Gold Country Gran Fondo w/George H.

[whforrest]

Ok here's the deal. A part of me want's to shake his (George H) hand while the other part wants to call him a doper. I really respect the owner of the bike shop who is putting this event on and since the start is about a mile from my house I will definitely do this ride.

What's your take? It's a love/hate for me. The same for Levi at his Fondo. Great event, amazing riders and route, but what do you do when you lose all the respect you had for these riders. I still want to admire these guys but I can't.

Perhaps I'm not ready just to pretend nothing happened over the last few years.

I can't be the only one to think about this.


http://www.gcfondo.com/#home

[jtakeda]

If it were me and I was that upset id do 1 of two things.

1. Just not go.
2. Go and totally smoke George H.

If you're not confident you can do #2. Don't go.

[downtube]

Looks like a great ride, you should have a lot of fun. Enjoy the day.
chuck

[whforrest]

If it were me and I was that upset id do 1 of two things.

1. Just not go.
2. Go and totally smoke George H.

If you're not confident you can do #2. Don't go.

Not really looking for a smart ass comment. I've been a part of this sport since 1984. It's been my life blood for a long time. I'm not interested in shutting the door but keeping things open and growing. I raced in the us and europe clean when I was a junior. I got smoked by these guys. so yeah it's personal in that regard. but cycling is my shoreline like it is for many of us.

[Louis]

looks like a great ride, you should have a lot of fun. Enjoy the day.
Chuck

+1

[whforrest]

good stuff, I'm going and I will enjoy the day!

[jtakeda]

Not really looking for a smart ass comment. I've been a part of this sport since 1984. It's been my life blood for a long time. I'm not interested in shutting the door but keeping things open and growing. I raced in the us and europe clean when I was a junior. I got smoked by these guys. so yeah it's personal in that regard. but cycling is my shoreline like it is for many of us.

Sorry to offend you.

I was more meaning-it's better to beat him riding than to beat him with words by calling him a doper.

Definitely a smart ass way of saying it though and I've been known to be overly sarcastic at times.

Also it kind of takes away from the whole experience by pointing out the cheating thing, its not like he doesn't have it on the back of his mind either.

[whforrest]

Sorry to offend you.

I was more meaning-it's better to beat him riding than to beat him with words by calling him a doper.

Definitely a smart ass way of saying it though and I've been known to be overly sarcastic at times.

no worries, a little too intense from my comment too. happy cycling!

[fourflys]

every time I see a thread like this, one phrase always comes to mind… it's about throwing stones in glass houses…

Do the ride if you want for the ride… meet GH if want for the sake of saying you've met GH…

I love the sport of cycling, but I've never gotten paid to ride my bike… I've raced in competition in cyclocross and if my competitors were doping it certainly didn't make a difference to me since I wouldn't have finished on the podium regardless…

Just remember, this sport is a hobby the vast majority of use do when we have time away from family or the job… we aren't, for the most part, getting paid to ride our bikes… often times we are paying for the privilege to ride our bikes…

I guess I equate people being pissed about pros doping so it means their riding is something less to those people who say gay marriage makes their hetero marriage something less… I just don't get it… (sorry to get a little political there)…

sorry for the rant, but you asked for opinion...

[Rada]

every time I see a thread like this, one phrase always comes to mind… it's about throwing stones in glass houses…

Do the ride if you want for the ride… meet GH if want for the sake of saying you've met GH…

I love the sport of cycling, but I've never gotten paid to ride my bike… I've raced in competition in cyclocross and if my competitors were doping it certainly didn't make a difference to me since I wouldn't have finished on the podium regardless…

Just remember, this sport is a hobby the vast majority of use do when we have time away from family or the job… we aren't, for the most part, getting paid to ride our bikes… often times we are paying for the privilege to ride our bikes…

I guess I equate people being pissed about pros doping so it means their riding is something less to those people who say gay marriage makes their hetero marriage something less… I just don't get it… (sorry to get a little political there)…

sorry for the rant, but you asked for opinion...

Nice analogy, you nailed it.:bike:

[FlashUNC]

If it bothers you that much, don't go and support it. I know guys who refuse to ride Levi's or Hincapie's Gran Condos for precisely that reason.

[Hls2k6]

I really respect the owner of the bike shop who is putting this event

If you can't enjoy yourself, just don't go. Attending your friend's event for the purpose of confronting an admitted doper is just stupid.

[whforrest]

Glass house and gay marriage analogies don't really fit here. I just have to live in the grey and black/white areas at the same time. I appreciate people's point of perspective though.


interested in


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[whforrest]

Missing my point. You don't know me at all. I wouldn't go to an event to call someone a doper.


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[PaMtbRider]

I did the Bicycling Classic Fall Gran Fondo last year with George Hincapie. I saw him for about 10 seconds at the start about 50 yards away. Unless you were part of his inner circle of friends / editors you weren't getting anywhere close to him. I was totally ok with that because I was interested in the ride and not so much George.

[Elefantino]

Do the ride. It looks great. Ignore "honored guest" (that alone is worth a thread) George, if you have mixed feelings about him.

Looks like it's not a charity ride but a ride for profit by Folsom Bike. Don't know if that would have any bearing on anyone's participation, tho.

[Mr. Pink]

I did the Bicycling Classic Fall Gran Fondo last year with George Hincapie. I saw him for about 10 seconds at the start about 50 yards away. Unless you were part of his inner circle of friends / editors you weren't getting anywhere close to him. I was totally ok with that because I was interested in the ride and not so much George.

Ha. Same here at a ride in Baltimore county about four years ago. poof. gone. And then I was alone.

I would suggest doing some EPO to get into the spirit of things, and then enjoy the ride.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

If it bothers you that much, don't go and support it. I know guys who refuse to ride Levi's or Hincapie's Gran Condos for precisely that reason.

Up until last year, Levi's Gran Fondo (the King Ridge route) would sell out in a matter of hours. This year, it's been a month since they opened registration and they still haven't sold out the route. I think a bunch of people are staying away because of Levi's involvement in the doping scandal. Hopefully, the nonprofit can figure out a new name for the ride so that it can thrive. It is a great ride.

[echelon_john]

It's tough love, because plenty of these events raise money for great causes and have all the best intentions behind them, but the riding public needs to vote with its collective pocketbook here. Don't care much about Rider X's involvement in doping? Go pay, and ride.

Think what these guys did was wrong, and think that it's wrong that they're still lending their names and benefitting from goodwill associated with that act? Don't pay, and don't go.

Until the organizers see ex-dopers as more of a liability than an asset, the status quo will continue. It's dollars and cents; no more, no less.

[AgilisMerlin]

If you feel like meeting him and talking, go for it

That's why he's there (straight to the source)

Just a thought

[CunegoFan]

It's tough love, because plenty of these events raise money for great causes and have all the best intentions behind them, but the riding public needs to vote with its collective pocketbook here. Don't care much about Rider X's involvement in doping? Go pay, and ride.

Think what these guys did was wrong, and think that it's wrong that they're still lending their names and benefitting from goodwill associated with that act? Don't pay, and don't go.

Until the organizers see ex-dopers as more of a liability than an asset, the status quo will continue. It's dollars and cents; no more, no less.

Yeah. Things would have been much better if they had stayed in the U.S., racing for $12K and a spot on a friend's couch during winter, while someone else doped to take their place.

[echelon_john]

I don't buy the moral equivalency argument.

By that logic, we should all lie and cheat our way to the top just because some choose to. And the guys we're talking about DID choose to.



Yeah. Things would have been much better if they had stayed in the U.S., racing for $12K and a spot on a friend's couch during winter, while someone else doped to take their place.

[christian]

The doping is what it is. They put air in the tires and oxygen vectors in the blood. Part of the job. That said, I think GH was pretty complicit in riding the Lance train of destruction and I don't think I'd go on a ride where he was a "featured" rider.

I think I'd rather donate $50 to the local food bank, roust up a group of friends, and ride those same roads on another day.

BTW, you're blessed to live where you do. I love it up there. Amazing cycling and motorcycling, too.

[wildboar]

Poach it. Grab some coffee. Go home.

[MadRocketSci]

it's going to be a beautiful organized ride, who cares if GH is there or not. I honestly don't get the hero worship for people who can merely sustain a bigger gear than you or I. There are others way more deserving of your admiration or admonition.

[christian]

Poach it. Grab some coffee. Go home.

Don't do that. Low class.

[donevwil]

Missing my point. You don't know me at all. I wouldn't go to an event to call someone a doper.

With all due respect, you wrote "... the other part wants to call him a doper" in your original post. What are readers supposed to think you meant ?

[dzxc]

Seems like a lot of fun in a great location with what I assume are chill cycling people. Why not?

[pdmtong]

If it bothers you that much, don't go and support it. I know guys who refuse to ride Levi's or Hincapie's Gran Condos for precisely that reason.
I did the Levi ride #2 and #4. Ride fatigue and Levi apathy = no more. Plus, half day off work and hotel and reg = $$

I did the Bicycling Classic Fall Gran Fondo last year with George Hincapie. I saw him for about 10 seconds at the start about 50 yards away. Unless you were part of his inner circle of friends / editors you weren't getting anywhere close to him. I was totally ok with that because I was interested in the ride and not so much George.
Yes, do the ride because you want to do the ride. Little chance you'll meet/chat with George. Aside from the doping, this was one area that I think Levi really fell down on. It would be so easy for him to circle around the 30 miler group and say hi, shake some hands. Or ride up alongside the line up before the start and wave to everyone. But noooo. never saw the guy.

Up until last year, Levi's Gran Fondo (the King Ridge route) would sell out in a matter of hours. This year, it's been a month since they opened registration and they still haven't sold out the route. I think a bunch of people are staying away because of Levi's involvement in the doping scandal. Hopefully, the nonprofit can figure out a new name for the ride so that it can thrive. It is a great ride.
Yes, it is a GREAT ride. one of the only long rides that held my interest the entire way. I recall you did it the rain year - have you done it a dry year to make up for that disaster?

[veloduffer]

I think you need to separate your desire to do the ride and you feelings about George. GH is there to draw a bigger crowd, whose proceeds probably benefit charities. If I were able to actually meet and talk to him, I would ask about his experiences in races like Paris-Roubaix, which I would never be a participant.

I don't see doping in such black & white terms. Most of the peloton was doping, so I don't perceive there was any significant advantage. And because he did dope, does that make him less of a rider? Is Eddy Merckx lesser of a rider because he used amphetamines, the dope of the peloton at that time?

And what should be considered performance enhancing? I could call Advil, Aleve or other pain killer as performance enhancing if it alleviated the pain of injury such that I could ride better than if I did not take it.

It's easy to judge someone when you have never been in their shoes. Ask yourself if you have the fortitude to be a whistleblower in the company or industry that you work for, or the community/neighborhood which you live. We all hope to have that kind of strength, but it isn't easy to walk away from something that you have worked, trained and dreamt of your entire life.

The story is always more complicated than an outsider can know.

[wildboar]

Don't do that. Low class.

Sorry, meant no offense to the shop paying the appearance fee.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Yes, it is a GREAT ride. one of the only long rides that held my interest the entire way. I recall you did it the rain year - have you done it a dry year to make up for that disaster?

I did the ride the year before (2010) and it was unbelievably beautiful. Hands down the best organized ride I've ever done. So great I returned the next year when the cold rain made it a completely different ride. I've had thoughts of doing it again, but many factors have conspired against another attempt.

[whforrest]

Ok so the doped riders are still a part of the culture and most of us like this fondo ride concept. When I made the original post I was really asking if other people felt like they too were in the grey area regarding a desire to move on but maybe we didn't want to ignore the past. Somewhere in the middle. That's all. Most people either won't go or they don't care about the doping to make a stand. I was kinda in the middle. I'm gonna do the ride and have a good time.


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[choke]

Aside from the doping, this was one area that I think Levi really fell down on. It would be so easy for him to circle around the 30 miler group and say hi, shake some hands. Or ride up alongside the line up before the start and wave to everyone. But noooo. never saw the guy.I would have been surprised if it had been any other way. Back when Saturn sponsored a team the (relatively) local Saturn dealer held a ride each year with one team member. The first one I attended featured Clara Hughes and she was great; she tried to go around afterwards and chat with every person for a short time. The second year was Levi's turn and I only saw him at the start since he disappeared immediately after the ride - needless to say that formed a pretty negative view of him in my eyes.

As for a ride with GH, no way would I go, but I'm probably the only American who never rooted for him at any time.

[fourflys]

It's easy to judge someone when you have never been in their shoes. Ask yourself if you have the fortitude to be a whistleblower in the company or industry that you work for, or the community/neighborhood which you live. We all hope to have that kind of strength, but it isn't easy to walk away from something that you have worked, trained and dreamt of your entire life.

The story is always more complicated than an outsider can know.

yep, exactly what I was trying to say earlier…