Changes coming to the Hour Record...

[FlashUNC]

Looks like they'll be doing away with this dual-record nonsense. Bring back Boardman and the super bikes! Would also explain why Cancellara is being coy about setting a date...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/02/bikes-and-tech/hour-record-regulations-could-see-changes-by-mid-year_318195

[alessandro]

bring back Graeme Obree and and the home-made bikes!

Fify.

[ceolwulf]

It's odd, I love the 90s superbikes, but the more I think about it the more I conclude the "athlete's hour" was a really good idea. If you're actually trying to compare human performance and not human+machine performance that is. Which might be a fool's errand when it comes to cycling. Dunno. Good thing they're not asking me I guess :)

[soulspinner]

it's odd, i love the 90s superbikes, but the more i think about it the more i conclude the "athlete's hour" was a really good idea. If you're actually trying to compare human performance and not human+machine performance that is. Which might be a fool's errand when it comes to cycling. Dunno. Good thing they're not asking me i guess :)

+1

[MattTuck]

Seriously? The UCI continues to be a boob.

They changed the rules on Boardman weeks (I think) before his attempt. And now that there is a credible threat to a new record time, they're doing it all over again.

This, in my opinion, is the UCI trying take the spotlight from the actual athletes and is basically a power play. As far as I'm concerned, Cancellara should just do the record as he wants to do it, record everything, and let public opinion decide if it is a valid record attempt.

I'd rather see regulations persist that limits bikes as much as possible so you can compare (as best you can) performances across time.

The reason the record attempts have declined has nothing to do with the rules or the bikes, it is the fact that it is really really hard to set a faster record. And riders know it. And don't feel it is worth it to put in the work.

[tiretrax]

Seriously? The UCI continues to be a turkey farm.

They changed the rules on Boardman weeks (I think) before his attempt. And now that there is a credible threat to a new record time, they're doing it all over again.

This, in my opinion, is the UCI trying take the spotlight from the actual athletes and is basically a power play. As far as I'm concerned, Cancellara should just do the record as he wants to do it, record everything, and let public opinion decide if it is a valid record attempt.

I'd rather see regulations persist that limits bikes as much as possible so you can compare (as best you can) performances across time.

The reason the record attempts have declined has nothing to do with the rules or the bikes, it is the fact that it is really really hard to set a faster record. And riders know it. And don't feel it is worth it to put in the work.
+1 with change

[Stephen2014]

It should be about the evolution of talent and achievement and bikes. Unless we go back to 1800s nutrition, training and bikes

[Grant McLean]

Watt meters and stationary bikes?

Personally, I think they should let them use contemporary pursuit bikes.
If those rules are good enough for World Cup and championships,
why not the hour? Otherwise, they're left with Keirin bikes and not
many riders who would attempt the record.

[FlashUNC]

It should be about the evolution of talent and achievement and bikes. Unless we go back to 1800s nutrition, training and bikes

Watt meters and stationary bikes?

Personally, I think they should let them use contemporary pursuit bikes.
If those rules are good enough for World Cup and championships,
why not the hour? Otherwise, they're left with Keirin bikes and not
many riders who would attempt the record.

This is the perspective I take. The Hour is both a combination of technology and human ability. Didn't Merckx use the latest and greatest available to him to set the record? Didn't Coppi?

Why hamstring current contenders for the crown?

[fiamme red]

This is the perspective I take. The Hour is both a combination of technology and human ability. Didn't Merckx use the latest and greatest available to him to set the record? Didn't Coppi?

Why hamstring current contenders for the crown?This man already broke Boardman's record. ;)

http://www.recumbent-gallery.eu/wp-content/uploads/rekord4-590x392.jpg

[CunegoFan]

This is the perspective I take. The Hour is both a combination of technology and human ability. Didn't Merckx use the latest and greatest available to him to set the record? Didn't Coppi?

Why hamstring current contenders for the crown?

Because it becomes meaningless if it comes down to changes in the bikes.

If you want to make it an engineering contest then why not allow fairings or recumbents? If those are not allowed then the line is being drawn somewhere, so why not draw it at a point where comparisons can be made with rides done in the past?

[Grant McLean]

Because it becomes meaningless if it comes down to changes in the bikes.

If you want to make it an engineering contest then why not allow fairings or recumbents? If those are not allowed then the line is being drawn somewhere, so why not draw it at a point where comparisons can be made with rides done in the past?

It's not an engineering contest.

The problem is that comparisons cannot be made with the past anyway,
and it's a mistake to try. My 13 year old niece can do better tricks
than Evel Knievel did decades ago, a high school basketball team
could beat the '64 Celtics. The context and training is different.
Allowing them to ride contemporary UCI sanctioned bikes just reinforces
the reality that sports takes place in a temporal context.

[tiretrax]

This is the perspective I take. The Hour is both a combination of technology and human ability. Didn't Merckx use the latest and greatest available to him to set the record? Didn't Coppi?

Why hamstring current contenders for the crown?

The changes in tech are the reason that there was a split record. It makes sense. The difference in bike tech were incremental until the late 80's.

[fiamme red]

My 13 year old niece can do better tricks
than Evel Knievel did decades ago, a high school basketball team
could beat the '64 Celtics.I suppose plenty of high school teams today have the combined athletic talents of Bill Russell, John Havlicek, and Sam Jones? :rolleyes:

[Mark McM]

This is the perspective I take. The Hour is both a combination of technology and human ability. Didn't Merckx use the latest and greatest available to him to set the record? Didn't Coppi?

No, of course not. Merckx and Coppi never held the record for furthest ridden by a human on a bicycle - they only held the record for furthest ridden by a human on a UCI approved bicycle. Neither Coppi nor Merckx rode further than Francois Faure rode in 1938 (50.53 miles). But UCI didn't like Faure bicycle, which was a recumbent with a rear fairing, so they made there own rules about the types of bicycles they would allow.

[Stephen2014]

Interestingly Merckx made his bike slower than it would have been - drilled holes and aerodynamics.

[bikinchris]

So we have a group who wants riders to use wool jerseys, wooden rims, 1 inch pitch chains and 36 spoke wheels with a lot of guts, but not much science.
We have another group who wants to use aero bars, aero bikes, wheels and shark skin aero suits with heart rate and watt training.
Those two groups seem to be unable to reconcile their opinions. Maybe some mix of the two? I don't know. This seems to go round and round.

People are not going to ride two hour records. would you?

As for the lawn chair on wheels group. Well, their is no help for them.

[bikingshearer]

. . . . a high school basketball team
could beat the '64 Celtics.

I get that you are trying to make a point, but, uh, no. I don't think many NBA teams in the last 10 years could beat a Bill Russell-led Celtics team, assuming they play by real basketball rules (meaning calling trivial things like traveling, palming, stuff like that). Today's players are more athletic, no doubt about it, but they are also very weak fundamentally. Too many NBA "teams" today are really collections of individuals. The Celtics were a true team, and that was how they won.

[/hijack]

AS to the Hour Record rules, I have been and remain torn. One the one hand, the changes in bike tech, beginning with Moser, made the Hour Record a whole different endeavor from what it had been up through Merckx's record and Ole Ritter's failed attempt to take it back. Boardman has said that getting the Merckx record was far harder than getting the unlimited record, even with going 6 kms less distance. That says a lot, in my book.

On the other hand, the Hour has always been about both the man and the machine. We still see stories about how the bike Colnago built for Merckx's Hour was such a modern marvel and how it was lighter and better and faster than anything that had gone before. That Colnago bore only a passing resemblance to the bike Henri Desgrange used to set the first Hour Record in 1890-something.

Up until now, I have come down ever so slightly in the side of using Merckx-type bikes, and I certainly am not dogmatic about it. What Cooksen is saying the UCI will be looking into sounds like a reasonable inquiry to me. They may find that it is unworkable for some reason I certainly cannot think of off the top of my head, but using a sanctioned TT/pursuit bike for Hour Record attempts sounds like a reasonable thing to look into.

[FlashUNC]

No, of course not. Merckx and Coppi never held the record for furthest ridden by a human on a bicycle - they only held the record for furthest ridden by a human on a UCI approved bicycle. Neither Coppi nor Merckx rode further than Francois Faure rode in 1938 (50.53 miles). But UCI didn't like Faure bicycle, which was a recumbent with a rear fairing, so they made there own rules about the types of bicycles they would allow.

Which is one point the UCI has been consistent about. It has to be something in the ballpark of the design of the original "safety frame." No recumbents/fairings, etc.

So why not just let folks exist within that broad box -- you gotta sit on the thing, not in it -- and let innovation take place from there?

Sure, Merckx made himself slower with the drillium, but he thought was on the cutting edge of science at the time. If he had access to a Boardman wonder bike, or Obree's position, you'd be darn sure he'd have used it.

Not their fault that Anquetil, Coppi and Merckx erroneously thought that weight played a larger role in this thing, where aerodynamics ruled the day.

Times change and technology changes. We let 15lb wonder bikes into the peloton and don't consider Coppi's time up Alpe d'Huez the eternal standard that can only be beaten by using the same Bianchi he rode. So why the hour record? Because we think Moser is a jerk and Merckx is a saint? Or that Obree or Boardman somehow cheated with tech and position and didn't do it for real? Hogwash.

[Grant McLean]

I get that you are trying to make a point, but, uh, no.

wow has this place lost a sense of humor.

[oldpotatoe]

So we have a group who wants riders to use wool jerseys, wooden rims, 1 inch pitch chains and 36 spoke wheels with a lot of guts, but not much science.
We have another group who wants to use aero bars, aero bikes, wheels and shark skin aero suits with heart rate and watt training.
Those two groups seem to be unable to reconcile their opinions. Maybe some mix of the two? I don't know. This seems to go round and round.

People are not going to ride two hour records. would you?

As for the lawn chair on wheels group. Well, there is no help for them.

Yep, the guy didn't even have a beard..wish he shaved under his arms tho...eeeeuuu...

[spacemen3]

I'm all for the superbikes. Seriously, as long as the rider has to pedal two wheels and isn't lying prone and there aren't fairings, it's a bicycle. Not having anyone contest the record because of some anachronistic ruleset is boring. Hour records are exciting: the technology is fun, the physical effort is amazing to behold, and the who is better debate is great. I'd even consider buying a Trek if they sold a Cancellara hour-record replica. :)

[Mark McM]

Which is one point the UCI has been consistent about. It has to be something in the ballpark of the design of the original "safety frame." No recumbents/fairings, etc. [/QUOTE]

The original bikes by Micheaux and Lallemont (front wheel drive) would be classed as semi-recumbent. The safety bike came later.


Not their fault that Anquetil, Coppi and Merckx erroneously thought that weight played a larger role in this thing, where aerodynamics ruled the day.

How is this not their fault, when the importance of aerodynamics over weight had already been known for 3/4 of a century? In Archibald Sharp's book "Bicycles and Tricycles, an Elementary Treatise on their Design and Construction" (https://archive.org/details/bicyclestricycl03shargoog), published in 1896, he discusses the relative importances of aerodynamics vs. weight (aero more important at higher speeds), and even discusses disc wheels, and how their reduced aero drag could be an advantage.

[nooneline]

The changes in tech are the reason that there was a split record. It makes sense. The difference in bike tech were incremental until the late 80's.

Ah, but that's a misconception. Cozy Beehive explains (http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/08/modern-bicycles-and-cycling-speeds-any.html).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_urSQl6wUA5g/TG8l_agd9sI/AAAAAAAAIWo/4p3pp6eP4rA/s1600/TdF+Speed+Increase+Justification.JPG

As for the Hour Record - I agree that it should be offered to contemporary equipment.

The UCI has bungled some of its attempts to determine what counts as a bicycle, but I do think that it's important to try to have some standards, otherwise we'll wind up with faired recumbents and the sport becomes unrecognizable. Yes, the standards are messy - Try to achieve that mandated 5cm saddle setback on any frame smaller than 53cm and still have a position worth riding in (it is literally impossible for me to achieve that with a standard saddle on the standard production track bike I am taking to the National Championships - good thing there are morphological exemptions).