Skewer failure

[thinpin]

A few weeks ago my wife complained of being unable to lock her front wheel.
On inspection I found the cam lever lose and unsecured. The hubs and levers are from Tune.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5535/12451106844_a6c19388ac_z.jpg

I inspected the rear skewer and with the gentlest of ease I achieved the same result by pulling on the lever!
So I email Tune with the photos.
Here is the reply

Hello John,

we´re so sad to see this damage. But you can repair the skewer at youself. You only need some Loctite glue.

Clean the silver rivet and put some glue into the drilling from the lever, put the lever through the skewer head and the excentrical sleeve. Put the silver rivet from the opposite in the drilling from the exentrical sleeve and the repair is done.

Please wait a night before you use the skewer again.

best regards
Manuel Dold

One word - gobsmacked.
Am I being too cautious, sounds like a whacky risk to take.
By the way I fully appreciate the inherent superiority of shimano and campagnolo internal cam levers and unless you're desperate to get your post count up please spare me;)

[rustychisel]

hmmm, not gobsmacked, but...

I thought at first I was seeing a broken skewer shaft and they were saying 'glue it up, it'll be fine'.

I'd replace that with 'something else' and call it a lesson learned from the sheer stupidity of some lightweight components (not pointing the finger at you, your wife, or even Tune particularly, but we all like to go downhill fast and not have to be thinking if the front wheel will still be there at the bottom, right?)

[d_douglas]

Gobsmacked! If I were them, I would've never sent that email. I see lawsuit written all over it.

I find superlight parts scary. I know Tune stuff has a good reputation, but I have always been weary of their stuff for some reason - now I know why.

[velotrack]

I wouldn't trust a company that suggests such a repair. Just own up to a broken part and send a new piece in.

[joosttx]

There are better ways to off your wife than having her ride bikes with ultra light skewers. I would count yourself lucky and buy some dura ace skewers.

[rustychisel]

just noticed your forum name.

thinpin. Ironic, no?

[AnthonyC]

Yeah, echoing the above sentiment: Dura-Ace and never worry about your skewers again.

[donevwil]

At work and at home I use Loctite all the time on threads with excellent results. However, on pins one MUST use a Loctite designed specifically for cylindrical interfaces and for the size of the gap, the less the gap the more unpredictable it is. On top of that prep is even more critical. I've had inconsistent results with this at best and the failure of your wife's two skewers proves that Tune has as well.

Grab a couple skewers from Shimano or Campy, give your wife a kiss and count your blessings.

[jtakeda]

I was eyeing those skewers at the LBS.

My eyes will wander somewhere else now.

[thinpin]

just noticed your forum name.

thinpin. Ironic, no?
Oui.

[weisan]

Hey thin-pal, good to see you here...if it's my bike and me riding it, I have no problem following the repair advice. My tribe needs some thinning anyway...:banana:
I won't do it to a spouse though, it just perpetuates the age.old discussioin...'she makes me do it." :fight:

[fuzzalow]

Never use super duper lightweight parts for a daily rider. A couple of grams, in a location of non-rotating mass, is not worth the bother or expense. IMO right up there with titanium bottom bracket spindles.

The missus caught a lucky break, better lucky than good any day.

[Ahneida Ride]

This is why I sent the extra frn and got the old style Campy Skewers.

[Saint Vitus]

I wouldn't trust a company that suggests such a repair. Just own up to a broken part and send a new piece in.

And learn to spell! It's ECCENTRIC! Eccentrical is the archaic variant btw.

[FlashUNC]

Lightweight skewers are just asking for trouble. Worst place in the world to try to save weight.

[Vientomas]

If the skewer is closed and the lever falls out, will the skewer open and the wheel fall off? Or is it like the anti-theft skewers with the removable levers? The lever is used to open and close the skewer but once the wheel is secured, the lever is removed and only re-inserted to open the skewer. If this is the case than if the lever falls out and you can't remove your wheel it would be an obvious inconvenience (can't change a tube or tire), but is not necessarily a situation where the skewer will open and the wheel will fall off.

[oldpotatoe]

I wouldn't trust a company that suggests such a repair. Just own up to a broken part and send a new piece in.

Or nod, throw these in the trash, get some shimano/Campagnolo/Mavic QRs and use them.

[Idris Icabod]

And learn to spell! It's ECCENTRIC! Eccentrical is the archaic variant btw.

How's your spelling in a second language? I assume this fellow is German.

[zap]

Ah, ever practical Germans. I guess Tune's response does not go over well in the USA.

Repair is pretty straightforward but if you are not comfortable with this one, there are other skewers (light or heavy) out there.

[kramnnim]

It looks like the pin is only there to keep the lever in place when the lever is in the "open" position? The same way that other companies use a (much more secure) circlip?

If you're just going to throw them away, I'd buy them...

Edit: Hmm, but on these the cam part of the lever doesn't extend through both sides of the red clamp part. Yeah, that's kind of scary.

Edit 2: Looks like the cam part of the lever does extend into the red cap, it's just hard to see. So not as scary.

[David Kirk]

Or nod, throw these in the trash, get some shimano/Campagnolo/Mavic QRs and use them.

I couldn't agree more.

I'd toss them in the recycle bin.


dave

[Saint Vitus]

How's your spelling in a second language? I assume this fellow is German.

I wouldn't assume anything. And further more if he is German, you'd think he'd be more Teutonic about getting things correct, no?

[sales guy]

Or nod, throw these in the trash, get some shimano/Campagnolo/Mavic QRs and use them.

I cracked a Campy Record and Mavic 500/550/571 era quick release and the newer Mavic alloy and composite ones also. Never had an issue with super light ones or Shimanos tho.

[cnighbor1]

Skewer failure I had a rear skewer fail to hold after working for years. than I read that that non major ban had problems. I still can't quite figure why. You just tighten quick release till it holds wheel in place. if it doesn't you adjust it and it should hold. why it didn't a mystery to me
I seen the rods snap.
Charles

[Lewis Moon]

For road wheels in vertical dropouts, I think most folks tighten the skewer way more than required. My rule is to tighten the adjuster nut until the lever starts tightening the skewer somewhere a little past horizontal (180* to the skewer). As someone said earlier, on vertical dropouts, all the skewer does is hold the wheel in the dropouts.

[thwart]

Yikes.

Not that I'm any fan of personal injury lawyers :butt: :butt: :butt:

… but you can tell this is not something designed in the US market.

[Gsinill]

Hmm... (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/furthermore) ;)
Zorry couldn't rezizt...

I wouldn't assume anything. And further more if he is German, you'd think he'd be more Teutonic about getting things correct, no?

[Tony]

I've been using Far and Near Carbon Road Skewers and KCNC Titanium Road Skewers for several years with no problems, ever.
Two friends are using the ENVE Titanium Road Skewers, and again no issues.

[pbarry]

I cracked a Campy Record and Mavic 500/550/571 era quick release and the newer Mavic alloy and composite ones also. Never had an issue with super light ones or Shimanos tho.

Please expand on the your riding use and technique for QR adjustment. Seriously interested to know. :)

[bcroslin]

A friend mentioned to me today that Dura Ace skewers have been known to stretch and then fail. It has something to do with the titanium construction. Has anyone heard of such a thing?

[sales guy]

Please expand on the your riding use and technique for QR adjustment. Seriously interested to know. :)

The campy and mavic classic skewers, the bell end cracked. Where the levers go into the cam.
The composite and alloy mavics, they come apart at the bell end. The steel serrated piece comes loose and can move from the bell. The composite ones, had one move and didn't know it and closed it and mashed up the composite bell.

These are all on normal road bikes. Nothing special and I am light on bikes. Cleaned after after ride and stripped down every winter.

[sales guy]

A friend mentioned to me today that Dura Ace skewers have been known to stretch and then fail. It has something to do with the titanium construction. Has anyone heard of such a thing?

They don't use ti in their skewers. Unless I am missing something. It is usually a steel rod, serrations and cam and alloy everything else. I've never had or seen a Shimano break before. They are out there of course. Just never seen one.

[Saint Vitus]

Hmm... (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/furthermore) ;)
Zorry couldn't rezizt...

Hahahaha! yeah well the speeling iz korrect, just that space got in the way no? lol

[brownhound]

Thread revival because newly relevant...

Two weeks ago I suffered a crash when my front wheel popped out.

On the last leg of a 30 mile ride, I heard some front rotor rub while going down a hill (ca. 25 mph) and thought "I'd better check that out when I get home." At the bottom of the hill I stopped at a red light, then turned left into a park with a small curb to ride up. Immediately I found myself on the ground.

Long story short: broken vertebra, broken nose, cut on my brow, helmet cracked across the crown. It could've been much, much worse. Still have plenty of soreness in my neck, shoulder, wrist. And have yet to deal with my nose, which is a huge PITA.

The only thing I can think of was that the front skewer popped open on the ride. And yes, it was a Tune ti skewer. I've never had a skewer pop like that.

[redir]

Yikes! I hope you heal up fast and recover 100%.

[Mark McM]

Wow, so sorry to hear about your crash. I hope your injuries heal up quickly.

Since you mention rotor rub, does that mean the front brake is a disc brake? Does the fork have vertical dropouts? Do the dropouts have "lawyer lips"? Did the QR have a titanium skewer?

There is a know issue with front disc brakes that can cause a wheel to be pulled out of the drop out under braking forces. Due to the location of the caliper and diameter of the rotor, hard braking can generate a upward force on the caliper, and this force can be greater than the gravity force pushing the fork down onto the wheel. And on/off brake forces can work to "wiggle" the axle out of the dropouts (and a titanium skewer has less clamping stiffness, which would exaggerate this problem). This is one of the reasons that disc brake bikes have moved to thru-axles.

[picstloup]

Or nod, throw these in the trash, get some shimano/Campagnolo/Mavic QRs and use them.

this...I've used shimano and campy for a long time, no problems, yet ! :)

[brownhound]

Wow, so sorry to hear about your crash. I hope your injuries heal up quickly.

Since you mention rotor rub, does that mean the front brake is a disc brake? Does the fork have vertical dropouts? Do the dropouts have "lawyer lips"? Did the QR have a titanium skewer?

There is a know issue with front disc brakes that can cause a wheel to be pulled out of the drop out under braking forces.

Yes to disc, vertical dropouts, and skewers; no to lawyer tabs.

Fascinating, if discomfiting. Certainly I will be getting a different pair of steel skewers, and potentially selling the frameset.

[sg8357]

Poor timing at the Rene Herse store......

https://www.renehersecycles.com/tune-quick-releases/

[p nut]

Yikes. I don’t think you need to sell the frame because of this. I have plenty of miles on disc/QR bikes (road and mountain). Zero failures to date, knock on wood.

Note, ALL of them used Shimano or Campagnolo internal cam skewers. I also have some Paul’s that might be in use some day.

The only time I had an issue (in the garage and not riding, fortunately), was when I accidentally used 130mm rear skewer on a 135mm bikes. Stripped the threads when I tightened down since it didn’t engage all the way.

[NHAero]

Yes to disc, vertical dropouts, and skewers; no to lawyer tabs.

Fascinating, if discomfiting. Certainly I will be getting a different pair of steel skewers, and potentially selling the frameset.

So sorry to hear about your crash. Heal up soon. One thing I really appreciated about the Dave Anderson frame I sold to you is that Dave aimed the QR fork dropouts facing forward, so the disc brake forces couldn't rotate the wheel out of the fork.

[foo_fighter]

Seems like a triple-bad combo.

Maybe consider Bolt-On Skewers or DT RWS Skewers or Internal Cam Skewers.
Those will have higher clamping force than external cam skewers. Also add skewer tightening as a pre-flight check.

Yeah, thru-axles are safer but the thru-axle can also loosen. Many QR disc forks have "reverse" drop outs that also help.

Yes to disc, vertical dropouts, and skewers; no to lawyer tabs.

Fascinating, if discomfiting. Certainly I will be getting a different pair of steel skewers, and potentially selling the frameset.

[brownhound]

So sorry to hear about your crash. Heal up soon. One thing I really appreciated about the Dave Anderson frame I sold to you is that Dave aimed the QR fork dropouts facing forward, so the disc brake forces couldn't rotate the wheel out of the fork.

...it was that bike

It survived with only some minor paint scraping on the inside of the fork. Otherwise, that fork handled the crash quite well.

[unterhausen]

Sorry about the crash, that would take me some time to get over psychologically as well as physically.

Poor timing at the Rene Herse store......

https://www.renehersecycles.com/tune-quick-releases/

My first thought was that someone had bumped it because of that post at RH

I have the DT skewers on my disc bike and they have been great. I also use Shimano skewers on that bike. Seems prudent.

[foo_fighter]

Perhaps, it wasn't the braking force that dis-lodge the wheel then.

Do you instinctively pull up on the handle bars when going over things?(I know I do.)

...it was that bike

It survived with only some minor paint scraping on the inside of the fork. Otherwise, that fork handled the crash quite well.

[Pegoready]

Poor timing at the Rene Herse store......

https://www.renehersecycles.com/tune-quick-releases/

This is oddly on brand for Rene Herse.

Descending down a mountain at 50 mph, you now have two potential ways to lose your teeth... an extra light RH tire losing its tubeless seal or the Tune skewer breaking.

[Mark McM]

Yes to disc, vertical dropouts, and skewers; no to lawyer tabs.

One thing I really appreciated about the Dave Anderson frame I sold to you is that Dave aimed the QR fork dropouts facing forward, so the disc brake forces couldn't rotate the wheel out of the fork.

Wait, I'm confused - do the dropouts face downward or forward?

[Mark McM]

Perhaps, it wasn't the braking force that dis-lodge the wheel then.

Do you instinctively pull up on the handle bars when going over things?(I know I do.)

How would that cause the skewer to loosen or the wheel to be pulled out?

[brownhound]

Perhaps, it wasn't the braking force that dis-lodge the wheel then.

Do you instinctively pull up on the handle bars when going over things?(I know I do.)

I assume it was either me pulling up on the bars or going over the bump into the park that let the wheel fall out of the dropouts. I assume the wheel had begun to dislodge prior to that, hence the rotor rub of an unseated wheel.

[brownhound]

Wait, I'm confused - do the dropouts face downward or forward?

Agreed - facing forward but also downward (not literally vertical). I don't know if the diagnosis for disc brakes and titanium QR skewers would make a difference. If it does, then, yes, they're forward-facing. Which apparently is not a cure-all.

[NHAero]

Wait, I'm confused - do the dropouts face downward or forward?

Photo attached

[NHAero]

Snip
If it does, then, yes, they're forward-facing. Which apparently is not a cure-all.

Forward facing dropouts don't prevent issues with skewers that aren't tight enough, but if the skewer has enough bite to keep the wheel from sliding forward, the dropout geometry is withstanding the downword force applied by the brake.

[Mark McM]

Merely pulling up on the handlebars (or lifting the wheel off the ground) shouldn't cause enough force for the wheel to fall out. The wheel only weighs a a few lbs. versus the potentially hundreds of pounds pushing down on the wheel (forward weight shift when braking hard can transfer virtually all the rider's weight onto the front wheel).

As mentioned before, disc brakes can exert a large downward force on the axle. This can be an issue with vertical dropouts, but horizontal dropouts should retain the axle. However, there is another mechanism related to disc brakes that can cause skewer loosening. Disc brakes can exert a large torque on the left fork leg that is not experienced by the right fork leg. This can cause the left fork dropout to twist with respect to the right dropout when the brakes are applied. Each time the brake is applied and released, the skewer is rotated counter-clockwise and then back clockwise. If the skewer was not adequately tightened, this can eventually cause the skewer nut to unscrew.

[foo_fighter]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/V-H8SM14OI8

How would that cause the skewer to loosen or the wheel to be pulled out?

[witcombusa]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/V-H8SM14OI8

That was done on purpose for a wheel less wheelie. Why do you think the video was rolling?

[unterhausen]

Not saying the dropouts had anything to do with this crash, but I prefer my dropouts to have more downward tilt to them so gravity helps. Those look to be essentially horizontal.

[foo_fighter]

It was a joke....to use an obviously exaggerated situation to point out what could have happened....
Obviously something did dislodge the wheel.

When I roll over potholes, cattle grates and other road obstacles, it's not inconceivable to completely un-weight the front wheel. Maybe that's carried over from riding mountain bikes.

That was done on purpose for a wheel less wheelie. Why do you think the video was rolling?

[NHAero]

Not saying the dropouts had anything to do with this crash, but I prefer my dropouts to have more downward tilt to them so gravity helps. Those look to be essentially horizontal.

I am missing your point, sorry. the reason these are horizontal is because this is a disc fork built pre-thru axle. The dropouts resist the force from the disc brake being applied that wants to rotate the wheel downward. Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying?