Dt competition.. Oldie but a goodie

[Duende]

Just reverted my 32 spoke wheels back to 14/15/14 competitions from aerolites.

I got caught in the hype to create a sub 1500 gram wheelset. Heck, I had some naive notion that it was important to get my bike to weigh less than 17lbs too!

But the amount of lateral flex in my rear wheel with the lightweight spokes was extremely unnerving and freaking me out. What's worse, is it kind made me doubt the integrity of my wheels on decents.

Live and learn.

An 18 pound bike is just fine for this "not quite a Clyde"

[Pete Mckeon]

agree:banana: "Lightness has quite a few costs.

Integrity/Longevity for recreational riders is the highest costs besides $$ in my view over the years, THere have been some good stories over the past 20 years of things breaking but luckily no serious "HURTS" of friends.


THere were broken bars, seat rail, seat posts and wheel spokes - - -at an embarassing moment. funnies has been bars bending up because they were metal and drilled out and seats falling along the route and having too stand rest of ride .:confused:

[Mark McM]

You might want to consider the DT Aero Comp spokes. These spokes are have the same cross-sectional area as DT Competition spokes, but have a flattened shape for better aero dynamics.

Because they have the same cross-sectional areas, they will build a wheel with the same stiffness as DT Competition spokes. Due to their thinner shape, they will be more aero than DT Competition spokes, but not as aero as the even thinner DT Aerolites.

[FlashUNC]

As I told a buddy on our Saturday ride as we were discussing wheel builds -- I'll take durability and reliability over lightweight any day.

Last thing you want is to be stranded 20-30 miles from home and calling for The Boss and the sag wagon because some fancy stuff broke. She's not a fan of that.

[rice rocket]

Should've built w/ the CX-Rays to begin with. Similar profile, but the Sapims are said to have much less stretch (at the expense of being a little more difficult to build with).

[John H.]

What you say is true.
I was on my rain bike yesterday for 1st time in months- it has 32 hole 3x wheels.
They are way stiffer than my daily drivers- Hed Ardennes FR with 20 spoke front and 24 rear.
I am having Ergott build me up something in between- stiffer than the Ardennes but still light. And with DT hubs- I am not a fan of the Hed hubs.
For comparison I weigh less than 145 lb.

[Duende]

Switched out the spokes. And the rims for that matter. Had some Archetypes that were intended for a new build. But as they weighed in 35-40 grams heavier than the C2's. I figured it was best to go for the added robusto.

Really like this new build. No flex and I'm hitting potholes and everything the poor roads here throw at me.

I'm kind of gun shy of aero spokes now I have to say.

I'm used to riding in the foothills of Tucson Az. But here in the Bay Area where I live now, there's a lot of cross winds by the ocean. And I have to say, there were a few times the wind caught my front wheel in a way I've never felt before.

Maybe the same will happen with my regular non-aero spokes too. Only time will tell. It was surprising though.

I'm sure I'll be itching to try some of these recommendations soon enough.

Thank guys!

[Mark McM]

Should've built w/ the CX-Rays to begin with. Similar profile, but the Sapims are said to have much less stretch (at the expense of being a little more difficult to build with).

That's a bit of a contradiction - flexiness is what makes a spoke difficult to build with, so it can't be less stretchy and more difficult to build with.

Spokes have two types of flex that matter - longitudinal and torsional: Longitudinal flex (stiffness along the axis of the spoke) affects wheel stiffness; torsional flex affects how much the spokes twist when adjusting the nipples, and therefore affects the ease of building.

Since all steel alloys have the same elastic modulus, the longitudinal stiffness of a spoke is affected only by its length and cross sectional area. Sapim CX-ay, Sapim X-Ray, DT Aerolite, and DT Revolution spokes all have very similar cross-sectional areas, so all of them will build equally stiff (or flexy) wheels.

Torsional stiffness is affected by cross-sectional shape as well as cross-sectional area and length, and ovalized or flattened shape is less torsionally stiff than a round shape, so ovalized aero spokes will have more torsional flex than a round spoke of the same cross-sectional area. Sapim CX-ray and DT Aerolite aero spokes will be more torsionally flexible than round spokes, so they will twist more when turning the nipples, making building a little trickier.

[bfd]

Switched out the spokes. And the rims for that matter. Had some Archetypes that were intended for a new build. But as they weighed in 35-40 grams heavier than the C2's. I figured it was best to go for the added robusto.

Really like this new build. No flex and I'm hitting potholes and everything the poor roads here throw at me.

I'm kind of gun shy of aero spokes now I have to say.

I'm used to riding in the foothills of Tucson Az. But here in the Bay Area where I live now, there's a lot of cross winds by the ocean. And I have to say, there were a few times the wind caught my front wheel in a way I've never felt before.

Maybe the same will happen with my regular non-aero spokes too. Only time will tell. It was surprising though.

I'm sure I'll be itching to try some of these recommendations soon enough.

Thank guys!

Len, my local wheelbuilder, recently retired. Before he did, I had him build me one last rear wheel. I had a 32h Chorus silver rear hub in my box and since I'm a heavy guy, 195lbs (and dropping!), I decided to have him build it up using a Mavic Open Pro rim. I'm the guy in our group that breaks rear rims (e.g., cracks around rear nipples and occasional broken spokes), so a durable rear wheel is a must! When I was talking with Len, I jokingly said one last rear wheel using "light spokes!" I normally have him use 14/15/14 (2.0mm/1.8mm/2.0mm) DT db spokes, but he agreed to use lighter spokes and this time I had him use 15/16/15 (1.8mm/1.6mm/1.8mm) DT spokes with aluminum alloy nipples.

Wow, he did a great job! The wheel is light, at least for one with 32 spokes, tight, stiff and very durable. I've been jamming up and down the hills with the boys and so far, no problem! Probably his best wheelbuilding job and I'm completely satisfied.

I know all the other guys in the group laugh at me for running "old-school" 32h spoke wheels as they all ride the latest in 18/20/24h boutique wheels including a couple of guys on tubeless! But, I have no problem staying with them and know that my wheels are probably more durable as they hold up to my weight! Good Luck! :eek::banana::butt::hello:

[rice rocket]

That's a bit of a contradiction - flexiness is what makes a spoke difficult to build with, so it can't be less stretchy and more difficult to build with.
<snip>
Since all steel alloys have the same elastic modulus


I'm not a pro wheelbuilder (I have two sets under my belt), so I'm only parroting back what I've heard from more experienced builders. But from what I imagine, Sapim has a more aggressive heat treatment schedule that makes the spoke more brittle, but gives it higher ultimate strength. The complaints have been about spoke breakage, not excess elongation or windup.