New Frame - Staick with Ti or go Carbon?

[Vamoots58]

I'm about to turn 50 and am treating myself to a new ride. Currently riding a Vamoots CR. Was a 15yr mtn biker before switching almost exclusively to the road. MTB's were all Ti (Chester, Moots, Jones). Was going to go the Ti custom route this time around with IF or Seven, but keep finding myself drawn to the Colnago C59 (I believe the C60 is on the horizon, so would likely wait for that). Love to hear opinions from those who went form Ti to carbon. Thank you in advance.

[pcxmbfj]

I suppose carbon is fine for the road but I never trusted it in the woods.

Even for the road I prefer my Lynsky to my carbon Tarmac but we are both old enough to do whatever we want.;)

Didn't read your post closely enough so forgive my wandering of topic.

[soulspinner]

Im 58 and have a couple steel customs and a Cervelo stock bike. My next one is ti because Im not gentle with my stuff and the ti bike has to last cause when I am retired, I wont have as much cash to spend on bikes.

[mcteague]

In my 50s as well and rode Ti for the last two frames. For the latest, I tested some all carbon but went for a mix of carbon tubes and Ti lugs & chainstays. The Seven 622 SLX has both materials and, while I used to have doubts about that style, I just love the thing. No regrets.

Tim

[Cat3roadracer]

Have the Moots refinished. Done.

[dekindy]

Road racer that I have seen for several years on a training ride I attend weekly switched from titanium to carbon; wishes he has stayed titanium. He is much younger than you so that is his excuse. You are old enough to know better. Stick with something you can trust and not something that is suspect if it falls over and hits the ground.

Like the guy says, unless you are rolling in dough stick with a material that lasts. If you absolutely have to do something different, go stainless steel. My LBS cleaned my Serotta Legend frame up really well and I hit it with a pad that I got from the builder at Roark when I took a factory tour prior to an annual weekend club ride they host and it almost looks brand new!

[biker72]

It took a few years but I went from carbon to Ti.
I had a Trek 5200..full carbon with Ultegra. Nice light bike.
I now have a Seven Axiom Ti with Campy 11. Much better ride. At my age I'm more into comfort.

I've got 3 bikes..all metal with carbon forks. Two aluminum and one Ti.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm about to turn 50 and am treating myself to a new ride. Currently riding a Vamoots CR. Was a 15yr mtn biker before switching almost exclusively to the road. MTB's were all Ti (Chester, Moots, Jones). Was going to go the Ti custom route this time around with IF or Seven, but keep finding myself drawn to the Colnago C59 (I believe the C60 is on the horizon, so would likely wait for that). Love to hear opinions from those who went form Ti to carbon. Thank you in advance.

Get a Moots RSL with internal EPS..done..get some tubulars also...c'mon ya nancy...

[terry]

I vote for carbon-seems like you've had lots of experience with TI so I think you should try something different.

[thunderworks]

I primarily ride Ti. I have several different Lynskey bikes and really love them - particularly the R330.

Having said that however, I bought a NOS Cervelo R5 last summer and find myself riding it more and more. It's comfortable (but not more so than the Lynskey) and is really responsive and fast. I'm 63 years old, and a capable rider, but not fast. I am faster on the R5 than on the Ti bikes (relatively faster, but still not "fast"). One of my riding buddies is quite strong. I taker the R5 when he and I ride alone - knowing that we'll work hard in the bike. In a larger, more mixed group, or on a longer ride, I take one of the Ti bikes.

At my skill level, the differences might be more imagined than real, but I think the carbon bike is faster than the Ti R330. Both are fun bikes.

I can't remember the point (if I ever had one) that I'm making. I'm glad I have both Ti and carbon. I ride both, Enjoy both and am thankful I have the opportunity to ride either.

OP . . . No bad choices and no single right answer to your question.

[zap]

I vote for carbon-seems like you've had lots of experience with TI so I think you should try something different.

echo.

but, go out and see if you can take a spin on a 'nago or 'pina or.

Also, don't forget Crumpton and other small carbon composite builders.

ok, time to go for a ride before the next snow storm gets here………….

[Mikej]

Custom ti - I feel unfaithful even swinging a leg over cf.

[dekindy]

At my skill level, the differences might be more imagined than real, but I think the carbon bike is faster than the Ti R330. Both are fun bikes.

That is for dang sure!;)

[bobswire]

I'd go with Ti for custom and get one if these in CF to try just for the hell of it .
http://www.greatkeenbike.com/show_imgnews.asp?id=794

[Black Dog]

Rode steel for over 20 years, picked up a CF bike about 6 years ago, rode it a lot for a few years. Now I ride steel and Ti. Do not miss CF at all. If you want a bike for life get steel or Ti. Go for fit, get a custom. Your gut already knows what you want, just follow it to CF or Ti.

[AngryScientist]

you've already got one of the best ti bikes out there. colnago makes one hell of a bike, that's the route i would go. another ti bike will be more redundant than the 'nago. go for it!

[veloduffer]

I have ridden steel (still have a Sachs, aluminum (for racing), lots of ti (Merlin, Seven, Serotta, Moots, Litespeed and Spectrum) and was an early adapter of carbon. I think you should at least test ride carbon. I've ridden high end production models including the 2013 Cannondale, and Trek Madone. My fav carbon is still my Parlee Z4 with the Cannondale 2nd. It's lively yet stiff for instant response to the pedals. I test rode it before I bought and really liked it from the get go. My Spectrum is similar in ride (very compact design) but weighs about 2 lbs more. If you want a comfortable ride for gravel and rough roads, the Moots was great at smoothing out the rough stuff.

So try a few bikes out before you decide, it might open your eyes.

[tigoat]

you've already got one of the best ti bikes out there. colnago makes one hell of a bike, that's the route i would go. another ti bike will be more redundant than the 'nago. go for it!

I will second this suggestion. Once you have a Moots it will be hard to own anything else for a Ti frame including any custom. I have been riding custom Ti bikes for 10 years now so I would like to switch over to carbon, again, as I started out riding a carbon bike. I have been eyeing that Colnago C59 Disc because its dimensions come very close to my ideal design and I hope that my temptation will not bust open my wallet anytime soon.

[bobswire]

I really enjoy reading threads that ask for suggestions because you'll never find the definitive answer and you'll end up choosing a suggestion that matches what your "gut" was telling you anyway.

http://i60.tinypic.com/2e19h1d.jpg

[Idris Icabod]

I've got a Colnago C59, a Moots Compact SL and a Mercian 853 custom steel for my road bike stable. My Moots is 10 years old and is still my favorite out of the three road bikes. There is definitely a different feel to all three and my preference is the Ti. I agree with others, since you already have a pretty damn nice Ti bike why not try something different. All my bikes are mechanical Campy, I would love to try electronic, so my vote is a C59 with eps. If I was adding (and keeping the others) I'd for sure order an eps-ready frame out of Ti and probably with Mike DeSalvo or Firefly.

[pdmtong]

IMHO is possible to improve upon the CR depending on goals
RSL will be stiffer and build up 200g lighter
Invest in custom geo if you want a more dialed fit. 44mm headtube if you are a big guy
And of course electric drilling

Carbon can deliver a great ride. Move to carbon versus CR or RSL for more snap and to get into the 13-15# range.

My CR has a RSL fork - more front end stiffness. It absolutely rails down hill
Also riding a Parlee z3c. Beautiful over 100/10,000 as well.

Both great. Both different.

If me I would chase a superlight electric carbon the then you would have the best of both

I don't buy into the lifetime bike thing.
How many here would want to be riding a 20 year old then state if the art bike versus what we have today ? Times change. Life is short

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/pe9e8a8y.jpg

[beeatnik]

I agree with angry above. Get the C60.

If I had to give up my Compact Sl for a C60, it would be toughest non-critical decision of my life.

[chomeo]

^^ I'd echo Scientist's words up there also. you've gotten some of the best ti bikes out there and it'll be hard to beat with another Ti bike. different being the builder's philosophy on frame and building characteristic. I'd say go with CF. i don't own any CF but if i was to get one, the C59 is on top of the list.

[happycampyer]

It's not clear from your op whether you plan on keeping the Moots, or if you were going to replace it with the new bike.

If you were planning on keeping the Moots, then a carbon bike would provide an interesting counterpoint. The C59/C60 would be different enough that it would tease out what you like or don't like in terms of qualities (stiffness, smoothness, handling, etc.). After riding them for a while, you might decide, "I like the handling of the Colnago, but prefer the ride quality of the Moots—maybe I should have a custom ti bike made with a geometry closer to the Colnago..." or vice versa ("I like the quicker handling of the Moots, but I prefer the stiffness/snappiness of the Colnago—maybe I should get a _____ (insert name of stock carbon bike with more aggressive geo) or get a custom carbon bike (Crumpton, Parlee, etc.) that blends the characteristics that I like..."). Or you find that you like one of them decidedly better than the other, keep it and sell the other... or like them both for different reasons and keep them both, and ride one or the other as the mood strikes... You get the idea.

If you're planning on selling the Moots (and, I suppose, even if you weren't), it would be a good idea to ask yourself what you're really looking for in a bike. I have found that it's very easy to buy a bike for irrational reasons—the bike one thinks one wants/needs—rather than for rational ones. Unless you get custom geo, the geo of the RSL is even more aggressive than the CR—is that what you really want/need? The RSL and the C59 are also stiffer—again, is that really what you want/need? It's very easy to chase rainbows.

I could go through the laundry list of bikes I own or have owned and tell you my preferences, but you may prefer my castoffs to my keepers.

[christian]

If you're considering carbon, I think you should get a C59, level top tube, PR99, rather than a C60. C60 is BB30 nonsense and sloping only. (I am resisting every urge to do this myself.) It won't have that lifetime feel of good titanium, but based on my experience with a prior C-series bike, it's just a really unbelievably great race bike.

[christian]

you may prefer my castoffs to my keepers.Indeed! (my Colnago used to belong to Happycampyer)

[dhalbrook]

I haven't ridden *modern* ti (owned a Merlin MTB and a Litespeed road bike in the 90s) but I find my Calfee Tetra more comfortable than anything I've ever ridden on the road and it has a 25 year warranty. That said, if you want it to last forever, it's hard to beat Ti. In 25 years it will just be getting started.

[russd32]

Ti all the way. If you've got the $$ to get one built to your specs you can't go wrong.

[weisan]

It's not the material.

[enr1co]

This >>>

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/pe9e8a8y.jpg

I sold off my Ti ( MA made Merlin) a few years ago to fund a carbon. Enjoy the frisky, responsive and comfortable ride that carbon provides and tried a few different makes. Eventually got myself a C59 and then traded to a C59 EPS but had always missed that nice "je ne sais quoi" ride of Ti. With all the informative Moots love and feedback from this forum, I was primed to jump on one when a nice deal presented itself and it did. They are both a joy to ride-have been tempted to change my user name to "happycamper 2" :)

Hang on to the Moots and add that C59 (or 60 or any other well received carbon frame) you are inclined- it's nice to have choices.

BTW- I think you need to post some pics of your Moots in return for all this great feedback being provided ;)

[martl]

Don't ask me, I sold myTi and bought steel

[oldpotatoe]

I'm about to turn 50 and am treating myself to a new ride. Currently riding a Vamoots CR. Was a 15yr mtn biker before switching almost exclusively to the road. MTB's were all Ti (Chester, Moots, Jones). Was going to go the Ti custom route this time around with IF or Seven, but keep finding myself drawn to the Colnago C59 (I believe the C60 is on the horizon, so would likely wait for that). Love to hear opinions from those who went form Ti to carbon. Thank you in advance.

Altho ti and steel, are pretty similar in how they are put together, resulting is 'similar' ride characteristics..there are as many ways to make carbon into a bike frame as there are carbon bike frames, so......they all ride differently, some drastically so.
So, if possible, I would try to take an extensive test ride on say a C-59..then decide..that may be tough tho. After dropping huge $ on a nago or Storck or something, you may not like how it rides, particularly when compared to a Moots, which rides really well, IMHO(I have a Vamoots).

[Tony T]

Since you already have an excellent Ti ride, get the Colnago (or another Carbon frame — Cannonade has a nice top end frame), but, but buy the frame and do the build yourself. If you haven't done so already, consider a professional fit, and use the measurements for a custom (but, Colnago has so many stock sizes, you probably won't need to get a custom frame).

Are you going for straight or sloping top tube?

[tiretrax]

I suggest you rent a carbon bike for a week and ride it on the same routes you take normally. Then, compare how it feels to the Moots. I owned several top end C bikes and sold them. I don't anticipate buying another. The ride quality of a great Ti bike is superior IMHO, and the fragility of carbon and the extra care it requires helped me decide to stick with Ti in the future.

[Charles M]

I didn't read all the posts...

Does anyone break down what they want in a bike and why one gives it to them versus the other?


At days end, someone has to quantify what they're looking for first. At that point maybe someone else could answer the material differences...

Any generalized statements about material without calling out how it was used are completely BS...

Both Ti and Carbon can be made stiff or flexy or heavy or lite or overly rigid or lively or.....

I hate threads that assume that all of the work and character of ANY bike is over and done with once a builder buys a tube set of X material...

I would go get a C59 and see if it's what you like. If not, what would you want different...



The generic "Ti" or "Carbon" thing really is complete and total crap.

[zap]

The ride quality of a great Ti bike is superior IMHO, and the fragility of carbon and the extra care it requires helped me decide to stick with Ti in the future.

I'm guessing you don't get on an airplane that takes you up in the skies.

Much depends on construction with any material. Built by the wrong hands titanium (steel and aluminum and carbon composites too) can break, and ti cracks propagate faster than anything else. Well, excepting a sheet of paper.

Christ, even highly touted steel frames with incredibly high resale values have been known to ummmm, psssst, fail.

It's snowing…..again….. and its getting colder…..again and I'm getting grumpy.

[tiretrax]

I'm guessing you don't get on an airplane that takes you up in the skies.

Much depends on construction with any material. Built by the wrong hands titanium (steel and aluminum and carbon composites too) can break, and ti cracks propagate faster than anything else. Well, excepting a sheet of paper.

Christ, even highly touted steel frames with incredibly high resale values have been known to ummmm, psssst, fail.

It's snowing…..again….. and its getting colder…..again and I'm getting grumpy.
I love road trips (and cold weather). Yes, any material can fail, but I haven't had a metal part fail while I've had a carbon bar, seatpost and frame crack. The bar and seatpost failures occured on the road. It was a long, slow trip home.

Walmart says Carbon with EPS
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/walmarts-wave-concept-truck-fuel-efficient-future-semis-163539377.html

[Ralph]

Get what you want. Don't know if anyone on here is reinforcing what you already want to do or not, but asking us about Ti VS CF is like asking which is better.....Campy or Shimano.....that discussion never ends.

I had same decision ro make recently, and went with custom tig steel with Enve fork. Maybe I'm giving up a lb to the more exotic materials, but I like how my bike rides. And besides.....I need to lose about 10 lbs off my body before I complain about frame weight.

[buddybikes]

Get best of both worlds and be done with it:
1697876490

[tv_vt]

You've got Ti now, why not get a carbon fiber frame to mix it up a bit. I have both and like the variety.

[beeatnik]

OP, what's the groupset on your Moots?

[happycampyer]

I love John Coltrane's Blue Train on Blue Note, but will I like his Impulse albums?

OP, what's the groupset on your Moots?You already have some Coltrane, so I would recommend some Miles Davis.

[beeatnik]

You already have some Coltrane, so I would recommend some Miles Davis.

Haha. Nice one.

[fogrider]

get what ever you'r interested in...but if you can't decide between ti and carbon, go with this: http://hollandcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Bike1_0001_2_v2-Exogrid1.jpg
life is too short to go through without great riding bikes. I have my legend ti setup as my training bike, my scandium rock lobster setup for climbing and I'm going to be building up a steel ron cooper as my all round bike...after that the hunt continues...

[jr59]

Get what will make you want to ride it everyday. You know the bike that you want to ride even when it cold and raining/sneauxing out!

Ti, carbon, steel, or whatever you wish. It's about your enjoyment. Not ours.

Ride your ride!

[bobswire]

Interesting this thread keeps trucking along as though there is a conversation going yet there is no reply or follow up from the originator.

[Lionel]

You already have a nice Ti frame. Go custom carbon, call Nick Crumpton.

[George Ab]

Looking forward to the OP decision.

For me, with a one great Ti bike, I would add a great carbon. The question would then become, lugged carbon or monocoque. With your leanings toward the Colnago C59 sounds like you are on the right track.

[Vamoots58]

OP, what's the groupset on your Moots?

Campy Super Record - ENVE seat post - Moots Stem - Ergonova bar

Two sets of wheels depending on conditions and ride

CK R45 / ENVE 6.7 / CX-Ray - Clincher
CK R45 / ENVE 25 / CX-Ray - Tubs

[Vamoots58]

i have been periodically checking on the post, but have not had a lot of time to read through carefully...until now(work keeps getting in the way). I appreciate all of the responses! I have recently narrowed my focus down to two frames. The Seven Elium SL and Parlee Z3. I have been intrigued by the things I have read about the new C60, but I gather the price tag is about $6200. I am very tempted by all of the history embedded in Ernesto's frames, but for that kind of $$$ just feel like I should get something custom. Am planning a Parlee test ride from the LBS. He used to carry Colnago, and while he is pressed to find a reason not to buy a Colnago, he did say that when it comes to support from the builder, there is no comparison between Parlee and Nago. I will be deciding by month's end. Again, thank you to all who took the time to read and respond!!

[oldpotatoe]

i have been periodically checking on the post, but have not had a lot of time to read through carefully...until now(work keeps getting in the way). I appreciate all of the responses! I have recently narrowed my focus down to two frames. The Seven Elium SL and Parlee Z3. I have been intrigued by the things I have read about the new C60, but I gather the price tag is about $6200. I am very tempted by all of the history embedded in Ernesto's frames, but for that kind of $$$ just feel like I should get something custom. Am planning a Parlee test ride from the LBS. He used to carry Colnago, and while he is pressed to find a reason not to buy a Colnago, he did say that when it comes to support from the builder, there is no comparison between Parlee and Nago. I will be deciding by month's end. Again, thank you to all who took the time to read and respond!!

When I sold Colnago, imported thru TrialTir, this place undersold everything Colnago

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

and still do......

When we asked Trialtir 'how come', their answer was for us to lower our retail prices(nope)...NOT them lowering theirs or 'Ernesto' doing anything about Maestro..so....adios Colnago....

Also sold Parlee and that company is first rate..talked to Bob personally more than once and except for them raising their retail prices 40%, they make a great frame..Z-1-Z-3...Z-4/5 asian made, nice frames but not sure why they are so expensive.

[bking]

I only started riding 10 years ago, at 48. I Went trek carbon, bmc carbon, colnago c50, carbon. Then tried Ti with Seven--the elium and axiom. Very nice. Been steel ever since. Just bought a second steel bike from Dave Kirk, and my next purchase may be another Ti from Firefly. Such beautiful stuff.
that said, I'd encourage you to look at a steel custom from Dario Pegoretti. I have two, the Marcelo and Responsorium. The Responsorium is an all day, any day ride. And let him have his way with the paint.
You'll thank me.