Target Shoppers? OT

[Richard]

How many of you shop at Target?

The Target data breach is interesting to me because I never realized the reach of stores like Target (Walmart, any big box for that matter). But based on the numbers I have read, over 110 million customer's data was compromised after black Friday (Thursday?) through December. The entire US adult population (those over 18) is around 235 million or so.

Does that mean that in just that short time, somewhere in the neighborhood of 47% of the adult population used a credit/debit card in Target? That is incomprehensible to me.

[Netdewt]

Hmm, I hadn't thought about that.

So far I'm not too worried about it. We'll see what the investigation turns up.

[Vinci]

That may include multiple cards per customer, prepaid gift cards, etc. I doubt it was actually 110M unique people.

It was still a huge breach, though.

[Nebby]

How many of you shop at Target?

The Target data breach is interesting to me because I never realized the reach of stores like Target (Walmart, any big box for that matter). But based on the numbers I have read, over 110 million customer's data was compromised after black Friday (Thursday?) through December. The entire US adult population (those over 18) is around 235 million or so.

Does that mean that in just that short time, somewhere in the neighborhood of 47% of the adult population used a credit/debit card in Target? That is incomprehensible to me.

In short, 40 million credit card records were stolen, but a separate set of info affecting 70 million customers was also stolen.

Target has stated that the theft happened as part of the same breach, but is "separate from the payment card data previously disclosed.":

http://pressroom.target.com/news/target-provides-update-on-data-breach-and-financial-performance

[avalonracing]

In related news JC Penny, fearing a similar breach, has put in new safeguards to protect its 14 customers.

[AngryScientist]

as a data point, my wife and i shop at target quite often. there is a big store about 2 miles down the road from our house, and is where most of our household essentials come from, toilet paper, toothpaste, trash bags, etc.

the reality is that stores like, as we all know have driven most of the mom-and-pop stores out of business. even if you want to support local business, most of us are pretty limited on choices for where to buy certain stuff.

[druptight]

It sounds from another thing I read as though there might be quite a bit of overlap between the 2 groups (40 Mil and 70 Mil). But even at 80 or 90 million, you're still talking an extremely large chunk of the US population. I also am a target shopper for mainly household type items as mention above by AS, and certainly bought stuff there within this time window.

[mnoble485]

In related news JC Penny, fearing a similar breach, has put in new safeguards to protect its 14 customers.

I see what you did there. Post of the Day!! Very funny.

Mike

[sjbraun]

I hit the local Target for household items, maybe once a month. I did shop during the data breach. My credit union sent me a new debit card yesterday.

I've read that due to fewer consumer protections, it might be wise to limit debit card use. What do you folks think? I see the vulnerability, but at the same time I hate the idea of charging things like groceries or a post ride coffee.

[AngryScientist]

I hit the local Target for household items, maybe once a month. I did shop during the data breach. My credit union sent me a new debit card yesterday.

I've read that due to fewer consumer protections, it might be wise to limit debit card use. What do you folks think? I see the vulnerability, but at the same time I hate the idea of charging things like groceries or a post ride coffee.

i NEVER use my debit card for anything other than getting cash at my local bank. i charge everything, including coffee most mornings. i dont want a number linked directly to my bank account out there too often. AMEX has been doing a pretty good job of keeping me safe for years now, so no worries.

charging $$ is just a free one-month loan as long as you pay off the balance every month. that's definitely the way to go.

[Nebby]

I hit the local Target for household items, maybe once a month. I did shop during the data breach. My credit union sent me a new debit card yesterday.

I've read that due to fewer consumer protections, it might be wise to limit debit card use. What do you folks think? I see the vulnerability, but at the same time I hate the idea of charging things like groceries or a post ride coffee.

The dispute process can be significantly more annoying to deal with if a fraudulent charge happens on the debit card vs a credit card. Granted, a good bank takes a lot of the sting out, but it's still relatively more involved than calling up the credit card company and having them take care of it for you.

[IFRider]

I refuse to use a debit card. The consumer protection laws are far less favorable to the individual and banks know this. This is part of the reason for the push. Retailers also pay less for the transaction so they push debit also. I prefer to be diligent around paying off the credit card each month.

I hit the local Target for household items, maybe once a month. I did shop during the data breach. My credit union sent me a new debit card yesterday.

I've read that due to fewer consumer protections, it might be wise to limit debit card use. What do you folks think? I see the vulnerability, but at the same time I hate the idea of charging things like groceries or a post ride coffee.

[CNY rider]

I'm not sure how Target got their numbers.
My data point: We don't have a Target in the area. I don't think I have ever been inside of one.
We may have at some point bought something off their website. I really can't remember.

And I got an email from them 2 days ago saying my info could have been compromised, blah blah blah. Other than maybe buying something off the web I have no idea how that could be.

[4Rings6Stars]

i NEVER use my debit card for anything other than getting cash at my local bank. i charge everything, including coffee most mornings. i dont want a number linked directly to my bank account out there too often. AMEX has been doing a pretty good job of keeping me safe for years now, so no worries.

charging $$ is just a free one-month loan as long as you pay off the balance every month. that's definitely the way to go.

+1.

I earn rewards on my CC purchases. I earn interest on the money that stays in my bank account all month. My CC has better protection / easier resolution if something goes wrong...as long as you pay off the balance in its entirety every month and you have some level of self-control, it's a no-brainer.

I carry a small amount of cash for emergencies (mainly the Asian food truck down the road that doesn't accept cards), but 99% of my purchases are on my credit card.

[druptight]

+1.

I earn rewards on my CC purchases. I earn interest on the money that stays in my bank account all month. My CC has better protection / easier resolution if something goes wrong...as long as you pay off the balance in its entirety every month and you have some level of self-control, it's a no-brainer.

I carry a small amount of cash for emergencies (mainly the Asian food truck down the road that doesn't accept cards), but 99% of my purchases are on my credit card.

Same. I've averaged about $900 per year for the last 2 years using a cash back credit card for all my purchases and paying off in full each month. That cash back is TAX FREE under current tax law. Add that to the perks of protection buying with a CC vs. a debit card, and it's a no brainer.

[bobswire]

Phew, I thought this was going to be another gun thread.

[Gsinill]

That's most likely why you got the email.
Same here, haven't bought anything at a brick & mortar Target store in a long time but placed an order online; got the same email on Tuesday.
Otherwise, if you only shopped in the store, they probably wouldn't have had your email address to send you the breach note.

...Other than maybe buying something off the web I have no idea how that could be.

[93legendti]

target is more secure than FUBARcare.gov, but that's not saying much

[4Rings6Stars]

target is more secure than FUBARcare.gov, but that's not saying much

Is this necessary?

[AngryScientist]

I carry a small amount of cash for emergencies (mainly the Asian food truck down the road that doesn't accept cards),.

i hear that.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I now keep $20-30 cash in the glove compartment of both cars. Nothing angers me more than running to the grocery quickly for this or that and realizing, once I'm at the U-Scan machine, that I forgot my wallet. :mad:

[54ny77]

that was funny.

In related news JC Penny, fearing a similar breach, has put in new safeguards to protect its 14 customers.

[sjbraun]

Okay, so you've got me convinced to stop using my debit card for routine purchases. I still need a way to get cash, because the grocery store serves as my bank. I called Amex to see what charges I'd incur by getting cashback when I use my card. Whoa doggy, do they charge a lot for a cash advance, 3% or $5 plus 25% interest. That ain't happening.

Any ideas about this?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Any ideas about this?

An ATM machine? Continue to use your debit card at the grocery? No sense in making it an issue if it isn't one already.

[Bostic]

Same. I've averaged about $900 per year for the last 2 years using a cash back credit card for all my purchases and paying off in full each month. That cash back is TAX FREE under current tax law. Add that to the perks of protection buying with a CC vs. a debit card, and it's a no brainer.

+1.

I earn rewards on my CC purchases. I earn interest on the money that stays in my bank account all month. My CC has better protection / easier resolution if something goes wrong...as long as you pay off the balance in its entirety every month and you have some level of self-control, it's a no-brainer.

I carry a small amount of cash for emergencies (mainly the Asian food truck down the road that doesn't accept cards), but 99% of my purchases are on my credit card.

+3 for only using Credit Card. 99.99999% of what I purchase no matter where is with the cast rewards credit card. I also carry a small amount of cash on bike rides but that's about it. It's been ages since I've used the debit card at an ATM. The .000001 is for the Barber Shop every couple of weeks that takes cash only.

[summilux]

Non-Target shopper here. They just moved into Canada last year and they are pricey relative to other stores.

I use cc for everything. I used to feel embarrassed at putting something less than $5 on a cc, but no longer Every few years, some fraud-like transactions show up on my card, but it doesn't really bother me because I tell the company, they get rid of the charge immediately and I am good to go. I'd never use a debit card anywhere but at a proper ATM.

[witcombusa]

Just use CASH

[ColonelJLloyd]

I use my debit card more than my credit card. I guess I'm just ignorant to the risks. My bank is not going to hold me liable for unauthorized purchases; same as CC company. I get the advantage of earning rewards by using the CC, but I guess I don't see this big downside to debit cards.

[572cv]

No Targets in Vermont, and for whatever reason, they are not located near anything I travel to regularly. So, I am one of perhaps 14 Americans who have never set foot in a Target. (I saw that number 14 somewhere :))

I use a credit card 95% of the time, but the debit comes out for the local food coops, and for local stores I really favor, because I know it costs them less on the transaction.

[Richard]

Something to note for those who use debit cards: you must act quickly in order to avoid full liability for unauthorized charges when your card is lost or stolen.

Under the federal Electronic Fund Transfer Act, your liability is:

$0 if you report the loss or theft of the card immediately and the card has not been used,

up to $50 if you notify the bank within two business days after you realize the card is missing

up to $500 if you fail to notify the bank within two business days after you realize the card is missing, but do notify the bank within 60 days after your bank statement is mailed to you listing the unauthorized withdrawals, or

unlimited if you fail to notify the bank within 60 days after your bank statement is mailed to you listing the unauthorized withdrawals.
If you can convince the bank that your notification failure was due to extenuating circumstances, it must extend the notification timeline for a "reasonable period."

Unless your bank has different policies, this is you liability. With a credit card, you are limited to $50. Why I never use debits except for the ATM.

[Tom]

What cracks me up from the inside if IT is the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards and the requirements for up to date patching, strict auditable controls as to how code gets on devices and encryption or masking of card holder data - and somebody apparently had little trouble getting code on way out of date point of sale terminals that are simply Windows devices - not any kind of proprietary secure signed code.

[fourflys]

didn't read all the posts but I wonder if the 100 million is transactions and not separate customers… some customers might have 5 transactions in a week (have you seen all the minivans at Target at 1000 on a weekday??)

also, my wife received a new card from Alaska Air (BoA) just because she had used her card at a Target during that time period… even though her card wasn't compromised that we know of...

[rounder]

I am less worried about being hacked at Target than being hacked period. I was listening to the news today and heard that the sophisticated hackers do not try to focus on one retailer at a time, they try to hack on many. Target and Neiman-Marcus were both hacked. At least the incidents were reported.

My understanding is that if the Obamacare sites were to be hacked, the government would not have to report that.

[Louis]

NYT story about the Target hack: here. (http://nyti.ms/1cDyLhs)

[Climb01742]

NYT story about the Target hack: here. (http://nyti.ms/1cDyLhs)

An ironic tidbit from the Times article is...one of the first leads on who the hackers were came from a comment posted on, essentially, a hacker's online forum. Funny to think that there's a group like us, who instead of asking for tips on gluing tubulars, ask for tips on breaching firewalls and selling stolen CCs. Funny old world, ain't it?

[kidbill]

I have a Target Red card (debit). I don't think I got a notice from them via snail mail. Did it only affect the Red credit card holders?

[fourflys]

I have a Target Red card (debit). I don't think I got a notice from them via snail mail. Did it only affect the Red credit card holders?

as I said above, Bank of America (Alaska Air card) send us a new card "just in case" so I think it affected any credit cards… not sure on debit cards… might depend on who issues your card (whose is behind the Target part)