Canti brakes

[Fixed]

Do they all suck in the rain ?
Cheers

[polyhistoric]

Swiss Stop Blue pads (alloy compound) and proper toe-in helps.

[AngryScientist]

once i got my Paul's set-up just right, they stop perfectly in all weather conditions. cheers.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_2C-cbGih6I/UfpnDNVBAVI/AAAAAAAABVg/Si2co1jkPog/s1600/P1110785.JPG

[donevwil]

If a given canti setup is acceptable in the dry, the performance in the rain will be a function of the pad material used. I've heard good things about Swiss Stop, I personally use Kool Stop dual compound (black/salmon) in the wet and salmon in the dry. Salmon in the wet work great, but tend to hang on to more grit than black.

I've had canti's I absolutely loved (Suntour XC-Pro) and ones I hated, ultimately found it too difficult to duplicate setup and performance when moving to a new bike and went to mini-Vs.

[rwsaunders]

They are not my preferred braking system on a long downhill in the rain, that's for sure.

[Mark McM]

Do they all suck in the rain ?
Cheers

The leverage ratio and arm stiffness of cantilever brakes vary much more widely than for caliper brakes. In particular, standard (high profile) cantilever brakes tend to have a very low leverage ratio, and require far more cable/hand force for a given braking affect - but they do give good modulation within their range of brake force. On the other side of the coin, long arm low-profile cantilevers can have very high leverage ratios and provide high braking force, but this comes at the expense of poor modulation (grabbiness) and minimal pad clearance.

Cantilever brakes generally have a wide range of adjustability, including arm angles and straddle cable heights, so can often be varied to produce a desired braking performance. but this is one of their downsides - they aren't a simple bolt-on-and-go component, but take time and effort (and experience and knowledge) to get set up properly. This was one of the main advantages of linear pull brakes (aka "V-brakes"): They are installed easily, and very little adjustment is required to give uniform performance.

[fffuhq]

depends on quality too. i had forte cantis (tektro rebrands) and switched to trp euroX and had a world of difference. im soon about to turn do disc though.:bike:

[zennmotion]

I think the broad statements whether cantis are the best thing ever invented or totally useless tend to leave out a full accounting of the following variables, and there's quite a few, what works for some situations won't necessarily work as well on another bike with a different set of variables:
Brake model/profile
pad model/material/wear
frame with respect to frame size, stud placement and distance
Fork dimensions, material, stiffness
cable hanger placement (eg fork crown, or stem stack- some forks you can, some you can't)
cable hanger width
rim width and brake surface height
setup/toe in
setup/hanger height
setup/shoe angle
setup/spring tension and tension balance
setup/cable and housing quality, wear and friction

And I'm sure I've missed a few. Bottom line IMO/FWWIW/YMMV flame on, etc,
The right brake with the right pads with the right setup on the right frame and fork- they work really well, simple and inexpensive compared with the alternatives. Finding the right combination can be a fussy process of trial and error though, and some people hate that. There is no single best brake/pad combination that will work best for all situations. I have cantis that I absolutely trust for a tandem with precious cargo in the stoker seat and loaded cargo trailer with 40-50lbs of camping gear on Appalachian gravel descents. In the rain (yes I've had heavy rain and muddy road experiences with this setup) So I guess they can work pretty well. I've also had very bad and scary setups where I couldn't stop on a flat street from 15mph in less than 100 feet or so:bike:. If you don't like to fuss, then get mini-Vs with less pad clearance and limited space for fenders, or spend the $$$ on disc brakes that give no warning before the pads are gonzo, or Vbrakes that require a Travel Agent gizmo or non-brifter levers. I'm def down with old school cantis for my tandem and several single bikes for fat tire road or cyclocross. But yeah, they're fussy and I have a box full of several models that didn't work out for some reason or another. But, trial and error and I have them dialed. Choice is a wonderful thing.

PS, I've had the best success with Tektro CR720s, wide profile so I usually start there as they have more and easier adjustment than most models at any price, and all canti's (well almost all) are pretty inexpensive anyway so I'm price agnostic- the cheap ones just happen to be the ones that work for me. They don't work for all my bikes but they're an inexpensive place to start.

[rounder]

Do they all suck in the rain ?
Cheers

I think whether they suck or not depends on the conditions.

I have campy cantis on my cross bike (that I like). The tires were Michelin Jets. They were designed for riding around relatively slow speeds on cyclocross courses.

Last March, I was on a ride up and down hills. Down hills was about 40+ with winds and wet roads. I was freaking out. Running out of road on the descents with braking, but I didn't. I had no confidence in the brakes...first time I ever felt that way.

Not the brakes fault. They were not designed for that kind of riding.

[christian]

I think Zennmotion has it right. I use cantis on my cross bike and have ridden that bike on the 55mph+ descent into Colrain without any concerns for the corner at the end. Cantis, if set up correctly, work just fine. They are sensitive to pad wear, but if you adjust the pads appropriately, it is not an issue.

[mmfs]

Zennmotion summed it up well, inclusive of the recommendation of CR 720s. By far the best canti I've used for ease of install and performance (and price).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[avalonracing]

Well they are more of a V-Brake than a canti but my TRP CX9's stop too well. Even in the rain.

[Tandem Rider]

Canti's will control a tandem, racing, in the mountains, in the rain.

Brakes consist of a wound cable pulling an aluminum lever mounted on a pivot to leverage a piece of friction material against a rotating disc.

Friction interface matters the most ie: pad and rim material, and they are secondary to how the pad hits the rim.

Leverage is next, this is the distances from the pivots of both the cable connection and the friction material. On canti's this is often adjustable. Other than pad adjustment in the slot it's not a variable on dual and single pivots, v-brakes, or center pulls, an engineer has already decided what works best for you.

Eliminate friction from the actuation system (cable) and the pivots is about all that is left.

The little pieces of aluminum matter the least, you know, the caliper arms that cost the most.

Canti's require some tinkering and understanding but they work fine.

[zap]

Canti's will control a tandem, racing, in the mountains, in the rain.



Yes, our oldest tandem has canti brakes that served us well for 15+ years. We first had XTR cantis but these were difficult to adjust properly in a short period of time.

The Avid TriAlign were/are superior canti brakes. I could make individual adjustments without messing with other settings. Avid included nice instructions regarding pros'/cons of differing geo like hanger cable length, etc.

Never had any concerns with canti braking perforce on the tandem…..other than hot rims. Sometimes we could out brake singles, locking up the rear was also possible.

The hardest descent we did on this tandem was in NC coming down the BRP at Pisgah then turning left to go down the switchbacks to the valley.

Wet braking, same precautions as you would riding a single.

[zachateseveryth]

depends on quality too. i had forte cantis (tektro rebrands) and switched to trp euroX and had a world of difference. im soon about to turn do disc though.:bike:

What levers do you run?

I have the forte/tektro 720's on my A bike and couldn't be happier with them for CX. I could see moving to discs if I was doing long descents on gravel though.

[etu]

Fixed,
I assume you're posting this topic because of our recent (thankfully) wet weather in SF Bay Area. Not really answering your question, but I was out yesterday afternoon in the wind and the rain, having an awesome time going up and down the hills Marin. In the bad weather, it was so nice to feel physically and psychologically comfortable with correct layers of clothing and a total confidence in bike, which was largely related to my brakes - TRP hyrd discs!!! I have had and continued to have a love and hate relationship with road discs, but when it's wet, they are awesome and make these wet rides really fun!