Tubular wheels

[Rover-Rich]

Yes, another wheel question! I'm wondering what tubular wheel sets forumites use for training and non-racing riding? I'm looking to make the switch back to tubulars and trying to find out how much $$$ it's going to cost. Tanks! :beer:

[LegendRider]

Mavic Reflex rims, double-butted DT spokes, brass nipples and either DA or Record/Chorus hub depending on your components. Built 3x they will be bomb-proof.

[Big Dan]

I'm using Mavic Reflex CD, 32- 14g spokes , Ultegra 6600 hubs.
Continental Sprinters.
So far , so good....... :D

:bike:

[KevinK]

Mavic GP4 rims laced to Campy Record 32-hole hubs, Conti Sprinters for my road bike, same set up except for vintage 28 hole Ofmega track hubs on my fixie.

Kevin

[Too Tall]

rover - you got good answers. Mavic rims + a good builder = happy camper. Another build I'll heartily endorse are the Velocity Escape rims. I've used these for daily commuting 160+ miles / week and no worries. Either build get the Forum thumbs up pal :)

[Rover-Rich]

Dudes, thanks for the info! Seems like the Mavic and Velocities are the way to go. Now any recommendations for a good builder? Peace

[djg]

I'm using a set of campagnolo nucleons--these were the predecessors to the neutrons (and largely indistinguishable from them). I bought mine used, on e-bay, where such things regularly appear in the neighborhood of 300 bucks.

[Serpico]

ergott

I was extremely happy with the the order process/consultation, the price, the shipping and most importantly the wheel build itself. I didn't get tubs though (not this time, at least ;) ).

I got black OP rims, black DT rev spokes and silver White Industries LTA hubs (which I was set on, and Ergott was willing to special order).

If you check out ergottwheels.com you'll see this guy is interested in some pretty unique designs imho. My wheels weren't exactly high-zoot, just something durable--but I appreciate having them built by someone who knows how to get the most out of the materials/components/parts he is working with. Whether your emphasis is on durability, weight, ride quality or some other set of criteria--he'll hit the mark.

[ergott]

Yes, another wheel question! I'm wondering what tubular wheel sets forumites use for training and non-racing riding? I'm looking to make the switch back to tubulars and trying to find out how much $$$ it's going to cost. Tanks! :beer:

I'll add Fir ST 120 to the mix. Don't forget that Velocity is once again making the Veep V in tubular!!! Finally, an aero aluminium, tubular rim. All four rims mentioned are good stuff.

[Argos]

Eric,

I did not see it on their website. Do you have more info?

Jason

[ergott]

Eric,

I did not see it on their website. Do you have more info?

Jason

It's on the price sheet. Deep V in tubular.

[Rover-Rich]

Ergott, wanna build me some wheels? Email sent!
Rover

[saab2000]

I have not raced in long time, but I train all the time on Campagnolo Nucleon tubulars. These are the same as the Neutrons, except for the spoke color. I have been extremely happy with them. They have a rock solid, stiff feel to them and are up to any task, be that climbing the Alps or winning Paris-Roubaix. They are not cheap, but they are good. I have no hesitation at all recommending these to anyone.

[SoCalSteve]

ergott

I was extremely happy with the the order process/consultation, the price, the shipping and most importantly the wheel build itself. I didn't get tubs though (not this time, at least ;) ).

I got black OP rims, black DT rev spokes and silver White Industries LTA hubs (which I was set on, and Ergott was willing to special order).

If you check out ergottwheels.com you'll see this guy is interested in some pretty unique designs imho. My wheels weren't exactly high-zoot, just something durable--but I appreciate having them built by someone who knows how to get the most out of the materials/components/parts he is working with. Whether your emphasis is on durability, weight, ride quality or some other set of criteria--he'll hit the mark.

I'll second all that and raise you! Eric did a great job on my wheelset as well...Great guy, lots of enthusiasm and very generous with his knowledge.

Steve

PS: When the wheel set came, I put them on my truing stand...they were 100% true and the tension was off less than 5%...

[Too Tall]

Ergott, what would you think about the deep Velocity rims + old school campag track hubs?

[coylifut]

Ergott, what would you think about the deep Velocity rims + old school campag track hubs?

Too check your pm

[ergott]

Ergott, what would you think about the deep Velocity rims + old school campag track hubs?

Sounds real yummie!! Just say 32 3 cross and the drool will flow!

[Fixed]

bro i've got a friend with reflex rims and c.k. hubs sweet set up if i were getting some that's what it would be gee i think i sold myself . if I had money it would be mavic carbones .cheers :beer:

[jerk]

bro i've got a friend with reflex rims and c.k. hubs sweet set up if i were getting some that's what it would be gee i think i sold myself . if I had money it would be mavic carbones .cheers :beer:


chris king hubs make for a horribly dished rear wheel with strange and awful spoke tesion, especially for 700c wheels.

imho bro,

jerk

[ergott]

chris king hubs make for a horribly dished rear wheel with strange and awful spoke tesion, especially for 700c wheels.

imho bro,

jerk

I noticed that CK does build with very low tension on the non drive, but I haven't seen or read of anybody with problems with CK builds. Have you encountered any yourself? I've built a ton of cross wheels for some customers with CK and they managed to stay true despite signitifantly lower tension.

[Fixed]

bro well my 2nd choice is good . thanks evrybody tells me how great the c.k. are . how are the white' ind.? we know the d.t.'s are good .cheers :beer:

[Catulle]

Yes, another wheel question! I'm wondering what tubular wheel sets forumites use for training and non-racing riding? I'm looking to make the switch back to tubulars and trying to find out how much $$$ it's going to cost. Tanks! :beer:

For tubies, I own a set of Campagnolo Neuron, and a set that the late Tom Bruni of Baltimore built for me with 32 spokes Escape Velocity rims and American Classics hubs (the rear hub has tall sides). I like the Bruni wheels better than the Neurons as they feel more supple and stronger than the Campys.

[Rover-Rich]

well the road to perdition has been cast, I've fallen to the "darkside" as brother Ergott will be building my my new "stealth bomber" wheels:


DT 240s hubs
Wheelsmith DB 14 spokes
brass nipples
Velocity Pro Elite rims
32 3 cross
all black (the stealth bomber)

May the Lord save my soul..... Yipee! :beer:

[Too Tall]

Ergott - I've been hunting high and low for the proper cones, lock washers etc. to convert a be-u-tee-ful set of old old campag hubs back to track. Some MAD man put hollow axels in them...OMG! Anywho, I've got the rims...almost got the hubs...hehehe.

Why don't you use the nice (newer) hard alloy nipples on them bad boys and save some grams...or is that sill considering this is not about weight?

Those are going to be fast wheels.

[pdxmech13]

do I really need 270 tpi tubis
or
can I buy the 220 corsa's.

[ergott]

Ergott - I've been hunting high and low for the proper cones, lock washers etc. to convert a be-u-tee-ful set of old old campag hubs back to track. Some MAD man put hollow axels in them...OMG! Anywho, I've got the rims...almost got the hubs...hehehe.

Why don't you use the nice (newer) hard alloy nipples on them bad boys and save some grams...or is that sill considering this is not about weight?

Those are going to be fast wheels.

Did you try Branford?

Alloys save about 35g for the wheelset. The drawback is the possibility of corrosion later. I don't mind using them if the customer doesn't.

[Rover-Rich]

Alloys save about 35g for the wheelset. The drawback is the possibility of corrosion later. I don't mind using them if the customer doesn't.

Dude, is 35 g that big of a deal? I think my sunglasses weigh more than that :)

If there is a distinct advantage over the brass nipples, aside from wt, then go for it.

Also there probably is going to be galvanic corrosion between the Al rims and brass nipples, at least in theory, however, do we hear alot about wheel failure secondary to corrosion related problems at the nipple rim interface? Just a thought......

[ergott]

Dude, is 35 g that big of a deal?

No. Alloy nipples on an alloy rim with no ferules can seaze up in years to come. This is a bigger problem than if using brass nipples.

[Rover-Rich]

Ahh me gets it now. :beer:

[amper]

Ergott - I've been hunting high and low for the proper cones, lock washers etc. to convert a be-u-tee-ful set of old old campag hubs back to track. Some MAD man put hollow axels in them...OMG! Anywho, I've got the rims...almost got the hubs...hehehe.

Try http://www.thethirdhand.com they have some solid axels and cones that might help you get those old campag hubs back to track.

[11.4]

Too Tall,

There are several ways to back-convert some old Campy track hubs. You can get a complete axle set and a set of nuts from www.businesscycles.com. There have also been some at a much lower price recently on eBay, at least for the front wheel.

Second, you can get a Bicycle Research solid axle and re-use the cones and locknuts that are already there. Odds are that the hubs used the original cones and locknuts anyway (if the axle isn't a true Campy one, it's pretty much a giveaway) so you don't really need to do much more than remove a spacer. The spacing on the front will be unchanged of course, so you don't have to worry about dimensions. On the rear, you may well be able to remove spacers and get there, or you can salvage all kinds of old Campy hub parts (check www.bicycleclassics.com, various sources on CampyRendevous, etc.). You can also use parts from Zeus, Gipiemme, and other hubs that are knockoffs off Campy (Shimano, Suntour, Suzue, and the like use a different threading on track axles, so no joy on any parts there).

It's important that your chain alignment be accurate, to within a millimeter or so. Business Cycles has a reference site that has all kinds of dimensions for chainline so you can tinker with rear spacing until it works right.

[Argos]

chris king hubs make for a horribly dished rear wheel with strange and awful spoke tesion, especially for 700c wheels.


I noticed that CK does build with very low tension on the non drive, but I haven't seen or read of anybody with problems with CK builds. Have you encountered any yourself? I've built a ton of cross wheels for some customers with CK and they managed to stay true despite signitifantly lower tension.

So are they horribly dished with strange awful spoke tension, or a comparably low tension non-drive side that's well within acceptable? Not pitting you two up against each other, but I know there are alot of King hubs built for rear road wheels, so.....

Is it odd compared to other builds, but still a great wheelset, or way, way inferior and really a bad idea?

I have two sets of these wheels, both, in the interest of full disclosure, ergott-built, and one of the sets is my Primary wheelsetwith nearly 4000 miles on them. They are still true and tensioned. What am I missing?

[11.4]

I've built 50-60 pairs of wheels on King hubs in the last couple years, and have also seen the rather low tension on the non-drive side rear. If there was ever a case for non-drive radial, this is it -- it helps stabilize the wheel and the tension isn't high enough to make radial spoking any kind of issue. Regardless of how I've laced the wheels, I haven't had any problems with durability or trueness. Given all the positive qualities of King hubs, I wouldn't consider this a material qualification on them. It's hard to find a more durable road hub that doesn't have mechanical quirks.

[Too Tall]

11.4 others thanks for the clues on parts...I'm on it :) Rover, be sure to hit the spoke nipples / rim interface with a tiny drop of oil once a yr. and you'll never see oxidation.
11.4 ehh, mmmm, I'm hedging on what you said about CK hubs. I've got a set on the racing tandem. We rode these across the USA but not without some maintenence during the event (23 days). That's my issue. The ring drive is prone to gumming up and result is skipping before engagement. True, it is very quick and easy to do a minor service with spray lube / rags / air hose and re-lube with silicone grease yer done! However, I'm more than a bit PO'd that the hub requires service so often. Compared to Hugi, which is our backup wheel, it is night and day. Hugi reminds me of Campy and Shimano, use it, forget it. But I gotta hedge a little friend ;) The bling factor is huge. they look great, sound great and are a work of precision...sweetness.

[Fixed]

bro mavic need little attention too don't you think? cheers :beer: .

[Mud]

any discussion on tubular wheels. Currently my wife has Campy Record hub Sun rim and I have AC hub Sun rim. I can't speak to durability since we do not have enough rides on them. But they ride nicely and were cheap to build since the Campy hubs came from an unused set of clinchers.

There has been discussion about the nipples. The hubs mentioned were laced to OPs with alloy nipples. Evenutally they got noisy and the yearly drop of oil became very frequent. I have our wheels built with brass now.

Aside from questions about spoke tension of which you could put my knowledge in a thimble and it would rattle, CK hubs have, to me, 2 drawbacks. The outside caps work loose and they are not Campy compatible. When I built my dream bike I considered CK hubs but went with DTs with a Dura Ace build. I had never used Shimano before and I sell bikes during the summer. As you are aware about 98% come through with Shimano parts. When the brifters etc wear out I just may go back to Campy and I wanted to be able to convert the hubs.

I have been looking at Carbon wheels and had asked for info about Nimble but got no response here. I have been in touch with them and info about their stuff is truly stealth outside of Nimble. If any of you have experience running Carbon tubies as an everyday good weather wheel, and have some recommendations, I would appreciate a PM rather than start another tubie thread that has been done just a "few" times before.

Thanx

[Rover-Rich]

There has been discussion about the nipples. The hubs mentioned were laced to OPs with alloy nipples. Evenutally they got noisy and the yearly drop of oil became very frequent. I have our wheels built with brass now.

. If any of you have experience running Carbon tubies as an everyday good weather wheel, and have some recommendations, I would appreciate a PM rather than start another tubie thread that has been done just a "few" times before.

Thanx

Tootall and Mud, tnx for the words on oiling my nipples, I have always liked that anyhow :D

Mud as far as the Carbon tubies for daily use, I'd love to keep the discussion in the open as I'm also interested in hearing what our esteemed colleagues have to say about the matter. Cheers!! :beer:

[Too Tall]

don't go there Rover...I'm spoken for :rolleyes:
Dewd! I can talk all day about Nimble wheels. What do you want to know? Super product, great people. The owner answers the phone....infact you'll have a hard time getting him off the phone.

[chrisroph]

Your carbon tubies should be a special purpose wheel. For everyday use, you don't need or want the light weight or the aero benefits. These benefits are offset by high price and compromised braking performance. I say this even though some people, including the esteemed TK, have ridden carbon tubies everyday for years. However, for my money, for everyday use, use a simple inexpensive alloy wheel.

[ergott]

Tootall and Mud, tnx for the words on oiling my nipples, I have always liked that anyhow :D

Mud as far as the Carbon tubies for daily use, I'd love to keep the discussion in the open as I'm also interested in hearing what our esteemed colleagues have to say about the matter. Cheers!! :beer:

For daily use, I recommend the Pave versions of the 303 and 404 rims. They are very strong and impact resistant.

[Mud]

concerned with how I spend my money. I am far from rich but I am not being nasty, just curious. I have made the point before but here it is again. I am 64. I never rode tubies so when I asked about them there is a whole thread why I should not ride them. I ride them, I like them and I will live with any headaches.

Nothing could be worse than the day I had a blow out in the middle of nowhere with clinchers, had a brand new pump that did not work and 4 CO2 cartridges. (also new) that were NFG and three out of the 4 spare tubes(NIB) were bad. I was on borrowed wheels and had to ride 10 miles before I found someone with a pump so I could get back.

Boonton has hills, lots of them. We are not racers but manage respectable mileage between the trainer and the road. Why not try something new?

TT, as I said I asked for info on Nimble and no one responded. They seem like nice people but Before I part with any money for anything I prefer to hear from the maker, the end user and someone who tests stuff no matter what the possible bias is. Nimble makes it tough to do that.

Bruce

[Rover-Rich]

concerned with how I spend my money. I am far from rich but I am not being nasty, just curious. Bruce

Mud, I hear you!! Enjoy the sport, spend as much money as you want! If you want to ride $140 tubies everyday, you have every right to do so and ENJOY it!

Now just remember your friends on the list who support you and your decisions when you get the urge to ride yourself of those nasty carbon rims etc, esp remeber the ones with oily nipples :D :beer:

[Argos]

Mud,

I hear you. Ride what you want. I agree with ergott's pick. 303 or 404 Pave's built to the hub of your choice (or stock.... sorry ergott) are great wheels.

He and I have some freinds that ride nothing BUT carbon Tubular. One friend spends most of his time on a 303 variant and another spends most of his time on Hyperons. G-d bless them.

And you too! Have fun Mud!

[ergott]

Mud,

I hear you. Ride what you want. I agree with ergott's pick. 303 or 404 Pave's built to the hub of your choice (or stock.... sorry ergott) are great wheels.

He and I have some freinds that ride nothing BUT carbon Tubular. One friend spends most of his time on a 303 variant and another spends most of his time on Hyperons. G-d bless them.

And you too! Have fun Mud!

Those 303s he has are not even Pave. :cool:

[Argos]

eric,

Prepare your self for some 24f28r pave action order in campy in the next few weeks. Think about Hubs.

Just a heads up.

Jason

[theprep]

Those 303s he has are not even Pave. :cool:

Are you guys talking about Mr. Buday (sp?). He taught me the proper way to fold a tubular tire a couple years ago, nice and small fit under the saddle. Super nice guy with some real nice bikes and equipment.

PS - does he ever sell off stuff? We are about the same size and his hand me downs would be pretty darn nice.

[Argos]

Are you guys talking about Mr. Buday (sp?). He taught me the proper way to fold a tubular tire a couple years ago, nice and small fit under the saddle. Super nice guy with some real nice bikes and equipment.

PS - does he ever sell off stuff? We are about the same size and his hand me downs would be pretty darn nice.

Him, his pal MC and as far as selling, not too often, that's for sure.

[Too Tall]

Bruce Dewd! PM me I'll give you a phone # to contact me. I'll tell you all about Nimbles.
Ergott - yep, I run the 404 Pave's year round. Very sweet. I save the Nimbles for race only.