Not really OT: bike mechanic salaries.

[sales guy]

An interesting thing a friend posted on Facebook.


http://www.slideshare.net/donnyperry/bike-mechanic-salaries

[oliver1850]

There's a thread on thechainlink forum where a young guy is asking if he should go to mechanic school with the idea of making a career as a mechanic. The response has not been very encouraging, or very complimentary about the schools.

[oldpotatoe]

There's a thread on thechainlink forum where a young guy is asking if he should go to mechanic school with the idea of making a career as a mechanic. The response has not been very encouraging, or very complimentary about the schools.

Most car mechanics start at car dealers, after good training, with factory financial help, they can guide them to a real career.

Besides the fact bike stores, bikes sold, the $ involved, is a small, teeny fraction of car biz, all the advantages of 'dealers', don't exist in bikes.

Another place to compare are ski techs., what do they get paid?

Not surprised, particularly considering the 2 'schools', not impressed by them.

I think a 'BSE', ala ASE(Automotive Service Excellence) would help along with factory stores, like Chevy.

[4Rings6Stars]

An interesting thing a friend posted on Facebook.


http://www.slideshare.net/donnyperry/bike-mechanic-salaries

It's interesting, but there are LOTS of holes in the logic and it's insultingly oversimplified...

[biker72]

This may well be the average wage of a Texas bike mechanic but totally inaccurate where I work.

[Coluber42]

It's hard to make money running a bike shop. It's hard to compete with cheap online retailers who don't have the overhead of storefronts, knowledgeable staff, service departments, etc. It's hard to convince customers to pay what it actually costs to fix their bikes (which actually has a lot more costs than just a few minutes of a mechanic's time).
But in general, it's hard to run a retail store front of most kinds and pay your staff wages that will allow them to live alone in a 1-bedroom apartment in a major city. Bike mechanics are hardly alone in that.

[CircuitHero]

Funny that they forgot my city on that list. I make almost double the average and I know most of my colleagues are doing alright for what it's worth.

[sales guy]

I know there are many guys making twice what's listed for certain cities. My guys is this NBDA data collected from shops. Which of course can be fudged a bit to suit the shop owners needs. When I worked at a shop in the 90's in Vhicago I was making 50+ and loved every minute of it. I was a 20 something in school and was super fit, rode all the time and the owner of the shop asked me questions about stuff. It was fantastic!

[texbike]

It's a basic function of supply and demand. The demand for bike mechanics is low (in relative terms to other in-demand occupations like programmers) here in the U.S. while the supply of those that would love to work in a shop is higher than the demand. The result? Low salaries.

I think this theory is born out in the data supplied in the presentation with the 3 states listed as the lowest paying, having the lowest number of cyclists per capita. The demand just isn't there.

If you want salaries to increase, either shrink the supply of mechanics (unionized workers with a journeyman program perhaps to control the competent supply of mechanics, maybe?) or increase the demand (get more people riding OR continue to increase the complexity of bikes and components to increase the demand for trained mechanics).

texbike

[BumbleBeeDave]

Go talk to a personal trainer at your local gym, especially the chains, and find out how much of what YOU pay for a training session actually goes to THEM.

When I tried it I had 28 clients at one time, worked horrible schedule (5am-9am, then 3-8pm) and lots of hours and once in 9 months netted more than $300. I knew of no trainer there who was in a one income household. If I were retired and doing it for fun instead of money it would have been cool. But I'm not and it wasn't.

Very difficult to find an experience wrench around here. I'm very lucky to have pro mechanic Dave over at Savile Road. Does it cost more than the local college student moonlighting at (insert name here)? Well, yeah. But I know it will be done right.

BBD

[FastVegan]

but all the bike mechanics i know have the hottest bikes.

seriously, that is not a lot of money.I am glad I fix cars and not bikes.

[Schmed]

I'm not sure what the point of these slides is.....

Is the author proposing a "solution"?
Should there be a mandatory minimum pay for bike mechanics?
If $2x,xxx/year isn't the right number, then what is?
Also... a 1BR rental in NYC is more than $3000/month? Then move.

Not unlike the minimum wage, I'm not sure that being a bike mechanic is supposed to provide an income that allows you to buy a big house, pay for kids' colleges, retirement, etc.

If you are a great bike mechanic, your shop should be getting a lot of business because of you, and if they are smart, they'll pay you accordingly. If not, you'll go somewhere else, and that shop can pay you accordingly.

I use one shop for most of my work because of the mechanic they have. If he goes to a different shop in town, I'll probably follow him. If he's smart, he'll communicate that to his shop owner, and negotiate a nice wage, and everyone wins!

[oddsaabs]

Being a guy who grew up in bike shops and enjoyed life as a pro mechanic (before going off to grad school and making my mother happy) I have to say that if someone wants to make a career of being a bike mechanic they need to find ways to differentiate themselves from the crowd. That could be becoming the best at a particular speciality (suspension, wheel building, fitting, etc.) or having experience working with the best riders and mechanics. The schools are good, but there is no replacement for experience.

For me the game changer was flying to Colorado Springs in 1987 and volunteering with the USCF as a wrench for rider development camps. The experience was amazing and opened doors to all sorts of opportunities. If it wasn't for Bill Woodul and the USCF Mechanics Program (now USA Cycling https://www.usacycling.org/mechanics/ ) I would have never made it to Europe as a pro mechanic. That type of experience can't be taught at a school or even at the foot of a master mechanic. Dave at Savile Rd. will tell you the same story. Pay your dues, work like hell in miserable conditions, and have the time of you life. That sort of experience on the resume will certainly separate you from the masses.

[kenmetzger]

The link's main problem is just to use averages. A career mechanic is probably what one should look at and not the part time people working at Performance just so they can buy at wholesale. Also looking at average rent is misleading. Instead, what the base price for a one bedroom apartment is. I am not saying that a bike mechanic is paid well, but not as dire as being presented.

[oldpotatoe]

It's interesting, but there are LOTS of holes in the logic and it's insultingly oversimplified...

Well, last I talked to a trek dealer, the percent of gross they expect from service is 10-15%. Their $ are in bikes, accessories, soft goods. 'Some' bike stores even view service as on the liability side of the balance sheet. Their $ goes to where the $ is, sales.

[oddsaabs]

Their $ goes to where the $ is, sales.

Which is why having an excellent mechanic on board is even more important. A great shop will sell that it has the best mechanic and therefore the best service and care for that expensive new rig the buyer just picked out. We will always prefer that our equipment is prepared by the best available professionals.

[gdw]

So what was the point of the slideshow? Are we supposed to feel sorry for the average bike mechanic who apparently isn't intelligent enough to find a job which pays more than what the average high school dropout earned in 2003?

[Mr. Pink]

Well, expect this to stay the same as many old Boomers do this work part time to supplement SS, and get cheap parts.

[oldpotatoe]

Which is why having an excellent mechanic on board is even more important. A great shop will sell that it has the best mechanic and therefore the best service and care for that expensive new rig the buyer just picked out. We will always prefer that our equipment is prepared by the best available professionals.

Well, of course but to get a good wrench, owner has to pay for it and the biz has to be able to support the $ spent.

AND LBS, USA, the average bike price, is not very much.

[oddsaabs]

Well, of course but to get a good wrench, owner has to pay for it and the biz has to be able to support the $ spent.

AND LBS, USA, the average bike price, is not very much.

Agreed. It's why so many go back to grad school.

[summilux]

Agreed. It's why so many go back to grad school.

In many jobs that pay poorly to begin with, there is some kind of anticipated future financial payoff. Start as a line cook, end up as Thomas Keller kinda thing. Are young wrenches hoping for something in the future? Own a shop? Share of the business? Be picked up by a pro team?

Some wrenches aren't in it for the money. Last year, I spent some time at a local community bike co-op (Santro Velo in Montreal) and a few of the volunteer wrenches had jobs as paid wrenches. Gotta respect guys who are underpaid to begin with and then do it for free to help people out!

[HenryA]

Someone who is really interested in making money and working and an employer who has some idea of sharing the revenue can do well. The wrench can make good money for himself and his employer. Labor can actually be a major profit center of the shop.

But if you just want to work on bikes 'cause they're cool and turn your nose up at cheap bikes and don't have your act together with proper support by stocking enough of the right parts, you'll hate it and go broke.

Bike shops are notorious for being "life style" businesses. But that cool life style won't keep one running for long unless there's some hard and smart work put out on a regular basis.

[54ny77]

marry rich.

[cookietom]

marry rich.

Name one.....

[commonguy001]

I don't spend a ton of time at bike shops anymore but when I raced I frequented the sponsor shop to BS and whatnot where most of the mechanics weren't doing it as a career or life calling. It was working in an industry they loved while going to school for whatever was going to pay the bills down the road.
Of the guys I was real friendly with, all moved on with only two are still in the business although not at shops (one at QBP in the Surly brand and another as a Shimano rep). The others all got their degrees and moved to non industry jobs most of us who spent many a Friday night there swilling cold ones.

Were they underpaid with a benefit package best described as missing? Yep, that's probably being kind.

Good guys, all of them and I'm glad they were there as I not only liked sharing beers with them but actually had some stuff done at that shop to help keep them busy.

[pbarry]

Hmm, was a wrench when I was young--didn't see a future there without owning a shop. Seems like, in good markets, it's better now. That said: Certified diesel mechanics make really good wages, and have secure jobs with benefits when working for a mid to large sized employer. And, it's a field that is still supported by vo-tec schools. Something to consider for people with good wrench instincts.

[bikinchris]

Well, last I talked to a trek dealer, the percent of gross they expect from service is 10-15%. Their $ are in bikes, accessories, soft goods. 'Some' bike stores even view service as on the liability side of the balance sheet. Their $ goes to where the $ is, sales.

And those bike shops need to close. I once heard a bike shop owner state "Any monkey can be a bike mechanic." and he meant it. His shop is closed.
The service department is what makes money for car dealers and it SHOULD be what is making money for shops. Get a set of balls and charge what it is worth as well as promoting it and lining up enough billable hours to make money.
I know car mechanics who make more than the managers. They work their butt off and bill hours. many shops could pay mechanics a bonus for billable hours and that would be fair. Quit taking them off of jobs to install accessories for free. Charge the customer to install accessories.

[bikinchris]

Someone who is really interested in making money and working and an employer who has some idea of sharing the revenue can do well. The wrench can make good money for himself and his employer. Labor can actually be a major profit center of the shop.

But if you just want to work on bikes 'cause they're cool and turn your nose up at cheap bikes and don't have your act together with proper support by stocking enough of the right parts, you'll hate it and go broke.

Bike shops are notorious for being "life style" businesses. But that cool life style won't keep one running for long unless there's some hard and smart work put out on a regular basis.

This

[AngryScientist]

Charge the customer to install accessories.

i get the idea you're driving at, but this is probably a terrible idea, in general.

it's harder and harder to justify buying a $70 tire at a bike shop when you can get the same one on-line for $40, same with ANY other bike accessory. always cheaper to just order the stuff. if the LBS starts telling customers "you can get that tire for $40 online, OR you can pay me $70 for it, and another $15 to install it" - that's not going to go well.

the LBS has a hard enough time trying to justify their existence, bleeding more money out of customers is probably not the answer.

[oldpotatoe]

And those bike shops need to close. I once heard a bike shop owner state "Any monkey can be a bike mechanic." and he meant it. His shop is closed.
The service department is what makes money for car dealers and it SHOULD be what is making money for shops. Get a set of balls and charge what it is worth as well as promoting it and lining up enough billable hours to make money.
I know car mechanics who make more than the managers. They work their butt off and bill hours. many shops could pay mechanics a bonus for billable hours and that would be fair. Quit taking them off of jobs to install accessories for free. Charge the customer to install accessories.

Spoken like a non small business owner-apologies if you are a small biz owner.

'Should" but what you said is just not true. The vast majority of $ in bike or car dealers is in new bike/car sales.....

Assembling bikes, service after the sale, putting on cages and seat leashes...all for shops that sell a bunch of bikes, are expenses. Charge the customer for that and that customer will tell 21 people and the shop a mile away will thrive.

Best margin is service, why here, there are about 5-6 car dealers and 40 plus car repair places but don't expect a big shop, who sell 30-40 bikes per day, to put a bunch of $ into service..particularly when margins on bikes is so poor.

[zap]

Just had a local bicycle shop service my Rock Shox fork.

I initially went in to get a box to ship the fork to NC. Was pleasantly surprised when staff said "we can rebuild it". Only shop in my area that does.

I purchased new Assos bibs (S7's) from this shop that day.

Anyhow, the fork. It was not inexpensive to rebuild. I tried to perform service on this fork and did not reassemble it correctly (Motion Control bits came loose when bouncing around in the woods). I also did not have the tools to replace some seals. So knowing this, I thought the charge was appropriate. Would not surprise me if someone who had no clue what was involved would have thought the charge excessive.

[ais99spoke]

i get the idea you're driving at, but this is probably a terrible idea, in general.

it's harder and harder to justify buying a $70 tire at a bike shop when you can get the same one on-line for $40, same with ANY other bike accessory. always cheaper to just order the stuff. if the LBS starts telling customers "you can get that tire for $40 online, OR you can pay me $70 for it, and another $15 to install it" - that's not going to go well.

the LBS has a hard enough time trying to justify their existence, bleeding more money out of customers is probably not the answer.

Ironically, I think the "problem" of online sales killing the LBS --- could conceivably end up being the Solution to the problem of stagnated wages. Yes. Retail margins significantly subsidize the bottom lines of most bike shops. and Yes. This margin is being eroded more every single year.

I'm imagining a shop that opens up and announces: "We're gonna match our retail markup to average online retail markup. But we're also gonna charge what service actually costs."

I think this business could do pretty well, actually. In the right market....

And in a few years, as the Amazon/Nashbar/Performance effect continues to squeeze LBSes everywhere, this new model could turn out to look pretty darn good.

Plenty of manufacturers have MAP policies, which would have to be considered, but that seems like a solvable detail. Anyone know an LBS already doing something like this? Anyone know an LBS that operates as a "service only" shop with minimal retail (parts, accessories would be impossible to trim, but i see no reason that every single shop has to retail bikes).

[oldpotatoe]

Ironically, I think the "problem" of online sales killing the LBS --- could conceivably end up being the Solution to the problem of stagnated wages. Yes. Retail margins significantly subsidize the bottom lines of most bike shops. and Yes. This margin is being eroded more every single year.

I'm imagining a shop that opens up and announces: "We're gonna match our retail markup to average online retail markup. But we're also gonna charge what service actually costs."

I think this business could do pretty well, actually. In the right market....

And in a few years, as the Amazon/Nashbar/Performance effect continues to squeeze LBSes everywhere, this new model could turn out to look pretty darn good.

Plenty of manufacturers have MAP policies, which would have to be considered, but that seems like a solvable detail. Anyone know an LBS already doing something like this? Anyone know an LBS that operates as a "service only" shop with minimal retail (parts, accessories would be impossible to trim, but i see no reason that every single shop has to retail bikes).

Vecchio's..60% of gross service, custom wheels.

BUT if 'markup' same as MO, unless you have the volume to do it, or your fixed expenses(labor a BIG part) are really, really low, you are gone. 37% is about minimum 'margin'...divide cost, wholesale by .63 to get margin.

For comparison.

http://gawker.com/airline-pilots-get-paid-crap-1521393608

[OtayBW]

I'm imagining a shop that opens up and announces: "We're gonna match our retail markup to average online retail markup. But we're also gonna charge what service actually costs."

I think this business could do pretty well, actually. In the right market....Shops around here charge $85/hr bench time for service. How does your plan differ from that kind of approach?

[bikinchris]

Spoken like a non small business owner-apologies if you are a small biz owner.

'Should" but what you said is just not true. The vast majority of $ in bike or car dealers is in new bike/car sales.....

Assembling bikes, service after the sale, putting on cages and seat leashes...all for shops that sell a bunch of bikes, are expenses. Charge the customer for that and that customer will tell 21 people and the shop a mile away will thrive.

Best margin is service, why here, there are about 5-6 car dealers and 40 plus car repair places but don't expect a big shop, who sell 30-40 bikes per day, to put a bunch of $ into service..particularly when margins on bikes is so poor.

I worked for 15 years in dealerships. The ones that have done the best understand that a great service department sells cars.
The amount of profit on selling a new car at full invoice will make money, but almost no one pays full invoice.
When you figure in floor plan (the amount they pay to borrow the money to keep the car on the lot before it is sold) and hold back (it's like a kick back from the manufacturer that can vary depending on who buys the car) and the salary of the chain of people needed to sell cars along with overhead, you are doing well to make about 1% on cars. A lot of money gets moved around but not much is made.
One of our local dealers moves 15 million per year but grosses 1.5% profit. They are actually doing pretty well. many dealerships gross much less. They do it partly because they have more shop work than they can keep up with. A good reputation in the service department is what makes them a lot of money.

[oldpotatoe]

I worked for 15 years in dealerships. The ones that have done the best understand that a great service department sells cars.
The amount of profit on selling a new car at full invoice will make money, but almost no one pays full invoice.
When you figure in floor plan (the amount they pay to borrow the money to keep the car on the lot before it is sold) and hold back (it's like a kick back from the manufacturer that can vary depending on who buys the car) and the salary of the chain of people needed to sell cars along with overhead, you are doing well to make about 1% on cars. A lot of money gets moved around but not much is made.
One of our local dealers moves 15 million per year but grosses 1.5% profit. They are actually doing pretty well. many dealerships gross much less. They do it partly because they have more shop work than they can keep up with. A good reputation in the service department is what makes them a lot of money.

Why I think for bike shops to survive long run..and actually be able to pay decent wages and have a path for advancement/career..you need 'factory stores'..not 'concept stores' but shops that are actually owned by the parent company so all those financial incentives can be 'shared' by the dealer.

BUT ain't gonna happen.

1.5%..that's net income, not gross..I would assume.

[CaptStash]

Why I think for bike shops to survive long run..and actually be able to pay decent wages and have a path for advancement/career..you need 'factory stores'..not 'concept stores' but shops that are actually owned by the parent company so all those financial incentives can be 'shared' by the dealer.

BUT ain't gonna happen.

1.5%..that's net income, not gross..I would assume.

Isn't that what Performance Stores are for the most part?

CaptStash....