Any Calfee owners have their bike "upgraded"?

[dhalbrook]

Hi all,

I've loved Calfee frames ever since I saw a LeMond "Bat bike" in a shop window years ago. About 18 months ago I came across a secondhand Tetra Pro in my size and picked it up. It's an older frame (#543) from about 1997 or 1998, with a 1" head tube and Italian BB. The frame is in good structural shape but has some paint nicks.

After finding a used fork (1" EC90SL) I built it up, and I absolutely love the bike. However, with a short torso and arms and long legs, I'm pushing the limits of stack height for a 1" carbon steerer and there are times when the front end lets me know that.

As such, I'm considering having the steerer tube remolded to 1 1/8", which apparently runs about $400, and having the frame "nuded" (another $300). I'm also thinking of having the BB reworked to English ($200). All this work would be way more than I spent for the frame itself, but given that a new TP frame alone is $3200 it seems reasonable... ish.

Anther option would be to find a 1" fork with an aluminum steerer tube and call it a day. It would save $400+ but would add about a half pound over a newer 1 1/8" fork (like an Enve 2.0 for example). However it would definitely solidify the front end.

A third option would be to wait for a newer TP or Dfly in my size to appear used, but that seems easier said than done. I can't tell when Calfee switched to 1 1/8", but fairly late AFAICT, perhaps 2007ish? From a cost/benefit standpoint, however, this would probably be the best option.

Has anyone with a Calfee had their frame reworked in some significant way? Did you feel it was worth it? I'm wondering if it makes sense to throw a big chunk of change at a 15+ year old frame (though I guess I still have 9 years left of warranty :))

[jtakeda]

Spending $1000+ to upgrade a 10+ year old carbon frame would be completely out of the question for me.

You looking at $900 for the repair, whatever shipping is both ways and an enve fork $350? Close to $1500.

For that money you could you can buy the Calfee on eBay with a full record 10 group.

[dhalbrook]

For that money you could you can buy the Calfee on eBay with a full record 10 group.

I wish I could. The one eBay listing you're referencing is a Luna, not a Tetra or Dragonfly, and I'm not certain it has a 1 1/8" head tube. All the rest (of the 54cm) are older Tetras that wouldn't be much different than what I have now.

But yeah, that's what has me nervous about spending the money. I have a lot of faith in Calfee frames (there's a reason it has a 25 year warranty) but it does seem like being patient and waiting for the right used frame to come along would be the best option, or just biting the bullet and using a different fork until it does.

Thanks for the reality check. Part of posting this was to get exactly that kind of feedback.

[buldogge]

My Tetra Pro is an '02 and has a 1 1/8" HT…I paid less than your "upgrades" for the frameset w/ a CK headset…bought right here.

They are out there…in fact there was a '58' on the forum just in the last couple weeks.

If anything, I would get the HT re-work only…fix the HT/junctions paint myself (if that's not included in the $400)…assuring that the HT is long enough extension wise to eliminate spacer use…if you're gonna pay for custom…get custom.

Forget the BB threading and "nuding"…IMHO.

My 2c.

-Mark in St. Louis

[jtakeda]

For that money you could buy some used carbon wheels and a 1 inch fork with an aluminum steer tube.


Heck for that money I could've bought the Kirk that fit me like a glove that sold a few days ago.

[Peter B]

It sounds like you're keen on the Calfee TP. Considering the upgrade cost, and nominal increase in resale, you'll need to recoup your investment in long term use. You know you like Craig's bikes, but this one sounds like a borderline fit for you. Since you'll be in it for the long haul, consider selling this one and putting that money towards the cost of a new custom. You'll spend net somewhat less than twice what you're already considering but will get *your* bike (fit & color) with all current design advances and a full 25 year warranty.

[ahsere]

...and it would only cost you $200:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ritchey-Carbon-Comp-1-Steerer-Road-Fork-700c-43mm-New-/220839402009?pt=US_Forks&hash=item336b0dda19

I find them expensive but given that you are willing to spend all that money I'd simply get one of these and wait until a newer version of the frame comes up for sale. And you could probably sell your current fork for a decent amount if it's in good shape...

[soulspinner]

My Tetra Pro is an '02 and has a 1 1/8" HT…I paid less than your "upgrades" for the frameset w/ a CK headset…bought right here.

They are out there…in fact there was a '58' on the forum just in the last couple weeks.

If anything, I would get the HT re-work only…fix the HT/junctions paint myself (if that's not included in the $400)…assuring that the HT is long enough extension wise to eliminate spacer use…if you're gonna pay for custom…get custom.

Forget the BB threading and "nuding"…IMHO.

My 2c.

-Mark in St. Louis

I thought the exact same thing. The headtube will make all the difference you will perceive on the bike.

[oldpotatoe]

Spending $1000+ to upgrade a 10+ year old carbon frame would be completely out of the question for me.

You looking at $900 for the repair, whatever shipping is both ways and an enve fork $350? Close to $1500.

For that money you could you can buy the Calfee on eBay with a full record 10 group.

What he said. I sold Calfees for a while and altho many are really nice frames, not worth putting $1500+ to a frame worth significantly less than that.

I'd say sell the Calfee, add $1500, find a modern frame...

[bicycletricycle]

Seems a little silly, buy a wound up fork. What for a used frame to come up.

[FlashUNC]

Get a new fork. That's the most cost-effective and time-effective option.

The "upgrade" ain't worth it.

[djdj]

Bikes and bike parts shouldn't be viewed as investments. If it makes YOU happy, do it. :banana:

[bobswire]

Seems a little silly, buy a wound up fork. What for a used frame to come up.

What he said. http://www.bikemania.biz/forks/wound-up-steel-steerer-carbon-road-fork/

[happycampyer]

Get a new fork. That's the most cost-effective and time-effective option.

The "upgrade" ain't worth it.I agree with this (and with the others saying basically the same thing). While it would be nice to have an English-threaded bottom bracket, and Italian threaded one is not the end of the world—there are bikes still being built with them, so it's not like you can't get parts, etc.

The difference between a 1" steerer and a 1-1/8" steerer is not huge, especially if you get the right fork. The older Easton forks are known to be on the flexier side. The Ritchey is cost effective and probably an improvement over the Easton, but there are better options imo if you are willing to spend the money (which you seem to be, and the marginal cost of a better fork is still less that the cost of the repairs).

I'm not familiar with Calfee's forks, but does he still offer 1" forks? That would be worth exploring. Otherwise, if you can find one, the best riding 1" fork imo is a Serotta F3/S3 (it sounds like you would want one with 8.5 stiffness). wooly had a barely used one for sale recently in the classifieds, and I think he mentioned that Bill Holland or someone had some. The next best option imo is a Seven fork. You can order them through Seven dealers—pricey, but an excellent fork, and a lot less than the cost of the repair + new fork. I know of a dealer that might have one in inventory—pm me for details if you are interested. The next-next best option (again purely imo) is a Wound-Up (as bicycletricycle previously mentioned). If you get an all-black version, it would probably look fine with the Calfee lugs, and the tubing of the frame is probably not so oversized as to make the tubes on the fork look undersized. A used Ouzo Pro would also be a decent choice if you were willing to take a chance on a used fork.

Anyway, with the right fork, I think you would be perfectly happy with the frame and, if at some point you sold the bike for a newer one that suits you better, you would lose less on the fork upon resale with the frame than you would on the cost of the new headtube + new fork option.

Anyway, just a few more thoughts.

[happycampyer]

Bikes and bike parts shouldn't be viewed as investments. If it makes YOU happy, do it. :banana:Btw, I don't disagree with this sentiment. I recently had a couple of frames refinished by Saratoga Fabrications, and I know that I would not recoup the cost of the refinishing if I turned around and sold the frames. I did it because I like the frames, wanted to keep them, but wanted to change their finish. "Worth it" is obviously relative.

[Don49]

I have a Tetra Pro of the same vintage as yours, Italian BB, 1" HT, probably 1997, purchased used with Campy Record.

I love this bike but I personally would not spend any money on frame upgrades. Better to wait for another used Calfee to come along in your size.

Big drawback of the early models like ours (with Italian BB) is the chain stay clearance to the chainrings. Campy external BB's and maybe all external BB's will not work with this frame.

[n_maher]

My 2¢, ride what you have until you find what you're looking for. Don't invest to the level you're talking when odds are very good that with a little patience you can find nearly exactly what you're after for the same $$ in a newer frame. I paid less, shipped, for my ~'05 Tetra Pro with full DuraAce and barely ridden condition. Is that a rare deal, yes, and exactly why I hopped on it despite the timing being bad. I've watched these bikes on Ebay long enough to know that decent deals are common and that great deals do show up with some regularity.

[EPOJoe]

Also have an earlier Tetra with the Italian BB. I wouldn't (and don't) worry about the Italian BB thing. I'd be in the camp that's suggesting trying a different fork. I've got a pretty good stack height on mine, although an angled stem helps to make it not "too" crazy. I'm running the original 1" carbon steerer fork that Calfee sold with the bike, and I've never noticed any flex at all. I'm not sure who made the fork, but I'll post a photo below in case someone else does.

[bfd]

I have a Tetra Pro of the same vintage as yours, Italian BB, 1" HT, probably 1997, purchased used with Campy Record.

I love this bike but I personally would not spend any money on frame upgrades. Better to wait for another used Calfee to come along in your size.

Big drawback of the early models like ours (with Italian BB) is the chain stay clearance to the chainrings. Campy external BB's and maybe all external BB's will not work with this frame.

Agree! I have a 1994 Tetra Custom that I bought used in 1997. It has a 1" HT and italian bb. I had a very nice sweet wings crankset on it and used a small 2mm spacers to pulled the crank out just enough to clear the right/drive side chainstay. However, when my sweet wing crank broke, I tried to put on a newer Chorus crank with external bb and couldn't get enough clearance to make it work. The inner chainring would rub the chainstay. I tried putting in the same spacer and that didn't work either. Finally gave up and am now using a square taper bb. :(

As for a new fork, have you tried the 1" Columbus Minimal fork? I have one on my 90s Litespeed Classic and love it! At about 325g it is fairly light, stiff (no flex under my 195lb+ weight!) and reasonably priced at $220 (UK retailer; $300 from LBS), its a bargain. I use 40mm of spacers and have a serotta heads up on my litespeed to get the bars up. Something to consider. Good Luck! :banana::eek::butt::hello:

[dhalbrook]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. It's truly useful and this forum (I'm new here) makes for a great sounding board.

Based on the responses and my original gut feel, I'm going to try a different 1" fork for now (probably the Ritchey given the stack height issue, though the Columbus looks great too), and plan to either get a newer frame if one in my size presents itself or bite the bullet and go custom. Really I need a 56 with the 54 top tube, but that doesn't exist off the rack.

This year will (hopefully) be my first year racing again after a 20 year hiatus so if I do well maybe I can justify a new frameset at the end of the season :)

[dhalbrook]

My 2¢, ride what you have until you find what you're looking for. Don't invest to the level you're talking when odds are very good that with a little patience you can find nearly exactly what you're after for the same $$ in a newer frame. I paid less, shipped, for my ~'05 Tetra Pro with full DuraAce and barely ridden condition. Is that a rare deal, yes, and exactly why I hopped on it despite the timing being bad. I've watched these bikes on Ebay long enough to know that decent deals are common and that great deals do show up with some regularity.

I have to confess I'm still kicking myself for not buying a local Dragonfly frameset (pretty sure the steerer was 1 1/8") for $1000 because I wasn't sure I wanted to get back into road racing and the steerer was cut way too short. Hindsight is definitely 20/20.

[dhalbrook]

Sorry, another question for the Tetra owners. What is the rake of your fork? I've been running a 43mm but I'm wondering if a 45mm would make things slightly less nervous in the front end.

[rnhood]

Sorry, another question for the Tetra owners. What is the rake of your fork? I've been running a 43mm but I'm wondering if a 45mm would make things slightly less nervous in the front end.

Increasing fork rake will reduce trail, thereby rendering a more nervous front end (I think). So going to a 45 is probably not the right move. On my Tetra, which was a 62cm and always a little big for me the 90 and 100 mm stems (100 to a lesser extent) gave the bike a slightly more nervous feel to steering. A 110 or 120 stem helped provide a greater arc thus a less nervous feel. If you're running a short stem (90mm in particular) you should be able to tame the steering feel by moving to a 110 or 120 stem. Of course this may not be practical given your proper fit.

I guess you could always go to a fork with less rake but, consulting Calfee is highly recommended on this. In fact that is probably the best path forward.

[pdmtong]

I had a '99 Luna S/N in the 200s or so. It was english with a 1" AME fork.

From your post you appreciate the calfee aesthetic. It is virtually unchanged since inception and carries over today into the manta lineup.

That said, carbon has come a looooong way to what is offered today. I am talking about ride quality not the PF30 44mm inset or swoopy tubes.

Calfee didnt always hit home runs. the first DFlys had mfg issues. That and constantly uncertain deliver times caused my LBS to drop them (note we are 30 miles from the factory)

If this was my frame I would get a new fork and a +17d stem to make my fit work. Then I would ride it - a lot. At the same time start saving money for a custom for you TP or cross fingers to stumble upon a used one.

[NateM]

I faced a similar choice some yrs back (08).I needed a simple repair on a fracture in seat tube and decided on a complete strip and repaint.They offered the new head tube and fix for the BB,instead I opted for a new fork (True Temper 1"GS10) Total cost was around 1K. I use a heads up extender which gives me 2cm more head tube.The steerer on the fork is 235mm. The crank is a FSA SLK with a DA Italian outboard bearing which has a 1mm spacer on drive side. I have about 2mm clearance on the 34 tooth chainring,tight but no problem.I would suggest that you do the same,look for a 1" Serotta F3 or S3,True Temper GS10,if going with carbon steerer.They will be hard to find but worth it if you do.I have a 1" Alpha Q with 229mm steerer,plug installed (glued) if you have any interest.PM me if you have questions on modifications.Nate Merrill

[dhalbrook]

=I have a 1" Alpha Q with 229mm steerer,plug installed (glued) if you have any interest.

Thanks! Let me check my current steerer length to see if that might work.

[dhalbrook]

Just wanted to give an update. In case anyone is looking for the elusive Serotta "heads-up", Ti Cycles seems to be making them in, of course, titanium. Cost is $80. I ordered one from them and will be using it to increase my headtube and decrease my stack height. In addition, NateM has graciously offered me his old fork to try out. So, if his fork ends up working out, I'll find a new home for the 1" EC90SL, ride the hell out of my old Tetra Pro, and start a little rainy day fund for some custom frame to be built in the future.

[dhalbrook]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/15/ybype2u7.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/15/hyjubyra.jpg

Got my heads up last night. Beautiful machining.

Now if I could find someone who wants to trade a silver 1" King headset for a black one..,,



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bewheels]

Making sure I understand the purpose of the 'heads up'...rather than having spacers on top of the headset this creates a "spacer" below the headset. I assume this is primarily an aesthetic thing.

[DfCas]

Note that you may not need a full custom to get the geometry you want in the future. Calfee offers seat tube and headtube extensions at a modest upcharge on stock geometry. You could then get a 54 with a taller seat or head tube with the correct height for you.

[dhalbrook]

Making sure I understand the purpose of the 'heads up'...rather than having spacers on top of the headset this creates a "spacer" below the headset. I assume this is primarily an aesthetic thing.

A head tube (even with an extender) is far more stout and less flexy than a 1" carbon steerer. I currently have 40mm of spacers, whereas no more than 20 is generally recommended for 1" carbon steerers. The hope is to alleviate that problem without spending the cash for a new head tube (plus a repaint).

[dhalbrook]

Note that you may not need a full custom to get the geometry you want in the future. Calfee offers seat tube and headtube extensions at a modest upcharge on stock geometry. You could then get a 54 with a taller seat or head tube with the correct height for you.

Yes, a stock 54 with an extended head tube would probably fit pretty well given my current setup. OTOH, once you're spending 3k+ for a frame, an extra $500 for custom geometry seems par for the course, and given my shortish torso, might make sense. If nothing else I wouldn't end up with quite as much seatpost showing. At some point in the near future I'm going to spend a little money with a bike fitter and get their opinion. It's something I've never done -- I've always just gone by feel -- but it seems like it might be eye opening.

[Pete Mckeon]

:help:http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/15/ybype2u7.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/15/hyjubyra.jpg

Got my heads up last night. Beautiful machining.

Now if I could find someone who wants to trade a silver 1" King headset for a black one..,,



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wakatel_Luum]

Big drawback of the early models like ours (with Italian BB) is the chain stay clearance to the chainrings. Campy external BB's and maybe all external BB's will not work with this frame.

Pardon my ignorance but I thought there wouldn't be much difference between a square taper and external bottom bracket? I thought Campagnolo kept things such as Q factor and chainring position the same through the later models?

If anything I can see the chainrings getting a little thinner going from 8, 9, 10 to 11 speed? I would have thought with the chainrings getting thinner there would be more clearance unless they were moved inwards (chain line) throughout the later generations?

I have a Calfee Tetra Pro that needs a repaint but I'm having second thoughts now as previously I used a square taper BB on it...

[bfd]

Pardon my ignorance but I thought there wouldn't be much difference between a square taper and external bottom bracket? I thought Campagnolo kept things such as Q factor and chainring position the same through the later models?

If anything I can see the chainrings getting a little thinner going from 8, 9, 10 to 11 speed? I would have thought with the chainrings getting thinner there would be more clearance unless they were moved inwards (chain line) throughout the later generations?

I have a Calfee Tetra Pro that needs a repaint but I'm having second thoughts now as previously I used a square taper BB on it...

I have an older Calfee tetra (actually mine was originally labeled a "Carbonframes" before it was repainted) and tried to put in a Campy external BB. The problem - right/drive-side chainstay is too wide. You can mount the external bb with no problem. But when you install the crankarm, the inner chainring, I was installing a compact with a 34t inner ring, would hit the wide chainstay. I tried to put in a 2mm spacer on the right bb cup to bring out the chainring, but then the crank would bind as it is not designed to accomodate the extra width.

Now, there is a fix. If you're sending your frame in for a repaint, you could ask Calfee to shave down the right chainstay. I asked about a year or so ago and at that time they quoted me about $80 to do it. Not too bad. However, they said it would probably need a repaint and I was quoted $400. They may also ask you to send in the crank you're planning on using to make sure it clears the chainstay.

My Calfee rides great and I haven't had any problems with my square taper bb, other than its really long and heavy compared to the latest stuff. Still, I enjoy riding it and its my go-fast bike for any ride over 40 miles!
Good Luck!

[dhalbrook]

Now, there is a fix. If you're sending your frame in for a repaint, you could ask Calfee to shave down the right chainstay. I asked about a year or so ago and at that time they quoted me about $80 to do it. Not too bad. However, they said it would probably need a repaint and I was quoted $400. They may also ask you to send in the crank you're planning on using to make sure it clears the chainstay.

Prices may have gone up a bit. These are from various emails with Calfee:

.. we can remold the HT on that frame ($400) to 1 1/8". We can also replace the BB with an English threaded ($200).

Nude'ing is a pain in the butt, runs $325 for frame and fork.

Typically, we need to strip the frame if going to a translucent or clear coat, which is $250. Clear coat is then $225, including the stock set of Calfee decals.

[Germany_chris]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHINY-Calfee-Tetra-Pro-Carbon-56cm-NR-Dragonfly-Luna-Madone-Serotta-Parlee-/171256343428?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item27dfac6b84

[bfd]

Prices may have gone up a bit. These are from various emails with Calfee:

[ we can remold the HT on that frame ($400) to 1 1/8". We can also replace the BB with an English threaded ($200)]

This is a bit different. What I was referring to was retaining the italian threaded bb, but having the right chainstay shaved down to accomodate the chainring. I was quoted $80.

[Nude'ing is a pain in the butt, runs $325 for frame and fork]

[Typically, we need to strip the frame if going to a translucent or clear coat, which is $250. Clear coat is then $225, including the stock set of Calfee decals.]

So making a frameset nude is $325. If you want a new clear coat its $250 for stripping and $225 for the clear coat for a total of $475! OK, that's more than the $400 I was quoted. Good Luck! :banana::eek::butt::bike:

[bobswire]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHINY-Calfee-Tetra-Pro-Carbon-56cm-NR-Dragonfly-Luna-Madone-Serotta-Parlee-/171256343428?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item27dfac6b84

I saw that one. This is the last frame on my bucket list I've yet to try. So I'm keeping my eyes open for a 54cm top tube Calfee at a bargain price point.
I've seen them go for as low as $450. In fact one listed at this site last year for around $700 I believe. I would love to find one for about $400 without fork and update fork for even better ride.

[dhalbrook]

I'm not going to do any of those things i got quotes for, I was merely sharing the results of my inquiries.

Since this thread started I got a heads-up from Ti Cycles, which I've installed along with a different Calfee-branded fork provided kindly by another forum member. My effective head tube is now 20mm taller but now I have 20mm less stack height. I tried it out yesterday and it feels far more solid.

This will be my first season racing in over 20 years, so if it goes well I may treat myself to a newer Tetra or Dragonfly, but for the moment I'll be contented with my franken-Tetra. Pictures coming soon.

[dhalbrook]

I saw that one. This is the last frame on my bucket list I've yet to try. So I'm keeping my eyes open for a 54cm top tube Calfee at a bargain price point.
I've seen them go for as low as $450. In fact one listed at this site last year for around $700 I believe. I would love to find one for about $400 without fork and update fork for even better ride.

I won mine a few years back for just over $400 so it's totally possible, but it's a rather old Tetra (#543) with a 1" headtube. If you came across a newer model with 1 1/8" HT I'd probably be bidding against you :)

[Wakatel_Luum]

Well after doing nothing for so long I started rubbing my Calfee Tetra-Pro down tonight...I started on the chainstay with 400 grit where there was a minor gouge from a chainring...this is going to take ages...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/27/bytupygu.jpg

[weisan]

Aesthetic sensibilities out the window, and adopting a more pragmatic approach. There are two workable solutions other than the ones already mentioned.

1) http://www.wigglestatic.com/images/bbb-bhp-22-med.jpg?w=430&h=430&a=7

2) http://www.treefortbikes.com/images/raw/TF-SM4945-3.jpg

Carbon steerer poses zero problem.

[dhalbrook]

Thanks, but I already found my solution in the heads-up.

[Wakatel_Luum]

Almost finished rubbing back both seat & chain stays today...

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/4da491f0f66580daf7ed830c99c3171d.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/33c00eb000902688e2e83a626dc30057.jpg

[Muffin Man]

Wow you've been working on this for 4 months now? You are much more patient than I am.

[foo_fighter]

Carbolift is probably better and easier(maybe even safer) than sanding.

Almost finished rubbing back both seat & chain stays today...

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/4da491f0f66580daf7ed830c99c3171d.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/33c00eb000902688e2e83a626dc30057.jpg

[Wakatel_Luum]

I haven't done anything for a while just started again yesterday...my understanding is carbolift does not work very well and is hard to find in a Australia .