Semi-Immediate OT Help Window/Heat

[1happygirl]

Ok so I know it's too early to be talking AC (I like to plan in advance though) but am needing heat too so would like the Paceline Brain Trust (PBT) thoughts on this.
You haven't steered me wrong so far..

I am needing to go with an economical heating /air unit or units.
I am looking at several units such as these LG window heat/air units.

My Question: Is it better to go with several (like THREE /one in each area of the cabin) 7,000 BTU units like this(http://www.lg.com/us/air-conditioners/lg-LW7013HR-window-air-conditioner) OR ONE 18,000 BTU unit (http://www.lg.com/us/air-conditioners/lg-LW1813HR-window-air-conditioner)?
Wanting to move some stuff out of storage to save money and need to get heat /ac in the cabin before I do it. With the larger unit I will have to have electrician for the 220 plug I think.
The difference in cost though is $399 for the 7,000 btus vs I think $649 for the 18,000 btu one.
Thanks again in advance. I am wanting to do this fairly quickly so I can put all my stuff in one place, save money and start riding more.

[kramnnim]

Will you need to keep all three running, or do some of the rooms go unused for extended periods?

[1happygirl]

Thanks K for the reply.

No I would keep all running. I also need to factor in the cost of the electrician should I have to install a 220 plug if I go with the large one.
It's just a secondary place but I wanna keep my stuff in climate control. I figured with 3 it would hit any dead spots.
I also know window units are not pretty but this is easy and cheap-er than going central as it is secondary

[pbarry]

Where are you? If you're in an arid climate, exhaust/whole house fans or an evaporative cooler will keep the temperature in a livable state.

OTOH, if you live in a humid and hot climate: Three window AC units power consumption for 4 months a year is pretty high. The initial bargain has its payback.

In either case, sealing off an attic or loft space from the lower floors with good insulation and an attic fan will substantially lower the temperature below.

[kramnnim]

I guess I don't know how much the new wiring would cost but is seems like it would be less than 3x$400 vs $650. The three would use more power but also have more power so they might not run as much? Wonder which is more efficient.

[1happygirl]

Yep, thanks guys.
I had kinda thought of the energy costs. In 75-90% humidity not even central helps much.
That was kinda the crux of the question if 3 would help eliminate some humidity and dead spots in the circulation. How efficient is it really?
Had a friend who heated/cooled a 1930s place with 3,000 sq feet and his window unit costs were unbelievably low due to multiple units. He may have closed areas off at times though. No telling I guess till I try it.

[pbarry]

Since you don't live there full time, any heat mitigation will work well enuf. Unless you are storing art or fine antiques, whenever you aren't occupying the space, cooling costs are free. :)

[Tandem Rider]

Sounds like it is a part time living arrangment soooo....
Maybe a PTAC unit? That is what you see in a motel room. Bigger than a window shaker, but only 1 electrical line to run. Downside is cutting a hole in the wall for it. If you aren't there during extreme temps, hot or cold, it may be enough.

[HenryA]

Long ago in another life I knew a older gentleman who had earlier been a facilities engineer for a major university. His version of a building with many offices and many through the wall a/c units was that with those he rarely had more than one person mad at him at once. He much preferred this situation to the alternative where the entire building was on one system. When that broke, everyone was mad and his life became pure hell.

That might apply in your instance. Multiple units might mean never being totally out of hot or cool air.

[572cv]

These Mitsubishi split systems are highly efficient and economical. An air to air heat exchanger with cooling as well as heat. They are slick.

http://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/

Just another data point to consider...

[DoubleButted]

My take: 3 times as many parts to break, but more working units when one does break. You may get some efficiency benefits wit the 3 units, since you effectively have 3 thermostats in 3 different rooms each with their unique heat gain characteristics. If one gets sun in the AM and one in the PM, 3 units will give you better control. Both are approx 1 Watt per 10 BTU so no real efficiencies of scale. If you want a professional's opinion, try heatinghelp.com. They helped me a lot with my radiant heat.

The mini-splits are real nice and have a lot smaller interior footprint, but sounded like you were going for self installed system.

[carpediemracing]

We have a 1500sf house, reasonably well insulated. Not great but reasonable. There's an "overlook", sort of an indoor balcony, which allows very good air circulation. It's sort of like having two staircases, if you will, since air can go up one and down the other. No need for two way flow in one staircase.

For AC we have (had) four units - two large ones on the main floor (similar to the large unit linked in the original post), two small ones on the upstairs (similar to the smaller unit in the original post). We have a finished basement (approx 500sf) that is not heated or cooled (electric heat that we've never turned on except during the home inspection).

In the summer we use one AC unit, a small one, upstairs. I use two fans to blow the air down the hall (#1) and down the stairs (#2). The hot air rises using the balcony thing and dumps into the hall upstairs, aka the balcony.

I used to use a third fan to blow cool air into the MBR "suite" (really just a bedroom with a full bath attached to it). However we now have a kitty in seclusion in that area so the AC goes on in there now since the door stays closed.

We removed one large AC unit. We haven't turned the other smaller one on in a couple years.

This set up is pretty nice. We use one primarily, a small unit. We have a large unit as backup. We have a second small unit as backup. We got rid of the second large unit as we never used it, literally turned it on for about 10 seconds one summer. Dust and debris flew out, we never turned it on after that.

The key for us is that we have good circulation in the house. Also I don't mind the fans.

The basement isn't as nice because there's only one staircase and basically the air doesn't like moving in both directions there. Plus we have to keep the door shut for safety (kitties, kid, clearance to walk past the door). Now that I think of it maybe we'll put a gate there and leave the door open. Hm.

We sometimes run a dehumidifier. It takes the edge off the humidity. The AC works well for that also, but that one single AC unit sometimes doesn't keep up.

[slidey]

My Question: Is it better to go with several (like THREE /one in each area of the cabin) 7,000 BTU units like this(http://www.lg.com/us/air-conditioners/lg-LW7013HR-window-air-conditioner) OR ONE 18,000 BTU unit (http://www.lg.com/us/air-conditioners/lg-LW1813HR-window-air-conditioner)?


It's just a secondary place but I wanna keep my stuff in climate control. I figured with 3 it would hit any dead spots.

Based solely on the statements above I'm a bit worried, enough to meddle in your affairs and proffer up some well-intended advice.
If this 'secondary place' of yours is not a laboratory that needs varying temperature conditions at different times of the year, then you're best off not wasting resources (money/time/energy).

Why not tell us what this 'stuff' is, so the members of the PBT (as you like to call this place) can give you some useful advice.

[oldpotatoe]

Based solely on the statements above I'm a bit worried, enough to meddle in your affairs and proffer up some well-intended advice.
If this 'secondary place' of yours is not a laboratory that needs varying temperature conditions at different times of the year, then you're best off not wasting resources (money/time/energy).

Why not tell us what this 'stuff' is, so the members of the PBT (as you like to call this place) can give you some useful advice.

Bet I know....

[1happygirl]

Esp. on the calculations and personal experience.
Thanks TR, not aware of what a PTAC unit was. I am trying to get away without making many structural changes.

HA, Great yes kinda what I was thinking about never being out of hot or cool.

572c, hmmm very interesting. Stuff not known before to the happy girl.

DB, thanks for the info on the the efficiency especially which is what I was wondering and the link.

CarpeR. Great exactly. Thanks for putting what I was trying to say into words about my friend's setup which was similar to the way you did it. Your energy costs are probably not very much that way? I was surprised that my friend's was half what others were this way when you'd really expect it to be double.

On the smaller units it is my understanding the heaters aren't as robust but with more than one should be efficient.

OP: I know you are in the stalag of Colorado but I wish it was Colorado "kinda stuff" and I was making money on it.

S: You are most certainly correct about time and energy. I needed to come back as my Dad may need surgery soon (I was completing an internship in another city is why I was gone). During the interim, I was commuting and BTW at certain points was driving $800 a month in gasoline bills yikes! the money I spent there! I do not regret checking in on family however I was not able to streamline and take care of things that, at that time, did not need immediate attention.
Had some property etc that will be closer.
Some items I would like to stash would be maybe a few bikes, duplicate trainers and rollers that are not being used, makeup (yeah I'm a gal and if you've priced that lately….cha-ching but products such as these don't do well in high heat and I don't do well in cold)
Books, lotsa books/papers. Spare computers (so I can quit carrying my other place with me wherever I go.)
Artwork that is valuable to me and I want to keep it nice. In humidity, it is hard to have papers, books , etc stay nice I think .
Just really house stuff large screen tv etc.
Some stuff in storage still but why continue to pay storage when I could just put in the house free and clear? This was the crux of it and how to do it efficiently and expeditiously. This property is closer to the parents. This will save me so much time and I can always go back to my main pad on weekends. The places now are ~2 hours apart so I'm getting closer. During the time of the internship, I also had an apartment in the city for the internship but since that's over I'm free of the apartment at least.
Thanks guys for your time in responding, help and info. I always learn about stuff I hadn't heard of or an angle on a problem I hadn't thought of .
PBT- more heads are better than 1..
happygirl

[Tandem Rider]

HG, quick synopsis of what I'm hearing talked about and a few observations on each.

Window shaker is the lowest upfront cost. Noisier, higher operating cost, and blocks up a window which is now somewhat non secured against entry. Disposable, parts aren't even available.

PTAC higher cost upfront, a little quieter, a little more efficient, doesn't block a window. Most repairs are possible.

Mini-split even higher cost upfront, a LOT quieter, a lot more efficient, doesn't block a window. Repairable.

All 3 of these are heatpumps which may or may not be practical in your climate. Supplemental heat may be needed if it gets too cold.

[Ken Robb]

There may be tax credits/rebates to help pay for a new heat/AC system. The programs vary with location so you may want to check that out.

The trade-off to consider: AC systems need to be sized carefully. If they have inadequate capacity you may not be able to get the temperature cool enough. OTOH if the system offers too much cooling it doesn't run long enough to adequately reduce humidity so you can feel cold/clammy.

I don't think one window unit could provide even distribution of heat/cooling so three smalls would be better in that regard but then you are blocking 3 windows.

A central system eliminate all these problems and be quieter but at a much higher cost. Some of these systems can be controlled remotely which might be a big advantage in controlling operating costs.

Another consideration is how long you expect to own/use the home. If you are planning to keep it for a long time you have many years to amortize the initial expense. If you think you may be selling it in a few years a central system may increase the price you can get by MORE than the system cost. There will be quite a few buyers who will not consider a home that lacks central heat/air.

[1happygirl]

HG, quick synopsis of what I'm hearing talked about and a few observations on each.
snip

There may be tax credits/rebates to help pay for a new heat/AC system. The programs vary with location so you may want to check that out.
snip
I don't think one window unit could provide even distribution of heat/cooling so three smalls would be better in that regard but then you are blocking 3 windows.
snip
Another consideration is how long you expect to own/use the home.
Thanks guys for the summary and additional considerations.

Since it's out a little ways, once the folks are gone, the properties are too. The not wanting to spend time driving is a consideration as is spending time and money to repair things, etc. If a small ac/heat unit for $350 it would be cheaper for me to just throw away and get new if it malfunctions. However, I'm finding that this is not the right time of year to get these units. Time for person to come out and repair things etc is a concern. There is not a mortgage on the property, so I want to be frugal. I don't care to put additional money into properties that I won't recoup.

[Ken Robb]

you might want to check with a local Realtor for an educated opinion as to what effect adding central heat/air would have on property value and ease of selling in your area. That can vary quite widely in different areas due to local norms and expectations.