Bought a frame with undisclosed damage - Paypal claims process?

[kramnnim]

Has anyone gone through this? I bought a frame from another forum...it arrive with a crack, seller says he never noticed it, and seems to be taking appropriate responsibility...IE, I'll send the frame back for a refund.

I'm confused about the "proper" way to go about this. I called Paypal, and...well, I had a hard time understand her accent (she was very nice and hellpful, of course) She said I need to file a claim with Paypal so I remain protected... Originally I had been planning to just mail the frame back, and hope the seller refunded the money promptly once it arrived.

So...yeah, has anyone gone through this process with Paypal? I have no reason to think that the seller did anything wrong, other than not looking very closely at the frame before packing it...and I don't think he would cheat me out of the refund. But it only makes sense to do things the way Paypal wants me to, in case something goes wrong. Just kind of confused about what exactly I will need to do.

[e-RICHIE]

Can't the guy just send you a Paypal for the amount at issue?
How complicated does it have to be atmo?

PS

arrange disorder

;););)
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
:cool::cool::)

[joosttx]

I once goofed up and sold a guy a stem that was 120mm and not 100mm as advertised on eBay. I told him to keep the stem (it ain't a frame) and I refunded the money via paypal. It took me about 5 minutes searching around the paypal site to figure out how to do.

I think you can trust this seller because if he was ripping you off he would not of returned your emails about the defect.

[phcollard]

Ask the seller to refund you before you ship the frame back to him. No?

I mean when you bought it you had to pay upfront before he shipped. Why can't it be the same the other way around.

[R3awak3n]

have him refund you the money, send the frame back. done.

[kramnnim]

Hmm, I guess y'all have a point. But I don't really expect the seller to send back $1500+ and have no way to get it back if I, the buyer, decide to do something sneaky and not send the bike back, etc.

But yeah, I did send him $1500+ and expected to get an uncracked bike...

[e-RICHIE]

Hmm, I guess y'all have a point. But I don't really expect the seller to send back $1500+ and have no way to get it back if I, the buyer, decide to do something sneaky and not send the bike back, etc.


But you wouldn't do that, so don't even invest in that energy atmo.

PS

arrange disorder

:cool::cool::cool:
;););)
:):):rolleyes:

[Don49]

Open a claim with PayPal describing what the problem is (frame arrived cracked). Then return the frame to the seller, properly packed, insured, and with tracking. Hopefully the seller then refunds you when he receives the frame, and you close the case with PayPal. But if not, you have a claim open with PayPal.

[pbarry]

Yeah, what Don said. But, definitely advise the seller that's what you are considering before proceeding. A phone call is best in this kind of situation. Clear the air, get on the same page. A balk at the suggestion = you need to go that way.

[ultraman6970]

I would try to fix this in a friendly manner 1st, if that doesn't work just file the complain.

Probably he for real did not notice, he might even send you some money back so you get the thing fixed, many sellers do that because deal with the shipping, time and get stuck with something that needs to be fixed is just a total waste of energy.

If the frame is made of carbon, are you sure is not a crack in the paint???

[kramnnim]

It's clearly a crack, half the circumference of the chainstay. On the inside, so less visible.

I've been on the phone with the seller already, and sent emails, etc. He offered to pay for repairs, etc, or a full refund.

Paypal told me not to mail it back before filing a claim. So I filed the claim.

I don't think it is reasonable for me to expect the seller to refund the money before I send the frame. Sure, he should probably do it, but I want Paypal's protection, and feel he deserves the same if he wants it.

Anyway, the main question was if anyone was familiar with the "official" process that Paypal wants you to do.

[AngryScientist]

in this case, i'm totally with e-richie on this one. why does this need to be so complicated. work it out with the seller - he sends you your investment back, you send him the frame. like it never happened...

[firerescuefin]

in this case, i'm totally with e-richie on this one. why does this need to be so complicated. work it out with the seller - he sends you your investment back, you send him the frame. like it never happened...

It's all fun and games...until it isn't. This is why you use paypal to purchase items. It provides you protection in case things go south. The OP has no relationship with the seller and doesn't know that the guy wasn't trying to pull a fast one on him. File a case, communicate nicely and professionally with the seller. Get your money back. Move down the road. You can file a case and not be an A-hole. Too much money at stake to not dot the I's cross the T's IMO.

[AngryScientist]

It's all fun and games...until it isn't. This is why you use paypal to purchase items. It provides you protection in case things go south. The OP has no relationship with the seller and doesn't know that the guy wasn't trying to pull a fast one on him. File a case, communicate nicely and professionally with the seller. Get your money back. Move down the road. You can file a case and not be an A-hole. Too much money at stake to not dot the I's cross the T's IMO.

yes, i do agree with this.

but, without more to the story, if it were me in the OP's shoes, as soon as i saw the frame, i would ask the seller for a refund. if he refunds to paypal promptly, then there is really no need to file a claim right, the OP gets the money back.

i totally concur, if that chain of events doesnt happen very quickly, a claim should be filed.

[e-RICHIE]

seller says he never noticed it, and seems to be taking appropriate responsibility

Says it all. If someone gets something from my site's page and there's a discrepancy,
he emails me. I send him a Paypal to make him whole, and he send back the item. It's
all quite simple atmo.

PS

arrange disorder

:):):)
:):):)
:):):cool:

[kramnnim]

It seems like I am finding new ways to type the same thing...lol.

Yes, seller could send a refund before I send the frame back. And maybe he should. But he isn't required to, and for all I know he might be suspicious of me...

Paypal says I have to file a claim to get the protection. I told the seller than I was going to, and why, etc.

Again, really just looking for someone who has gone through the "correct" procedure. From random posts on other forums, it looks like they put a hold on the funds, and the buyer enters a tracking number...and once it is delivered, they release the funds. Which doesn't seem like a great system since anything could be in the returned package...

[firerescuefin]

Yes, I've done it, and it's pretty much as you have noted. You'll be fine.

It seems like I am finding new ways to type the same thing...lol.

Yes, seller could send a refund before I send the frame back. And maybe he should. But he isn't required to, and for all I know he might be suspicious of me...

Paypal says I have to file a claim to get the protection. I told the seller than I was going to, and why, etc.

Again, really just looking for someone who has gone through the "correct" procedure. From random posts on other forums, it looks like they put a hold on the funds, and the buyer enters a tracking number...and once it is delivered, they release the funds. Which doesn't seem like a great system since anything could be in the returned package...

[e-RICHIE]

It seems like I am finding new ways to type the same thing...lol.

Yes, seller could send a refund before I send the frame back. And maybe he should. But he isn't required to, and for all I know he might be suspicious of me...

Paypal says I have to file a claim to get the protection. I told the seller than I was going to, and why, etc.

Again, really just looking for someone who has gone through the "correct" procedure. From random posts on other forums, it looks like they put a hold on the funds, and the buyer enters a tracking number...and once it is delivered, they release the funds. Which doesn't seem like a great system since anything could be in the returned package...I have refunded money, so the experience is not a foreign language to me. And, how can you now write he might be suspicious of you when, earlier, you wrote -
and seems to be taking appropriate responsibility
If he's doing that, then let him wake up when the week begins on Monday, send you a Paypal, and then you arrange a return? Again, it seems like a lot of energy for something you said before was already acknowledged by the seller. PS If he goes radio silent after a work week, then file a claim. You've already spoken with Paypal, so there's a record.

[eddief]

of $1500 and a crap/cracked frame. oops I didn't see it ain't good enough. you can listen to the groovy folks here and go with the flow or cover your butt this second time around. i highly recommned the latter over the former.

[kramnnim]

I've already filed the claim, as said before.

And yes, he seems to be taking responsibility, but I have no way of knowing what he is planning or thinking.

And I think I've spent more energy in this thread than I did with Paypal. lol.

[kramnnim]

Yes, I've done it, and it's pretty much as you have noted. You'll be fine.

Thanks! :)

[ultraman6970]

Send the frame back now, pack it really well or better than the guy did, get insurance and a super nice tracking number to be sure the guy got the frame, after that sure he will issue a refund, if not, paypal will do it for him.

[jtakeda]

Ask the seller to refund you before you ship the frame back to him. No?

I mean when you bought it you had to pay upfront before he shipped. Why can't it be the same the other way around.

The easiest solution. If he doesn't understand this logic hes a bad seller.

[djg21]

Can't the guy just send you a Paypal for the amount at issue?
How complicated does it have to be atmo?

PS

arrange disorder

;););)
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
:cool::cool::)

He can issue a refund so no one incurs fees.

[e-RICHIE]

He can issue a refund so no one incurs fees.

Exactly atmo.
It's beyond simple to do.

PS

arrange disorder

:p:p:p
;);):cool:
:cool::cool::)

[cash05458]

odd sorta stuf here...why are folks so concerned how this guy gets his money back? Maybe I am misreading but the fact is it does not seem "beyond simple"...

[slidey]

OP: You're already doing the correct thing by opening the case with Paypal.

If you're worried about not sending the wrong vibes to the seller, then you can always reason that you are doing it to insure both you and them from any further incidents enroute. I'd also suggest taking a couple of pics of the packed bike in the box just so you have some evidence in case things get tampered with by the postal service, and the case is turned on its head.

In the end, all procedure/protocol/protection is for that 1% of the time when things go haywire.

[pdmtong]

It's all fun and games...until it isn't. This is why you use paypal to purchase items. It provides you protection in case things go south. The OP has no relationship with the seller and doesn't know that the guy wasn't trying to pull a fast one on him. File a case, communicate nicely and professionally with the seller. Get your money back. Move down the road. You can file a case and not be an A-hole. Too much money at stake to not dot the I's cross the T's IMO.

odd sorta stuf here...why are folks so concerned how this guy gets his money back? Maybe I am misreading but the fact is it does not seem "beyond simple"...

I'm with Geoff and Cash...

Can I assume this is a ebay deal not a forum deal?

Filing a claim doesn't make you a jerk; in fact, it shows you are smart. And acting in the best interest of both parties. It's just a process after all.

Sure, keep it simple if I know you and you know me. But, WE DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER

I'm all for giving a stranger the benefit of the doubt when large sums are involved.
I'll do so once I can treat a grand like I now treat a dime.

[JeffS]

Ebay always sides with the buyer - seemingly waiting for a chance to screw over a seller at every opportunity.

Paypal can go either way, but they offer very little in the way of buyer protection. If you are genuinely concerned, you should dispute the transaction with your credit card company. If you didn't use a credit card through paypal... well, you didn't care about protecting yourself, or didn't know any better. Now you do. Paypal offers nothing in the way of meaningful protection for buyers or sellers.

[pdmtong]

So Paypal takes funds first from an existing account balance then from a linked bank account then from a credit card.

So how do you guys use Paypal and pay with a credit card? Zero balance and no linked bank account?

[kramnnim]

Finally got my refund- called Paypal as soon as the USPS tracking showed that the frame was signed for/delivered. The seller was nice and paid for the return postage, which he was not required to do. (well, morally he may have been...)


So Paypal takes funds first from an existing account balance then from a linked bank account then from a credit card.

So how do you guys use Paypal and pay with a credit card? Zero balance and no linked bank account?

Not sure if there is a way to not pay with CC without using the balance first, but you can choose to fund from CC rather than the bank account. They put some message that is supposed to discourage this, since they keep more of the fees that way...

[e-RICHIE]

Finally got my refund- called Paypal as soon as the USPS tracking showed that the frame was signed for/delivered. The seller was nice and paid for the return postage, which he was not required to do. (well, morally he may have been...)

That's great news atmo.

PS

arrange disorder

;);):p
:p;):rolleyes:
:cool::cool::cool:

[tuscanyswe]

Basicly i think paypal does whatever it can to not use the cc. i guess because they would then have less control of the potential refund and dispute situations like this one.

I sometimes have usd, sek and gbp in my pp account. For some reason it takes just 1 currency and then charge rest to cc (which kind of contradict above :) ). I had to change my currencies to 1 before it could use the entire amount. There was an option to exchange a currency to another for that somewhere in the menus.

[George Ab]

Glad things worked out.