OT: Ford Focus ST?

[fourflys]

Anyone have one of these? I did a search figuring there might have been one mentioned in one of the car threads, but not a lot...

I had mentioned us getting a Tacoma and small travel trailer in a previous thread but the it sounds like we may have decided against that...

So, my search is on for a fun car to drive and I LOVE the "Hot Hatchback" cars... I've been researching the new (2013+) Focus ST and haven't really seen a negative review yet... the best part is I can get one on "A/Z" plan since my did retired from Ford...

Anyone have any experience since Ford brought it out in 2013? Also, I'm think I could fit a road bike with the seats down... ;)

[Ralph]

A friend of mine has one, bought it for his wife, and loves it. Loves that "Aston Martin" looking grill. And he's in the business of tuning and modifying new Mustangs. I believe Ford offered the car in Europe before it came here. It's very powerful in stock form, and responds well to turning up the boost for more power. It also can be had with all the nice Ford Electronics. It is thousands less than comparable vehicles. Not sure there is anything really comparable.

His wife is a cyclist, and her bike fits in back with front wheel off.

[fourflys]

thanks Ralph...

Yes, Europe has been getting all the really cool Ford products for decades and now we finally have the Focus ST and Fiesta ST! I'm a huge fan of cars that can fun in the twisties and not just in a straight line...

I still have around 18 months before I'm in a position to buy one (gotta get out of Alaska first), so I've got lots of time to research and plan... ;)

[Ralph]

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/focus-st/

Edmunds likes it also. There is also rumor of it coming with a hot diesel option soon. Way more powerful than the VW models.

[bikinchris]

I used to be able to put my bike in fox body Mustangs. Turn the front wheel and place in the back with seats folded down.

[eddief]

have scoured the net about it and, like you said, the reviews seem universally good to great. I am an old guy and not particularly enamoured with the racer boy look of the car but bet it is fun as hell to drive.

[Shoeman]

Great little cars!!! I've had 2 Foci 2001 ZX3 that I modded into the Euro ST version. I now have a 2007 ST, which was the Mazda 3 2.3 both have been great they were daily drivers. Gas, oil & tires is all I ever done on mine put about 200,000 miles on both together. I'm retired now so I don't drive much anymore, I'd love to have the new one though. I still have the Mustang Cobra in the garage for Sunday drives.

[Ken Robb]

The new Consumer Reports just arrived and they don't recommend this car because while they loved the driving dynamics their surveys show poor reliability and really poor performance from their seemingly sophisticated electronics. If it was a really great drive I might get one anyway. They also pan MINI Cooper S cars and my 2007 has been 43,000 miles of trouble-free fun and 32 MPG overall.

[thirdgenbird]

It sounds like the "reliability" issues with the ford cars are all involve the intertainment system. As these systems get more complex, they should look at separating the raitings. Crappy voice controls* is livable, a crappy drivetrain is not.

*random example

[fourflys]

Ken,
I don't put too much stock in the CR reports...

if you look back, the Focus and Fusion world car platforms have been compared to Toyota and Honda reliability ratings so I'm not too worried... the rest of the world isn't as forgiving as us here in the US when it come to crappy cars...

[eddief]

but who know when?
-----------------------

Ford Motor Co. (F), struggling with in-car technology flaws, will base the next-generation Sync system on BlackBerry Ltd. (BBRY)’s QNX and no longer use Microsoft (MSFT) Corp.’s Windows, according to people briefed on the matter.

Using QNX will be less expensive than licensing Microsoft technology and will improve the flexibility and speed of the next Sync system, the people, who asked not to be identified because the decision hasn’t been made public, said Feb. 22. Ford has more than 7 million vehicles on the road with Sync using Microsoft voice-activated software to make mobile-phone calls and play music.

Related: BlackBerry Shares Rise as Ford Said to Pick QNX Over Microsoft

The switch may help Ford, the second-largest U.S. automaker, address customer complaints about malfunctioning technology systems and touch screens that have hurt it in surveys by J.D. Power & Associates and Consumer Reports. For BlackBerry, it’s a vote of support for a company that lost 95 percent of its value from mid-2008 to November and saw the collapse of a proposed $4.7 billion buyout.

“This would be a huge infusion of trust and confidence to have BlackBerry and QNX expanding into a Ford,” Thilo Koslowski, auto analyst for researcher Gartner Inc. in Santa Clara, California, said yesterday. “This is really the crown jewel in BlackBerry’s crown and could make the rest of the company shine as well.”

[Ralph]

I've got a 2012 Ford Edge Limited version with all the electronics. They work fine in my car. One problem is the learning curve to understand how to make them work. (and keeping your phone and other gadgets updated with latest compatible software) Maybe they are a little too complicated for a mass produced car. You do have to enunciate clearly. Speak to the microphone. You can't just jump in one of these cars, like a testor does, and get them working well in a few minutes. I'm reasonably tech savy, and it took me about 3 months to get all the systems figured out.

But there is so much to like. If Ford wants to change how the transmission shifts, or what parts of the dash looks like, move the guages such as temp or time or tach around , or change the tuning on the engine, add more words to voice recognition, add more languages, no need to go to a dealership. One just goes to the Ford site syncmyride.com, down load the new data into an empty SD chip, take that to my car, plug into the SD reader, let car idle a while, and new data is loaded. Update NAV same way. Ford put out 2013 maps free that way. Took it off syncmyride.com to SD chip, then updated my NAV system. There has been several updates for my car, and never had to take it to a dealership. Ford is way ahead on this stuff, and I think it's great. Going to Blackberry can make it even better. The Focus ST can be ordered with this.

[velomateo]

I test drove a new St just a few weeks ago, and did a side-by-side comparison for trunk/bike space with a new Fiesta ST. The Fiesta was too small for my tastes, I never drove it - but I hear it is quite good.
The Focus ST was great, tons of power and it handles good too. I am not really in to electronics, but I do appreciate a good sound system and I like being able to blue-tooth my phone. Not really a NAV guy. So I can't speak on the package that was in the test drive car.
My Mazda 3 is approaching 200K and I will be passing it on to my son soon. The new 3's look nice, but they aren't offering a manual in the Gran Touring package with the 2.5 engine. So the ST is on the top of my short list for a replacement. It was a very fun test drive, the salesman wasn't very skilled when it came to shifting so I gave him a free lesson :banana:

[rugbysecondrow]

I had my eye on the Focus ST in 2012. I was in the market for a sporty hatchback and I really liked the Subaru WRX and the idea of the Focus ST. I wanted to support Ford and the reputation of the vehicle overseas was good, so even though it had not been released in the USA, it was a contender. Ford kept pushing back the release date of the ST and I ended up choosing the WRX, a car I have been very, very happy with. Fun as hell to drive, AWD and winter tires have gotten me through the deepest snow this winter, the hatch and folding seats leaves tons of room for cargo, the interior is well thought out and has tons of room for people, did I mention it is fun as hell to drive?

The Subaru WRX is a car worthy of your attention. 2013 was the last year of the platform that I have, I am not certain what Subaru has in store for the WRX and a hatch model. Best of luck.

[witcombusa]

The Subaru WRX is a car worthy of your attention. 2013 was the last year of the platform that I have, I am not certain what Subaru has in store for the WRX and a hatch model. Best of luck.


Actually 2014 is. The "new" version is a 2015, with the new 2.0 direct injection engine and 6 speed box. The STI will still use the existing 2.5, 305 bhp engine with the new platform in '15.

Without a hatch they will lose sales, guaranteed.

[FlashUNC]

Couple guys locally have them. Big fans. I would have gotten one instead of my GTI if they were available at the time.

The Focus world platform had great reviews and a reputations before coming stateside.

[rugbysecondrow]

Actually 2014 is. The "new" version is a 2015, with the new 2.0 direct injection engine and 6 speed box. The STI will still use the existing 2.5, 305 bhp engine with the new platform in '15.

Without a hatch they will lose sales, guaranteed.

Gotcha, that makes sense. Yeah, I noticed there was no hatch, which I think is a shame. The WRX hatchback is a fantastic vehicle, it really checked all the boxes with the exception of top fuel economy. It does well though for a sporty, AWD vehicle.

Cheers

Paul

[Schmed]

Huge fan of the ST based on what I've read.

Also - rented a regular Focus and the brakes were excellent, handling VERY good, steering nice and firm. The engine in that regular focus was the achilles heel. The ST, of course, fixes that!

The Sync annoyed me a bit - every time you get in and start it, it started playing from my iPhone via bluetooth (good), but after 10 seconds, the voice would come in saying "welcome" or some other BS. A small annoyance, however!

the GTI is probably worth driving as a comparison as is the Mini Cooper.... but.... I'm jonesing for a Focus ST as well!

[thirdgenbird]

I'm interested to see what happens with this 3cyl eccoboost focus. It obviously won't have the power of an ST, but fuel milage should be good and the price lower.

[p nut]

If you want a hatch with lots of utility, look at the Honda Fit. Mine is an 07, but the new 2015 coming out in a few months is supposed to be bigger and get better MPG (41 highway).

I like the Fiesta ST's as well. I would look at one if I were buying today.

[fourflys]

I do think the Fiesta ST would be a bit small for me as I have a teenager and a 5 y/o... the Fiesta doesn't look like it has any trunk space to speak off... The Fit isn't meeting the "Hot Hatch" box for me... I was hot on the idea of a Mini Cooper for a while and even though Ken hasn't had any issues with his, I've read enough on a few Cooper forum to scare me off of them... especially 07+ with the turbos...

I'm a Ford guy at heart since my dad worked there for 37 yrs... that coupled with the fact I can get the "Z" plan which "should" give me the best price (although the USAA auto circle seems like a great est. price) tips the Focus ST in my favor... we plan to make a trip down to Sonoma CA this summer for vacation so hopefully I can find one to test drive... I'll also drive the GTI and Mazdaspeed if I can find them... the WRX is out since they don't make a hatch anymore... this is all assuming I buy new (Ford I would)...

the wife says this is going to be the "last car" so I better make it what I want... we'll see how that plays out (kind of like the "last" bike), but she has a point as we only have two more units once we leave Alaska until I'm forced to retire from the Coast Guard after 30 yrs (only 1 more if I don't make E-9)...

Thanks all and keep it coming!

Chris

[witcombusa]

I do think the Fiesta ST would be a bit small for me as I have a teenager and a 5 y/o... the Fiesta doesn't look like it has any trunk space to speak off... The Fit isn't meeting the "Hot Hatch" box for me... I was hot on the idea of a Mini Cooper for a while and even though Ken hasn't had any issues with his, I've read enough on a few Cooper forum to scare me off of them... especially 07+ with the turbos...

I'm a Ford guy at heart since my dad worked there for 37 yrs... that coupled with the fact I can get the "Z" plan which "should" give me the best price (although the USAA auto circle seems like a great est. price) tips the Focus ST in my favor... we plan to make a trip down to Sonoma CA this summer for vacation so hopefully I can find one to test drive... I'll also drive the GTI and Mazdaspeed if I can find them... the WRX is out since they don't make a hatch anymore... this is all assuming I buy new (Ford I would)...


Chris

The current 2014 WRX is available in a hatch. It's AWD would be a strong bonus up there in AK, No? I also have a 2011 Cooper S and it has been largely problem free(but virtually NO useful space in the back). GTI is small compared to the WRX and to "refined" for my taste. I've also had nothing but problems with the support, well actually LACK of, from VW when I had my last GTI for 12 years.

[fourflys]

The current 2014 WRX is available in a hatch. It's AWD would be a strong bonus up there in AK, No? .

I'm looking at getting the new car when I move from Alaska in 16 months (but who's counting?)... and yes, the Subarus rule up here... ;)

[sg8357]

CR give below average marks to the Focus for "audio system" and "transmission minor", the rest of the marks are good and very good.
The ST version gets a below average reliability marks for "engine minor" and "audio system",
the ST transmission gets the top reliability rating for "transmission major" and transmission minor"


You can buy the car without Sync and the automated manual, the items
that give the car poor ratings. CR doesn't break out manual and automanual
transmission problems. The ST being manual only lets you see the automanual is the problem.

[cnighbor1]

My mechanic is not a big fan of ford Focus he like Japan built or german built
have you also looked at Mazda or Subaru hot hatchbacks
I like that in Subaru's the boxer engine is low and hence the center of gravity is low
than there is the VW GTI
and the VW TDI diesel engine is all new this year
diesels have that low and large torque range and power
My wife's Jetta SW TDI 2003 sure has a lot of low end torgue
charles

[thirdgenbird]

CR give below average marks to the Focus for "audio system" and "transmission minor", the rest of the marks are good and very good.
The ST version gets a below average reliability marks for "engine minor" and "audio system",
the ST transmission gets the top reliability rating for "transmission major" and transmission minor"


You can buy the car without Sync and the automated manual, the items
that give the car poor ratings. CR doesn't break out manual and automanual
transmission problems. The ST being manual only lets you see the automanual is the problem.

I haven't researched it myself, but one source said the "issues" with the automated manual were not really issues. They are mainly customer complaints about shift feel from customers that don't understand the difference between a torque converter transmission and automated manual. It could be a bunch of smoke, but it sounds plausible.

[fourflys]

I haven't researched it myself, but one source said the "issues" with the automated manual were not really issues. They are mainly customer complaints about shift feel from customers that don't understand the difference between a torque converter transmission and automated manual. It could be a bunch of smoke, but it sounds plausible.

for me, I'm only interested in the ST anyway...

[thirdgenbird]

I wish I could right now :)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but it looks like a 2014 version is not a certainty . . .

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-mazda-3-rendering-and-information-news

Great car, goes like stink, great mileage, and I can get 3 bikes in there laid on their sides. I've never understood the complaints about torque-steer the C&D story alludes to. Never really noticed it when I floor it.

BBD

[pjm]

. . . but it looks like a 2014 version is not a certainty . . .

Not 'til 2016 for the next 'speed 3, according to C&D....

OP - wait for the GTI mk VII, coming soon.

[benb]

I know Ford has improved but man.. I had an earlier focus (ZX3) and it was a total POS.. bought it new, it broke down 10x in the first 58,000 miles and broke again after I had traded it while I was waiting for my new car to arrive...

Including:
5X water pumps
2X emissions systems problems
1X broken steering linkage (this was the one that happened after I had traded it)
Many many F-Us from Ford when dealers couldn't reliably fix stuff..

It never really got better than 25mpg average too which was pretty terrible all things considered. Super fun car to drive, way way more fun than a Civic or a Corolla of the same vintage.

I keep seeing the ST compared to the WRX.. the WRX is way more refined in terms of balance, suspension poise, etc.. hard to believe the WRX is considered the more "mature" car after all these years.

[zachateseveryth]

I've had a base model focus hatch for almost a year now. The interior fit and finish, brakes, steering, and manual transmission are all fantastic. The engine isn't anything to write home about, but it'll accelerate pretty well for a base model hatch. You can get three bikes in the back if you remove front wheels and stack them. I can get up to 40 mpg on the highway. It's a great car for going to bike races.

I have a friend with an ST. The car is pretty great from a vehicle dynamics standpoint. It's perfectly capable of violent accelerations, corners like it's on rails, and otherwise will fulfill every boy racer fantasy you might entertain. interior space is basically the same as my car. The one downside is that the center mounted exhaust makes mounting a hitch not super convenient.

[fourflys]

The one downside is that the center mounted exhaust makes mounting a hitch not super convenient.

I did think about the hitch issue... have been contemplating the sea sucker (?) racks... they look scary, but I haven't heard they don't work... or honestly, I don't have any kind of bike that wouldn't fit on a trunk/hatch rack... maybe the fat bike might have some issues, but I'm keeping the Highlander for my daughter anyway so I'll have that as a back-up...

[toytech]

As a mechanic of 30 years, I will take a 4 year old Toyota over a brand new domestic car every time. They are all nice when they are new....

[pjm]

As a mechanic of 30 years, I will take a 4 year old Toyota over a brand new domestic car every time. They are all nice when they are new....
Yeah, if all you care about is reliability than Toyota is the way to go, but I need something that's fun to drive and nothing in Toyota's current line-up meets that requirement.

[toytech]

yeah, if all you care about is reliability than toyota is the way to go, but i need something that's fun to drive and nothing in toyota's current line-up meets that requirement.
frs

[aramis]

I bought a base base model 2001 focus zx3 4 years ago for $1500 and it was one of my favorite cars. Handled well, nice seats, huge hatch area, decent mpg. Lots of little stuff needed to be fixed (valve cover gasket, end links, brake cylinders, engine mount, plastic coolant pipe) but the car drove awesome and could fit a bike without taking off the front wheel. Gave it to my mom, and I think I want to buy another one.

I drove the new focus and I liked it a lot, and the ST looks awesome. I'd also take a look at the Mazdaspeed 3 which I thought was better than the WRX, and Mazda is really good at getting the ergonomics right on cars.

The GTI is really a great car, I just don't know if it's a car I'd want to drive in 5 years though.

Also whoever suggested the FIT.. It's a nice car, but man is that thing underpowered.. not even close on any "hot hatch" kind of decision.

.. and then the whole japanese cars being better than anything domestic, that kind of ended in the 2000's.. my opinion has always been japanese cars hit their peak in 1993-1994 and went slowly downhill from there. I mean the 2001-2006 civic was a piece of crap compared to the earlier ones.

[thirdgenbird]

frs

yeah, but then you just as well get a brz.

[Mikej]

I really don't see a lot of the old model focus on the road. I don't think they were made very well. This leads me to question the current model longevity.

[benb]

I guess the big thing is where are the current ones made.

My POS ZX3 was made in Mexico.. I would not want to buy another Mexican Ford... but most of the newer Fords I've rented have been on another planet in terms of build quality. They have improved a ton.

I am amazed anyone keeps comparing these overpowered FWD hatches to the WRX... One of these types of cars can't put it's power down, has massive torque steer, has too much weight over the front axle, and makes itself fun by loosening up the rear suspension, the other is AWD, has much better balance and lower center of gravity, and is way more refined... I had an RSX Type-S so I kind of get it but all these cars pretty much suck compared to the WRX. (They might be more exciting than the WRX while being slower down a curvy road though.)

People gotta qualify "bike fits in the back too.. no way my bike(s) fit in the back of any of the cars in this thread without taking a wheel off. 2 bikes fit fine in the back of my focus and in the RSX but even my Outback can't swallow my bikes without taking a wheel off or taking the seatpost out or putting both rear seats down. (I never put both seats down because I have a child seat installed) Bike size matters a lot here. 57cm-60cm frames are not going to fit as easily.

[zachateseveryth]

yeah, but then you just as well get a brz.

The FRS is cheaper. Neither car is very bike friendly though.

[FlashUNC]

I am amazed anyone keeps comparing these overpowered FWD hatches to the WRX... One of these types of cars can't put it's power down, has massive torque steer, has too much weight over the front axle, and makes itself fun by loosening up the rear suspension, the other is AWD, has much better balance and lower center of gravity, and is way more refined... I had an RSX Type-S so I kind of get it but all these cars pretty much suck compared to the WRX. (They might be more exciting than the WRX while being slower down a curvy road though.)



The downside of course is having to sit inside a Subaru interior every day. I've been in airport bathrooms with better fit and finish. I test drove a WRX and it was a blast, but no way could I sit in that horrible jumble of plastic and controls that made no sense every day.

[fourflys]

I am amazed anyone keeps comparing these overpowered FWD hatches to the WRX... One of these types of cars can't put it's power down, has massive torque steer, has too much weight over the front axle, and makes itself fun by loosening up the rear suspension, the other is AWD, has much better balance and lower center of gravity, and is way more refined... I had an RSX Type-S so I kind of get it but all these cars pretty much suck compared to the WRX. (They might be more exciting than the WRX while being slower down a curvy road though.)


The WRX is one of the ST's main competitors in any thing you read... it just is...

I'v had a Subaru, nice car for sure... but, they just don't "do it" for me... maybe after 20+ years in the military and two kids, I want something a little more "juvenile"... and in the all the test's I've watched comparing the ST and WRX, both go down the mountain in just about the same time they just the say the ST is more fun while doing it... I'm not a professional driver and will never get paid to drive a car so I'm not worried about a few seconds... I am concerned about the "seat of the pant's fun factor though...

Thanks,
Chris

[thirdgenbird]

The FRS is cheaper. Neither car is very bike friendly though.

The frs is cheaper, but the brz is better equipped. I think toyota tried to save the scion name by marketing the car as a scion here in the states, but anyone over 27 that I've talked to about them would take the brz because of the juvenile scion brand association.

[zachateseveryth]

The frs is cheaper, but the brz is better equipped. I think toyota tried to save the scion name by marketing the car as a scion here in the states, but anyone over 27 that I've talked to about them would take the brz because of the juvenile scion brand association.

Juvenile? Scion is the realm of old people.

[thirdgenbird]

Juvenile? Scion is the realm of old people.

Around these parts, it's the 16-24 year old fast and furious crowd. I've heard people elsewhere say the same.

[zachateseveryth]

Around these parts, it's the 16-24 year old fast and furious crowd. I've heard people elsewhere say the same.

Nationally, the xB is mostly seen as an old person's car. Scion markets towards young people, but old people buy them.

[bargainguy]

My dim recollection was that Ford didn't institute Toyota-style QC on the Focus until '02 or so. The first gen in this country going back to '00 had some issues as a result.

The missus got an '03 ZX5 (5-dr) hatch used back in '08 or so with around 20K. Not a heavily driven car - presently around 55K total - but really the only thing needing replacement was the sway bars around 40K. Of course the car was long out of the 3-yr warranty at that point so it was on us. No other repairs.

Drives well, takes a bike in back whole, good pickup but mpg is lacking with the auto, never better than around 30mpg. She loves it, though.

[thirdgenbird]

Nationally, the xB is mostly seen as an old person's car. Scion markets towards young people, but old people buy them.

Either way, they seems like the 86 would have been best marketed under the toyota name. Toyota needs something more exciting than a pair of pleated kaki pants.

Scion owners are older than toyota's original target, but unless things have changed, there must be a good deal of young customers:

Scion is a relatively youthful brand. In 2011, the average age of Scion buyers was 43 compared to an industry average of 51, according to TrueCar.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120430/carnews/120439999#ixzz2vhP9OgUX
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook

[Netdewt]

The FRS is cheaper. Neither car is very bike friendly though.

Or people friendly. I TRIED to fit in the back seat of one of those.

Either way, they seems like the 86 would have been best marketed under the toyota name.

It was in Europe. We Americans apparently think Scion is cooler.

[Netdewt]

The WRX is one of the ST's main competitors in any thing you read... it just is...

I'v had a Subaru, nice car for sure... but, they just don't "do it" for me... maybe after 20+ years in the military and two kids, I want something a little more "juvenile"... and in the all the test's I've watched comparing the ST and WRX, both go down the mountain in just about the same time they just the say the ST is more fun while doing it... I'm not a professional driver and will never get paid to drive a car so I'm not worried about a few seconds... I am concerned about the "seat of the pant's fun factor though...

Thanks,
Chris

ST is way cheaper though isn't it?

IMO, the GTI is a lot of car for the money. Hatchback, no silly SYNC computer system, 2 or 4 door, easily tunable to 250HP. If only it was RWD...

[thirdgenbird]

Or people friendly. I TRIED to fit in the back seat of one of those.



It was in Europe. We Americans apparently think Scion is cooler.

I've ridden in the back of my dads brz. Not friendly at all. The driver seat is nice though.


It is a toyota everywhere but here and US buyers are swapping badges to toyota.

[fourflys]

ST is way cheaper though isn't it?

IMO, the GTI is a lot of car for the money. Hatchback, no silly SYNC computer system, 2 or 4 door, easily tunable to 250HP. If only it was RWD...

I believe I can get a fully loaded out ST for around $25k at the most... yes, I believe the Subaru is more expensive...

The GTI is a nice car for sure, I just like the more muscular look of the ST... I've not made my mind up yet as I can't find any to drive here on my little Island in Alaska...

[Netdewt]

I can't find any to drive here on my little Island in Alaska...

Haha!

I realize it's far away (is anything close in Alaska?) but I have a friend who grew up in Unalaska.

[Louis]

If you wait just a little while you can get the Alfa 4C

wt < 2000 lbs, 240 hp, 0-100 kph (62 mph) in 4.5 secs

The reviews are spectacular.

Price TBD

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2014-alfa-romeo-4c_100440544_l.jpg

[lemondvictoire]

If you wait just a little while you can get the Alfa 4C

wt < 2000 lbs, 240 hp, 0-100 kph (62 mph) in 4.5 secs

The reviews are spectacular.

Price TBD

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2014-alfa-romeo-4c_100440544_l.jpg

That's Gonna Cost Around 54K + Tax......U Gonna Have Save Some $ Now and Sell Some Bikes..........:no:

[Louis]

That's Gonna Cost Around 54K + Tax......U Gonna Have Save Some $ Now and Sell Some Bikes..........:no:

Or say "Goodbye" to some of the retirement savings. You only live once, and you can't take it with you...

(I thought it was going to be significantly more than $54k)

[Netdewt]

Meh. For that money get a BMW.

[fuzzalow]

Toyota needs something more exciting than a pair of pleated kaki pants.

Scion owners are older than toyota's original target, but unless things have changed, there must be a good deal of young customers:

:p That was a vey apt analogy and worth a chuckle. IMO Toyota builds a very good car more akin to an appliance than a mechanical seductress as like an Alfa Romeo. They don't have a history going back in Motorsport so I 'm not sure that strain of passion is in their DNA.

Honda was racing Formula One back in the 1960's and actually won a race with American Richie Ginther at the wheel.

[rugbysecondrow]

The downside of course is having to sit inside a Subaru interior every day. I've been in airport bathrooms with better fit and finish. I test drove a WRX and it was a blast, but no way could I sit in that horrible jumble of plastic and controls that made no sense every day.

Maybe it is because I opted for the knobs vs electronic climate and radio controls (can't comment on how the electronic controls work), but it really couldn't get much more straight forward and user friendly than my WRX.

There are other options, and I think the ST is one of them, but the fun factor of the WRX factored in with the utility of an AWD Subaru, this winter really proved to me that I made the right decision.

No wrong decision here, IMO though.

[thirdgenbird]

:p That was a vey apt analogy and worth a chuckle. IMO Toyota builds a very good car more akin to an appliance than a mechanical seductress as like an Alfa Romeo. They don't have a history going back in Motorsport so I 'm not sure that strain of passion is in their DNA.

The disappointing thing is not all that long ago they had a supra, celica, and mr2. They have built some some fun cars in their past.

[texbike]

Nationally, the xB is mostly seen as an old person's car. Scion markets towards young people, but old people buy them.

I'm old. I had an Xb (a 2006) and loved it. My prior car was an e39 M5. The M5 infuriated me with its ridiculous maintenance costs and reliability issues. The xB was fun to drive (but not fast) and it had ONE issue (the radio) over four years of ownership. I sold it to buy another BMW. Unfortunately it hasn't been nearly as reliable as the xB was. :(

Back on subject - There are a LOT of really cool, capable cars on the market now. My brother has a 2010 GTI that he absolutely loves. It's had some mild tuning done and really scoots along.

Texbike

[jimcav]

[QUOTE=Louis;1513915]If you wait just a little while you can get the Alfa 4C

wt < 2000 lbs, 240 hp, 0-100 kph (62 mph) in 4.5 secs

The reviews are spectacular.

Price TBD

gonna be at least 2650 lbs here, so slower, and north of $55k, but if you like the look and drive there aren't many mid-engines to choose from. i'd probably get a gently used cayman S, but that's me

[fuzzalow]

The disappointing thing is not all that long ago they had a supra, celica, and mr2. They have built some some fun cars in their past.

Yes and those were darn decent cars for the money. But I can't help but wonder that even those cars were a temporary affectation. Offering those cars laid to something as calculating as buyer demographics and filling gaps in Toyota's product line. As opposed to building a well handling, sportful car at a mass marker price point because Toyoda-san respected a sporting automobile. This respect for motorsport was clearly the case for Shichiro Honda and still influences the company that bears his name.

The driving experience felt across their two stalwart products, the Camry and the Accord, is very different. Even diluted to the level of family sedan, the cars drive with a feel that reflects the DNA strands that their companies behave under.

Ford, to their credit, has done much more right than wrong in their recent history than the other American car companies. I am glad that all of the survivors of the American Rust Belt are building much better cars than from their management v.s. union-worker adversarial past.

[witcombusa]

Yes and those were darn decent cars for the money. But I can't help but wonder that even those cars were a temporary affectation. Offering those cars laid to something as calculating as buyer demographics and filling gaps in Toyota's product line. As opposed to building a well handling, sportful car at a mass marker price point because Toyoda-san respected a sporting automobile. This respect for motorsport was clearly the case for Shichiro Honda and still influences the company that bears his name.

The driving experience felt across their two stalwart products, the Camry and the Accord, is very different. Even diluted to the level of family sedan, the cars drive with a feel that reflects the DNA strands that their companies behave under.

Ford, to their credit, has done much more right than wrong in their recent history than the other American car companies. I am glad that all of the survivors of the American Rust Belt are building much better cars than from their management v.s. union-worker adversarial past.

Personally wouldn't touch an Americam car company product. They have nothing I'm interested in at all. (and saying they are "much better" is hardly high praise)

[thirdgenbird]

Personally wouldn't touch an Americam car company product. They have nothing I'm interested in at all. (and saying they are "much better" is hardly high praise)

Have you driven a ford lately?

[Ken Robb]

Personally wouldn't touch an Americam car company product. They have nothing I'm interested in at all. (and saying they are "much better" is hardly high praise)

But these days so many "imports" are made in the USA that it's tricky to determine which cars are even mostly "American" without reading the statement of origin.

[witcombusa]

Have you driven a ford lately?


Not interested in driving one.

[witcombusa]

But these days so many "imports" are made in the USA that it's tricky to determine which cars are even mostly "American" without reading the statement of origin.

I said "American car company" not made in America (though I would greatly prefer powertrains shipped in if they are assembled here)

[thirdgenbird]

Not interested in driving one.

It sounds like you have no basis for your disdain toward domestic cars then.

[fuzzalow]

Personally wouldn't touch an Americam car company product. They have nothing I'm interested in at all. (and saying they are "much better" is hardly high praise)

No, I truly meant as to offer high praise. That's why I said "much better". If I had intended to confer "hardly high praise" I would have wrote "imperceptibly better" or "marginally better" or "status quo in their build quality which in a globally competitive marketplace is actually losing ground". Or words to that effect. Capish?

I have never owned an American-made automobile. I am not overly proud of that but that is the fault of American car companies to eschew building sport handling cars with world class build qualities until fairly recently. However I may feel towards my own purchase of, or not, of an American automobile is immaterial to the actuality of the advanced strides those car companies have made in the world market.

Anecdotal reality is real but not real enough.

[Netdewt]

Have you driven a ford lately?

I agree, Ford is the only domestic I'd consider currently.

[witcombusa]

It sounds like you have no basis for your disdain toward domestic cars then.

Not from my perspective. I don't like "what" they build. I have seen the cars, driven in a few and read any number of reviews. Since none of these events have made me want to drive one, I'd say that's all I need for "basis".

You go drive one if you like :banana:

[thirdgenbird]

I completely understand your sentiment, but it seems odd to rule out American cars.

Toyota (beyond gt86), honda, and nissan don't make a single car I would consider but that doesn't make me speak down on Japanese cars (as a demographic)

I guess I can see how the big three may not make anything that you like, but I can't imagine that leaves you many other options globally.

[witcombusa]

I completely understand your sentiment, but it seems odd to rule out American cars.

Toyota (beyond gt86), honda, and nissan don't make a single car I would consider but that doesn't make me speak down on Japanese cars (as a demographic)

I guess I can see how the big three may not make anything that you like, but I can't imagine that leaves you many other options globally.

Personally, for cars I have three options. Two Japanese niche vehicles, both rather well modified. Miata for warm and dry and WRX for cold and wet. Third is an BMW E30 325is.

[thirdgenbird]

Personally, for cars I have three options. Two Japanese niche vehicles, both rather well modified. Miata for warm and dry and WRX for cold and wet. Third is an BMW E30 325is.

Alright, with that lens I can see your perspective.

I too am not overly excited about spending my money on ANY current production car. I miss my e21, love my 924s, and am wanting an older 540 sport wagon.

All of that said, if I were shopping for a new car, the Focus ST would be my first test drive (back on topic!)

[fourflys]

All of that said, if I were shopping for a new car, the Focus ST would be my first test drive (back on topic!)


that will be my mission when I go on vacation in Cali this summer...

BTW- hard to call the current Focus, Fiesta, and the new Mustang a "domestic" car anymore since they are all based on the global car platform now... meaning the car you can buy in Indiana is the same exact one you can buy in Europe or Asia... no difference other which side the wheel is on anymore...

[fatallightning]

Not an ST, but I did just get a 2014 Focus Electric. Pure plug in, no gas. They come fully loaded, only option is leather, which I have. So MyFord Touch, back up cam, heated seats, etc etc. Even with the weight of the batteries, and obviously toned down suspension compared to an ST, the peach of a chassis shines through. Electric power steering, so not a ton of feel, but nice heft, and perfect shape. The ultimate grip, due to the high efficiency tires, isn't very high, but it is balanced, with well controlled body motions and crisp turn in. Nice seats and kick ass headlights (the ST3 HID option). The battery cuts into the hatch area on my car, but I can still fit a bike with the front wheel off and the seats down.

This is a daily driver to replace a 16 mph V8 Jag. Fun car is a twerked Lotus Elise, and the Focus still makes me giggle.

[Louis]

Pure plug in, no gas.

Cool.

1) What's the round-trip mileage range, assuming some safety margin?

2) Do you have to have any special electrical stuff done to your home?

3) Have you been tracking your electricity use? How much change in $ compared to what you had to pay for gas?

4) How long will the battery last, and how much to replace it?

I get my electricity from a coal-fired plant - I wonder what's cleaner / dirtier, the power plant or my PZEV Subaru...

[Netdewt]

I get my electricity from a coal-fired plant - I wonder what's cleaner / dirtier, the power plant or my PZEV Subaru...

Same same?

I would guess the electricity is cleaner. A small power source is usually much dirtier than a larger one split up in to pieces.

However, how will the batteries be disposed at end of life?