy theory issue, it's a basic inability to tell the truth.
[snip ]
There is no lie this govt will not tell us.

We can't handle the truth, the men on the walls protecting us,
only they need to know.

[blantonator]

It's not a conspiracy theory issue, it's a basic inability to tell the truth.

In the last year, we learned:
You can't keep your doctor.
You can't keep your health care.
Your health care premiums will not go down $2500/year.
Healthcare.gov is not ready and not working.
The unemployment rate in Sept 2012 was deliberately underreported.
The CIA did not investigate Benghazi.
The IRS scandal was not a few rogue agents in Cincinnati.
The NSA IS illegally spying on almost every aspect of our lives.
The number of illegals reported to be deported is artificially increased to include those caught trying to sneak in and sent back immediately.
Benghazi was not the result of a YouTube video.

Healthcare, immigration, unemployment, murder of Americans abroad, taxes, personal liberty. What's left?

There is no lie this govt will not tell us.

someone needs to turn off fox news.

[William]

http://media.giphy.com/media/d3wJLvfAy9lcI/giphy.gif


We seem to be heading down a political road here so time to lock it up. Until the plane is found it's all speculation at this point.







William