Did I treat the bike shop ok?? I need your opinions, please.

[Sandy]

I try to treat people fairly. I also like to support bicycle shops. I have bought tires once from critusa and have bought once from Performance bikes at their website. Other than some purchases from Performance stores (mostly clothes, nutrition bars, and tubes) I buy everything from local shops, even though I know that I can save substantial amounts by not doing so.

Anyway, I decided to buy the Shimano compact crankset. Total Cycling had it for $187. Most mail order houses were between $250 and $270. I wanted to give a new shop some business. I was quoted $189 by the shop for the crankset. I called up the new shop and asked him if his price was correct since he seemed very low (except for Total Cycling). He said that it should have been $289. The owner had made several calls to Shimano to answer some questions that I had on the crankset. In the meantime, I called another shop that I have given a great deal of business to, and they said that the price was $260 minus my PPTC (club that I am in) 10% discount, giving me a price of $234. I never told the $289 shop the price that I had received. On his own the owner dropped the price to $274.

Since the new shop was $40-$50 more than the old shop, and was much further away, I decided to buy the crankset from the old shop. I felt guilty that I did not buy the item from the new shop, as he had made inquiries for me ( as did the old shop). I didn't try to "beat his price down". I can afford the extra $40-$50 dollars, but I thought the difference was just too much.

So should I feel guilty?

I can buy Michelin Pro Race 2 tires from crit USA for about $31 if I buy 3, which I might do. The local shops want $45 and I have to pick them up, whereas critusa delivers to your home. Once again, I can afford to pay the extra amount (as I always have in the past), and I like to support the local shops, as said before.

So questions:

1. Who should I have bought the crankset from?

2. Who should I buy the tires from?


Sandy

[lnomalley]

you should buy the crank for as little money as possible. that's how a free market works.

thank the bikeshop dude for the calls he made. tell him what you paid (with club discount). ask him if he can honor that same discount because you'd like to give him your business and maybe buy some soft goods from him because that's where they have the best mark-up/margin. no one strongarms anyone into owning a bikeshop. it's a tough business and a difficult industry. conversely, most shops are't run very well...
life's a b****. but as a consumer, your job is to find the best deal (understanding that there is more involved than just getting the product).

imho.

[yeehawfactor]

I try to treat people fairly. I also like to support bicycle shops. I have bought tires once from critusa and have bought once from Performance bikes at their website. Other than some purchases from Performance stores (mostly clothes, nutrition bars, and tubes) I buy everything from local shops, even though I know that I can save substantial amounts by not doing so.

Anyway, I decided to buy the Shimano compact crankset. Total Cycling had it for $187. Most mail order houses were between $250 and $270. I wanted to give a new shop some business. I was quoted $189 by the shop for the crankset. I called up the new shop and asked him if his price was correct since he seemed very low (except for Total Cycling). He said that it should have been $289. The owner had made several calls to Shimano to answer some qquestions that I had on the crankset. I the meantime, I called a nother shop that I have given a great deal of business to, and they said that the price was $26- minus my PPTC (club that I am in) 10% discount, giving me a price of $234. I never told the $289 shop the price that I had received. On his own the owner dropped the price to $274.

Since the new shop was $40-$50 more than the old shop,and was much further away, I decided to buy the crankset from the old shop. I felt guilty that did not buy the item from the new shop, as he had made inquiries for me. I didn't try to "beat his price down". I can afford the extra $40-$50 dollars, but I thought the difference ws just too much.

So should I feel guilty?

I can buy Michelin Pro Race 2 tires from crit USA for about $31 if I buy 3, which I might do. The local shops want $45 and I have to pick them up, whereas critusa delivers to your home. Once again, I can afford to pay the extra amount (as I always have in the past), but I like to support the local shops, as said before.

So questions:

1. Who should I have bought the crankset from?

2. Who should I buy the tires from?


Sandy
1. as a bikeshop guy 2x, i would not really care if you bought cranks somewhere else. what makes me mad is when people incessantly price shop, hold prices over my head, argue with me about why a real bike shop should charge this much more than the internet, tell me about the great deal they got somewhere else but thanks for your help, etc. if someone goes to another lbs and buys something, it's not really an issue. sure, it would be nice to have the business, but i can't really fault you for supporting another lbs.

2. your favorite lbs. go, look at cool stuff, touch cool stuff, ask them about xyz new product, shoot the sh1t, make fun of someone, make outrageous claims for the coming year, find something to buy that you don't need, pet the shop dog, use the bathroom, and then leave.

[gone]

I wouldn't feel guilty about purchasing the cranks from the cheaper, closer shop. Answering questions and calling vendors is part of the cost of doing business and I would expect that the questions you asked are not so uncommon that the answers can't be "leveraged" to another customer.

Like you, I believe in supporting local bike shops. Having said that, I purchase a fair amount of wear items (tires, tubes, etc) over the internet and when I'm doing a large purchase e.g., buying a complete gruppo to build a bike, price rules.

I've done more than $10k of business with the LBS that I frequent the most (in fact, I purchased my Legend ST from them) and it seems like I can't walk out of the place for less than $100. As a result, when I have a question or need some help, I don't feel bad at all calling them up. What I do *not* do though is pepper my LBS with questions, go and kick the tires on components/bikes/accessories/whatever then buy on the internet. If I take their time, they get my business.

Greg

[coylifut]

it's your duty to spend your family's resources as efficiently as possible. Inomalley is dead on, no one is forced to own a bike shop. I frequent a local bike shop to buy brake pads, cables and what-not and just about every time, the owner tries to sell me a $7k bike. He may just catch me at a weak moment one day.

[Sandy]

it's your duty to spend your family's resources as efficiently as possible. Inomalley is dead on, no one is forced to own a bike shop. I frequent a local bike shop to buy brake pads, cables and what-not and just about every time, the owner tries to sell me a $7k bike. He may just catch me at a weak moment one day.

Especially if he lowers the price to $2,000.



Sandy

[William]

In all fairness Sandy, I must tell you that that shop you bypassed contracted me to come down and "talk" to you about sending your business elsewhere. Due to other obligations I will be sending Rhea Basset in my stead. She will be having a long "BaaWoo!!" session with you so don't be trying to leave town. :no:

William


PS: She can't be bought or persuaded so don't even try. Especially don't try it with Chicken Milk Bones. :no: She won't go for it so don't try. I mean it, don't. Really really really don't do it. It most certainly won't work.



;) ;) :D

[keno]

how good could a bike shop be if is off the price by $100 and needs his customer to help him out? That fact says something to me. I would not put him on a pedestal. I would take him out of the bakeoff for the two reasons that his price is out of line and he doesn't know his goods. As to the others, you know best.

As to Danny at critUSA, support him. He's a good guy, honest as the day is long, trusting (I call him and tell him I'd like a few skins and some tubes, he leaves them in the front hall of his modest house, my tube/tire lbs, I drop by and pick them up and leave a check), and gives bulletproof prices and service. He's a retired guy who drives a school bus part time and does this to be involved and feel a little alive. He's about our age, has been involved with the Tour of Somerville forever (he's not and never was a rider, but has two sons both of whom I believe were the real deal), and should not be put out on the bicycle ice flow. And I guarantee that he won't try to sell you an(other) $8,000 bike.

Incidentally, you were in a business for years. How do you view your situation from the perspective of a business owner?

keno

[loctite]

I think the point is you are concerned about doing the right thing, good for you. As a shop guy, it sucks when someone nurses you for information and then buys elsewhere, especially fleaBay. But it happens! But remember advice is valuable!

Anyway thanks for caring, most people dont even think twice about nursing shops for advice and info and then backstabbing them and buying it stolen on ebay. Imagine how the shop dude feels when a guy comes walking in with that new part he bought on ebay for him to install, when he spent an hour trying to sell him that same part from his shelf earlier. People seem to be caring less and less about common decency!

[Sandy]

In all fairness Sandy, I must tell you that that shop you bypassed contracted me to come down and "talk" to you about sending your business elsewhere. Due to other obligations I will be sending Rhea Basset in my stead. She will be having a long "BaaWoo!!" session with you so don't be trying to leave town. :no:

William


PS: She can't be bought or persuaded so don't even try. Especially don't try it with Chicken Milk Bones. :no: She won't go for it so don't try. I mean it, don't. Really really really don't do it. It most certainly won't work.



;) ;) :D

Send her down. Crunch Crunch, my pit bull, will be waiting.

You come on too. Fluffy, my Chihuahua will be waiting for you.

Tommy, my trash man, will be waiting for both of you.


Shilo Shepherd Sandy

[Serpico]

Sandy, do you really have a pit bull?

And what about the mention of cats in your sig, what happened?

[Sandy]

No, I really don't have a pit bull. I do, however, feel the most empathy and concern for pit bulls. Unfortunately, pit bulls are the overwhelming choice to be used for fighting. They are remarkable in that they are very athletic, have great jaw strength, are very well muscled, tenacious, powerful, and loyal to their owners. They were originally bred as fighting dogs.

Pit bulls are often owned by irresponsible owners. In addition, indiscriminate breeding and breeding to maintain aggressive behavior is too common. It is a breed grossly mistreated by many of its owners, although there are many exceedingly responsible and caring owners.

There are some excellent characteristics of the breed- great affection and loyalty to its owners, and often affection and genuine friendliness to people. Unfortunately almost all of the press on the breeds (there are several) that comprise pit bulls are of an extremely negative nature.

All you have to do is to turn on Animal Planet on TV and watch a few episodes. You will soon see pits that are used for fighting (and trained for fighting), tremendously abused dogs (by the owners), and often dogs that are almost starved to death, literally.

If pit bulls were totally banned, they would be simply be replaced by another breed. Banning of the breed in several cities has simply not worked. I would consider banning the breed, not for the sake of humans, but for the sake of the dogs- so many are simply horrendously treated.

Would I own a pit bull. Yes if I was not near homes with kids (because the neighbors would be scared to death). I would not own one if I had kids, especially young ones. It is a breed in which you must be the alpha member of the family, as they will test your position. I would not own one if I had another dog.

I love dogs and have handled hundreds of pits, and have never had any trouble with any. But I do know of a staff member, at the shelter that I have volunteered at that was viciously attacked by a shelter pit bull, with very severe injuries. However, when I was told that a pit had attacked someone at the shelter, I knew without asking, who was attacked and by which dog. The dog was somewhat unique, in that its body language and actions exhibited a remarkably aggressive nature, and the staff member was much too careless in how he handled the dog.

I don't understand the cat comment in your post.



Siamese Sandy

[SoCalSteve]

I think the point is you are concerned about doing the right thing, good for you. As a shop guy, it sucks when someone nurses you for information and then buys elsewhere, especially fleaBay. But it happens! But remember advice is valuable!

Anyway thanks for caring, most people dont even think twice about nursing shops for advice and info and then backstabbing them and buying it stolen on ebay. Imagine how the shop dude feels when a guy comes walking in with that new part he bought on ebay for him to install, when he spent an hour trying to sell him that same part from his shelf earlier. People seem to be caring less and less about common decency!

I am sure that I am not alone in feeling that you have gone far enough and said enough disparaging remarks about ebay. Until you can prove to this Forum that all the negativity about ebay that you espouse is true, you may want to not insult ebay and all the good and decent people that use it. And, all the people who make an honest living with ebay, the shareholders, etc. Please, think about the impact of your words before you spew negativity.

It truly only makes you look bad.

All the best,

Steve

[Fixed]

bro don't sweat it sales guys are worried about today not yesterday so you saved a few bucks .the guys at a shop are always getting deals .forget it my shop treats me great they know I get deals but I don't try to lowball them... thats what ebay is for, they treat me like a bile shop employee. keep it under your hat cheers :beer:

[itsalldark]

This conversation is silly. How do you expect a brick and mortor business to compete with the internet, and why should he? All the questions were answered by a LBS, not the internet. The LBS has a much larger cost of doing business. Keep going to the internet for all your stuff and there will be no LBS to go and check out the latest and the greatest---or make those little adjustments to your bike that only somebody with experiance could make. Next time your bike is making a funny noise---hold it up tp the phone and see what your internet site does about it!!!!!!!!

[Brons2]

This conversation is silly. How do you expect a brick and mortor business to compete with the internet, and why should he? All the questions were answered by a LBS, not the internet. The LBS has a much larger cost of doing business. Keep going to the internet for all your stuff and there will be no LBS to go and check out the latest and the greatest---or make those little adjustments to your bike that only somebody with experiance could make. Next time your bike is making a funny noise---hold it up tp the phone and see what your internet site does about it!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you should re-read the original post. It was between 2 LBS's in this instance.

:beer:

[Sandy]

You may have missed what I was asking. I support the local shops remarkably well, and have used them almost exclusively. I was wondering if I was fair to one bicycle shop in buying an item from another one, when I started with one shop, and the owner did his best to help me. In actuality, the only reason that I went to the second shop was because I was trying to determine if the first shop gave me a price which was too low. It turned out that the first shop made an error, and I pointed it out to him.

The local shops cannot compete with what items are sold at over the internet. We all know that.

I totally agree with you on why we should support local shops. Sometimes, however, I feel that they often don't use good business sense.

Remeber that I supported a local shop. Also remember, please, that the reality is that there is genuine competition for bicycle shops from the internet and large distributors.


Often in the dark,


Sandy

[SoCalSteve]

This conversation is silly. How do you expect a brick and mortor business to compete with the internet, and why should he? All the questions were answered by a LBS, not the internet. The LBS has a much larger cost of doing business. Keep going to the internet for all your stuff and there will be no LBS to go and check out the latest and the greatest---or make those little adjustments to your bike that only somebody with experiance could make. Next time your bike is making a funny noise---hold it up tp the phone and see what your internet site does about it!!!!!!!!

I've learned more about cycling products online than any bike store salesperson could ever help me with...

And, I've had to start building all my bikes myself because when I have had my LBS build my bikes, there are always problems. They have become factorys that only care about charging higher labor prices and doing shoddy labor...

But, maybe this is all for the best, as I am now a competent bike wrench and with my knowledge of bike components, I could probably out sell all the sales people at my LBS....

But, we digress...

Thanks for reading,

Steve

[Fixed]

I've learned more about cycling products online than any bike store salesperson could ever help me with...

And, I've had to start building all my bikes myself because when I have had my LBS build my bikes, there are always problems. They have become factorys that only care about charging higher labor prices and doing shoddy labor...

But, maybe this is all for the best, as I am now a competent bike wrench and with my knowledge of bike components, I could probably out sell all the sales people at my LBS....

But, we digress...

Thanks for readiSteve

I agree if you get your info from a sales guy at a shop i feel sorry for you cheers :beer:

[Sandy]

It all depends upon which shop and which sales guy in the shop.


Salesman Sandy

[Ken Robb]

at my favorite LBS the owner is the best wrench I have seen or could even imagine. He's also my favorite salesman. I too have "learned" a lot on-line. Half of it was erroneous but my BS filter is getting better.

[bcm119]

This conversation is silly. How do you expect a brick and mortor business to compete with the internet, and why should he? All the questions were answered by a LBS, not the internet. The LBS has a much larger cost of doing business. Keep going to the internet for all your stuff and there will be no LBS to go and check out the latest and the greatest---or make those little adjustments to your bike that only somebody with experiance could make. Next time your bike is making a funny noise---hold it up tp the phone and see what your internet site does about it!!!!!!!!

I don't get the LBS vs. the internet debate. There are great LBS's and great Internet retailers, and there are terrible internet retailers and terrible LBS's. The distinction is "good" or "bad", not internet or LBS. The good ones will survive, and the bad ones won't.

[Jeff N.]

If there's a shop that I like to do business with , but I know I can get a certain item for markedly cheaper elsewhere, I give them a chance to at least match the price. If they do (which they usually do), I go with them. If not, I don't. And I don't feel guilty for going elsewhere or being non-supportive or whatever. The owner of the shop in question has a nice new Mercedes out in the parking lot, not to mention owning an Ottrott or two, so I know he's getting PLENTY of support! Jeff N.

[Sandy]

That is a very reasonable solution. Maybe I should have tried that. It does afford the shop the opportunity to either match the price, or at least come close to the price.


Sandy

PS- We need more :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: .

[Sandy]

I think that as the cyclist becomes more sophisticted relative to cycling and knows more often what he or she wants the less the local bicycle shop uses good sound business sense. A newbie doesn't buy several tires at a time, and doesn't know enough about which tires are good, and which aren't, as an example. But a more sophisticated cyclist knows a lot about tires, how much they cost, which ones that they want, and where they can buy them. How many of you buy your tires at a local shop at the normal markup given by the shop? I would think that a bicycle shop might consider the sophistication of the buyer and price him or her accordingly, perhaps by giving discounts for purchases of multiple items or volume purchases of a single item.

I often think that the local shop thinks that most of us are stupid.


Stupid Sophisticated Shimano Sandy

[loctite]

I am sure that I am not alone in feeling that you have gone far enough and said enough disparaging remarks about ebay. Until you can prove to this Forum that all the negativity about ebay that you espouse is true, you may want to not insult ebay and all the good and decent people that use it. And, all the people who make an honest living with ebay, the shareholders, etc. Please, think about the impact of your words before you spew negativity.

It truly only makes you look bad.

All the best,

Steve

Ok steve, from now on ill get your permision before i post my opinions on this "open forum". :rolleyes:

[BumbleBeeDave]

In my experience that doesn't apply only to bike shops. But fortunately, it's often more the individual you're dealing with than the philosophy of the business, and an experienced shopper can often sniff out that kind of attitude.

As for this particular deal, you're talking about nearly a hundred bucks between the cranks and the tires. I try to support my lbs. I buy my consumables there--lube, CO2, tubes, and sometimes tires. and I recommend the store to those who ask me for advice and get my service done there and never quibble about the cost. But on something like a major piece of equipment when the difference is $100 or more, I just can't ignore that. It's too much money to me as a consumer. I mean, that's at least a couple of weeks of groceries--or more. it's just the economics of business. If you feel you want to even things out with the store you didn't buy from, then get the tires from them, or some other things the next few times you need them. And let your friends know how helpful this guy was.

As for the pit bulls, I agree with you. The biggest abuse of the breed is in the way too many owners treat them as status symbols and macho crutches. It's really painful to watch some kid drag one down the street on a length of chain tied around its neck. But as a guy who values my hide in one piece, I gotta go with the precentages. Last I saw, for whatever reason, the top three breeds on the bite list were pits bulls, chows, and Rotties. So I give all three a wide berth. Cats are much cuddlier--and are smaller than I am! ;)

BBD

[Needs Help]

Incidentally, you were in a business for years. How do you view your situation from the perspective of a business owner?
When I started buying beef from a different distributor, two hulking guys with t-shirts that said "S Meats" showed up and broke both my kneecaps with a crowbar. :( I now realize "S Meats" is the best value for the money.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . why I switched to chicken! :rolleyes:

BBD

[Serpico]

No, I really don't have a pit bull. I do, however, feel the most empathy and concern for pit bulls. Unfortunately, pit bulls are the overwhelming choice to be used for fighting. They are remarkable in that they are very athletic, have great jaw strength, are very well muscled, tenacious, powerful, and loyal to their owners. They were originally bred as fighting dogs.

Pit bulls are often owned by irresponsible owners. In addition, indiscriminate breeding and breeding to maintain aggressive behavior is too common. It is a breed grossly mistreated by many of its owners, although there are many exceedingly responsible and caring owners.

There are some excellent characteristics of the breed- great affection and loyalty to its owners, and often affection and genuine friendliness to people. Unfortunately almost all of the press on the breeds (there are several) that comprise pit bulls are of an extremely negative nature.

All you have to do is to turn on Animal Planet on TV and watch a few episodes. You will soon see pits that are used for fighting (and trained for fighting), tremendously abused dogs (by the owners), and often dogs that are almost starved to death, literally.

If pit bulls were totally banned, they would be simply be replaced by another breed. Banning of the breed in several cities has simply not worked. I would consider banning the breed, not for the sake of humans, but for the sake of the dogs- so many are simply horrendously treated.

Would I own a pit bull. Yes if I was not near homes with kids (because the neighbors would be scared to death). I would not own one if I had kids, especially young ones. It is a breed in which you must be the alpha member of the family, as they will test your position. I would not own one if I had another dog.

I love dogs and have handled hundreds of pits, and have never had any trouble with any. But I do know of a staff member, at the shelter that I have volunteered at that was viciously attacked by a shelter pit bull, with very severe injuries. However, when I was told that a pit had attacked someone at the shelter, I knew without asking, who was attacked and by which dog. The dog was somewhat unique, in that its body language and actions exhibited a remarkably aggressive nature, and the staff member was much too careless in how he handled the dog.

I don't understand the cat comment in your post.



Siamese Sandy


Okay, I was just wondering--I don't know anything about dogs, you just didn't seem like the typical pitbull owner (probably not a fair generalization, but as you said it's true--the media stereotypes that particular dog and its owners).

Your signature used to say "Dogs and cats rule", but the cats have been dropped apparently--why the feline hatin'?

[vaxn8r]

....They have become factorys that only care about charging higher labor prices and doing shoddy labor...



Steve

That's not my experience anywhere I've lived. Admittedly I have been in some bad shops, but I don't use them and have never had difficulty fostering great relationships with bike shop owners and employees everywhere I've been.

Anyway, your post is really sad. Seriously.

[SoCalSteve]

That's not my experience anywhere I've lived. Admittedly I have been in some bad shops, but I don't use them and have never had difficulty fostering great relationships with bike shop owners and employees everywhere I've been.

Anyway, your post is really sad. Seriously.

Sad but true... in Los Angeles....

[Lifelover]

...
So questions:

1. Who should I have bought the crankset from?

2. Who should I buy the tires from?


Sandy


1. If his "inquiries" resulted in your decision to buy those cranks you should have got them from the new shop. Otherwise the old shop.

2. critusa

[SoCalSteve]

Ok steve, from now on ill get your permision before i post my opinions on this "open forum". :rolleyes:

Opinions are one thing...

Pure out and out negativity based on nothing is just wrong and serves no purpose on this Forum or anywhere else.

Please be positive..Or, if not, then at least helpful. Just not so negative. Didnt you mother ever teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all? Just a thought.

All the best,

Steve

[Sandy]

I had decided to buy the cranks before I called either shop. My decision was based upon what I read on this forum, what other cyclists told me, and a little from what I could obtain from the internet.

Your statement about buying the crankset from the new shop, if the "inquiries" resulted in making the purchase is an excellent one. Makes a great deal of sense relative to fairness.


Sandy

[vaxn8r]

I've learned more about cycling products online than any bike store salesperson could ever help me with...

And, I've had to start building all my bikes myself because when I have had my LBS build my bikes, there are always problems. They have become factorys that only care about charging higher labor prices and doing shoddy labor...

But, maybe this is all for the best, as I am now a competent bike wrench and with my knowledge of bike components, I could probably out sell all the sales people at my LBS....

But, we digress...

Thanks for reading,

Steve
To be fair Steve, this post wasn't too positive. Just sayin....

[shinomaster]

Sandy...The fact that you even care and are asking this question means that you are one of the most good hearted and good natured people out there--one of the best inmho.... I would have got it from Total cycling. I am however, morally bankrupt.

[manet]

Sandy...The fact that you even care and are asking this question means that you are one of the most good hearted and good natured people out there--one of the best inmho.... I would have got it from Total cycling. I am however, morally bankrupt.

well at least you have a pot to pee in

[shinomaster]

well at least you have a pot to pee in


what????? They are tea bowls, not pee bowls.

[djg]

Sandy, you treated each of the bike shops you mentioned, and all the thousands you didn't mention, just fine. Ya didn't lie, ya didn't cheat, ya didn't steal, ya didn't smack anybody. You went shopping. These are discretionary purchases of recreational consumer sporting goods. You get to make them, or not make them, as you like and can afford. If you had pondered the crankset only to change your mind at the last minute, sticking with what you had already, that would have been fine too. If, on the way to the sainted shop to make the purchase, you'd had your heart moved by a radio spot, and had decided to send yet another few hundred bucks to Doctors without Borders, that would have been fine too--rather nice, actually, and the bike shop would have managed.

It's nice that you are concerned. Really. Business isn't always entirely impersonal, or needn't be, and you'd like to establish and maintain good relationships because doing so might be to your benefit, and to the benefit of the shops with which you do business, and because it's ... dare I say it, nice. But there's no particular thing that relationship should have to be nor any particular amount of money or trouble it should be worth to you beyond your finding it so. I don't get the sense that you were being either dishonest or misleading with the first shop and I just don't see that you owe them more than that. Whatever it means to be a good customer, it cannot mean the same as being a good spouse: there's no such thing as cheating on your bike shop. It's ok to ask questions. It's ok to comparison shop. It's ok to keep your money in your wallet. That's how retail works. How much should you spend to nurture a relationship with a shop? How much time should you take? How relentlessly faithful should you be to your main shop (even when they don't have what you want, even when you're out of town)? How systematic should you be in working all this out? It's up to you. It's all fine.

[SoCalSteve]

To be fair Steve, this post wasn't too positive. Just sayin....

How is me learning about bike stuff and becoming my own wrench not positive?

Honestly, by bike stores not living up to my high expectations, it has really taught me to stand on my own, learn about the ins and outs of bikes and building them...

I am truly happy that this has hapened to me as I have become so much more independent.

Now I just have to learn to not be afraid of ladders, go on the roof of my very tall house and fix the skylight of leaks. (so, I can stand on my own and not have to call a roofer to fix it every time it leaks!)

Ok, I'm done.

Steve

[shaq-d]

wellllllll i have a hard time making spending habits a moral matter...

sd

[BumbleBeeDave]

Mass unproven generalizations are not becoming to either of you. Why not give it a rest and talk about dogs?

BBD

[William]

Send her down. Crunch Crunch, my pit bull, will be waiting.

~Rhea Basset likes Pit Bulls.~ :banana:


You come on too. Fluffy, my Chihuahua will be waiting for you.

~Rhea Basset likes Chihuahuas.~ :banana:


Tommy, my trash man, will be waiting for both of you.

~Rhea Basset likes trash men.~ :banana:


I have to clean up the yard everytime she's done with them. Yuck! What a mess. :eek:


William

PS: ~Rhea Basset likes you!~ ;)

[Sandy]

You better go out and buy Rhea Basset 2. :) :)



Sandy

[William]

No, I really don't have a pit bull. I do, however, feel the most empathy and concern for pit bulls. Unfortunately, pit bulls are the overwhelming choice to be used for fighting. They are remarkable in that they are very athletic, have great jaw strength, are very well muscled, tenacious, powerful, and loyal to their owners. They were originally bred as fighting dogs.
Yes they were. But they were bred to be animal aggressive. When pits were fighting the owners needed to be able to go in and seperate them without the dog turning on them. If a Pit attacked the handler they were generally culled out of the fighting stock. In essance bred to be people friendly. That's why they have been known as very loyal, great family dogs up until the end of this century. Very good natured toward people, but still had the tendency to be animal aggressive.

Pit bulls are often owned by irresponsible owners. In addition, indiscriminate breeding and breeding to maintain aggressive behavior is too common. It is a breed grossly mistreated by many of its owners, although there are many exceedingly responsible and caring owners.

Exactly.

There are some excellent characteristics of the breed- great affection and loyalty to its owners, and often affection and genuine friendliness to people. Unfortunately almost all of the press on the breeds (there are several) that comprise pit bulls are of an extremely negative nature.

True, in recent years one of the dogs that topped the highest incident of bites list was the Dalmation. Far fewer incidents of Pits biting. But, when pits do attack, due to their strength, tenacity and anchoring ability, the results tend to be worse and that makes news.
There is a women in the area whose mission is to help educate people about Pit Bulls (Bull Terrier, Stafforshire Terrier, etc...) and try to save dogs that can be saved. She will evaluate them and then bring them to her pet store and try to find homes for them. If they have been bred and taught to be too aggressive, she advocates putting them down. In conversations with her, she's found in her experience that brindled pits seem to have a higher incidence of unpredictable/aggressive behavior. She's not sure exactly why, but the statistics of the dogs she's handled indicate that. Rhode Island has a huge problem with dealers and gangs using pits around the Providence, Central Falls, and Pawtucket areas. My studio is in Pawtucket and I've seen numerous Pits running around loose. There are a lot of Pitts who end up in the shelters with little hope of being saved. The aggressive ones are rightly put down, the ones that aren't suffer from misunderstanding, will not be adopted, and in the end, will be put down.

It's unfortunate that such a loyal, people freindly breed has been mistreated and maligned by a$$hole drug dealers, gang bangers, and sensationalistic news media.


When we were looking for a dog to adopt, I came across a young Staffordshire Terrier at a local shelter. He was a really sweet guy who wanted nothing but belly rubs and to be close to you. He was really good with me and I observed him with the handlers as well and there was nothing to indicate an aggressive nature. The women at the shelter praised him and I knew as well as she did that it would be tough to find him a home because of the reputation. At another shelter there was another young Staffordshire that seemed really nice. He let me pet him, let my wife pet him, tail wagging the whole time. When my son walked buy his pen he lunged at him growling and barking. I personally think that it was because my son was wearing a winter jacket with the hood pulled up over his head, but the point was, this dog lunged at my son. I think they can be great, loyal dogs, but I would not put one with families with small children. To much bad breeding has happened in the last 20 years.

Sad William

[Kevin]

Anybody have a good handlebar to reccomend?

Kevin

[loctite]

Opinions are one thing...

Pure out and out negativity based on nothing is just wrong and serves no purpose on this Forum or anywhere else.

Please be positive..Or, if not, then at least helpful. Just not so negative. Didnt you mother ever teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all? Just a thought.

All the best,

Steve

Positive? Give me a break is this statement positive? "They have become factorys that only care about charging higher labor prices and doing shoddy labor"

[SoCalSteve]

Mass unproven generalizations are not becoming to either of you. Why not give it a rest and talk about dogs?

BBD

I'm done...

Reaching my hand out to shake Loctites.

And, I would love to get a dog, problem is, my wife has 2 older cats that are pretty set in their ways. Maybe in a few years.

Steve

[Jeff N.]

No, lets NOT talk about freakin' dogs. But if you'd like, talk to my neighbor whose Great friggin' Dane won't shut the heck up at all hours. :crap: Gettin to be time to pull out the ol' Callahan Special. Jeff N.

[Ken Robb]

Hey Jeff, I feel your pain about constantly barking dogs. We had good results using a bark collar that gave the barker a spritz of something like citronella when he sounded off. Electric shock collars are also available but that wasn't something we were ready to use.

I know the dog isn't yours so have you discussed the situation with the owner? He may not know how bad it is if the barking occurs when the owner is away. Good luck.

I'm about to list my mom-in-law's home in La Mesa for sale and while I was measuring it last week two curs belonging to the renters next door went berserk while I was there. I hope they only sound off when a stranger approaches their territory.

[SGP]

sunday morn @ 2am my dogs woke me up with their "hey human, there is something in the yard!" dance. when we got out side i could here the neighborhood dogs goin' ape ***** and i could here the howling of coyotes that was making the dogs nuts. the sound gave me chills.

[loctite]

Mass unproven generalizations are not becoming to either of you. Why not give it a rest and talk about dogs?

BBD
All pitbulls are slobering idiots. ];) Its all good Steve, cyber handshake back at ya!

[Jeff N.]

All pitbulls are slobering idiots. ];) Its all good Steve, cyber handshake back at ya!NOW your talkin' dogs, bro! I know this guy at work. He was talking about how his pitbulls keep fighting all the time, and did I know any way to stop them from that behavior. I said, "You bet! I have a fool-proof way of stopping them!". He was fascinated and said, "How, man? I've tried everything!". I pulled out my simulated .45 Auto, and said, "Two shots to the head each!". :D Jeff N.