View Full Version : Danielson or Zabriskie?
sellsworth
01-30-2006, 06:14 PM
If you had build a Grand Tour team around Tom Danielson or David Zabriskie who would you pick? Who has the best chance for long-term success?
I'd go with Zabriskie. Apparently he is climbing better this year (even up with Basso) and of course he has time trialing down pretty well. I think Danielson has a great chance at winning some key mountain stages but don't think that his time trialing will ever be good enough for a podium finish.
if you're building your grand tour team around either of those guys you are in trouble.
jerk
Hysbrian
01-30-2006, 06:49 PM
if you're building your grand tour team around either of those guys you are in trouble.
jerk
who would you pick?
I think that Mr. 60 has a good set up this year.
e-RICHIE
01-30-2006, 07:20 PM
Z-Man Hands Down ATMO
fiamme red
01-30-2006, 07:26 PM
Z-Man Hands Down ATMO
POTT!
fstrthnu
01-30-2006, 08:13 PM
IMHO they are both homo's Bro. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :banana:
Fstrthnu
manet
01-30-2006, 08:16 PM
http://www.cycling4fans.de/uploads/pics/boyer_eric_Jack_Claasen_de_wielersite.jpg
Rich_W
01-30-2006, 08:18 PM
now this is an entertaining thread... while I agree with Jerk... if I was forced to pick, I'd go with Zman.
I doubt Danielson will even ride the tour this year.
Frustration
01-30-2006, 08:20 PM
Danielson would need to get close to performing at Zabriskies level before comparisons get made... Yellow in Malaysia versus Yellow in France (if only for a bit) are two waaaay different things.
sellsworth
01-30-2006, 09:00 PM
if you're building your grand tour team around either of those guys you are in trouble.
jerk
OK I'll change my hypothetical question:
Say you are the Director Sportif of Quick-Step and you want to win more than some Classics and the Worlds in the next few years. Maybe you want a key mountain stage or time trial in the Tour. Who would you recruit - Zabriskie or Danielson?
e-RICHIE
01-30-2006, 09:07 PM
OK I'll change my hypothetical question:
Say you are the Director Sportif of Quick-Step and you want to win more than some Classics and the Worlds in the next few years. Maybe you want a key mountain stage or time trial in the Tour. Who would you recruit - Zabriskie or Danielson?
Z-MAN
neither, the jerk would recruit sgr. ferretti and fire himself. then feretti would hire a good psychiatrist and frank vdb, matt decanio and some other crazy kids the jerk knows and the team would have a field day in the tour. go f#ck yourself if you hate italy and miss your burrittos, taco bell and your white trash friends. some people would have given their eye teeth for what that jackass gave up with fassa.
jerk
fstrthnu
01-30-2006, 09:08 PM
OK I'll change my hypothetical question:
Say you are the Director Sportif of Quick-Step and you want to win more than some Classics and the Worlds in the next few years. Maybe you want a key mountain stage or time trial in the Tour. Who would you recruit - Zabriskie or Danielson?
Zabriskie for the TT.
Danielson for the Climb.
What is Your Point?
Savodelli is the most underated rider out there. Far more class than those two softies.
Fstrthnu
Zabriskie for the TT.
Danielson for the Climb.
What is Your Point?
Savodelli is the most underated rider out there. Far more class than those two softies.
Fstrthnu
fstrthnu in either event if we're levelling the (ahem, the farmacia is open) playing field.
jerk
fstrthnu
01-30-2006, 09:19 PM
fstrthnu in either event if we're levelling the (ahem, the farmacia is open) playing field.
jerk
They playing field is level. All three go to the farmacia.
... for vitamins... :rolleyes: ... and toothpaste
Fstrthnu
shinomaster
01-30-2006, 09:19 PM
Jerk, what do you mean? I don't understand.
They playing field is level. All three go to the farmacia.
... for vitamins... :rolleyes: ... and toothpaste
Fstrthnu
can you tell which aisle the "wheatgerm" is in?
jerk
fstrthnu
01-30-2006, 09:24 PM
Its over by the Bio-Val protein-free pasta.
9 euros.
Mad Painful.
Fstrthnu
sellsworth
01-30-2006, 09:26 PM
Zabriskie for the TT.
Danielson for the Climb.
What is Your Point?
Savodelli is the most underated rider out there. Far more class than those two softies.
Fstrthnu
I have no point in particular other than to wonder which of these has a better chance of long term success in Grand Tours. Monday evening fodder. No more and no less.
fstrthnu
01-30-2006, 09:29 PM
I have no point in particular other than to wonder which of these has a better chance of long term success in Grand Tours. Monday evening fodder. No more and no less.
In that case Danielson because he tends to FINISH stage races.
Fstrthnu
Fixed
01-30-2006, 09:44 PM
bro can either one stay up? cheers :beer: I agree I like the falcon too
soulspinner
01-31-2006, 05:40 AM
Its not in the aisle, its in the alley(dimly lit)...
saab2000
01-31-2006, 07:34 AM
go f#ck yourself if you hate italy and miss your burrittos, taco bell and your white trash friends. some people would have given their eye teeth for what that jackass gave up with fassa.
jerk
WORD!!!!!
ClutchCargo
01-31-2006, 08:04 AM
... go f#ck yourself if you hate italy and miss your burrittos, taco bell and your white trash friends. some people would have given their eye teeth for what that jackass gave up with fassa.
jerk
you seem to have a pretty strong opinion about this ("white trash friends" ? -- not that there's anything wrong with that, right?). so I have a question: are you saying that it was solely Tom D's fault that his experience with Fassa didn't work out? I mean, many players have signed with, say, the Yankees where it hasn't worked out - for whatever reason - and then they've gone on and thrived in Oakland or Dallas or wherever. anyway, from over here, at least, it appeared that Fassa didn't really do much with him once they signed him.
oh, and what about Chris Horner, should he f#ck himself too? and how do you feel about Tim Johnson, should he b#gger himself? what was the deal with those guys?
B#gger on/B#gger off!
JohnS
01-31-2006, 08:20 AM
I mean, many players have signed with, say, the Yankees where it hasn't worked out - for whatever reason - and then they've gone on and thrived in Oakland or Dallas or wherever.
B#gger on/B#gger off!
Dallas? Are we mixing up sports here?
Hysbrian
01-31-2006, 08:24 AM
you seem to have a pretty strong opinion about this ("white trash friends" ? -- not that there's anything wrong with that, right?). so I have a question: are you saying that it was solely Tom D's fault that his experience with Fassa didn't work out? I mean, many players have signed with, say, the Yankees where it hasn't worked out - for whatever reason - and then they've gone on and thrived in Oakland or Dallas or wherever. anyway, from over here, at least, it appeared that Fassa didn't really do much with him once they signed him.
oh, and what about Chris Horner, should he f#ck himself too? and how do you feel about Tim Johnson, should he b#gger himself? what was the deal with those guys?
B#gger on/B#gger off!
I think that Danielson needed/wanted someone to baby him. He wasn't able to make it in Italy on his own. People would have killed to be in his posistion.
Tim and Chris both had different issues. Tim is by far one of the nicest people I have ever met, and his reasons for needing to be back in the states were much more than "I miss my burrittos". As for Chris, I don't know, when I saw him in the tour, I gave him a big push and told him to start moving!
saab2000
01-31-2006, 08:36 AM
Going to Europe to race can be a lonely experience. There is no glamour. The image the glossy mags give is not what it is like. It is hard, you will feel alone and you MUST perform. It is a job and you will have people every day wondering why you can't if you don't.
TD is probably a great guy, but by all accounts did nothing to try to fit in in Italy, from learning the language (or even trying) to eating their food, etc.
I hope he can succeed. Really. But the opportunity he had at Fassa Bortolo was unmatched by almost anything else available. It was one of the top teams and he had the incredible luxury of having Allesandro Pettachi who won races, thus meaning he did not have to win. But he did have to try and finish races and fit in with his team.
Wanna do well in Europe? It's gonna take some serious sacrifices and homesickness is one of them.
e-RICHIE
01-31-2006, 08:43 AM
i like z-man, potential wise. i saw him win the junior natz about 2 miles from my house. he's been in the system for almost 10 years. danielson, otoh, is gifted without a doubt. i see him more as a modern version of a tomac or martinez; a really talented racer who exceled in one discipline (mtb) and can also kiss ash in a domestic road race, but is not the go-to guy around which a team's european based road season is built. z has been over there for years and has clearly assimilated - and he's younger too atmo cheers. :beer:
jeffg
01-31-2006, 08:50 AM
neither, the jerk would recruit sgr. ferretti and fire himself. then feretti would hire a good psychiatrist and frank vdb, matt decanio and some other crazy kids the jerk knows and the team would have a field day in the tour. go f#ck yourself if you hate italy and miss your burrittos, taco bell and your white trash friends. some people would have given their eye teeth for what that jackass gave up with fassa.
jerk
Fassa? Oh yeah, that was a team once. Much better than Sony, I hear
What about Basso? Where is your venom for him "giving up what he had with Fassa" after Ferretti gave up on "an expensive rider who doesn't win races" and let him go to CSC? Basso and his white trash homies make me sick ;)
At least Ferretti can play pro cycling manager video game ... Is it available for playstation?
ClutchCargo
01-31-2006, 09:03 AM
Dallas? Are we mixing up sports here?
guess I should've said "Arlington "
mtflycaster
01-31-2006, 09:25 AM
Not sure about all the venom. I'm no racing insider like the Jerk, but I do expect all of these guys to do what they think is in their personal best interest. Don't we all?
Danielson is an immensely talented climber, no doubt. However, after having a couple of chances to interact with him here in town, and watching his interviews on TV, I have to say that I wonder where the fire is. You just don't see it. Maybe it is there when he races, but he seems to lack the confidence and fire of Lance, certainly, and maybe some of his other Discovery mates as well. I fear that this may be his biggest flaw.
Haven't observed Zabriskie in the same way, so I don't know.
I do hope they both have great years this year.
93legendti
01-31-2006, 11:10 AM
Not sure about all the venom. I'm no racing insider like the Jerk, but I do expect all of these guys to do what they think is in their personal best interest. Don't we all?
Danielson is an immensely talented climber, no doubt. However, after having a couple of chances to interact with him here in town, and watching his interviews on TV, I have to say that I wonder where the fire is. You just don't see it. Maybe it is there when he races, but he seems to lack the confidence and fire of Lance, certainly, and maybe some of his other Discovery mates as well. I fear that this may be his biggest flaw.
Haven't observed Zabriskie in the same way, so I don't know.
I do hope they both have great years this year.
Funny, Lance's "confidence and fire" probably had many here calling him an a**hole, d*ck and/or c*cky -- who couldn't keep friends and had no loyalty.
As for "confidence and fire", David Z, while an IMMENSE talent, is probably the world's worst interview...the guy barely says anything!
The road will settle this discussion. We are lucky to have both racers and I would love to see one or both fighting for top podium places in Grand Tours for the next 5-7 years.
BreakwindSports
01-31-2006, 12:40 PM
Our organization cannot afford either rider, and niether can we enter our team in major stage races...or any stage races...or any races, really. As such, we don't care.
However, when offered the choice of a moderately-talented climber, who should probably be a domestique, and a stage-winning time-trialist, our organization would prefer the latter. Since niether of them is going to win a tour, we would prefer to sign the one who has proven he can win a stage. But then again, we only have a handful of riders and they're all rather awful...so what do we know?
e-RICHIE
01-31-2006, 12:44 PM
so what do we know?
is that a rhetorical question?
BreakwindSports
01-31-2006, 12:48 PM
is that a rhetorical question?
Ask Aristotle -- he wrote the book.
theworm
01-31-2006, 05:31 PM
As for "confidence and fire", David Z, while an IMMENSE talent, is probably the world's worst interview...the guy barely says anything!
Are you kidding? He is the best interviewee in the history of the world:
"Rock'n'roll dude"
He's a pretty good interviewer too. Check out his in the peloton interviews: http://www.davezabriskie.com/pages/1/index.htm (scroll down).
Hysbrian
01-31-2006, 06:16 PM
www.davezabriskie.com, "Just the other day Lombardi showed me how to apply cream to his chamois, my fingers still smell a little weird but it was worth its weight in gold for the experience alone."
ummm, yeah...
www.davezabriskie.com, "Just the other day Lombardi showed me how to apply cream to his chamois, my fingers still smell a little weird but it was worth its weight in gold for the experience alone."
ummm, yeah...
wow. that's wonderful.
jerk
The Spider
02-01-2006, 10:17 AM
yeah, a while back he had an entire article on personal hygiene and chamois care, it was pretty good....strikes me as a man with alot of personality, and that's a good thing....he could definetly have a spot on Team Spider.
93legendti
02-01-2006, 11:03 AM
Look up a live interview of his from the 2005 TdF-- it was like pulling teeth. Maybe he has improved.
sellsworth
02-01-2006, 11:49 AM
Look up a live interview of his from the 2005 TdF-- it was like pulling teeth. Maybe he has improved.
So how does Zabriskie stack up with Hamiliton in terms of interviewing? Hamilton is pretty bad - I don't know if it's possible to get much worse than him.
Zabriskie seems to be a favorite for the Tour of California given his early season form.
andy mac
02-01-2006, 01:13 PM
aren't these guys paid to ride bikes not be interviewed?
seems it's hard to win the interview stakes. you say what you really think, like bode, and you get canned. say nothing, barry bonds, z-miester etc and you get crap.
pretty much the only path you can take is the:
'self-deprecating/false modesty/i have great teammates/just lucky/I love my dog' approach.
people eat that stuff up.
sellsworth
02-01-2006, 01:46 PM
aren't these guys paid to ride bikes not be interviewed?
seems it's hard to win the interview stakes. you say what you really think, like bode, and you get canned. say nothing, barry bonds, z-miester etc and you get crap.
pretty much the only path you can take is the:
'self-deprecating/false modesty/i have great teammates/just lucky/I love my dog' approach.
people eat that stuff up.
I bet that their sponsors would say that part of their job is to interviewed. Kind of like zipping up the jersey when crossing the finish line.
e-RICHIE
02-01-2006, 02:00 PM
I bet that their sponsors would say that part of their job is to interviewed. Kind of like zipping up the jersey when crossing the finish line.
but even lance wasn't a good interview the
first year or two after the return, and he
certainly wasn't in the old days. when and
if Z is front and center like other leaders
are, trust me, the right words will flow out of his
mouth like the manchurian candidate.
thank you atmo. :beer:
ClutchCargo
02-01-2006, 02:22 PM
but even lance wasn't a good interview the
first year or two after the return, and he
certainly wasn't in the old days. when and
if Z is front and center like other leaders
are, trust me, the right words will flow out of his
mouth like the manchurian candidate.
thank you atmo. :beer:
Bjarne has contacted Bode Miller to coach the team on interview skills :D
(although they'll have to get a substitute to teach the "... and this is off the record" class, which Bode apparently never attended himself!)
btw, "atmo" ? ("and that's my opinion"???)
Quote on!
e-RICHIE
02-01-2006, 02:25 PM
btw, "atmo" ? ("and that's my opinion"???)
according to...
Ti Designs
02-01-2006, 11:36 PM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
sellsworth
02-02-2006, 12:21 AM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
I'll step forward to admit that I have not.
The Spider
02-02-2006, 02:56 AM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
give me time :)
e-RICHIE
02-02-2006, 07:24 AM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
you mean as a professional - or for fun?
Fixed
02-02-2006, 07:31 AM
bro it's their job they get paid to do it ,cheers :beer:
manet
02-02-2006, 07:40 AM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
sounds like my father's holiday visits to his in-laws.
loctite
02-02-2006, 07:41 AM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
I went to Rhode Island last year! ;)
Fixed
02-02-2006, 07:44 AM
bro does park city count? cheers :beer:
andy mac
02-02-2006, 01:35 PM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
yep, but not cycling.
Hysbrian
02-02-2006, 01:38 PM
I gotta ask, how many people on this forum have traveled somewhere else with different food and a different schedule and raced against the top riders in the world?
You got a spot I'll take it
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