View Full Version : Fenders and racks
Netdewt
02-21-2014, 11:16 AM
I am looking into tweaking my "touring" road bike (1982 Motobecane Jubile Sport) as a commuter/rando/gravel grinder (rando bars, bag, 28x700c panaracer tires, fenders, trying out singlespeed). It would not be an expensive build, but I'd like to keep it and have it be useful (I am building a newer, lighter bike this winter).
Anyways, I am posting because I know nothing about mounting fenders and racks. I'd probably do Velo Orange stuff because it looks well made and is well priced? The bike has eyelets near the dropouts and caliper brakes. Will I be able to mount fenders and racks to this frame easily? It looks like most of this stuff is made for cantilever brake bikes and bikes with additional eyelets.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20886311/ideas/moto_ideas2.jpg
Fenders:
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/fenders/vo-37mm-aluminum-polished-smooth-fenders.html
http://store.velo-orange.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/530x530/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/e/fe-0034_1_1.jpg
Front rack (could go with a mini rack and clamps, but the bike has eyelets at the dropouts):
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/racks-decaleurs/vo-constructeur-front-rack.html
http://store.velo-orange.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/530x530/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/o/constructeur_front_rack_1.jpg
Bag:
http://builtbyswift.com/products/5
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5155/7168043094_35d3f0b087_b.jpg
That's a really nice Moto... You should be able to mount the fenders with little trouble. Personally I'd do a mini rack with clamps, unless you are going to carry really heavy stuff. My Merckx with VO fenders and mini rack.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8019/7640702740_bbe68082e5_b.jpg
Cat3roadracer
02-21-2014, 11:27 AM
Check out Nitto racks, very well made.
oddsaabs
02-21-2014, 11:32 AM
Just like VAV said, fenders should go on there like a champ. My favorites are SKS Longboards because of the coverage and the breakaway front stays. I've used 3 pairs over the years w/o and complaints. Very good install video here: http://youtu.be/lG_WZVS9SUY
I also agree to try a smaller front rack like the VO. They are easily adaptable to almost any fork.
Netdewt
02-21-2014, 11:41 AM
My Merckx with VO fenders and mini rack.
Love that!
Actually looking at yours, maybe the eyelets are for fenders, not racks. I like the little rack better!
For fenders, I have considered powdercoating this frame (and trying to restore decals somewhat). It has a bad repaint up close. So, the color of the fenders isn't crucial, as I would think about powdercoating the fenders and rack as well. Vanilla style:
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q364/Netdewt/bikes/1.jpg
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q364/Netdewt/bikes/8.jpg
Although, I do like the look of front panniers. I'm not conviced of how stable this bike would be:
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q364/Netdewt/bikes/mitch-pryor-randonneur-1_zpsdf14e28a.jpg
donevwil
02-21-2014, 11:43 AM
Racks and fenders should mount relatively easily. I have the same situation with my Mondia commuter, using a rear rack mounted with the fenders (sandwiched struts) to the dropout eyelets with P-clamps up top. Sandwiching struts in a single eyelet works fine, but you may need to play with the orientation and/or add a washer here and there to avoid interference. For a front rack (I've got the V-O I never used if interested) you'd need P-clamps and the center strut to the brake hole. V-O fenders are quite nice. Maybe not up to Honjos or Berthouds, but perfect for a cost effective commuter. I am using a set of 35mm aluminum on one bike, 45mm aluminum on another and a set of stainless ones on my wife's commuter. The 35mm have only one center stay support while all larger ones have two. Two is much more stable. Stainless are very solid if not a bit heavy.
I have the front rack you linked, mounted on my rivendell with sidepulls.
The tang was made of a fairly thick steel stock, not the easiest thing in the world to bend around the brakes and headset while thinking about tire/fender clearance.
When I first had it, I bent it under the front centerpull brakes. Later when I change the centerpull to a sidepull, the new brakes interfere with the rack. The alternative was to bend the tang above the front brake, but that won't be easy either because that is limited by the shape of your brakes and headset.
I ended up cutting the whole tang off and made my own using a thinner piece of stainless steel, it is still plenty solid. I don't see much problem with the original tang for a bike with cantilievers when a simple bend would suffice, but for sidepulls, it certainly isn't the best option.
Coluber42
02-21-2014, 12:30 PM
Before you get too involved in oogling racks ;), what are you planning to carry on a rack, and under what circumstances? Is it your work stuff, for when you're commuting? Loaded touring? Brevet-sized loads?
Those little rando-style racks are cute, but they aren't made for carrying heavy panniers. The front ones are basically good for a boxy front bag, like the Swift Industries one you mentioned; the little cute rear ones are good for supporting a saddlebag, or maybe a fairly small trunk bag, but again, not for full panniers.
If you're thinking of carrying just what you need for a day ride or a brevet, you probably don't need both front and rear racks. If you go the boxy bag route, you need a little rack for that, and you might not need more. If you just supplement it with a saddlebag, you don't need a rear rack and even if you use a relatively large saddlebag, the fender will probably be enough to keep it off your wheel on a bike that size.
If you are going to commute with a full load, go grocery shopping, or go loaded touring, you really should get a larger, sturdier rear rack that is meant for large panniers. In particular, look for one that lets you mount the panniers farther back, because your chainstays aren't that long and your heels will hit big panniers unless you can move them back far enough.
If you're talking about pannier-sized loads, you'll probably have better luck with most of the weight in the back than with just front panniers. Anyway, it gets more complicated to mount front racks that can support heavy panniers if your fork doesn't have eyelets for them.
Ken Robb
02-21-2014, 12:38 PM
Rivendell can probably advise you on this topic. It looks like you have short reach brakes. While they clear 700x28 tires with fenders for off-road use you may find that you want fatter tires. This might be a good bike for a 650B conversion. :)
I question the wisdom of "trying single speed" on a bike you want to use as a randoneur and/or a gravel grinder. While you may not have any hills that worry you on rides your local area lack of gears might be very limiting as to which long rides you can do. Then I must say that gravel provides enough extra resistance to forward motion that I shift down several cogs when the pavement ends on my Allrounder.
Netdewt
02-21-2014, 01:49 PM
Before you get too involved in oogling racks ;), what are you planning to carry on a rack, and under what circumstances? Is it your work stuff, for when you're commuting? Loaded touring? Brevet-sized loads?
Really just commuting or longer distance rides. I think the small rack would be great. You're right I wasn't thinking too specifically about this.
Rivendell can probably advise you on this topic. It looks like you have short reach brakes. While they clear 700x28 tires with fenders for off-road use you may find that you want fatter tires. This might be a good bike for a 650B conversion. :)
I question the wisdom of "trying single speed" on a bike you want to use as a randoneur and/or a gravel grinder. While you may not have any hills that worry you on rides your local area lack of gears might be very limiting as to which long rides you can do. Then I must say that gravel provides enough extra resistance to forward motion that I shift down several cogs when the pavement ends on my Allrounder.
Yes, they are short reach. I measured the chain stays at the tire, and I only have 32mm. It's not really meant for fat tires. I'd love a 650B bike, but personally I think that would be too far for this one, even if they did fit.
I know. It's unwise. I am keeping all of the Shimano 600 stuff close by so I can put it back on when I get the SS out of my system. I have been thinking about it for years and just want to try. This is an easy time to mess with it. I actually already have a freewheel on the rear hub and removed the derailleurs and shifters.
JAGI410
02-21-2014, 02:47 PM
My bike only fit 28s and fenders before I went 650B. You can determine if your bike is a good conversion candidate by reading this: http://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blogs/650blog/1771-650b-conversion-guidlines
700c: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a434/JAGI410/95870449-F506-4BEF-B233-BD90B8B888C4-5717-000006AA0DB93169.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/JAGI410/media/95870449-F506-4BEF-B233-BD90B8B888C4-5717-000006AA0DB93169.jpg.html)
650B: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a434/JAGI410/A81D5524-7FD2-4218-A04F-8C6B40DC1C5E_zpsttko1nh4.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/JAGI410/media/A81D5524-7FD2-4218-A04F-8C6B40DC1C5E_zpsttko1nh4.jpg.html)
Same fenders were used, just "massaged" a little. You can see there's a lot more tire to fender clearance after conversion.
Really just commuting or longer distance rides. I think the small rack would be great. You're right I wasn't thinking too specifically about this.
Yes, they are short reach. I measured the chain stays at the tire, and I only have 32mm. It's not really meant for fat tires. I'd love a 650B bike, but personally I think that would be too far for this one, even if they did fit.
I know. It's unwise. I am keeping all of the Shimano 600 stuff close by so I can put it back on when I get the SS out of my system. I have been thinking about it for years and just want to try. This is an easy time to mess with it. I actually already have a freewheel on the rear hub and removed the derailleurs and shifters.
Single speed on the road can be great fun, and works well for commuting. I've done some long rides on my road single speed bike. Just take it slow, and build up to longer rides. Try it, and ride it for a while, you may be surprised how long of a ride you can do.
Have fun with it!
Chris
imo this bike is a poor candidate for racks, you''re going to pclamp the whole thing up (unless there are eylets i can't see in the pic). i'd use the front eylets on the fork ends and handlebar for a wald rack/basket on the front and that's it for racks. as for fenders, hard to see the available clearance but my experience with similar bikes is 28's w/fenders is the max tire size due to the caliper brake clearance.
http://www.waldsports.com/index.cfm/store/front-baskets/1392-front-basket/
Netdewt
02-21-2014, 04:17 PM
My bike only fit 28s and fenders before I went 650B. You can determine if your bike is a good conversion candidate by reading this: http://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blogs/650blog/1771-650b-conversion-guidlines
Very nice. I'll read up on that. You're just making me want to spend even more money! :rolleyes:
palincss
02-21-2014, 04:35 PM
Although, I do like the look of front panniers. I'm not conviced of how stable this bike would be:
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q364/Netdewt/bikes/mitch-pryor-randonneur-1_zpsdf14e28a.jpg
The geometry of that bike is designed for front loads.
palincss
02-21-2014, 04:38 PM
I am looking into tweaking my "touring" road bike (1982 Motobecane Jubile Sport) as a commuter/rando/gravel grinder (rando bars, bag, 28x700c panaracer tires, fenders, trying out singlespeed). It would not be an expensive build, but I'd like to keep it and have it be useful (I am building a newer, lighter bike this winter).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20886311/ideas/moto_ideas2.jpg
It doesn't look as though you have room for a fender with 28mm tires on that bike. You'd probably have to go to a 23 to allow sufficient room, and that would really change the character of the bike, very much for the worse in my opinion. On the other hand, it may be a good candidate for a 650B conversion, which also would help on gravel.
Netdewt
02-21-2014, 09:17 PM
It doesn't look as though you have room for a fender with 28mm tires on that bike. You'd probably have to go to a 23 to allow sufficient room, and that would really change the character of the bike, very much for the worse in my opinion. On the other hand, it may be a good candidate for a 650B conversion, which also would help on gravel.
This picture is a slight photoshop. The actual tires are Hutchinsons 23c, but I only changed the color, not the size.
That's an issue... I really want more tire and fenders on this bike.
Saguaro
02-22-2014, 12:04 AM
Your bike is a great candidate for fenders and racks. I also have a 1982 bike that I did a similar modification to: a 1982 Nishiki Cresta:
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8132/8697670622_4eb6ee868e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/76883232@N02/8697670622/)
The front rack is a Nitto Mark's Rack from Rivendell with extra long stays that extend to the lower eyelet's on the fork. The fenders are Honjo LePaon (Zeppelin) fluted aluminum.
Here is the bike in touring form:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5483/9487214435_460f57cd83_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/76883232@N02/9487214435/)
Coluber42
02-22-2014, 12:34 PM
It's possible to get fenders around tight clearance if you don't mind doing a little hackery. One way to do it is to cut the fender into two pieces and attach them in front of the brake and behind. You'll need to fashion a new bracket and rivet or otherwise attach it on the side that doesn't keep the brake bridge mount.
Another way is to make cutouts in the sides of the fender where they'd hit the sides of the caliper without cutting it all the way through. How well that works depends on the fender and how much you need to cut out to clear the brake.
Lastly, look into Raceblade Long fenders. They are separate pieces at the brake and they have quick release brackets that attach to the skewers. Basically, they are designed to give you almost full coverage on bikes that don't have room for fenders. One thing I particularly like about them is that they're quick to remove; so if you frequently need to remove wheels and load two bikes into a rental car (for example) they make your life a lot easier. Unfortunately they don't really work with wider tires. Honestly, I wish they'd make something halfway between those and regular fenders, and in wider widths, for the ease of removal. It would make so much sense for coupled touring bikes, for example.
Netdewt
02-22-2014, 01:54 PM
Your bike is a great candidate for fenders and racks. I also have a 1982 bike that I did a similar modification to: a 1982 Nishiki Cresta:
This looks awesome. It's 650B now right?
Do people run "700c" fenders on 650B Rando bikes?
Raceblade Long fenders
Definitely, I wish they made them wider.
Coluber42
02-22-2014, 02:40 PM
[QUOTE=Netdewt;1503416]This looks awesome. It's 650B now right?
No, it's 700c now. 650b is another wheel size. The rim is a smaller diameter, which allows you to run wider tires and have the outside diameter of the tire stay fairly close to the same as it is on a 700c wheel with a skinny tire. So it doesn't change your effective gearing and it fits in your frame, but with a fatter tire. It does mean building all new wheels, and you need to get new long reach brakes to reach the rim. And you don't have that many choices in rims and tires. But it's a good way to fit fenders and wider tires on a frame that otherwise doesn't have room for them.
My advice, to be honest, is not to obsess too much about tire width. Run whatever you can fit and jerry-rig your fenders if you have to. You can still have a fun and satisfying touring, commuting, or dirt road experience with tires under 30mm.
As far as going singlespeed goes, that's not mutually exclusive with any of the other changes you were talking about making by any means (except that if you were going to build new wheels and go 650b it's a consideration). Hauling groceries around town with a singlespeed is not a big deal and is even fairly common. Dirt roads and gravel on a singlespeed is fine until they get really steep. Brevets on a singlespeed are not unheard of either. Even loaded touring on a singlespeed is doable although you probably want to avoid mountains. Personally I prefer a fixed gear to a singlespeed, but to each his own.
whatwolf
02-22-2014, 03:29 PM
It's definitely possible and not that difficult to get racks and fenders on the same eyelet. Just use a longer bolt (if necessary) and put the rack on the interior. The tricky part, as people have mentioned, is trying to get as much tire as possible on bikes like these. I could squeeze in 700x25 with longboard fenders, even under the campy brakes. I suspect you may be able to do the same.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5513/12509641334_3aa2b83dee_z.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2873/12509172145_f35992420f_z.jpg
Netdewt
02-22-2014, 09:37 PM
No, it's 700c now. 650b is another wheel size.
I know mine is 700. I was asking about Saguaros bike. The tires are so chunky they look like 650 tires. Otherwise I can't quite tell.
Saguaro
02-23-2014, 12:27 PM
This looks awesome. It's 650B now right?
Nope, the Cresta has 700c Velocity Dyad rims laced to Phil Wood Touring Hubs. 36 h front, 40 h rear. The tires are Panaracer Pasela Tourguard 700 x 32C.
Netdewt
02-27-2014, 01:42 PM
I measured for kicks, and my chainstays (tightest spot) are 42mm @ 320mm from the axle. So I think 650b x 38 would work.
Do people use 700C fenders for 650B conversions? Or is it very important that 650B fenders be used? I ask because the 650B options are limited, it would be nice to start with the wheels I have and switch later, and big tire 650B vs small tire 700C have similar outside diameters (but how close?).
JAGI410
02-27-2014, 02:55 PM
I'd try the Soma 650Bx38s or Grand Bois Lierre (what I currently have). I used 700c hammered Velo Orange fenders. You need to massage them a little by pressing down on the crown of the fender with your thumbs while slightly spreading the edges. This widens the fender slightly and reduces the radius so the fender arc matches the tire diameter. Took me about 10 minutes per fender to do.
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