SRAM, why the bad rap?

[Tony]

When I first started looking for a cross bike I turned down some deals because the bikes came with SRAM components. I did this due to hearing from several good folks here that SRAM is somewhat substandard to Shimano and Campy. I decided to just get the bike I wanted and down the road I'll upgrade to Shimano. I've been riding my cross bike with force drs and apex shifters almost everyday since I got the bike, half the the time on dirt trails. Seems like everything works nicely, I like the shifters.
My question, why the bad rap by some very experienced and knowledgeable folks here? Is it that the components don't last as long/not made as well?

[gavingould]

the shifters don't generally handle crashes (even soft ones) too well. though i've been riding the stuff for about 4 years without much issue.

[oldpotatoe]

When I first started looking for a cross bike I turned down some deals because the bikes came with SRAM components. I did this due to hearing from several good folks here that SRAM is somewhat substandard to Shimano and Campy. I decided to just get the bike I wanted and down the road I'll upgrade to Shimano. I've been riding my cross bike with force drs and apex shifters almost everyday since I got the bike, half the the time on dirt trails. Seems like everything works nicely, I like the shifters.
My question, why the bad rap by some very experienced and knowledgeable folks here? Is it that the components don't last as long/not made as well?

My experience is lack of long term reliability. Shifters, rear ders., BB and Rder bearings, chainrings.... Plus a long term fder issue, now 'fixed' but still not on par with others, IMHO.

I think they are more concerned about weight and cost and being first than designing then producing good, really good, gear. I think the wet disc fiasco is an example.

Again in my experience as a shop owner and IMHO. I just think there are better choices out there, road, cross, MTB.

[CiclistiCliff]

Look at their recall/warranty replacement history from the last 4 years and you'll see why.

Also, clunky shifting is clunky. Chains that wear quickly and front derailleurs that deflect like crazy. And finally, I find it absurd that a company has to incorporate a chain keeper into their top of the line front derailleur in 2014.

[FlashUNC]

As others have mentioned, they seem to covet light weight and price above all else.

I remember when they first introduced their one-piece cassette a couple years back, which proceeded to break a bunch, and when it didn't break, caused the drive train to be really, really loud. The solution? Stuff rubber bits in the cassette to try to quiet it down. Even now it's easy to tell who in a group who's riding SRAM and who isn't just by sound.

Just anecdotally, I've seen busted shifters and derailleurs at a far higher rate than either Campy or Shimano, and this is just among the regular weekend groups I ride with. Once saw two Force rear shifters blow on the same Thursday night ride.

At some point, you stop chalking up some of this stuff to bad luck.

[nooneline]

Since a ton of people, including many pro teams, were putting chain keepers on bikes <em>anyway</em>, I thought the incorporated chainkeeper was a nice touch. I've ridden properly-adjusted SRAM, Shimano, and Campy, and have never seen a drivetrain that I can't manage to throw a chain on at some point. Hard doubleshifting at frantic moments on bumps will do that...

SRAM's stuff isn't as refined as Shimano or Campy, but I think there are still plenty of reasons for some or many to choose it.

[EDS]

As others have mentioned, they seem to covet light weight and price above all else.

I remember when they first introduced their one-piece cassette a couple years back, which proceeded to break a bunch, and when it didn't break, caused the drive train to be really, really loud. The solution? Stuff rubber bits in the cassette to try to quiet it down. Even now it's easy to tell who in a group who's riding SRAM and who isn't just by sound.

Just anecdotally, I've seen busted shifters and derailleurs at a far higher rate than either Campy or Shimano, and this is just among the regular weekend groups I ride with. Once saw two Force rear shifters blow on the same Thursday night ride.

At some point, you stop chalking up some of this stuff to bad luck.

Doesn't Campy use the same rubber bits in their cassettes?

[R2D2]

Doesn't Campy use the same rubber bits in their cassettes?

I've never seen any rubber bits in Campagnolo cassettes.

[professerr]

Slight tangent, but related to OPs question: some builders and shops seem to push SRAM pretty hard -- are the margins better on this stuff than other stuff?

[FlashUNC]

Doesn't Campy use the same rubber bits in their cassettes?

Campy uses plastic spacers and I know at least the first three cogs of the Chorus cassette are riveted together.

But nothing like SRAM's solution to drive-train noise (http://www.theroaddiaries.com/2012/08/21/inside-the-sram-xg-1090-cassette/).

[gospastic]

I have one of those OG-1090 cassettes with at least 12,000 miles on it, and it's still going strong. Install a new chain, no skipping. Might be a little loud but it lasts forever.

[JLP]

"Stealth Ring Elastomers."

Keep it classy, branding professionals.

[Vinci]

I think that people like what they like, and some people are more vocal about why you should also like what they like than others.

I've ridden various models/generations of Shimano, Sram, and Suntour over the years, and they all work within a margin of their competitors. I think a lot of the love or hate comes down to preferences.

Personally, I don't like Shimano's ergonomics, so I don't ride their gear anymore. I do like Sram's, so I mostly ride theirs. I would probably like Campy's ergonomics, but I don't like the idea of having to buy specific chainrings/cables/chains/cassettes/wheels for it, so I don't.

Ride whatever you like. If someone tells you that it's crap, they had better be able to outride you on whatever they say is better.

[Steve in SLO]

Personally, I don't like Shimano's ergonomics, so I don't ride their gear anymore. I do like Sram's, so I mostly ride theirs. I would probably like Campy's ergonomics, but I don't like the idea of having to buy specific chainrings/cables/chains/cassettes/wheels for it, so I don't.

FYI, with Campy you don't need to buy specific cables and chains, and with 11 speed, you can use 11 speed Shimano/SRAM wheels and cassettes with it.

[pdmtong]

Generally the road rap against SRAM is in two areas
1) clacky noisey shifting
2) general and long term reliability
As mentioned...they are the ww kings....look at most sub-15 builds. they will all have tubulars and most have Red.
The SRAM force on my CX works fine. I dont love it. I dont hate it. I do prefer the fixed lever of SRAM over shimano for road. I have ridden all three shimano campy and sram...I could be fine and get used to any of them. (although I chose campy in the end)

On the mtb side, my feelings against sram are much stronger. SRAM is pretty flakey. the shifting and discs dont come close to shimano, and the suspension doesnt come close to Fox.
They must be giving great OEM pricing to specialized etc. to get their product out into the market.
Even at age 12 my daughter had a preference for shimano over sram when she could finally fit on a size XS 26" mtb..

[Mnm1945]

I used it all. As far as long term reliability I find the Campagnolo is the best. I also like the ergometrics. I would put Shimano Dura Ace a close second. I have founs the Sram to be the least relaible as far as long term use and Durability. As far as cost goes, Campy is the most expensive and Sram is the least expensive.

[pinoymamba]

i love the way sram shifts and feels in my hands. my 2011 red was rock solid last year. I upgraded to 2012 red and fell in love all over again. my shifters survived a pretty bad crash at the end of last year as well.

I feel their motto is "ride, race, and replace"

[redir]

I had a mix of X7 and X9 on my last MTB and I liked it better then the Shimano I have on my new one. But as for road I remember when they first came to market a lot of my teammates jumped on the SRAM chain only to find out years later while I was still racing hard on DA-9 they were replacing SRAM bits all over the place.

Growing pains perhaps.

[jtakeda]

I had a silver sram rival group 1st gen maybe?

I had a lot of front derailleur issues. Also there were a lot of long term reliability issues with the rear der and left shifter.

I went campy and never looked back.

[bcroslin]

I've ridden SRAM Red for years and recently switched Shimano and the difference really is night and day. The shifting is crisper, the drivetrain is quieter and the front derailleur works. I also found that if a derailleur goes bad you can just throw the whole thing away because SRAM doesn't sell any small parts. It's 50/50 with the shifters.

I don't have the kind of hate for SRAM that some people do but I just feel like Shimano works better. I've only ridden Campy a few times and didn't fall in love with it but with that said the people I know who ride Campy are religious in their devotion to the brand so that's saying something.

[crankles]

Generally the road rap against SRAM is in two areas
1) clacky noisey shifting
2) general and long term reliability
The SRAM force on my CX works fine.

On the mtb side, my feelings against sram are much stronger. SRAM is pretty flakey. the shifting and discs dont come close to shimano, and the suspension doesnt come close to Fox.


I'm with pdmtong on much of this... I've ridden/raced all three. I've raced CX with a sram force group for the last few years and It's help up admirably...especially for the price...and I've been able to rebuild a crashed lever twice; can't do that easily with the other vendors. But as mentioned above, the shifter housing isn't as crash proof as Shimano. And as far as shifter ergonomics, at least in race situations, I prefer Sram slightly over shimano and Way more than campy.

as for MTB.... shimano is bomb proof with far superior brakes. Sram...meh.

[nooneline]

i've seen a lot of shifter bodies break, but i've also seen a lot of riders tighten them down too hard on the bars.

i was taught that they should be tightened firm enough to not move when you grab and twist them, but lose enough that in a crash they'll be knocked in ward rather than broken.

that approach has (presumably) saved my shifters in countless cx tumbles and one or two hard crashes on the road!

[azrider]

All these responses talking about "reliability".....can those who don't think it's reliable give time frame of what they consider "good longevity"? Not trying to start anything but just curious.

I'm still rolling the same RED group I bought back in 2011 so I'm pretty stoked (knock on wood)

[oldpotatoe]

Doesn't Campy use the same rubber bits in their cassettes?

Ahh, no.

For right above, I warrantied about 2 DOZEN levers in the first 2 years it was out. AND on complete bikes, bought elsewhere since some of those dealers either wouldn't warranty them( your fault, they don't break!) or they said they had to send the whole bike back......huh?

I never sold a SRAM road bike. Since mine started as frames, I wasn't under some production manager's thumb.

Had a x9 MTB on the floor but next to a XT one, shimano XT worked a lot better, Fox light years better than Rockshox

[vqdriver]

may be referring to that random yellowish orangish rubberesque spacer in the older centaur cassettes. i never did figure out why that one was there along with all the other aluminum ones....

[gdw]

I don't know about their road components but judging from the feedback you'll get from the folks who ride and race multiday offroad events like the Tour Divide, Colorado and Arizona Trail, Trans North Georgia, etc Sram offers some pretty dependable mtb components. Their gripshifters have been topnotch since the original 8 speed Attack/Plasmas, Sram chains last as long as any manufacturer's, Rockshox Rebas need less maintenance and the seals last longer than Fox's best, and Avid BB7's are the most reliable all weather disk brake design on the market. BB7's are so easy to setup and maintain that a monkey could handle the task.... and the basic design hasn't changed since it's introduction in 15 years ago. Can anyone name a current brake design with a similar history?

[Lewis Moon]

As others have said: cheap, reliable and light weight. Pick two.

[ERGOPOWER]

As long as Campagnolo exists, there really is no reason to choose anything else.

[FlashUNC]

All these responses talking about "reliability".....can those who don't think it's reliable give time frame of what they consider "good longevity"? Not trying to start anything but just curious.

I'm still rolling the same RED group I bought back in 2011 so I'm pretty stoked (knock on wood)

There's always going to be the odd break here and there -- nothing is fool proof -- but to me the plethora of early Shimano STI stuff and early Campy Ergopower stuff that's out there is a good measuring stick.

This stuff should last longer than a model year, in other words.

[azrider]

As long as Campagnolo exists, there really is no reason to choose anything else.

Oy.....:rolleyes:

[therealpeel]

As long as Campagnolo exists, there really is no reason to choose anything else.

Unless your wallet says otherwise...

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

[nooneline]

As long as Campagnolo exists, there really is no reason to choose anything else.

Checks price of cassettes.
"Hmmmm."
Buys SRAM.

[Joachim]

As long as Campagnolo exists, there really is no reason to choose anything else.

Shimano is better than Campy. Why overpay for nostalgia.

[oldpotatoe]

Shimano is better than Campy. Why overpay for nostalgia.

Rhetorical question, why indeed, cuz one can. Why be part of the 'herd'.

[EDS]

I think the best part of SRAM getting into the road component game is that it brought ergonomics to the forefront and forced Shimano and Campy to completely redesign their shifters to allow for better ergonomics.

On a personal level SRAM is the only one of the three that I can easily operate when suffering from inflamation and pain due to arthritis in my left wrist.

[vqdriver]

i've had problems with all three. i don't race, so none of those problems caused me more than inconvenience.

my personal experience with any warranty claims/replacements have been quite diverse, and i'd have to say that sram has been the best to deal with when problems do arise.

[COYO1]

This
I used it all. As far as long term reliability I find the Campagnolo is the best. I also like the ergometrics. I would put Shimano Dura Ace a close second. I have founs the Sram to be the least relaible as far as long term use and Durability. As far as cost goes, Campy is the most expensive and Sram is the least expensive.

Plus I would add that my MTB wears SRAM. I beat the snot out of that bike. It's a 2011 and I have replaced the chain, chainrings, rear cassette, rear derailleur, and bottom bracket all around the 2 year mark (~16 months of riding 1-3x/wk). Sram just wears out faster.

[Joachim]

Rhetorical question, why indeed, cuz one can. Why be part of the 'herd'.

I didn't think you would fall for that one....:)

[oldpotatoe]

I didn't think you would fall for that one....:)

Ya kidding? This is one of my favorite threads, right after tubulars rather than tubeless.

[Joachim]

Ya kidding? This is one of my favorite threads, right after tubulars rather than tubeless.

Oh no, I fell right back into it. :)

[Bkat]

Shimano is better than Campy. Why overpay for nostalgia.

Because we're cyclists.

[jtakeda]

Checks price of cassettes.
"Hmmmm."
Buys SRAM.

Considering I buy almost everything used, campy is the best.

It doesn't wear out super easily and is rebuildable.

Warranty is out the door, I couldn't afford shim sram or campy new so I go for the one that will wear the best.

[Monthly Payment]

I like Sram. The clicks on each shift has a real nice positive feel. Its like flicking a light switch that gives you a little resistance as opposed to a sloppy, loose light switch. That loosey goosey feeling is what Shimano 7800 felt like to me. That was enough to give Sram a shot when they first came out since I didn't have to swap wheels too to make it work like I would have had to with Campy. I like that clicky feeling.

As far as durability goes, I've been pretty lucky with my 1st gen Force and Red stuff holding up pretty well for 6 and 7 years respectively.

[Louis]

Rhetorical question, why indeed, cuz one can. Why be part of the 'herd'.

Around here the herd influence is what leads people to Campy.

[bikinchris]

Campy pays their workers a living wage. From a ethical point of view, they have that and they make a good product.
SRAM is a US based company. From a nationalistic viewpoint, they have a home field. If they made more parts here, they would be far stronger.
Shimano is the evil empire. Easy to hate. They make good stuff, but they are still...the evil empire.
From an engineering view point. Campy has always been the best engineered as far as a quiet reliable drivetrain. They have had some flops, but not many.
Shimano has never made a single new idea in cycling. Slant parallelogram, Index shifting, STI etc. were all done by someone else first and Shimano either waited until the patent ran out or just plan bought it.
SRAM is the new guy. An outsider as far as roadies are concerned. Unlike MTB riders, they usually don't like new stuff and they don't let new guys into the club.
All of them break in a hard crash if they are too tight.
As far as my experience, when I worked in a busy shop, I have replaced TONS of broken STI levers. I have rebuilt TONS of Campy Ergopower levers. Most of which should have been recalled IMO, because those springs just break way too often. In fact, I have a box full of all the spare parts I can get. I am sure some people have replaced Double Tap levers, but I haven't. That being said, I don't work in a busy shop anymore. I have a one guy shop.
I have SRAM on my bikes now.

[thirdgenbird]

As far as my experience, when I worked in a busy shop, I have replaced TONS of broken STI levers. I have rebuilt TONS of Campy Ergopower levers. Most of which should have been recalled IMO, because those springs just break way too often. In fact, I have a box full of all the spare parts I can get. I am sure some people have replaced Double Tap levers, but I haven't.

Your experience contradicts every other one I have seen from a mechanic.

[Rekalcitrant]

My personal experience: I bought a new Force right shifter (running 1x10) and other SRAM bits and pieces last summer for my cross bike and was initially very impressed and singing the praises of SRAM. But after a season of admittedly mucky cross races the shifting is unfixably crappy. And this is in spite of methodical cleaning of everything, new cables, etc. I asked my LBS and they said what others have said here: that's just what to expect with SRAM. Next year I'll switch to campy or shimano. My previous ultegra group took a ridiculous beating before the shifting crapped out. My experience with campy is unfortunately limited; I use it on my road bike, but it doesn't see much abuse.

[bikinchris]

Your experience contradicts every other one I have seen from a mechanic.

I think that's fair to say. I haven't worked in every shop across the USA by a longshot.
The low point of STI was 8 speed Ultegra.

[10-4]

Your experience contradicts every other one I have seen from a mechanic.

^This.

I've literally had to warranty SRAM DoubeTap shifters more than 10:1 to every other shifter combined.

[jtakeda]

^This.

I've literally had to warranty SRAM DoubeTap shifters more than 10:1 to every other shifter combined.

I began to doubt myself after reading bikinchris' response . My sram rival shifters got a "dead" feeling after about 4 months of heavy use.

[cmg]

Considering I buy almost everything used, campy is the best.

It doesn't wear out super easily and is rebuildable.

Warranty is out the door, I couldn't afford shim sram or campy new so I go for the one that will wear the best.

ding, ding, ding the winner ! yep. always like the tucked cable under bar tape look. been a fan since 9 speed.

[jemoryl]

Checks price of cassettes.
"Hmmmm."
Buys SRAM.

Go to Ribble and check the price of a Veloce/Centaur cassette (I still ride 10 spd). What's the problem? You shouldn't be using a Record cassette unless your pro team is buying them for you.

[Louis]

You shouldn't be using a Record cassette unless your pro team is buying them for you.

I think folks figure even if they can't be as fast as the Euro-pros, at least they can use the same gear.

[merlincustom1]

All these responses talking about "reliability".....can those who don't think it's reliable give time frame of what they consider "good longevity"? Not trying to start anything but just curious.

In 15 years with Record I've rebuilt the right ergolever twice and the left once for a g spring, and replaced a freehub body pawl spring once.

[Tony]

My wheelset arrived today, Hed Ardennes LT. Using the brake levers (Rivals, not Apex as posted ) multiple times to get the cantilever brakes to fit correctly on the 23 mm wide rims I noticed that the left shifter brake lever was very loose, able to more 3/8" side to side.
These are only one month old shifters. https://plus.google.com/photos/107709068384636814318/albums/5972232059781544289

Called Competitive cyclists and they are sending new shifters. They offered to pay any LBS to install the new shifters. Really happy with their customer service!

[carlucci1106]

I have no experience with SRAM road components other than a test ride on a Specialized for giggles once. Shimano and Campy just do the job for road IMO.

I have had excellent longevity with SRAM MTB parts however. I have a set of ESP 9.0 twisters that still work well after 15 years of pretty frequent riding. I paired those with a used ESP SL second gen RD from someone on the forum and it works like buttah with new cables. Run an XTR/XT almost everything else, however.

I have new X0 twisters on my bike with an ANCIENT ESP 9.0SL RD 1st gen! Again, XT Cassette, Race Face Cranks. Works pretty well, but I think the older stuff was more precise.

FWIW

[frankiefrijoles]

although i may agree upon the actual quality of the SRAM systems, i find many more "young" riders undoubtedly wanting SRAM. i constantly am biting my tongue at the amount of people who have no idea what they are talking about. i think it may be the "sounds" that these sram systems are making, the "snap" of the ever so precise Force group that some kid has to have. i find myself tuning and tuning and tuning but the noises never goes away

/rant

[FritzWhite]

That's always the top complaint I've heard about SRAM is that it's noisy. I heard that when SRAM Red first came out the hot thing for pros to do was run Shimano chain, chainrings, and cassette with SRAM shifter/derailleur for a quieter drivetrain. Hard to sneak up on anyone when the bike's noisy.

[oldpotatoe]

Around here the herd influence is what leads people to Campy.

Maybe but shimano is over 10 times the size of Campagnolo. Campagnolo can't even spell OEM. Like buying a toyota or seiko instead of an audi or Rolex.

[oldpotatoe]

Your experience contradicts every other one I have seen from a mechanic.

Which part? I think you mean about sram stuff. I also have warrantied or replaced a bunch of sti but also a bunch of sram shifters. I have overhauled ERGO since 1992. Yep, those shift springs and spring carriers.....but a OVH of a ERGO lever takes 15 minutes.

I would rather walk than have anything sram.

I think some sram company dudes lurk here..they hear this stuff from industry guys all the time. I have heard this type of thing from reps from a VERY BIG bike part distributor and also distributors of complete bikes..who for 2013, made their line-up all shimano, few Campagnolo, no sram, after 2012.

I think 2 pro teams when offered sram, chose to buy shimano...as a component designer, but not really controlling their production, just looking for $ saved and lightest weight, I don't think sram really cares.

Not being in the shop anymore, I won't be getting 'that call' from the big guy at sram anymore..hope he doesn't have my home phone..he can email anytime tho.

But ya know, components are expendables..spend your $ on the frame/fork/wheels/saddle.

[laupsi]

SRAM is the new guy.

I could be wrong but thought I read, from a great piece in "Rouleur" a few issues back, that SRAM is actually spun from a rather old Euro lineage. Anyone confirm?

[thirdgenbird]

Which part? I think you mean about sram stuff

Yes.

I could be wrong but thought I read, from a great piece in "Rouleur" a few issues back, that SRAM is actually spun from a rather old Euro lineage. Anyone confirm?

They bought Sachs.

[benb]

SRAM went through a fad.. IIRC I read yesterday there were 11 ProTour teams on SRAM in 2011 and for 2014 there are only 3, and two of the ProTour teams are paying full price for Shimano gear, i.e. not all the Shimano teams are actually sponsored by Shimano.

I think weather conditions and # of bikes owned is going to play a huge factor in riders anecdotal evidence, shop warranty claims are more reliable.

I got all of 18 months out of the SRAM road groupset I tried riding in new england. It lasted maybe 6000 miles and just about everything was toast. Shifters were jamming, and the "rebuild" never happened as SRAM never had the parts available. Rear derailleur kept sucking the chain up, it was amazing I never snapped the derailleur off or broke the chain. Went through 2 front deraiullers in that time. Had to take the chainrings off every couple hundred miles, clean, regrease, and retorque them to keep it from making noise. The BB, brakes and ergonomics were the high points for me. I definitely prefered the SRAM shifter shape to Shimano. (I have large hands) I replaced my SRAM stuff with used Ultegra 6600.. I have no idea how used it was when I bought it (shifters were scratched) but I got 6 years out of that stuff in the same weather before I destroyed the shifters in a roof/rack garage accident. 5+ years seems to be what I expect out of Shimano.

That said I have had SRAM X.0 on my MTB since 2006 and nothing has broken, although I have run Shimano front deraiullers the whole time. IMO the SRAM rear derailleur design is/was superior for my bike (Giant NRS) as I had a lot more "ghost shifting" when the rear suspension moved when I had Shimano on it. The lower cable tension of SRAMs design resulted in more reliable operation as the suspension cycled.

One of my big beefs is SRAM clearly seems to cheap out on fasteners. They also thread directly into aluminum. I kept having slipping front derailleur cables on my road bike.. even on Rival they were weight weenie to the point they thought it was smart to thread into aluminum. After a few cable changes you could never get the bolt tight. Same thing with my X.0 rear derailleur. It's great you can disassemble the cage for cleaning but it has aluminum 2mm allen bolts or something and they stripped out no matter how careful I was so I stopped disassembling it.

I have had pretty bad luck with Rock Shox rear shocks on my MTB too..

[Germany_chris]

I like Sram on the mountain bike..

[dana_e]

I like the strong click, seems to work fine.

No issues, D

[Mark McM]

I could be wrong but thought I read, from a great piece in "Rouleur" a few issues back, that SRAM is actually spun from a rather old Euro lineage. Anyone confirm?

True. Despite the perception that Campagnolo is for 'traditionalists', in reality, Campagnolo is the 'new guy on the block'.

As noted, SRAM bought Sachs, and SRAM's road groups were originally developed from the Sachs road groups. Sachs started making bicycle hubs in 1895, and freewheels in 1897.

The Shimano company started in 1921, and their first product was a bicycle freewheel.

Tulio Campagnolo invented the quick release in 1927, but he didn't start his company to manufacture it until 1933.


And now the editorial: If SRAM has been in the bicycle component business for nearly 120 years, how come they still can't get them right?

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Around here the herd influence is what leads people to Campy.

Me thinks people using Campy were using it before they came here. I've been using it (road/CX) since '02. That's 8 years before coming here. I use Shimano on the MTBs. The stuff just works, imo and ime.

[dana_e]

I would get Chorus 11 speed

[laupsi]

True. Despite the perception that Campagnolo is for 'traditionalists', in reality, Campagnolo is the 'new guy on the block'.

As noted, SRAM bought Sachs, and SRAM's road groups were originally developed from the Sachs road groups. Sachs started making bicycle hubs in 1895, and freewheels in 1897.

The Shimano company started in 1921, and their first product was a bicycle freewheel.

Tulio Campagnolo invented the quick release in 1927, but he didn't start his company to manufacture it until 1933.


And now the editorial: If SRAM has been in the bicycle component business for nearly 120 years, how come they still can't get them right?

agreed and thanks for the information; quite interesting if you think about it!

[EvanTA]

From my understanding, the full line of SRAM road components have not been around for much longer than 10 or so years. I'm seeing a lot of bad reviews of SRAM parts here, but is there also a sense that SRAM has been improving its product and starting to do a better job of balancing weight and cost savings with reliability and performance?

I just upgraded my road bike after many years on shimano 9-speed, which did work surprisingly well over the years and in 10+ years of riding and racing, never had shifter failure, but I went ahead and gave the new SRAM 11-speed a shot on the new bike. The early reviews are saying that the front shifting is improved, the obnoxious sounds are gone, shifting feel is better, and it's still the lightest group for the money (Force, that is). I'm still putting it together, but it will be thoroughly tested over the next few months as I race road and cross, so can comment for myself then. Until I form my own opinion, are there are folks out there who've tracked the evolution of SRAM road and would say "yes, they are headed in the direction of finding that right balance," or would you say that their improvements have been marginal at best.

[bikinchris]

They bought Sachs.

Who in turn bought Sedisport.

[Mark McM]

Who in turn bought Sedisport.

... and others. Over the years, Sachs bought many bike component companies, including Maillard (hubs and freewheels) and Huret (derailleurs). Oh, and the chain company was Sedis - the Sedisport chain was just one of their products.

[LesMiner]

I had a rather bizarre component problem that came to a head last Summer. I have an older steel frame bike that came with 10 speed Campy Chorus. I like the ride of steel and the fits me good. Sometimes the shifting was not always what I wanted it to be. Over time it got worse. One symptom was the inability to pedal backwards even on a repair stand. The chain would jam up the RD. A a local LBS said the derailuer cage had a problem. I put on new RD, cassette, and chain. Finally last Summer I was on vacation doing group rides. I started having shifting problems much worse. Being away from home I went to a nearby LBS. They fooled around with it and said it was the wheel not properly aligned to the hub. OK so I found another LBS to take a look and they said the derailuer hanger was bent. So I asked them to check the alignment. Alignment was good they concluded that the rear triangle was bent. Thankfully they did not try to adjust the hanger. I get back home and start back with the Campy RD alignment directions to see I if I can adjust it for better shifting. Better but just OK. I went to another LBS where the manager is pretty good with repair. I tell him to replace the RD cable housing because it looks a bit old. Also try to adjust the shifting. I call him the next day to check on the repair. He says he had one of his guys replace the housing. They put a cable housing on a little longer than the old one. He then went to adjust for shifting. He found no need to adjust and pedaling backwards was not an issue. He told me I did the RD adjustment right becuase he could see no need to adjust it. No problem shifting or back pedaling. So given that experience, does it mean Campy is bad becuase of the shifting issues and 3 LBS's can't adjust or fix? Or bad mechanics? I put the old RD and cassette back on and shifting is better than ever. My conclusion is the housing was the root cause. Varyed experience with different brand components may be more than just the component quality.

[vqdriver]

I like the strong click, seems to work fine.

No issues, D

on sram we call it "loud"
on campy we call it "crisp"

[bart998]

I have been riding Sram Red for 3 years now on one bike. I have Campy Record on the others. The Sram is fine and works great since I got the finicky f/der sorted out. But I much prefer the Campy for the fine tuning ability in the shifting. It's just a better system. Better also than the Shimano bikes I've set up for friends.....IMO.

[deluxerider]

I've got a lot of hard miles on my sram components. Road, mtb, and CX. No problems at all. My beef is that I feel they duped their customers when they released the new Red 10 speed gruppo and then a year later released the 11 speed gruppo. I would have preferred to wait a year for the 11. I feel like I'm the butt of a big joke. Sucka! I don't know if I'll continue on when it comes upgrade time.

[sixgears]

I almost jumped on the SRAM bandwagon and may still do so in the near future but after all the fiasco regarding reliability, I'm having second thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I like the lower pricing that they're known for but if I have to replace components more often than if I went with Shimano or Campy from the get-go, I feel like I'm throwing money away by attempting to save a few pennies. Just my $0.02.

[oldpotatoe]

I had a rather bizarre component problem that came to a head last Summer. I have an older steel frame bike that came with 10 speed Campy Chorus. I like the ride of steel and the fits me good. Sometimes the shifting was not always what I wanted it to be. Over time it got worse. One symptom was the inability to pedal backwards even on a repair stand. The chain would jam up the RD. A a local LBS said the derailuer cage had a problem. I put on new RD, cassette, and chain. Finally last Summer I was on vacation doing group rides. I started having shifting problems much worse. Being away from home I went to a nearby LBS. They fooled around with it and said it was the wheel not properly aligned to the hub. OK so I found another LBS to take a look and they said the derailuer hanger was bent. So I asked them to check the alignment. Alignment was good they concluded that the rear triangle was bent. Thankfully they did not try to adjust the hanger. I get back home and start back with the Campy RD alignment directions to see I if I can adjust it for better shifting. Better but just OK. I went to another LBS where the manager is pretty good with repair. I tell him to replace the RD cable housing because it looks a bit old. Also try to adjust the shifting. I call him the next day to check on the repair. He says he had one of his guys replace the housing. They put a cable housing on a little longer than the old one. He then went to adjust for shifting. He found no need to adjust and pedaling backwards was not an issue. He told me I did the RD adjustment right becuase he could see no need to adjust it. No problem shifting or back pedaling. So given that experience, does it mean Campy is bad becuase of the shifting issues and 3 LBS's can't adjust or fix? Or bad mechanics? I put the old RD and cassette back on and shifting is better than ever. My conclusion is the housing was the root cause. Varyed experience with different brand components may be more than just the component quality.

This..most bike shop wrenches are pretty clueless in general and think Campagnolo is like a black art or something. With a little basic training, like what does a derailleur do and how, they could figure it out most are glorified bike builders.

[fuzzalow]

This..most bike shop wrenches are pretty clueless in general and think Campagnolo is like a black art or something. With a little basic training, like what does a derailleur do and how, they could figure it out most are glorified bike assemblers.

Fixed it for you.

[oldpotatoe]

Fixed it for you.

Grazie..yeah, what I meant.

[sitzmark]

My experience with SRAM has been pretty horrendous. I built out two frames in 2010 with SRAM Force groups and picked up a third group for backup or another frame.

The maintenance has been painful - annual chain/cassette changes and cleaning the chain/cassette with an alcohol wipe after every ride and relube. Replaced the pulley wheels with Black Box ceramics, but didn't see any magic performance enhancement - go figure. Swapped chainrings a time or two.

I get chain rub when I cross-chain small/small and big/big - no problem with adjacent cogs, but just can't take it to the extremes without some noise. Moved one group to a new frame last year - same thing.

Only have 18,000 +/- miles total on the groups so far. Just bought a new frame to add to next year's stable, but based on all the issues so far I may not build out with the remaining Force group.

[beeatnik]

Anyway, I'm sure SRAM is great for the Pros, cats who know how to ride bikes. But do any hard group ride and keep your ears open, every horrible mis-shift will come from a SRAM equipped bike. Trust.

That said, the graphics are cool, the prices are OK and if you're the type of guy who lubes a chain once a year, it's probably the group for you. Looks over substance.

Oh, anecdote about the crap quality. A few years ago I had a Force lever break while my mechanic was making an adjustment, ON THE STAND. ya, try that with campag or shimano.

[Fivethumbs]

Back when SRAM first came out with their group they were really pushing it with their "Make the leap." campaign. I bought the first generation Rival group. Before I even had 200 miles on it they came out with the 2nd generation that fixed the issues with the first generation, i.e. front derailleur trim and throw and lever shape. It bothered me because I felt like a Beta tester for the company. It would have been nice if they offered a trade in at a reduced price. In essence I felt like a made the leap and regretted it. Also I was never able to get rid of noise at the rear derailleur when in the smallest cog. I bought Shimano 5700, which performed much better than the SRAM. I won't own SRAM again.

[bikinchris]

I've got a lot of hard miles on my sram components. Road, mtb, and CX. No problems at all. My beef is that I feel they duped their customers when they released the new Red 10 speed gruppo and then a year later released the 11 speed gruppo. I would have preferred to wait a year for the 11. I feel like I'm the butt of a big joke. Sucka! I don't know if I'll continue on when it comes upgrade time.

In the other hand, I had two recent customers who chose 10 speed over 11. They didn't feel the need for another cog.