Project Tessa bike from 2007 NAHBS - help on value

[veloduffer]

I need some help valuing a special, one of a kind bike. This bike was built to raise funds for Don Walker's daughter for the 2007 NAHBS. The raffle winner got a custom bike built and painted by the who's who of custom bikes-- Sachs, Weigle, Della Santa, Fattic, Baylis, Nobilette, Tom Kellogg, etc.

It seems that the owner has passed and the executor of the estate is trying to to appraise and sell it. So he brought it to my LBS, who in turn called me as I have more knowledge about custom than they do.

This bike has never been ridden and has a new Dura Ace 10 spd on it. It's a big bike, as the owner, Bill White, was 6'3" or so: seat is 58 c-c and 62 c-t with a 57.5 top tube (no slop e on this baby). I have not seen it myself yet but will this weekend.

I appreciate your help with this and if any of you are interested, let me know! Too big for me, unfortunately.

[veloduffer]

Here are some pics

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/22/dy9a5uqe.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/22/ubyjeruh.jpg

[christian]

Pretty one of a kind, that!

[vav]

I'd try to sell F/F/HS. Sell wheelset, DA group, cockpit, etc separately if possible.

For the F/F/HS (really wild guess here) I'd say 7-10 K? Dunno, when you look at all those names on the ST collectors just may go crazy and pay 15-20k

...and 57.5 tt is my sweet spot :banana:

[avalonracing]

I would say let the market set the value... Yup, eBay. Put a fairly high starting price on it, say $5000, describe it and photograph it well and see what the market says.

[flyhippy]

I'd put it on ebay as buy it now or best offer and start it at like 25 grand. See what comes in. Like others have said - with all those names on the seat tube, this would make a great addition to someone's collection. Worst case scenario, you drop the price to 15k. But I don't think anyone who is truly interested in this bike will be scared off by the 25k asking price. They are at least going to inquire further about it, send a lower offer, etc.

[zetroc]

Wow! That's a gorgeous, and definitely collectible bike.

[scooter]

If there's nothing special about the componentry, I'd part it out, as the value rests in the frame. Check the sold listings on e-bay and you'll see that recent whole bicycles rarely sell for more than USD $10,000. On the other hand, there's a Colnago NOS Regal Arabesque frame that recently sold on e-bay for USD $13,492.00.

[Doug Fattic]

I think there are really special features on this frame that the 2 photographs don’t show that greatly enhance its visual appeal. It is more than just a beautiful paint job :). Each lug, the bb and the fork crown was specially modified by each veteran builder. In addition they all had some kind of cut-out. I painted a candy red color inside each one. There needs to be close up photographs of each detail on each joint. That will greatly enhance the impression this frames makes on the viewer.

I would be shocked if there could be this kind of collaboration ever again between this group of 10 founders of modern American framebuilding. I can’t imagine who could bring us all together again (certainly not Don) to all work on one frame. That makes this frame a one time only opportunity. We all had at least 30 years of framebuilding experience when we collectively made it back in 2007 and 2008. Do the math. Statistically one of us isn’t going to be around (or at least be able to do this kind of work) in 5 years or less. I’m in fine shape (I like to bicycle) and work as hard as ever teaching framebuilding classes but we're all on the wrong side of the age curve.

I’m sad to hear Bill White died. He was a worthy winner because as I understand it, the money went to a charity child diabetes fund. Bill had contributed to this fund before he ever heard of the raffle so nobody was more deserving to get it then him because it was a cause he really believed in. When I called him to say I was going to paint it, I talked to him about what a rare frame this was and how in my opinion it would never be replicated again. I mentioned that I thought it was going to be really valuable someday and asked him if he was going to take advantage of its value and sell it. He said no he wanted to keep it because it was such a historical frame. I enjoyed the conversation. He felt like he was just the caretaker in a succession of future caretakers. If Bill’s estate doesn’t sell it for a high price, it will eventually sell high. Impatience and lack of information would be the reasons it wouldn’t go for a great deal of money.

[KonaSS]

I agree, let the market decide, but I am guessing the market is going to decide it is much less than the numbers thrown out here. If you can find an interested collector, that would be your best bet.

Otherwise, you market is tall guys interested in custom frames. Either way, these are small niche markets, and not the place that commands top dollar.

[weisan]

Wow!!!

I mean,WOW!!!

What a collaboration of work.

Listen carefully to every word that Doug says.

Patience.

Get a top-notch photographer who has done great work on bikes.

Respect the Collective.

[RedRider]

There's a lot of awesome about this bike including the original charity purpose. It's unique and a one-of-a-kind but the downside is that no collector is "needing" it. Putting a value on it is difficult and Ebay, unfortunately, would let the market decide. Reaching out to the builders that contributed might give some leads to buyers of their work.
Good luck and keep us updated.

[Doug Fattic]

I took these pictures quickly just to document each builder's work. The bottom bracket shell was cut out by Peter Weigle, the down tube lug by Brian Baylis, the head tube lug by Mark Nobilette, the seat lug by Richard Sachs, the fork crown by Tom Kellogg, the dropout treatment by Bruce Gordon:

[weisan]

SUPERWOW Pictures!!! Thanks Doug-pal.

I will bet this won't get even close to the 'bay before it gets snatched up by some pal here on this forum. :banana:

[AngryScientist]

i wonder if the executive of the estate really needs (or wants) the money. it would really be something special to see this bike to go a charity auction setting where it could bring in even more money for some cause that it's first owner obviously cared so much about.

what a cool bike. i'm pretty sure i know what shop it's at, i would love to drop in just to take a look. let us know what becomes of it, if you can!

[Wilkinson4]

I remember that contest but never knew what happened to the bike. Wow, that is special.

mIKE

[bobswire]

Should be put into some Museum, representative of modern American frame building, A true work of art. Here's a listing of some of the top prices paid for cycling goods sold on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/csc/Cycling-/7294/i.html?_mspp=&_mdo=Sporting-Goods&_fln=1&_catref=1&_pcats=382&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_sop=16

[Fixed]

I think there are really special features on this frame that the 2 photographs don’t show that greatly enhance its visual appeal. It is more than just a beautiful paint job :). Each lug, the bb and the fork crown was specially modified by each veteran builder. In addition they all had some kind of cut-out. I painted a candy red color inside each one. There needs to be close up photographs of each detail on each joint. That will greatly enhance the impression this frames makes on the viewer.

I would be shocked if there could be this kind of collaboration ever again between this group of 10 founders of modern American framebuilding. I can’t imagine who could bring us all together again (certainly not Don) to all work on one frame. That makes this frame a one time only opportunity. We all had at least 30 years of framebuilding experience when we collectively made it back in 2007 and 2008. Do the math. Statistically one of us isn’t going to be around (or at least be able to do this kind of work) in 5 years or less. I’m in fine shape (I like to bicycle) and work as hard as ever teaching framebuilding classes but we're all on the wrong side of the age curve.

I’m sad to hear Bill White died. He was a worthy winner because as I understand it, the money went to a charity child diabetes fund. Bill had contributed to this fund before he ever heard of the raffle so nobody was more deserving to get it then him because it was a cause he really believed in. When I called him to say I was going to paint it, I talked to him about what a rare frame this was and how in my opinion it would never be replicated again. I mentioned that I thought it was going to be really valuable someday and asked him if he was going to take advantage of its value and sell it. He said no he wanted to keep it because it was such a historical frame. I enjoyed the conversation. He felt like he was just the caretaker in a succession of future caretakers. If Bill’s estate doesn’t sell it for a high price, it will eventually sell high. Impatience and lack of information would be the reasons it wouldn’t go for a great deal of money.
This
Cheers

[RedRider]

There's a great story that goes with this bike and it should be told. I didn't know Bill but if the estate doesn't "need" the money they could donate it to a bicycle museum and get a tax deduction for an appraised value.

[krhea]

I would contact Brett Horton of the "Horton Collection".

[buddybikes]

This machine deserves to be sent here for "eternity" http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_866.html

I would seriously talk with the executor of doing such a special act rather than some rich person's collection.

[Marburg]

If the bike has the original (delivery) build on it, I would actually vote to sell it "complete" -- as in "matching numbers" ala collectable cars. I know the groupset and wheels aren't exactly huge collectors items, but they are part of the story (again, assuming its the delivery build).

If the F/F hung on the wall for a while, and was eventually built up, then I'd say parting out is appropriate.

As others have said, perhaps the frame can "keep on giving" through another charity auction. Don't know what people would pay for that sort of history if the money is going to a good place.

[firerescuefin]

i wonder if the executive of the estate really needs (or wants) the money. it would really be something special to see this bike to go a charity auction setting where it could bring in even more money for some cause that it's first owner obviously cared so much about.

what a cool bike. i'm pretty sure i know what shop it's at, i would love to drop in just to take a look. let us know what becomes of it, if you can!

This^

[veloduffer]

I'll talk to the executor this weekend. Some really good ideas about donating the frame.

[Mikej]

Cool bike and all, but at the end of the day it's a 4500 dollar bike. Just sell it to a guy who wants to ride it not stick it in a basement.

[professerr]

There was chatter my Sunday ride about this frame by a couple of the guys into customs, but one interested (and tall) gentleman said he’d heard from someone (who’d read it on some web forum, of course...) that at least one of the builders had less than positive words about this project. I think I found the source of that in post on across the hall (not a big surprise who, but I don’t want to link lest I create more bad web juju) but it seemed more a whinge about the process than the frame itself.

I pointed the gentleman here in hopes others familiar with this project might have some perspective to add, so if so, please do.

[Doug Fattic]

Let me explain why I think this is an exceptional frame. 10 master builders (all founders of modern American framebuilding) did special work in every area of their responsibility. More specifically each person carved a unique shape out of their lug, bottom bracket shell or fork crown. Not only that but all the lugs were filled in with brass in some areas (before the lug was brazed into the frame) to smooth shape transitions. This is a very far cry from taking a standard set of lugs, crisping the edges and maybe thinning them afterwards like most refining treatment on a standard custom frame. Everyone did an outstanding job. Getting independent minded people with their own schedules to collaborate on one project for free wasn’t likely to happen without tension. The result turned out fine whether we held hands and sang Kunbaya together when it was finished or not (we didn’t). This won't be done by this group again. Good close up pictures can make the best case for the value of this frame so anyone could decide for themselves. Here is another one I took just for documentation.

[d_douglas]

Wow, interesting story and gorgeous bike. Good luck with teh sale, and I hope it nets big $$ as it is truly one of a kind.

It would fit me perfectly, but I am about $15k short on resources ;)

[pdmtong]

From a collectable standpoint, the price is inelastic to the person who would be interested in this frame...$5k, 10k, 15k it doesn't matter. They want the bike, they have the cash. All you need to do is find the venue to find that person.

OTOH..if you just want it gone, price it at $3500 complete and off it goes to someone who would ride it.

Me, I think it's cool. I remember the raffle when I was at the show. But I personally would not pay a premium or the collectable aspect if it fit me. Rather just have a handmade frame for me from made solely by just one of those builders.

[Charles M]

I think this thing should go back to NAHBS to be auctioned again...

Part of me thinks it's worth quite a bit and part of me thinks that it wouldn't fetch a big number.

At days end, some sort of collector will be the guy that brings the coin, but it's an absolute crapshoot to what that figure should be...