Campy 9 spd Mix? (Athena/Chorus/Record)

[Lugger]

I've seen a lot of posts on Paceline and other forums that have confused me about mixing campy components. As a newbie, I'm hoping that the Campy brain-trust can gently guide me in the right direction.

Situation: I picked up a nice Colnago steel frame from a fellow PL forum member (pic at end of thread) and would like to build it up with Campy parts that are relatively appropriate. I'm not talking about a collector grade rebuild. Just something that is more silver/alloy than carbon. I have a wheelset laying around that has a Campy Chorus 9pd Cassette, so that seems like a good place to start. I like the idea of not having to do a cold set on the frame to accommodate 10/11 spd. Oh, and did I mention I'm on a budget? Of course!

If I was going for an 11 spd build (accepting the cold set) the ideal would be Athena Alloy all the way (with the dream of finding alloy ultrashift levers). But beggars can't be choosers. And honestly, that's a bit out of my budget.

So.....rather than waiting for a perfect groupset to pop up, I'm wondering if I can build this up component by component. And if so, I'm wondering if I can mix and match Athena, Chorus and Record components (all 9 spd). I've seen comments that Athena and Chorus are interchangeable and so are Chorus and Record. But nothing on all three. Does the Transitive property apply in italian cycling technology? a=b and b=c means a=c? :confused:

Thanks!

[FlashUNC]

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: If the frame works with Campy 9 speed, it'll work with Campy 10 and 11 speed. No need to cold set or worry about spacing. It's all 130mm.

[nooneline]

There's one problem, and that is that there were two generations of 9-speed, and they are not cross-compatible. They both have the 9/10 hood shape, but they have different cable pull ratios. pre-2001 and post-2001.

There's a way to ID which shifters and rear derailleurs are from which era, but I've forgotten what they are.

[donevwil]

They both have the 9/10 hood shape, but they have different cable pull ratios. pre-2001 and post-2001.

There's a way to ID which shifters and rear derailleurs are from which era, but I've forgotten what they are.

I believe the hoods of the newer style have the Ergobrain button and the previous don't. At least that was true for Chorus/Record, don't know about the lower groups (Daytona, Veloce, Mirage).

[oldpotatoe]

I've seen a lot of posts on Paceline and other forums that have confused me about mixing campy components. As a newbie, I'm hoping that the Campy brain-trust can gently guide me in the right direction.

Situation: I picked up a nice Colnago steel frame from a fellow PL forum member (pic at end of thread) and would like to build it up with Campy parts that are relatively appropriate. I'm not talking about a collector grade rebuild. Just something that is more silver/alloy than carbon. I have a wheelset laying around that has a Campy Chorus 9pd Cassette, so that seems like a good place to start. I like the idea of not having to do a cold set on the frame to accommodate 10/11 spd. Oh, and did I mention I'm on a budget? Of course!

If I was going for an 11 spd build (accepting the cold set) the ideal would be Athena Alloy all the way (with the dream of finding alloy ultrashift levers). But beggars can't be choosers. And honestly, that's a bit out of my budget.

So.....rather than waiting for a perfect groupset to pop up, I'm wondering if I can build this up component by component. And if so, I'm wondering if I can mix and match Athena, Chorus and Record components (all 9 spd). I've seen comments that Athena and Chorus are interchangeable and so are Chorus and Record. But nothing on all three. Does the Transitive property apply in italian cycling technology? a=b and b=c means a=c? :confused:

Thanks!

9s/10s/11s all 130mm..no need to cold set.

9s Campagnolo stuff is all completely interchangable/inter-compatible..

9s last year was 1999, yep, only 4 years...1997/8/9/2000 lower groups...so the pre/post 2001 gig doesn't apply. In fact it's not an issue anyway.

PLUS if you can't find a '9s' anything, use 10s..ders...no mod necessary..I have even put 11s rear ders(Athena) onto 9 and 10s systems, works great.

[Saguaro]

Nice looking frame.

[Lugger]

Flash, thx for the clarification. I thought 9 spd is 126mm spacing. So I guess I'm doing a cold set no matter what. :( I can live with 9/10/11 spd, but I'm not such a purist that I want to go back to a 6/7 spd.

OP, thx for the clarifications on mixing and matching. That gives me lots of options, which means I'll be able to ride that bad boy sooner than later! :banana:

Now on to the Classifieds to find all the loose bits I need.

[nooneline]

9s Campagnolo stuff is all completely interchangable/inter-compatible..

I know you're a guru around these parts, but that ain't true. They made a minor change to the cable pull ratio and if your shifter and rear derailleur weren't paired, from the same era, they didn't work properly. Not theoretical - I've tried.

[FlashUNC]

Are you sure that frame is 126mm spaced in the rear?

It's either a 1 inch threadless fork or a 1 1/8, and from what I recall Colnago didn't make those in anything but 130mm rear spacing, especially since the fork matches the frame.

[LouDeeter]

I have also never run into an interchange issue between various 9 speed components. I've never heard of the different pull distances. That would imply that both the shifters and the cassettes were set for a different distance between cogs, since the rear derailleur doesn't really care what shifter is moving it. The distance moved is set in the shifter and the distance it needs to move is set by the cassette.

[thirdgenbird]

The derailler does care. Not all deraillers move the same distance given the same input. It's all a maner of pivot and cable anchor placement.

The rear derailleur and shifter index ring changed in 2001, not the cassette. I was told you could run a late RD with early shifters (slight over shift) reasonably well but not the other way (slight under shift)

I have not tried either. I do know an early 9 RD works perfectly with 8spd.

[nooneline]

I have also never run into an interchange issue between various 9 speed components. I've never heard of the different pull distances. That would imply that both the shifters and the cassettes were set for a different distance between cogs, since the rear derailleur doesn't really care what shifter is moving it. The distance moved is set in the shifter and the distance it needs to move is set by the cassette.

That's not true at all. A rear derailleur's construction absolutely determines how much cable pull gets translated to horizontal movement.

[nooneline]

from Branford Bike
http://branfordbike.com/articles/rear-derailleurs-pg62.htm

Campagnolo Pre-2001

In 2001 Campagnolo changed the geometry of their 9 speed rear derailleur. Current Campagnolo 9 or 10 speed rear derailleurs will NOT work with pre-2001 Ergo levers unless you upgrade the internal Ergo Index Gear to a current 9 speed model. If you do upgrade, you will be rewarded with quicker and more precise shifting. 2001 to current, 9 speed rear derailleurs, can easily be upgraded to 10 speed by simply replacing the 9 speed pulley wheels with 10 speed ones.

Pre-2001 nine speed rear derailleurs have a "B" adjusting screw located on the derailleur hanger tab next to the frame hanger mounting bolt. The "B" adjusting screw butts against your frame's rear dropout and allows you to adjust the angle of the derailleur body. 2001 to current 9 and 10 speed rear derailleurs have the "B" adjusting screw located at the junction of the derailleur body and pulley wheel cage.

[Lugger]

Are you sure that frame is 126mm spaced in the rear?

It's either a 1 inch threadless fork or a 1 1/8, and from what I recall Colnago didn't make those in anything but 130mm rear spacing, especially since the fork matches the frame.

FlashUNC, Very impressive ID from the photo. You're correct. Its a 130 dropout spacing. So a cold set is not necessary.

Thanks

[FlashUNC]

FlashUNC, Very impressive ID from the photo. You're correct. Its a 130 dropout spacing. So a cold set is not necessary.

Thanks

World's your oyster then. You can build it up with whatever modern components you want.

[oldpotatoe]

I know you're a guru around these parts, but that ain't true. They made a minor change to the cable pull ratio and if your shifter and rear derailleur weren't paired, from the same era, they didn't work properly. Not theoretical - I've tried.

Sorry, not in my experience. I used 1996 8s rear ders. With modern shifters(10s) and 2013 rear ders with 8s ergo and a lot in between. The only incompatibility is with early index stuff and that didn't work at all.

But got a 2002 10s shifter and 2000 new Rder? It'll work.

Branford has been in the sell ya something mode for years. I have used 2008 10s rear ders as replacement rders for ergo and DT shifters going all the way back to 1991/2. And they worked great. Sorry, my experience in the trenches says the 'Branford' documents are not accurate.

[oliver1850]

I have measured the cable pulled for both early and late 9 speed shifters. They differ by about .035" total as I recall. I ran a bike with late shifters and an early RD for a while and it does "work", meaning it can be adjusted so you can shift into every gear in both directions. I swapped the early RD out for a late one on my bike, and believe it shifts better as a result.

The way I would approach a C9 build is:

Buy the shifters you like/can find/get a great deal on, then buy the matching vintage RD. Values of the two styles don't differ by much, and neither is particularly hard to find. The only exception is possibly finding an uncracked early Chorus/Record, but the cracked ones are generally still functional. If you come across a super deal on the other style RD, snap it up. It will work until you find a great deal on the matching one. When that happens, sell the first for a profit.

[thirdgenbird]

That seems like a reasonable stance to me. You could also switch out the index ring to match the RD you found. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get one very cheap.. I've seen a number of them available from parted out a shifters or as leftovers from a 10spd conversion.

[AgilisMerlin]

nice frame btw

[bfd]

I have to echo what OP is saying - all Campy 9 works together! I have two bikes with 9 speed (I've never upgraded to 10 and may just go to 11 or 12 one day....but I digress). One uses 1999 Record 9 ergo levers with a 2010 Record 10 medium cage rear der. Shifts flawless with either my Campy rear wheel (Chorus rear hub, Veloce 9 cassette) OR Shimano rear wheel (DA 9 rear hub, Ultegra 9 cassette)!

On my second bike, I have a NOS/bought in 2008 Centaur 9 ergo levers with an early 1998/99 Campy Record 9 ti rear der using either of the above rear wheels and again, no problems.

So despite the fear of death and destruction if you somehow mix early and late Campy 9 equipment, it actually works quite well. Good Luck! :banana::butt::confused::eek: