Just a question Re: Touring Bikes

[Nooch]

Why do touring bikes typically have canti's or mini-v's as opposed to long reach brakes..

(thought process: going back to the idea of what I want out of my next bike, i'm thinking something like a strada bianca, but with rack mounts. not a full on touring bike, but something to make life a little easier while commuting, but still being a spirited ride, especially so when the rack comes off... but I like the TRP long reach brakes and think they'd be up for the job just fine...)

[oldpotatoe]

Why do touring bikes typically have canti's or mini-v's as opposed to long reach brakes..

(thought process: going back to the idea of what I want out of my next bike, i'm thinking something like a strada bianca, but with rack mounts. not a full on touring bike, but something to make life a little easier while commuting, but still being a spirited ride, especially so when the rack comes off... but I like the TRP long reach brakes and think they'd be up for the job just fine...)

One word, bigger tires and real fenders. If you are going to tour or cummute, ya pretty much need fenders. Long reach brakes and fenders work but are limited by tire size.

[Ahneida Ride]

Needed to accommodate the height (and width) of larger tires.

Typical side pulls lack the clearance for touring tires.

[christian]

Prior to dual-pivot medium-reach side-pulls, longer side-pulls were not very strong and required a bit of hand strength. Additionally, 47-57mm sidepulls are limited to 28mm tires + fenders.

If you are happy with that tire size - i.e. no loaded touring off road - then no reason not to go with 47-57 mm sidepulls for a light tourer.

[eddief]

but my funky old Cannondale mountain bike grocery getter had original Shimano cantis with broken plastic parts that needed an upgrade.

I was pleasantly surprised with the decent quality and ease of install of the Tektro CR720 model. Even the replacable shoes are a good feature. And the pads actually work and don't seem to need immediate replacement.

A nice brake.

http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_products/01_prodetail.php?pid=5&sortname=Brake&sort=1&fid=2

[Nooch]

Prior to dual-pivot medium-reach side-pulls, longer side-pulls were not very strong and required a bit of hand strength. Additionally, 47-57mm sidepulls are limited to 28mm tires + fenders.

If you are happy with that tire size - i.e. no loaded touring off road - then no reason not to go with 47-57 mm sidepulls for a light tourer.

my thinking is at my height (5'6") anything larger than a 28 starts to feel 'truckish' (like that time I threw those 45's on my cx bike, thing just started to get uncomfortable, and throwing a leg over was even a pita -- looked bada$$ though). If I wanted to go bigger I supposed I'd go with a 650b wheel -- but again, don't see myself going off road anytime soon..

some of my friends have tossed around the disc idea -- and while i think it could be great from a versatility standpoint, it's a bigger investment and i'm not totally convinced..

[Ken Robb]

For the kind of riding you mention many of Rivendell's production bikes would work as they typically accommodate at least 700x28 tires with fenders. Rambouillet, Romulus, Hilsen, to name a few. One of their 650B bikes would also be good in your size.

[cat6]

my thinking is at my height (5'6") anything larger than a 28 starts to feel 'truckish'

worth a read.

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/01/01/tires-how-wide-is-too-wide/

[pinkshogun]

my buddy tours on a Riv. Saluki with fenders, 40mm wide 650b Hetres using side pull Tektro 559 extra long reach brakes...and braking is good

i should ad that the bike is 55cm frame and he is a short-legged 5'7' guy

[oldpotatoe]

my buddy tours on a Riv. Saluki with fenders, 40mm wide 650b Hetres using side pull Tektro 559 extra long reach brakes...and braking is good

i should ad that the bike is 55cm frame and he is a short-legged 5'7' guy

Gotta ask, he does unsupported, loaded touring?

And does he carry spare tires? If yes and no, I would think cutting/killing a tire would be an issue. Even here in the republic, nobody but one has 650b road tires, and he's closed all the time.

[raygunner]

So I'm having a new touring bike made & the big decision (well, one of many!) is cantis versus disc brakes?

I've never had disc brakes on a bike as of yet but I'm still hesitant. Any suggestions?

[christian]

If you can spring for Ultegra Di2 hydraulic disk, then absolutely 100% go for that. Cool stuff.

Else, mini-Vs. Is this your Ryan?

[oldpotatoe]

my buddy tours on a Riv. Saluki with fenders, 40mm wide 650b Hetres using side pull Tektro 559 extra long reach brakes...and braking is good

i should ad that the bike is 55cm frame and he is a short-legged 5'7' guy

So I'm having a new touring bike made & the big decision (well, one of many!) is cantis versus disc brakes?

I've never had disc brakes on a bike as of yet but I'm still hesitant. Any suggestions?

IMHO, remember the advantages of discs. Good braking in wet, crappy weather and still have brakes if you wack a rim.

Both very possible when touring.

And for right above.....Di2/wet discs on a tour rig? Not my first choice, or 3rd or 8th, choice.

Not for a gravel/commuter either. Far less $ to do the same thing.

[pinkshogun]

my Saluki riding buddy does fully loaded tours...4 panniers, rack bag and handlebar bag. the bike is slightly overbuilt so it handles the weight well

he does carry a spare 650b folding Hetre tire though he has never flatted in over 500 miles of gravel/dirt on the 'fragile' Hetres

[christian]

And for right above.....Di2/wet discs on a tour rig? Not my first choice, or 3rd or 8th, choice.Modern stuff just doesn't break. If you buy good stuff, you basically don't have to worry about it any more. And BB7s are a really bleh option. I admit, it's sort of "crazy" but I actually think it's the preferred option if you want disk brakes.

[cat6]

i took delivery of my custom touring bike in october. i built it with bar ends shifting friction and paul touring cantis. why? coz they work. time tested, proven, reliable, and most importantly(for me)...easily serviceable.

some of these state of the art adventure/touring bikes look really killer and all the modern equipment is drool worthy. any major advantages to justify the cost or complexity on a slow rolling touring bike tho? none for me.

[Bradford]

Modern stuff just doesn't break. If you buy good stuff, you basically don't have to worry about it any more. And BB7s are a really bleh option. I admit, it's sort of "crazy" but I actually think it's the preferred option if you want disk brakes.

Everything breaks on a touring bike eventually. Worse than that, stuff on a touring bike only breaks when you are really far from a good bike shop.

Rule number one for touring is to buy simple, strong stuff that wont' break. Rule number two is to know how to fix it when it does.

[gdw]

"Modern stuff just doesn't break. If you buy good stuff, you basically don't have to worry about it any more. And BB7s are a really bleh option. I admit, it's sort of "crazy" but I actually think it's the preferred option if you want disk brakes. "

This thread over at bikepacking.net is enlightening if you feel that modern stuff especially wet disks are the best choice for touring or multiday trips.

http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,1900.0.html

There are no wet disks listed... just BB7s.

Quite a few of the people posting on that thread ride more hours in a day on their trips than the average member of this forum logs in a week. They also log most of that mileage in the backcountry where there are no bikeshops, sag wagons, or reliable cellphone coverage.

[christian]

I'm sorry, but that list doesn't hold much water; some samples of "equipment that works":

Stans ZTR Flow Rim (!)
Avid hydros (!?)

Obviously, anyone who has used SRAM hydraulic brakes knows that they don't actually work particularly well out of the box!

The fact of the matter is, modern stuff fails amazingly rarely. I wouldn't use Di2 on a touring bike because it doesn't have a triple, but I'd pop for XT hydros any day of the week on a mtb-tourer.

[Nooch]

So.. I guess the question is, and perhaps not pertinent to my argument since i'm looking more at a rear rack for commuting and not real touring, is what do most people tour on? Is a 28mm tire enough? a 31? And then as such, a good 47-57mm caliper brake would perform (likely better) than the canti's?

I guess then it comes down to whether or not the fender clearance exists..

[christian]

Loaded touring, I'd use a 35 at least.

Riding to work with 10-15 lbs, I'd use a 28.

[sg8357]

Where are you touring, how are getting the bike there ?
I started using 28mm tires, then went to 34mm tires.
The 28s weren't fun on cobblestones, slow on gravel
and really slow bouncing over tree roots. The Swiss have
a broad idea of what constitutes a bike path.

Tektro makes a 73mm reach brake that has a wide arch that will
clear a set of SKS fenders and GranBois 32mm tires easily.
The brake blocks were at the top of the slots, so they were
acting as x-wide arch 57mm reach brakes, braking was good
enough for Welsh hills.

[gdw]

Wow, I totally agree with you on the Stan's rims and Avid hydro's. I thought they hadn't made it to the master list. Bikepacking.net is like any forum, it has quite a few very experienced members and a few newbies with strong opinions but little experience. If you spend time there you'll learn who the players are.

I'm not a retrogrouch but there are a number of newer products with very sketchy records when it comes to reliability on multiday adventures.... Avid/Sram wet disks, Shimano XTR pedals, XT disk hubs. Some, like the new XT disks are great if you don't ride in the winter but too many riders have problems with them when the temperatures drop below freezing. 10 speed drivetrains wear very quickly in the backcountry if they don't see regular maintenance and some riders have had to replace their chains 3-4 times or roughly every 600-700 miles on the dirt roads of Tour Divide.

[christian]

Totally agreed. But with many things, I think one needs to make a rational asssesment of likelihood of failure vs enjoyment of usage.

When single-handing across the Atlantic, I'd choose a fat, sturdy boat that doesn't go well to weather; boats don't sink often, but the impact is substantial. On a paved bike tour in the developed world, the worst case scenario is a hitchhike, a bus ride, some inconvenience, and things fail pretty rarely... To that end, I'd pick parts first and foremost based on their working function and whether they'd make the ride more enjoyable.

To that end, do most bike-packers use coil forks? Air forks seem pretty issue-prone to me. Coil forks suck, but at least they suck consistently!

[gdw]

Most bikepackers use air forks on the rough rides like the Arizona and Colorado trails... probably because their bikes came with them or they weigh less than most coil forks. On the less technical trails like the Tour Divide quite a few riders are using rigid forks often carbon.

[AngryScientist]

if i were considering a bike as you are, with input on design, i'd go with the paul's in a heartbeat.

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/paulcompimg/products/racermedium_2_main.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

Modern stuff just doesn't break. If you buy good stuff, you basically don't have to worry about it any more. And BB7s are a really bleh option. I admit, it's sort of "crazy" but I actually think it's the preferred option if you want disk brakes.

Well, I owned a service oriented bike mshop that was VERY busy, because modern stuff does break, wear out, need service.

Hydro road/cross brakes aren't 'there' yet. For touring, mechanical discs are the best choice, IMHO.

[palincss]

And does he carry spare tires? If yes and no, I would think cutting/killing a tire would be an issue. Even here in the republic, nobody but one has 650b road tires, and he's closed all the time.

Back in the 1970s, tourists routinely carried spare tires (triple coiled wire bead) even though 27 x 1 1/4" was the tire of choice because, as it was said, "...every Western Auto in the United States had that size tire in stock." Today, it's much easier with Kevlar bead tires.

[palincss]

So.. I guess the question is, and perhaps not pertinent to my argument since i'm looking more at a rear rack for commuting and not real touring, is what do most people tour on? Is a 28mm tire enough? a 31? And then as such, a good 47-57mm caliper brake would perform (likely better) than the canti's?

I guess then it comes down to whether or not the fender clearance exists..

How much do "most people" weigh, and how much load do they carry? I don't think there's any kind of "standard" here: there are 100 lb tourists and 240 lb tourists, and there are people who tour with a 10 lb load and others who tour with a 50 lb load. How much the total load weighs has a lot of bearing on how wide a tire you need.

[raygunner]

I've been thinking big time about disc brakes on the new touring rig but what about just regular mechanical disc brakes for touring use??

[christian]

I have a pair of BB7s I'll send you for free. Just let me know.

[Bradford]

So.. I guess the question is, and perhaps not pertinent to my argument since i'm looking more at a rear rack for commuting and not real touring, is what do most people tour on? Is a 28mm tire enough? a 31? And then as such, a good 47-57mm caliper brake would perform (likely better) than the canti's?

I guess then it comes down to whether or not the fender clearance exists..

Around town, supported rides, and a light commuting load (laptop and clothes), 700 X 25 on my light wheels
Credit card touring (front panniers only), 700 X 32 on light wheels
Unpaved passes with a light day load, 700 X 32 on my heavy wheels
Unsupported touring: 700 X 37 on my heavy wheels

My IF Independence takes the 37s with plenty of room to spare. I have a Paul touring on the front and a Shimano v brake on the back. Someday I'll get around to putting a Paul touring on the back when I have some extra budget or find a cheap sliver one, but the V brake gets the job done.