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oldpotatoe
03-07-2014, 09:27 AM
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/hydror-recall-will-cost-sram-10-15-million-39519

gavingould
03-07-2014, 09:40 AM
http://www.sram.com/company/jobs/senior-hydraulic-brake-design-engineer

that job posting's been up a couple weeks at least. i haven't really talked about the big implications of all this with the people i know who work there.

El Chaba
03-07-2014, 09:55 AM
I have lost count of their recalls...

bargainguy
03-07-2014, 10:56 AM
So the problem was a change from preproduction to production? A tweak? That's a heck of a tweak - wonder what it was.

oldpotatoe
03-07-2014, 11:14 AM
So the problem was a change from preproduction to production? A tweak? That's a heck of a tweak - wonder what it was.

There is another article where the CEO 'implies' a problem with the production items not being as precise as requested, oval cylinder vice a round one.

Perhaps owning the factory is called for, maybe even in the US.

Righto, that'll happen.

Why is Force almost the same $ as Chorus?

DfCas
03-07-2014, 11:17 AM
Anybody know how big Sram is to survive a hit like this? Yearly sales?

oldpotatoe
03-07-2014, 11:19 AM
Anybody know how big Sram is to survive a hit like this? Yearly sales?

They gross 'about' $550,000,000 per yer.

I think when you don't 'own' your production but sublet all of it to offshore manufacturers, the majority in Taiwan, not surprised.

gospastic
03-07-2014, 11:33 AM
They do own factories...

ultraman6970
03-07-2014, 11:49 AM
Now they now, do a super cold environment test before going to production.

550 million? wow!

rwsaunders
03-07-2014, 12:57 PM
http://www.sram.com/company/jobs/senior-hydraulic-brake-design-engineer

that job posting's been up a couple weeks at least. i haven't really talked about the big implications of all this with the people i know who work there.

Hopefully, the brake design engineer works more closely with this individual....

http://www.sram.com/company/jobs/director-quality-asia

soulspinner
03-07-2014, 01:29 PM
There is another article where the CEO 'implies' a problem with the production items not being as precise as requested, oval cylinder vice a round one.

Perhaps owning the factory is called for, maybe even in the US.

Righto, that'll happen.

Why is Force almost the same $ as Chorus?

The force chorus thing has me too..........has me riding chorus!!!!!!;)

bfd
03-07-2014, 01:37 PM
Why is Force almost the same $ as Chorus?

Good marketing! Chorus is 2nd in Campy's lineup. Force is 2nd in Sram's lineup. So naturally, mfrs will compare "apples to apples:"
SR/Rec=DA=Red;
Chorus=Ultegra=Force;
Centaur=105=Rival

Yes, YOU may be able distinguish the difference, but 90% of the buying population will look at the above and accept it.

Btw, I doubt very many people will be able to distinguish between SR and Rec, so expect dealers who don't sell Campy to group them together! :eek:

Further, I believe Force is lighter than Chorus, so again, 90% of the sheeps, excuse me, buyers will look and say the comparison is right!

Besides, how else is Sram going to make up that 10M-15M they just loss on hydraulic brakes....

Good Luck! :(:eek::butt::no:

oldpotatoe
03-07-2014, 01:42 PM
Good marketing! Chorus is 2nd in Campy's lineup. Force is 2nd in Sram's lineup. So naturally, mfrs will compare "apples to apples:"
SR/Rec=DA=Red;
Chorus=Ultegra=Force;
Centaur=105=Rival

Yes, YOU may be able distinguish the difference, but 90% of the buying population will look at the above and accept it.

Btw, I doubt very many people will be able to distinguish between SR and Rec either!

Further, Force weighs about the same or lighter than Chorus, so again, 90% of the sheeps, excuse me, buyers will look and say the comparison is right!

Besides, how else is Sram going to make up that 10M-15M they just loss....

Good Luck! :(:eek::butt::no:

Well, ya know Chorus is third and SR in terms of materials anyway, makes it top tier, none other compare...why it's expensive..kinda like a Gold/Stainless Rolex VS a 18k gold one.

YOWSER

thirdgenbird
03-07-2014, 02:10 PM
So the problem was a change from preproduction to production? A tweak? That's a heck of a tweak - wonder what it was.

What concerns me is that they said they were surprised by the failures because they didn't show up in their extensive testing. Extensive testing is near meaningless if you make preproduction changes. They then go on to explain their improved testing processes that I would consider standard protocol. If these processes didn't exist prior to this failure, I would say they did marginal testing of a preproduction part and then produced an untested product. If this is true at any level, I would expect failure.

JAGI410
03-07-2014, 05:09 PM
They could have saved face by announcing the following:

"Hey, we realized hydro road brakes are stupid, ugly, and unnessessary. We're embarrassed for following this horrible trend and will be recalling everything. Sorry everyone."

;)

Charles M
03-07-2014, 06:52 PM
Loads of ignorant BS/snark in here, some other viable questions.


This was a production issue.

They tested EXACTLY what they put into production and the factory didnt hold tolerance... They didnt change something on paper/file and build anything without testing...

It (the produced tolerance) was VERY close to spec. They tested production pieces successfully as well.

I have several hundred miles on both rim and disc versions and they perform perfectly...

Loads of people had no issue at all.




But when pushed in relatively extreme temps (still temps that the gear should work in mind you), the production flaw presented...

They pulled it back VERY quickly. They have the financial stability to easily handle this issue...

And they've changed testing so that big temp swings will also be monitored more closely.



Yeah it's bad. It's a mistake for sure.

But some of the misguided speculation could easily run away with it's self and take a life of it's own without clarification... Thought I would clear some of it early...

thirdgenbird
03-07-2014, 06:55 PM
Thanks for the info Charles. That's not at all what the article I saw eluded to. It directly said they made a change prior to production.

I still stand by my testing comment though. The "new" testing process outlined in the video is what I would have expected from the beginning.

Edit:
Extensive testing was done in the lab and in the field, Day said.

"There were some small changes from pre-production to production products and it was in those adjustments that the problem came," Day said.

SRAM issued a total recall on December 13.

Now SRAM has put an environmental chamber into use as part of its testing regiment. "It wasn’t a tool that we had used in development," Day said. "We thought field testing was adequate. The weekend after the (Dec. 7) failure we began using that tool, to begin digging into the cause. One of the things historically that we found is that laboratory testing is very important but you can’t test for everything in a lab. We thought we were covered; we weren’t covered." from bike radar

Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue (or ignorance?), but that to me sounds like they tested a part and then made changes. I'm also not sure I want to be riding something that suffers complete failure if it is "VERY close to spec". What reassurance do I have that VERY minor seal or bore wear doesn't result in the same failure mode? I've been a part of testing cylinders. We would intentionally side load, wear, and damage cylinders to learn how close to failure our design was. Yes, we have had production errors, but sram's process looks like it was missing some key elements. Hopefully the changes they have implemented improves this, and their other products.

I also can't get behind calling testing extensive if an environmental chamber is not used.

CNY rider
03-07-2014, 07:20 PM
For some companies the biggest "cost" would be the damage done to their reputation for producing quality products.
That's not something SRAM has to worry about.

John H.
03-07-2014, 07:51 PM
No way it can cost them that much unless they are already getting sued for hurting someone.
There weren't that many brakesets out there.

likebikes
03-07-2014, 08:20 PM
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/hydror-recall-will-cost-sram-10-15-million-39519

this is an almost 2 month old article. is this something you just heard about now or....?

oldpotatoe
03-08-2014, 08:05 AM
They could have saved face by announcing the following:

"Hey, we realized hydro road brakes are stupid, ugly, and unnessessary. We're embarrassed for following this horrible trend and will be recalling everything. Sorry everyone."

;)

tee hee