Brooks Saddle questions

[sevencyclist]

1. What's the difference between the laced saddles and the non-laces saddles? So far the laced saddles only come in B17 narrow, but I am wondering whether this is something that will make it across all of the models.

2. Has anyone tried the pre-softened versions of B17? Does it actually make any difference? Or is it like pre-ripped jeans, the focus is about the image?

3. How do the Swallow and the B17N compare to Swift? They are pretty similar in width, and minimally different in length. I have a Swift and a B17 regular, and I can't quite decide which one I like more. Neither of them is quite perfect, but one thing for sure is that they are both better than other saddles that I have tried. I am wondering whether to splurge for a Swallow?

Thanks for your help

[Ray]

1. What's the difference between the laced saddles and the non-laces saddles? So far the laced saddles only come in B17 narrow, but I am wondering whether this is something that will make it across all of the models.

2. Has anyone tried the pre-softened versions of B17? Does it actually make any difference? Or is it like pre-ripped jeans, the focus is about the image?

3. How do the Swallow and the B17N compare to Swift? They are pretty similar in width, and minimally different in length. I have a Swift and a B17 regular, and I can't quite decide which one I like more. Neither of them is quite perfect, but one thing for sure is that they are both better than other saddles that I have tried. I am wondering whether to splurge for a Swallow?

Thanks for your help

The laced saddles won't droop as much over time, at least in theory. No need to be laced at first - it's a detail you can always add if you need to later.

Pre-softened isn't much softer but these saddles have a reputation for not lasting nearly as long as the un-pre-softened ones. And Brook's reputation for longevity has taken a hit in the last 10 years or so anyway. So I'd stay away from the pre-softened. A B-17 isn't that hard to begin with and it if fits you it'll be comfortable right away.

I haven't ridden the Swallow, but the B-17N has a flatter back than the Swift, which has more of a crown. I think the Swallow looks more like a swift, but I'm really just guessing on that. I've heard of people cutting the skirts off of B-17Ns and Swifts to get a saddle that looks virtually indistinguishable from a Swallow, but I believe the Swallow does have a bit of reinforcement up by the nose somewhere.

-Ray

[Len J]

1. What's the difference between the laced saddles and the non-laces saddles? So far the laced saddles only come in B17 narrow, but I am wondering whether this is something that will make it across all of the models.

Ray is correct...it's to prevent droop


2. Has anyone tried the pre-softened versions of B17? Does it actually make any difference? Or is it like pre-ripped jeans, the focus is about the image?

I have no experience

3. How do the Swallow and the B17N compare to Swift? They are pretty similar in width, and minimally different in length. I have a Swift and a B17 regular, and I can't quite decide which one I like more. Neither of them is quite perfect, but one thing for sure is that they are both better than other saddles that I have tried. I am wondering whether to splurge for a Swallow?

Thanks for your help

B17N and Swallow are flatter front to back than the swift. I have swallows or B17N's on all my bikes, but couldn't get a swift to work for me in any position......it was way to "Saddle Shaped".

Len

[dirtdigger88]

swallows are basicly a B17n gone brazilian- your "sit area" is 2 cm narrower than on a standard B17

ray knows his stuff on droop-

I tried a B17 pre softened- it felt great the first time I sat on it- it really was pre softened- it was getting a curve to it inside of the first 65 miles- it was a saggy POS at around 500- i never put anything on the saddle and it never got wet

plus the frame is a flat black with a gritty finish and the Brooks logo is suspose to look aged- it looks cheap-


I now ride a B17 Champion- its what I should have gotten in the first place-

Jason

[jcmuellner]

I ride only Swifts or Team Pros and have only laced saddles that I got that were flared out and old.

Pre-softened versions are good to start with but don't seem to last as long. The only condradiction to this I found was the Team Pro version, which was still a hard rock after 500 miles and perfect at 1000.

The Swallow is 152 X 288mm
The B17N is Size 152 X 280mm
The Team Pro is 160 X 280mm
The Swift is 152 X 280mm

The B17N is flatter. The Swallow is longer and may not fit (from what you've said) like the other three. Maybe the Swift is your option?

Detals: <http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/standardsaddles.html>

[sevencyclist]

Thank you for all of your help. It sounds like the swallow fits slightly different from the other saddles as well. I guess the best way is to get one and try it out. It can get expensive though.

I am finding my B17 seems to be slightly more comfortable than my Swift.

The theory behind the saddles is that we want the sit bone to be supported by the seat. However, a wide seat can definitely support the ischial tuberosities, while the narrow seat might miss out on the support by being too narrow. It seems like few of us would ever complain about seats being wider( just like when we sit on a regular chair, the seat is wider than the sit bones), as long as the sides are not wide enough to rub against our inner thighs. So aside from weight, are there real comfort to be gained by B17N compared to B 17?

[dirtdigger88]

So aside from weight, are there real comfort to be gained by B17N compared to B 17?

not that I have seen

Jason

[Ray]

It seems like few of us would ever complain about seats being wider( just like when we sit on a regular chair, the seat is wider than the sit bones), as long as the sides are not wide enough to rub against our inner thighs. So aside from weight, are there real comfort to be gained by B17N compared to B 17?
Therein lies the rub (heh heh). I used to love B-17s. But my position has gotten just aggressive enough lately that the B-17 DOES rub agains my inner thighs when I rotate my hips forward. The B-17N is narrow enough to minimize this problem, but I've never found it all that comfortable for reasons I can't explain (I'm comfortable on other much narrower saddles than that). These days, my favorite Brooks is the Pro, which is rounder in the back than either of the B-17s (which are both quite flat side to side) and is between them in width. The transition from the wide rear to the narrow nose is also much more abrupt than either B-17, making the inner-thigh rub a total non-issue. Based on this, one might think I'd like the Swift even more, but I can't stand them.

So, like with all things saddle - it comes down to your own personal butt, how you sit on it, and what just plain feels right to you. All of the objective commentary in the world is interesting but may not have BUPKIS to do with how it feels under your cheeks.

-Ray

[dirtdigger88]

hey lets pile on and make things real hard to understand

even according to Brooks- I should not use a B17- I keep my bars way too low comparted to my saddle- BUT- I love them anyway

I did just pick up a fixie project with an older Pro on it- it does feel nice

But it seems like the pro would have one main "spot" where I would sit- there just doesnt seem to be the room to move around like on my B17

I am all over the place on my B17- and its not that I cant get comfortable- just the opposite- Im up on the nose when sprinting- Im way off the rear on brutal climbs- Im right in the middle most of the time-

Its not that I can do the same thing on the Pro- Im just not as comfortable as I am on the B17

as I see it

Pro = Flite

B17 = Arione

In a twisted 'Dirt' sort of way

Jason