OT: In praise of American-made...

[Louis]

... footwear.

A while back I decided to buy US-made shoes if at all possible. So far my purchases have been a pair of Danner Mtn Light boots and a pair of Rancourt Ranger Mocs. There was a significant cost premium, but I couldn't be happier and consider it money well spent.

The quality has been top-notch and both are super-comfortable. (The Rancourts are amazing - like a pair of gloves for my feet.) I've decided that from now on (with the exception of cycling shoes, where Sidis fit too well to go elsewhere) I'll do my utmost to go with "Made in USA" footwear.

What's in your "Made in USA" shopping cart?

Rancourt link (http://www.rancourtandcompany.com/home)

Danner link (http://www.danner.com/)

http://www.haberdashernyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Rancourt-Olive-Ranger-Moc.jpg

http://uncrate.com/p/2009/04/danner-mountain-light-ii-boots.jpg

[Camelstache]

LL Bean Maine Hunting boots

[ik2280]

Those Mountain Lights are really sharp. Might have to pick up a pair.

[AngryScientist]

well, there are of course my Serottas and my geekhouse...

aside from that, i swear by red wings boots, since i spend a lot of time in boots. i just picked up a pair of the heritage beckmans, and they are really sweet.

http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/wp-content/uploads/blogger/_tc2OkhJhc-Y/TNmOm6lwFFI/AAAAAAAABMU/QPLCw7iVNrI/s1600/red-wing-shoes-beckman-5069-3688_zoom.jpg

[Cat3roadracer]

Moots, Chris King, HandleBra, PBR.

Sorry - foot ware- LL Bean hunting boots. I have a good pair to wear to work. And a second pair for yard work.

[Ken Robb]

Alan Edmonds shoes. Oh yeah, Alden shoes as well.
They are costly to buy but last a looooong time and can be renewed at the factories to be like new for very reasonable prices.

[Bkat]

Red Wing Iron Rangers. Made in Minnesota.

[FlashUNC]

Cane Creek 110 headsets. Better than Chris King imo.

DeFeet gloves, socks and overshoes.

Really solid stuff.

[fuzzalow]

Footwear made in USA?

Danner - have a pair of Mountain Light Lownsdale which admittedly are urban lifestyle boots rather than hardcore. But Danner offers that type of boot as part of their range also. These boots can be recrafted in having new soles put on by Danner when the time comes.

Quoddy - moccasin type of oxford which can also be recrafted by Quoddy.

Alden - wearing them for about 30 years - no longer as needed for daily wear with the decline of the 5-day-a-week suit & tie uniform for office attire. Recraftable by Alden also, especially as their shell cordovan shoes are something worth hanging on to.

I have Sorel boots too but they don't count as their being a Canadian company which AFAIK no longer manufacture any of their boots in North America. Timberland shoes & Puma sneakers, all made where ever - pick any 3rd world sovereignty. Onitsuka Tigers might still be made in Japan.

These makers cover all I need as far as shoes.

[Peter B]

<snip>

aside from that, i swear by red wings boots, since i spend a lot of time in boots. i just picked up a pair of the heritage beckmans, and they are really sweet.

http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/wp-content/uploads/blogger/_tc2OkhJhc-Y/TNmOm6lwFFI/AAAAAAAABMU/QPLCw7iVNrI/s1600/red-wing-shoes-beckman-5069-3688_zoom.jpg

Two years of daily wear on these RedWings and going strong.

When these finally wear out I'll probably measure up for a pair of Russells.

[rwsaunders]

LL Bean Maine Hunting boots

I just had my 25 year old Maine Hunting boots resoled last October...nice stuff.

[zzy]

I swear by my AE Longbranch boots. Perfect casual everyday boots and strong enough for hiking. Just a pain to clean if you get them really muddy.

[Ahneida Ride]

HB wrap .... made in USA.

Keeps Americans employed ... :banana:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88602804/HB.jpg

[Camelstache]

I just had my 25 year old Maine Hunting boots resoled last October...nice stuff.

Awesome! Been wearing them all day myself.

[Scuzzer]

In 1983 I bought my first real pair of hiking boots from Danner, basically identical to the Mtn Light Timber but I think they were just called Mtn Light. I was shocked to see it would take $330 to replace them but luckily there's no way I'll ever kill that pair of boots. I think I paid $125 for them at a time when my job only paid $2.50 an hour. They were worth every penny.

[Idris Icabod]

I made a similar decision a few months ago. So far:

1UP bike rack and Curt trailer hitch (amazing).

Santa Cruz alloy Tallboy frame with Thomson bar and stem, King hubs and Enve bar (Thomson carbon bar isn't US made).

My wife spent hours trying to find a pre-lit artificial Christmas tree that is made in the US but that is impossible. Bought a US made one that wasn't lit.

Toys for the kids are hard to source but we are trying to increase the % of US sourced plastic cr@p.

[aaronf]

Lucchese boots for me.

[charliedid]

Like many here...I've worn LL Bean boots for over 30 years and Red Wings for 25.

Love me some Sorels, but sadly they were sold to Columbia and they are nothing like they used to be.

I got basically 2 winters out of my last pair. We used to buy them at the grocery store in Colo. in the mid 80's and they would last a good 10 years.

[Scuzzer]

Love me some Sorels

I bought a closeout pair of Sorels from REI in the mid 90s that are my go to winter riding boots. I rode (partially) across Alaska in them a few times all the way down to -35 and they were absolutely perfect. I'd love to purchase another pair but they don't make them anymore.

[GScot]

I have been wearing a pair of Heritage Red Wings for a year of shop duty and they are great. After Christmas I supplemented them with a pair Wolverine 1000 Mile boots. The Wolverines are amazing and I expect to buy more.

[gomango]

I live in Minnesota, so that means Red Wings.

Engineers were my motorcycle boot of choice for years and I still have some 2990s.

Two years ago I got lucky at a garage sale by our house and noticed a Red Wing box on a garage shelf.

In it were a pair of Ice Cutters, brand new that the owner had received as a gift.

Didn't fit him, but they sure fit me. :)

[rounder]

Buy America other than bike stuff -

L.L. Bean - Been in business for over 100 years. Babe Ruth and Ted Williams used to shop there. Their business model is used as a reference point in best practices.

http://www.llbean.com/?mkwid=seL0qKwuG_dc&pcrid=35246701617&pkw=llbean&pmt=e&qs=3085166_google&pcd=JAN10

and C.F. Martin. They have been doing it longer then any other American company in making guitars. The D-28 is the standard for many. Sound and play great. Still family owned and run.

http://www.martinguitar.com/

[Ken Robb]

I've been a customer of L.L. Bean for 50 years and they still sell nice stuff but------the Maine Guide Shoes and variants may be the only shoes they sell that are still made in the USA. Their ads used to feature photos of New England guys hand-stitching their loafers and other shoes but I think that is all in the past.

[pbarry]

Speaking of work boots, White's Boots are the real deal. Stock and custom models, just like our favorite bikes.

http://www.whitesboots.com/

[Louis]

Speaking of work boots, White's Boots are the real deal. Stock and custom models, just like our favorite bikes.

http://www.whitesboots.com/

I see that they're in Spokane - Dave T should be all over that.

[MattTuck]

I believe this may have been posted before on this forum.... George's Handmade Boots (http://www.wimp.com/handmadeshoes/)

[pbarry]

Louis, you've reminded me that I need to watch Sometimes a Great Notion again. If you've ever run a chainsaw, this is a must-see.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067774/

More U.S. boots..

WESCO:

http://www.wescoboots.com/wesco/home.asp

Gokey: [Owned by Orvis now, but, AFAIK, high end still made here]

http://www.orvis.com/gokey-shoes-and-boots

[Louis]

Louis, you've reminded me that I need to watch Sometimes a Great Notion again. If you've ever run a chainsaw, this is a must-see.

Interesting - thanks for the link.

[pbarry]

Read the novel before watching. Kesey's best.

[bfd]

Kucharik merino wool leg and arm warmers, made in Gardena, CA, simply the best!

[PacNW2Ford]

Keen Portland safety toe boots, made in Portland

[foon]

Speaking of work boots, White's Boots are the real deal. Stock and custom models, just like our favorite bikes.

http://www.whitesboots.com/

Seriously, my white boots are wonderful. The craftsmanship is top notch.

[victoryfactory]

If you like wait lists you can look into Limmer.
They should be ready in time to pick up your Sachs!

[m_sasso]

Leather, watches and bicycles!
http://www.shinola.com/#shinola=XUiJzDvXj4O

[Bkat]

Here's a good list of American made products (http://www.acontinuouslean.com/the-american-list/), including footwear and bicycle stuff!

[oldpotatoe]

Leather, watches and bicycles!
http://www.shinola.com/#shinola=XUiJzDvXj4O

The bikes are assembled in the US, frames made by Waterford, but all of the other 'Stuff' on them is, alas, from Asia.

[OtayBW]

lucchese boots for me.
+10.

[MattTuck]

While I'm all for American Made products, I think that there is a pretty big dichotomy in what that can mean.

On the one hand you have products like those sold by LL Bean, that are produced in quantities that allow enough volume for the producer to still make money with a reasonable margin. Also, it helps that many of those producers have atleast a portion of their business as 'direct to consumer'. In some cases, to cut costs manufacturers have 'deskilled' the production processes, in other words simplify the tasks so that a less skilled worker can be inserted into the production process and still do the job. The consequence, and some would argue the purpose, is that workers are paid less, as you can get people out of high school and only require limited training. If however, you have a production process that requires 'craftsmen' -- people with lots of skill and experience, that is a different issue. I know that a while back Allen Edmunds was having trouble finding people that were interested in a career making shoes. They even went to local vocational high-schools offering to set up a program that would basically act as a feeder into their company... training skilled craftsmen. As I understand it, the schools were not interested. This was years ago, and I have to imagine they have much the same problem today. I also read an article several years ago about Swiss watch companies worrying about their future in America. As old watchmakers (maintenance and repair of mechanical watches) aged and left the industry, there were no young watchmakers to replace them. This was an existential threat to their business, as few people would be willing to shell out thousands (tens of thousands) of Dollars for mechanical watches if no one was around to fix them. They actually went out and started several watch schools to train people in that skill/career.

I went to a local glass maker this past weekend, Simon Pearce... some may know them. I was talking with a glass blower while I was there. He was talking about how the job was a contradiction in some ways. He said that the company generally attracts 'artistic' type people, because it is making beautiful glass products... but in the actual job, there is no room for creativity. They get paid for how many pieces they make that pass the quality control, and they have pretty strict quality control and design requirements. In fact to get approved to make the wine glass he was working on at the time alone, he said he had been practicing as part of a 3 man team for 4 weeks. That is not exactly what keeps an artistic person satisfied with their job, and they end up losing quite a few of those folks with artistic tendencies, finding better success with those that can churn out the same piece over and over again during their shift.

On the other hand, you have products that are produced in a more bespoke fashion, in low quantities. I think there is a healthy and exciting industry of 'firms' like this in America, whether it is bike builders, a company like Brooklyn Cut or shoemakers like the one I posted earlier. The issue here is that the price that must be charged for these products is so high because there are few (if any) economies of scale, and there is no real 'volume' to speak of. So the margins have to be high to cover the cost of the business and provide a living to the proprietor.

I think the point of this post is to point out that the continued availability of "made in the US" products produced by 'craftsmen' has a lot to do with people responding to economic and social signals about whether learning a craft is a good choice for their future.

[Louis]

I think the point of this post is to point out that the continued availability of "made in the US" products produced by 'craftsmen' has a lot to do with people responding to economic and social signals about whether learning a craft is a good choice for their future.

Hey Matt - thanks for the thoughtful response.

In addition to the supply side that you discuss, on the demand side I think the interweb helps create a more informed customer base for those who care about stuff that's better than whatever the big-box store down the road happens to carry.

Without the web and sites like this one it's unlikely that I would ever have come to own the types of bikes I have or the shoes and boots I mentioned above.

[downtube]

I second Allen Edmonds Shoes. If you need to dress well and spend a lot of time on your feet, these are fantastic. They are also factory rebuildable which makes them even more desirable. Service has always been top notch.

http://www.allenedmonds.com

[bgcycles]

... footwear.

What's in your "Made in USA" shopping cart?

Check out Bruce Gordon Cycles - Our stuff is made in the UShttp://www.bgcycles.com/index.html

Also check out our Online Store where we offer many Made in US products.

Regards.
Bruce Gordon

[MattTuck]

In addition to the supply side that you discuss, on the demand side I think the interweb helps create a more informed customer base for those who care about stuff that's better than whatever the big-box store down the road happens to carry.

Without the web and sites like this one it's unlikely that I would ever have come to own the types of bikes I have or the shoes and boots I mentioned above.


That is a good point. I certainly would not have found Dave Kirk's house by accident while driving across the country. The 'net does provide both incredible reach for those souls trying to make a living doing that type of thing, and a great source of information for potential customers. That is a bit of a double edged sword though, as the number of potential customers grows, so does your competitive set... a local shoemaker in Portland (for instance) is not just competing with the big box store down the street, but also with another local shoemaker in Virginia for that customer that cares about getting something special.

[deechee]

Thanks!
I'm always amazed at how well dressed you all seem. The Danner boots looks great, I hope I can try some on in person. I had been dragging my feet to replace my winter/hiking boots but looking forward to trying these.

New Balance (http://www.newbalance.com/Made-in-the-USA/made_in_usa,default,pg.html) also has a line of made in USA shoes, I bought a pair and only noticed when I got home and the sneakers have "made in the USA" printed on random spots around the shoe.

[merlinmurph]

Bean boots - 2 pairs, one insulated, one not. Having gone to school in Maine, you have to have a pair of these things. The non-insulated pair has already been resoled once and I think I originally bought them in the late 80's.

Quick Bean boot story
I was skiing at St Anton Austria around March 2000. I was hanging out in a bar one night, a guy says to me "Man, you gotta be from New England with those boots you're wearing."
So, I guess they don't get too far out of New England...

Enjoy your ride,
Murph

[Kirk Pacenti]

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has bee posted already.
These look pretty good. I might even buy a pair...
http://www.roydenim.com/

[Bkat]

The 'net does provide both incredible reach for those souls trying to make a living doing that type of thing, and a great source of information for potential customers.

I agree with all who've been making similar points. The internet is a great resource for educating people about the value of craft which, hopefully, will help encourage more young people to consider taking up careers where you make things with your hands.

[fil]

1 pair each of:
bean boots
steger mukluks

2 pair:
allen edmonds

4 pair:
red wings(my hometown)

[jlwdm]

Bought two more pairs of Allen Edmonds shoes today.

Jeff

[Plum Hill]

I have a pair of Danner hiking boots that were purchased in Cherokee, N.C. on a Blue Ridge Parkway ride in 1999. They're still going strong 14 years later, and they're not shelf queens.

As someone who spent ten hours or more a day in work shoes, my Thorogood by Weinbrenner beat the heck out of any Red Wings I've owned.

On a larger scale, is this thread a feel good job on the one or two items you have that are American made, or is buying American made something you strive for every day?

[Bkat]

On a larger scale, is this thread a feel good job on the one or two items you have that are American made, or is buying American made something you strive for every day?

I'm wholly committed to buying American for any new purchase I make. It isn't always possible, but it usually is. And if it's costs more, than I just buy less. My wife's the same way. She was thrilled when I found dish clothes made in the USA. (She'd been looking for a year.)

It's the little things that bring joy to a marriage.

[mcgillicuddy_p]

Boots: Red Wing and Broken Homme

Bikes: Serotta and Dornbox

Jeans: Todd Shelton (with an Orion belt)

[Tandem Rider]

On a larger scale, is this thread a feel good job on the one or two items you have that are American made, or is buying American made something you strive for every day?

I am with Bkat on this one. I work with my hands/tools all day at least 5 days a week. I won't buy non USA tools and parts if there is one made here. I will wait and or pay more if I have to. I am the same way with everything else.

The bikes that I actually pay retail or close for are all USA made. Santana, Co-Motion, Trek, Teesdale, Martin, Paketa, Serotta. The house I built is almost 100% USA (some are Canadian) sourced materials.

We try to buy as much food as we can from within a short drive of here. Meat, eggs, and dairy is from local farmers, most produce is either homegrown or farmer's market. Freeze or can, it DOES taste better.

It costs a little more up front, but we are very conscious of waste so it ends up the same. We generate less than 1 kitchen can of garbage per week for a family of 4 with 2 teenagers.

[AngryScientist]

We generate less than 1 kitchen can of garbage per week for a family of 4 with 2 teenagers.

that is very impressive, and i would like to get somewhere near the same. good job!

[daker13]

I try to buy Made in the USA whenever I can. I wish I could find a good pair of Doc Martens-style Made in the UK British work shoes, though--if anyone has any ideas, drop me a line.

I'm psyched about Gustin, a SF-based clothing company that started out making jeans to sell in fancy department stores for $250-plus, then ran a Kickstarter campaign and now sell great jeans direct for around $80. (I might've heard about Gustin through Paceline or the Serotta forums, actually.) I've had three pairs of Levis LVC, and a year in, these Gustins are fantastic. They're tough as nails and they've worn in extraordinarily well. Gustin does micro-runs of Japanese denim, heavy 18 oz. denim, etc. Highly recommended for anyone interested in Made in the USA high quality denim. I think I get a credit if you use the link (apologies for the sleaze factor) and you get $5 off:

https://www.weargustin.com/invite_from/14583

[GScot]

I try to buy Made in the USA whenever I can. I wish I could find a good pair of Doc Martens-style Made in the UK British work shoes, though--if anyone has any ideas, drop me a line.

I'm psyched about Gustin, a SF-based clothing company that started out making jeans to sell in fancy department stores for $250-plus, then ran a Kickstarter campaign and now sell great jeans direct for around $80. (I might've heard about Gustin through Paceline or the Serotta forums, actually.) I've had three pairs of Levis LVC, and a year in, these Gustins are fantastic. They're tough as nails and they've worn in extraordinarily well. Gustin does micro-runs of Japanese denim, heavy 18 oz. denim, etc. Highly recommended for anyone interested in Made in the USA high quality denim. I think I get a credit if you use the link (apologies for the sleaze factor) and you get $5 off:

https://www.weargustin.com/invite_from/14583

I ended up with two pair of their jeans from the kickstarter. Agree on the quality and style being spot on.

[572cv]

Misc. notes...

Alden shoes are made in the US as well, MA if I remember right. Nice style, comfy and durable if you come across them.

I was -20°F here this morning. I have on my old LL Bean Felt Liners. They don't make that style any more, but still do make boots in Maine.

We try to buy local as well, food, wood, coffee (at least its roasted here).

If you do anything with stone, and have a hankering to have the most beautiful, purposeful hammer or other tool, you will drool over Trow and Holden, making tools in Barre, VT. If one is into clever, well designed tools, the ones illustrated here are fascinating. I have a set of feathers and wedges and hand drill. Yes, you can split rock by hand, though it is work. Anyway, site is highly recommended for tool junkies.

http://www.trowandholden.com


I'm involved with an old company that used to make everything here. Survival has meant designing, outsourcing production, and distribution/sales as the new model, but we still make some of our line in MA. I hope to bring back more someday.

denim, the fabric, was originally developed and woven in Nimes, France, by those clever french persons..... since it was from Nimes, it was "de Nimes" and english speakers ended up calling it denim. So, we are all wearing stylish french jeans, really. If you don't eat too many freedom fries, you can fit into the same pair for many years!

[Bkat]

I ended up with two pair of their jeans from the kickstarter. Agree on the quality and style being spot on.

Made in USA jeans are actually not too hard to find once you move beyond the ubiquitous Levi's that are now made overseas. Aside from the bigger fashion brands you see in department stores, there are a few companies that have been around a while and are geared more toward rancher's workwear, a few of a newer wave of small US denim brands that have led the pack and have been promoting US-made for a few years now, and then upstarts like the aforementioned just getting a foot into the market. Some even make a point to use US-milled denim from White Oak Mill (http://www.conedenim.com/white_oak.html) in Greensboro, North Carolina and a few go the extra yard and use US-made rivets. (Extra points for that!)

[fuzzalow]

@ 572cv: Interesting trivia on denim. As an ethnocentric American, of course I assumed it was purely the Yankee ingenuity of Levi Stauss that invented the fabric that would proliferate to clothe an entire planet. Thanks for adding to the conversation.

On Paceline it is easier to take a position in dealing with only American-made goods for two reasons:

This forum deals with leisure time activities rather than staples for living which opens up options to buy goods in specialty markets
This forums demographics are likely above average by virtue of Paceline's origin with a defunct luxury brand. This aspect attracted a readership amenable to luxury purchases which carries on in this forum to this day
Due to the cost of domestic production, the goods that can be bought as American-made are typically goods positioned at the higher-end but this need not always be the case. It might be helpful to expand the conversation to name the industry or the goods and their makers as those that source and manufacture domestically.

In the world of cycling, there is an established and growing custom builder and artisan crafted segment for the entire range of cycling goods. Too many to name but looking into the subforum here on Builder Spotlights (http://forums.thepaceline.net/forumdisplay.php?f=17) would be a good start.

The high-end audio industry has always had a large presence of American-made builders and manufacturing. For example my phono preamp is a Pass Labs Xono whose owner Nelson Pass has designed and manufactured hifi gear under various companies since the 1970's. American-made for the my preamp and amp, BAT and Ayre, respectively.

In musical instruments, Gibson and Fender have largely defined the guitar market since the early 1950's. Gibson Les Paul, SG & ES-3x5 and Fender Telecaster, Stratocaster & Precision Bass are the instruments of Rock. Excluding price-point instruments, all from both companies are still American-made. Same also true of Fender amps. CF Martin are one of the benchmarks in fine acoustic guitars. Just as in custom bike builders, there is a large independent builder base of amplifier builders and independent luthiers.

This thread started with footwear: Alden, Allen-Edmonds, Limmer, Russell, Quoddy. Many, many more...

Clothing as mentioned in jeans but also for anything else too. Denim specialty shops like Self Edge (http://www.selfedge.com/) or general clothing shops like Hickorees (http://www.hickorees.com/) carry as much American made clothing as the Euro stuff. Yes the prices are higher than the imported stuff sold at clearance prices - buying domestic will cost more money. Anyone reading this thread knows this already so please do not gripe.

All American-made and just the tip of the iceberg. A very valid truism was made earlier in this thread: the web makes all this possible to find these craftmen and these companies, all we have to do is to have heard of them in order to look for them and possibly buy from them. How easy is that? If buying and supporting domestic means anything to you, it is not much more effort to do rather than to talk about.

Finally, my brief POV and editorial: Try your best not to buy stuff from the shopping malls. The malls are a pastiche of illusions, seductions and mindless consumerism. The mall is to a consumer what the casino is to a gambler - sights, sounds, scents and stimulations to pull you in. There is nothing that can allow a business to make enough margin to pay the square/foot rent of a "luxury" mall other than selling overpriced, imported from 2nd world, flash and razzle dazzle junk.

We have a wealth of choices and it is not a burden to choose wisely.

[rnhood]

One more for the upper echelon list of America made products are the Chris Reeve (http://www.chrisreeve.com) knives. The Sebenza in particular is a knife which exudes a quality and craftsmanship so many other fine knives find elusive. A bit expensive, yes, but its truly a lifetime piece. In fact any of the CR models are....well, models of perfection.

[Bkat]

Due to the cost of domestic production, the goods that can be bought as American-made are typically goods positioned at the higher-end but this need not always be the case. It might be helpful to expand the conversation to name the industry or the goods and their makers as those that source and manufacture domestically.

Very true. There is a growing segment of domestically produced goods that are comparable in price to "cheap" imports. rnhood mentioned knives. Case (http://www.wrcase.com/index_en.php) makes all their knives in the US and they are surprisingly affordable. (I just bought a US-made pocket knife made by them for $23 and am quite pleased with the quality.) There's also a segment of older manufacturers that make workwear that have survived the outsourcing rush. For example, L.C. King in Tennessee (https://www.pointerbrand.com/index.php/jeans-men.html). All US-made and jeans starting at $50. You can't beat that at your local mega-mall. The list of goods goes on and on.

I look at it this way. US-made goods aren't "expensive." For the most part, they are priced fairly and you get what you pay for. Imported goods are inexpensive only because some poor person in the developing world is subsidizing our purchase and some big corporation's stockholders with their cheap labor. And that just doesn't seem fair or right.

[fuzzalow]

Very true. There is a growing segment of domestically produced goods that are comparable in price to "cheap" imports. rnhood mentioned knives. Case (http://www.wrcase.com/index_en.php) makes all their knives in the US and they are surprisingly affordable. (I just bought a US-made pocket knife made by them for $23 and am quite pleased with the quality.) There's also a segment of older manufacturers that make workwear that have survived the outsourcing rush. For example, L.C. King in Tennessee (https://www.pointerbrand.com/index.php/jeans-men.html). All US-made and jeans starting at $50. You can't beat that at your local mega-mall. The list of goods goes on and on.

I look at it this way. US-made goods aren't "expensive." For the most part, they are priced fairly and you get what you pay for. Imported goods are inexpensive only because some poor person in the developing world is subsidizing our purchase and some big corporation's stockholders with their cheap labor. And that just doesn't seem fair or right.

I am truly reluctant to chime in a superfluous post stating "+1" but I agree with you and it is welcome to hear that American-made manufactured goods are making inroads across all price-point segments of goods.

IMO, part of the challenge is bringing awareness that the mindset of the consumer has been co-opted by strategies that conflate self-indulgence and narcissism with the buying experience. This credo is crystallized in the mantra of "What I want, when I want it and how I want it" as a dehumanizing paean to mass market consumerism. That saying may work as a rationalization towards an IPO price but I don't wanna find myself standing on the wrong side of the players involved in that statement.

Sure, I own stock, just as every other person who has money invested in an IRA or 401(k) or any other retirement investment vehicle. And I profit, in stock growth and dividend, by exploitation and cost advantages across the global labor markets. And this is in no way apostolic in a desire to change the corporate modus operandi or make virtuous the world.

But there is a colossal pool of consumers out there and I choose for myself to make an attempt at being a conscientious consumer and doing my part, however minuscule it may be, to the bigger picture. Buying American-made products is just one way of expressing my confidence and belief that we are all in this together.

[veloduffer]

I tend to buy American-made products if there is a choice and generally find the quality and design better than outsourced goods (e.g. I just purchased a Tom Bihn (http://www.tombihn.com) briefcase made in Seattle).

What's harder to discern is when parts are made elsewhere but the goods are assembled here, like my new (but has not arrived) Subaru Outback. It does provide jobs to Americans (Outbacks are assembled in Indiana) but the parent is an overseas company (Fuji Heavy). On the other hand, American companies outsourcing production still create jobs (mostly corporate, white collar) here.

So is the American made for the benefit of just jobs or jobs & investment/profit? Hard to find instance where it benefits both.

[Bkat]

So is the American made for the benefit of just jobs or jobs & investment/profit? Hard to find instance where it benefits both.

Ideally, both. I don't like to generalize but I think you'll find far more examples of this with small businesses than large.

Cars can be quite confusing and in some ways, are a different animal that most consumer goods. Don't quote me, but if I recall correctly, a Jeep Liberty has more foreign parts in it than some foreign brands. It can make one's head spin.

Anyways, one needs to look at what sort of "jobs" are being supported and/or created. I know a lot of big corporations who outsource all their products to China juice their numbers and talk about all the domestic jobs they create, but they don't take into consideration that by outsourcing they're killing off higher paying manufacturing jobs and replacing them with low paying service ones.

So there's no easy solution. I guess a good rule is, if it's a US-based business that makes stuff domestically and they're small enough that the owner will take your call and answer your questions about their sourcing of materials, you're on the right track!

[Louis]

So there's no easy solution. I guess a good rule is, if it's a US-based business that makes stuff domestically and they're small enough that the owner will take your call and answer your questions about their sourcing of materials, you're on the right track!

I thought it was really neat that I could call Waterford and talk to Richard Schwinn and Marc Muller.

[veloduffer]

Ideally, both. I don't like to generalize but I think you'll find far more examples of this with small businesses than large.

Cars can be quite confusing and in some ways, are a different animal that most consumer goods. Don't quote me, but if I recall correctly, a Jeep Liberty has more foreign parts in it than some foreign brands. It can make one's head spin.


I remember a recent Wall St Journal article that showed that the Camry had more US made parts than the Ford Mustang, and the margin was significant IIRC.

Large volume products are more susceptible to outsourcing because the profit margins are thin and labor costs per unit adds up quickly.

But if you notice outsourcing occurs globally, even in China these days as they develop a middle class and their wages are more than those in Bangladesh and Laos. Capitalism is an efficient economic model but a poor social model.

[Ken Robb]

But if you notice outsourcing occurs globally, even in China these days as they develop a middle class and their wages are more than those in Bangladesh and Laos. Capitalism is an efficient economic model but a poor social model.

Is there a better social model that works in the long run?

[Louis]

A fully-functioning democracy (ie informed and engaged electorate)

[Ken Robb]

A fully-functioning democracy (ie informed and engaged electorate)

Is there an example of that in history?

[Louis]

There are quite a few countries who have significantly greater voter participation percentages than the US (without mandatory voting, which a few places have). Off the top of my head, I'd guess the Scandinavians.

[DRZRM]

I do try to buy my food locally, and I am a bit obsessive about shoes, I am a big supporter of Alden who produce here in MA. That said, my drive is to support manufacture that pays a living wage, here or abroad. I feel just as good buying British made Crockett & Jones (or even Edward Greens, but only once) knowing that I am supporting workers who are well trained and make a living wage. I don't want to touch off a union vs. right to work debate, but when possible I want to support manufacturing that supports its workers, wherever that might be.

[Louis]

That said, my drive is to support manufacture that pays a living wage, here or abroad.

True - given the choice between a Chinese sweatshop and an Eastern European sweatshop, I'll go with the Euros - I figure the workers' rights are probably better enforced there.

[fuzzalow]

As evidenced by the many threads on this forum that seek product information or advice, getting a review or user experience on anything bike or OT is easy to get. The Paceline brain trust here is pretty extensive.

Getting the added skinny about where a product is made and with which labor pool is just one more thing to consider. If possible, buy with that as one of the considerations; no need to get Taliban about it. The underlying motive is that the buying experience is not self-obsessed in that there isn't any concern or care about who gets thrown under the bus just so it was possible to get the best and greatest deal. That is why I consider that mode of crass consumerism to be dehumanizing. In fairness, becoming a crass consumer isn't what the public aspires to become. This behavior has been cultivated by the customer being encouraged to view products in the simple prism of price which obfuscates and distracts the customer from being a more educated consumer. WalMart is famous for this strategy.

I'll admit the motive for me is more tilted towards trying to support workers getting an honest, fair wage rather than a profit motive for the company that employs them. The reason I don't concern myself with profitability is that that is a lot of moving parts inside a company that I can't see and can't expect to have the vaguest influence over. I trust the profit motive interests inside with the management of the company to create the balance in their production resources that works for them.

And as mentioned, the greater degree of control a company has over its vertical component supply chain, the easier it can localize the benefits of keeping its production domestically held. Anything as complex as an automobile is going to be a global product because of the number of subsystems, parts and suppliers that go into manufacturing an automobile. Any run up in small costs all along that component supply chain makes the end cost to the consumer unattractive so the manufacturer has no choice but the take available cost advantages globally. However, this mode of operation is not the case for every product. For example jet plane turbofan engine manufacturing have little sensitivity to supplier pricing over component quality due to obvious reasons. But the sourcing of subcontractors for airline passenger seats is just like the car business.

Anyway, we vote with our dollars. We live in a global economy. Rome wasn't built in a day. We won't change the world overnight. And every big journey begins with a step.

[Bkat]

I do try to buy my food locally, and I am a bit obsessive about shoes, I am a big supporter of Alden who produce here in MA. That said, my drive is to support manufacture that pays a living wage, here or abroad.

I don't think there's one right answer to this question but it seems the baseline is that we seem to agree that it's important to give thought to any purchases we make. We all have our own individual standards (made in USA, fair labor, not made in China, high-quality fabrication, etc.) for what's #1 on the priority list, but as long as we have some sort of benchmarks to aim for, it means things are pointed in the right direction.

[Germany_chris]

While I like metal things make in the USA and If I were to buy work boots they'd probably be Red Wing but I find Danner boots to be uncomfortable and short lived. I started buy Lowa boots and will not by any others I wear them all day every day.

[cuwinbs]

this thread is killing my bank account :help: