Fave Trainer so far... Wahoo's KICKR

[Charles M]

The review is here: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/page/latest-news/?id=118846


http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13-wahoo-kickr-10.jpg


Really good stuff.

[MattTuck]

For the price, I'd hope so.

[wallymann]

For the price, I'd hope so.

it's less a trainer and more an ergometer -- like, say, a computrainer which is similarly priced.

[christian]

Seems like a good deal to me. It's like a trainer, a powermeter, and an ipad integration tool, all for the price of a powermeter.

[Ti Designs]

There's really very little to like about any trainer - they are torture devices which suck your will to live out your eye sockets. This coming from someone who spends a lot of time on them...

At first they were a way to train when you couldn't otherwise. They used small fans that made noise which caused arguments and divorces. Then came the magnetic trainer. Quieter, but about as entertaining as watching paint dry while sitting on a bike seat. The resistance was linear, so people complained. People also complained about the color - in the winter people will complain about anything... Then someone came up with the concept of the fluid trainer - build a housing around a wind trainer, fill it with oil, set it up in front of the TV and it's just like riding your bike! WRONG. And yet that line has been recycled more than all the plastic milk bottles in the whole world. Computrainer lets you ride on roads, against your friends or some silver guy - has anyone ever mistaken this for riding on the road??? Now there are app based trainers, so people can spend more time looking at their phones. What happens when people start thinking of this as riding a bike?

I've been trying to work with a couple of spin studios to get my riders on spin bikes for indoor practice of climbing out of the saddle. In doing so I've had more than a few discussions of the differences between indoor and outdoor cycling. Now when I grew up and started riding (that first part is disputable) there were trees and big hills and lakes, and friends out riding - it was fun. I'm meeting lots of people who are turned off by the transition from indoor cycling to riding outdoors. It's harder, sometimes it's cold, others it's hot. When it gets hard you can't just turn the red knob...


My suggestion is to get a cheap trainer, learn to hate it, use it for what it's good at, get back on the road fit, and love riding your bike.

[MattTuck]

I understand it has some additional functionality, which may be worth it to you, especially if you're riding at a high level.

But with a price of $1100, I'd be hard-pressed to choose it over a set of Kreitler rollers, a cyclops fluid trainer AND a new pair of Rapha shorts...

[Lewis Moon]

There's really very little to like about any trainer - they are torture devices which suck your will to live out your eye sockets. This coming from someone who spends a lot of time on them...

My suggestion is to get a cheap trainer, learn to hate it, use it for what it's good at, get back on the road fit, and love riding your bike.

Exactly. Too cold? Put on more layers. Too hot? Ride at 4AM or after the sun goes down. Too sloppy? Ride yer mountain/cross/rain bike. No daylight? Get a light.
There is NO substitution for riding outside.

...Jeebus...I just saw that you were in AZ.

[don'TreadOnMe]

Tell you what, I'm thinking about how to come up w/funds (wife non-angering fundage) to pick one of these up.

I had a computrainer years ago, it was the balls. Sold it for a Teesdale single speed. Broke the single speed (ever seen ripped Zona tubing?), wish I still had the computrainer.

I've got a KK, eh, it's alright. I ride the rollers more, for sure.
But riding outside is easier said than done for me...and I love riding more than anything outside of my fam.

So yeah, I want a kickr. Maybe they'll get less $$$ as the weather gets nicer.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Exactly. Too cold? Put on more layers. Too hot? Ride at 4AM or after the sun goes down. Too sloppy? Ride yer mountain/cross/rain bike. No daylight? Get a light.
There is NO substitution for riding outside.


You live in Arizona. I call BS. ;) I don't own a MTB, but I do have a family to support. Riding outside in some of the weather we've been having is pretty risky. I'd feel like a dick if I hurt myself and was out of work due to trying to ride in the slush, muck and cold when I could have opted for the trainer in the basement. No one pays me to ride. I'd rather be outside, but I calculate risk a little different than I did when I was 20.

That's a pretty nice looking trainer, but I don't use any sort of device that tells me how much power I put out, et cetera, so the KK Road Machine I bought recently is good enough for me.

[Charles M]

Nothing replaces outside... But then that's not really relative anyway.

Beyond the power measuring, using some of the video routes from kinomap is pretty great at breaking up the work... Riding the Gavia, rolling down the PCH, the entertainment value is there with this as well...

There are more than a few other trainers at this type of price point that don't do all the things that this does on the software side. Mix in the quality of the hardware and the resistance unit function and the list of competitors shrinks again... Then when you do roll outside, the competitors that also still have things like Wireless cadence / speed / gps compatibility (with an I phone) and can also link up with other power meters and I don't know of anything that is still competitive...

[11.4]

Whoa! Tough audience here.

I've gotten one, to go along with a KK, Kreitler rollers, and TruTrainer rollers. And an old Computrainer.

There's a point, true, where you ideally should just get out on an old winter cross beater bike and ride through snow or rain or dark, whatever your location deals up for you. There are plenty of us who have to work long hours and have to deal with weather, and for us, a trainer is simply part of the equation. For me, principally track oriented, a good trainer is actually an important part of training and a good one is really helpful.

To everyone their own. If you do need a trainer and you can appreciate that something better at least makes you more receptive to indoor training, this is definitely there. It's a lot more compact than a lot of trainers, easy to set up, and has better data and entertainment capabilities than anything else in the market. If you just like to ride a basic trainer, sweat, and swear, this isn't for you. If you are motivated to work harder, it is.

This ranks up with TruTrainer rollers as a much better thought out, featured, and manufactured product than the competition. Some people just don't like that kind of thing, but if you do and you train more because of it, Wahoo has a winner here.

[oldguy00]

I bought a kickr a few months ago. Best cycling purchase I've made in 20 years.
Throw it in erg mode and use with TrainerRoad....killer workouts that you don't even have to think about.
Yeah, outside is better...OK...well, not for everyone. I'm busy with kids, and I don't want to ride outside at 10PM or 4AM. Especially not on the east coast of Canada with our lovely winters. And besides, I'm getting better workouts on the Kickr than I typically do outside. I, like a lot of folks, am not so great at pushing myself as hard as i should....the kickr + TR takes care of that.

Like the Computrainer, its pricey for a trainer, but should be no problem for all you folks with 5k Serotta/Pina/Nago/Custom frames, 1k-3k carbon wheels, full Assos gear, etc. And this trainer will actually improve your riding more than any of those high price bike parts.

[MattTuck]

it's less a trainer and more an ergometer -- like, say, a computrainer which is similarly priced.

Whoa! Tough audience here.



Upon reading my original comment, I see that my comment may have come across as a dick response. Apologies. That was not my intention.

I read Charles' entire review, and appreciated the detail. I especially homed in on the part where he says he was able to get rid of three trainers. This Kickr product is firmly positioned in the high price:high benefit part of the market. Nothing wrong with that, and you'd expect good quality from something for this price. Is it better than my Fluid trainer? I believe it is by a lot. Is it better than other computrainer type products? I don't have a lot of experience, but I trust Charles' review that it is. If I were riding 10+ hours indoors a week, I might say that my marginal cycling dollar should go to something like this, and if I were buying a trainer for the first time, maybe I'd think about it. But for someone that is riding 5 hours indoors and is OK with a fluid trainer and drills from books, it is a big ask to shell out $1100.

So, that has very little to do with the product and more to do with a personal decision about what is valuable to me.

[malcolm]

computrainer with erg video is hard to beat for stationary

[oldguy00]

......
So, that has very little to do with the product and more to do with a personal decision about what is valuable to me.

Agree, different strokes.....
A lot of folks would say that shelling out $$$ for Rapha clothing is a waste when you can get perfectly good shorts etc for half the price or less.
:)

[oldguy00]

computrainer with erg video is hard to beat for stationary

I've owned a computrainer in the past. I think they are a good product, and I think the Racermate company has always offered great product support. But I agree with all of Charle's comments about it (pretty sure his trainer #3 he referenced was a Computrainer).......they can be a pain to use given the warm up and spindown required, dated interface, etc.

[malcolm]

I've owned a computrainer in the past. I think they are a good product, and I think the Racermate company has always offered great product support. But I agree with all of Charle's comments about it (pretty sure his trainer #3 he referenced was a Computrainer).......they can be a pain to use given the warm up and spindown required, dated interface, etc.

computrainer is great by itself, most realistic feel I've ever encountered. Add erg video and it's even better.

[Charles M]

Computrainer was T3 in the review... I gave my unit to the guys at Cyclologic because they use that unit in the Purely Custom fit bikes (and they may need a spare for their in-house stuff). It's a SOLID tool without a doubt. The Computrainer has been my go-to rig for programmed interval stuff and for some competitive / entertaining harder workouts.


But the CT flywheel weighs a fraction of the Wahoo. Wahoo's road-like feel is much better. And the CT software package just isn't a rival for Wahoo's multiple partners like Kenomap and Trainer Road and their Segments program is just nuts (especially for Strava fans)...


That's not to say it's at all bad. It's not. I wouldn't trash my computrainer if I owned one and it was properly functioning, but it's just not got the feel or updated features... If I needed something new, I would be buying Wahoo.

Beyond Road feel and function, the Wahoo also sets up in a fraction of the time (in the case you don't have a dedicated bike that just sits plugged in). That's also not a big deal, but things start adding up... Like no tire wear...


I think Cyclops has some competitive things. But I really think this unit, relative to its place/cost is a solid combination that's tough to beat.



As for riding outside, like I said, that's just not relative to the conversation...

[malcolm]

Computrainer was T3 in the review... I gave my unit to the guys at Cyclologic because they use that unit in the Purely Custom fit bikes (and they may need a spare for their in-house stuff). It's a SOLID tool without a doubt. The Computrainer has been my go-to rig for programmed interval stuff and for some competitive / entertaining harder workouts.


But the CT flywheel weighs a fraction of the Wahoo. Wahoo's road-like feel is much better. And the CT software package just isn't a rival for Wahoo's multiple partners like Kenomap and Trainer Road and their Segments program is just nuts (especially for Strava fans)...


That's not to say it's at all bad. It's not. I wouldn't trash my computrainer if I owned one and it was properly functioning, but it's just not got the feel or updated features... If I needed something new, I would be buying Wahoo.

Beyond Road feel and function, the Wahoo also sets up in a fraction of the time (in the case you don't have a dedicated bike that just sits plugged in). That's also not a big deal, but things start adding up... Like no tire wear...


I think Cyclops has some competitive things. But I really think this unit, relative to its place/cost is a solid combination that's tough to beat.



As for riding outside, like I said, that's just not relative to the conversation...

I've always been amazed that computrainer got such a good road feel out of that dinky flywheel. If you think this one has better road feel I would like to try it, but my ancient computrainer doesn't seem willing to die anytime soon.

[gavingould]

i'd really like to get one of these KICKRs but already training this winter at a place with Computrainers in a group setting.

re: Cycleops, I have a buddy who picked up a PowerBeam Pro and unfortunately had nothing but problems with it. it would connect to his Garmin or computer(s) with ANT+ dongle but gave no power readings. After 2 replacements and numerous hours with Cycleops support, nothing they did could get it working. very disappointing.

[1centaur]

I agree that CT plus Ergvideos is pretty great and have never regretted road feel. One of the keys to me is getting the video in pretty large format on a screen I have on a swing arm in front of my handlebars. That screen is attached to a PC. So my question to Charles, or those that have a KIKR, is what is the means to get those app-based videos on to a PC monitor?

[Charles M]

Some of the apps are PC compatible. There's something like a dozen, so you'll have to check around by program, but there are available set ups for that.

[Climb01742]

Anything that makes going down into the basement on a day like this, with a foot of snow falling, is useful and valuable. The 'oh toughen up' routine isn't always enough.

[oldguy00]

I agree that CT plus Ergvideos is pretty great and have never regretted road feel. One of the keys to me is getting the video in pretty large format on a screen I have on a swing arm in front of my handlebars. That screen is attached to a PC. So my question to Charles, or those that have a KIKR, is what is the means to get those app-based videos on to a PC monitor?

I haven't taken the time to look at the different available apps, but the one I use, TrainerRoad, works great with a Windows PC. I watch it on my laptop, but could easily put my laptop display out to my TV via an HDMI cable.
My typical setup now is to have TR running on my laptop beside me, controlling my workout, with a movie or Xbox on my TV in front of me.

[Charles M]

I almost bought a recumbent trainer so I could play games while pedaling... And it's nice to work the front neck muscles etc to counter the load we keep putting in on the road...:)

[dekindy]

My buddy purchased from a retailer and had to exchange his initial defective unit. Only hiccup since then is that after 2 months use in his finished basement(clean and dry) the data signal quit working. He had no difficulty contacting customer service and their initial response was that they would send him a new sensor. The customer service discussed it with an engineer and called back to instruct my buddy to remove the cover and check for dust on the sensor. He did this and it is working normally again. If I remember correctly the attempted remedy for his initial unit was to realign the sensor which did not work. Overall he is very satisfied and would purchased again but thought it was odd that any maintenance would be required since it is a sealed unit and he uses it in a very clean environment.

[Tom]

I killed an old cheap Performance trainer after a number of years - bearings wore out.

I just dropped about $650 on a BKool, not direct drive like the Kickr but no fiddling with PC compatibility or anything. I notice that BKool has produced an app that allows Kickr users to work with BKool's online interface just recently.

I'll let you know how I like it. I spend 10+ hours a week on the trainer in the winter and hopefully I'm past the Stamstad method with this thing.

[Bkat]

I'm never opposed to spending money on myself:rolleyes: but I dislike riding indoors and spending that much on an indoor trainer would make me loath it even more.